Poland supports Israel in EU parliament

[shadowsrider]

Polish deputies to EU parliament protest against conference and debate about Palestinian rights and condemning Israel. The protest included politicians of all options.
Seems that in confirms that Poland is most pro-Israeli country in Europe.

Source: todays printed press: Gazeta and Dziennik

[Dispatcher]

Seems that in confirms that Poland is most pro-Israeli country in Europe.


Most pro-israeli country in Europe? Did someone actually print that in a newspaper? And was serious?

[Nightsky]

I doubt they're much about pro-Israel, rather playing along the lines of their American master, which in turns means supporting Israel.

However, I haven't heard about this conference at all.

[perdurabo]

I doubt they're much about pro-Israel, rather playing along the lines of their American master, which in turns means supporting Israel.

However, I haven't heard about this conference at all.
:roll: yes thats why last year in our capitol we had 1 bigger attack on a Jew (and it was just a robery), for same reason jewish council of europe said poland is safest country for jews in europe :roll:

[pacifist]

European parliament should concentrate on matters concerning Europe and not on jews and arabs.

[seraosha]

European parliament should concentrate on matters concerning Europe and not on jews and arabs.

Yea, that silly "Middle East" doesn't concern anyone at all, especially in Europe.:roll:

[Stormz_STA]

European parliament should concentrate on matters concerning Europe and not on jews and arabs.

x2

I'm sure there are more important issues for EU Parliament then debating who is right or wrong in the israeli/palestinian conflict.

[Telmar]

:roll: yes thats why last year in our capitol we had 1 bigger attack on a Jew (and it was just a robery), for same reason jewish council of europe said poland is safest country for jews in europe :roll:

There are not many Jews in Poland.

For those looking for info in English on the Polish MP boycott.

http://www.ejpress.org/article/news/eu-israel_affairs/19331

[pacifist]

Yea, that silly "Middle East" doesn't concern anyone at all, especially in Europe.:roll:

Nothing good comes from that region.

[Kaplanr]

Nothing good comes from that region.

Olives, Humus, oil, monotheism, Feta, labenah, falafel, Um Kultum, Bar Rafaeli.

[sp2c]

when is Poland going to start calling Hezbollah a terrorist organization?

[pacifist]

Olives

Greece has olives



oil

That polluting substance should´ve been replaced long ago with hydrogen and electricity.


monotheism
That is not good :bash:


Bar Rafaeli

You got me there. I stand corrected.

[futurepilot2004]

Nothing good comes from that region.

:roll: well this forum clearly benefits from your insight :roll:

[Conman]

This does bring up a point. Lets pretend 2 things happen (this is all theoretical)

1. Turkey is in the EU
2. A Palestinian State is created in the West Bank and/maybe Gaza Strip

Now Israel has a pretty dynamic economy and a thoroughly westernized mind set for the majority of the population. Would EU membership be that far fetched?

[AROUETLJ]

Hell yes it would, 'cos then we'd have to admit Australia and New Zealand as members. They've got dynamic economies and a westernized mindset too, no?

Really, gentlemen.....


And especially you Americans. After fifty years of EU you still haven't got it, have you?

[daily666]

when is Poland going to start calling Hezbollah a terrorist organization?

Isn't it a terrorist organisation? Does Poland call it otherwise or it doesn't call it at all?

[gilgoul]

Hell yes it would, 'cos then we'd have to admit Australia and New Zealand as members. They've got dynamic economies and a westernized mindset too, no?

Really, gentlemen.....


And especially you Americans. After fifty years of EU you still haven't got it, have you?

Beside Bibi, nobody want's EU membership in Israel, the economic advantage would out-weight the advantage of being independent.
To get back on topic, why should it irk so many people to have Poland be willing to balance a little the utterly anti-Israel bias of the EU parliament?
Should everyone be anti Israel there?
Does
the EU really think that it could get itself out of trouble by systematically being pro-Hamas?

[sp2c]

Isn't it a terrorist organisation? Does Poland call it otherwise or it doesn't call it at all?

yes it is and I don't really know what Poland calls it, it was somewhat of a joke that only worked in my head ;)

in any case the only european nations that recognize it as such is the Netherlands and the Uk afaik

my country is more pro israel then your country ... bwaha

[AROUETLJ]

The EU isn't "pro-Hamas". Let me try to give you the average European man on the street's opinion.

We look at the Middle East, and at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and all we see is endless fighting, with the situation, quite frankly, getting worse, since the prospect of peace is as distant as ever.

So we ask ourselves, "How does it help the situation if I condemn the democratically (well, they did hold elections) elected party as a "terrorist organisation"? And the answer, this side of the pond (the Mediterranean, in this case), is that it makes not one jot of difference.

So, to our Israeli friends, I say: chaps, don't rely on the EU to bail you out with meaningless declarations, because we've got enough problems of our own, huge problems. And please, stop saying we're anti-Israeli, because you won't get any sympathy if you keep repeating this line. We're just pro-European, that's all (those of us who are), trying to build this castle out of sand.

As for Israel's EU membership, I'm afraid they'd to change some of their most fundamental laws if they ever want to join, starting with the one about marriage between Jews and Gentiles.

[shadowsrider]

Funny thing is that (oh not AGAIN) Poland places itself against all European countries. It is already boring :)

[Player]

Beside Bibi, nobody want's EU membership in Israel, the economic advantage would out-weight the advantage of being independent.


X2 But is it beside Bibi and not Lieberman? I may be wrong though.

Anyways Israel can do on it's own good enough without becoming EU member, as well as economy and high HDI.

IMHO becoming EU member would be only worse for Israel, but the support from EU is welcome nevertheless.

Thank you Poland.

[oregongrunt]

Most pro-israeli country in Europe? Did someone actually print that in a newspaper? And was serious?
I thought Germany would be the most pro-Israeli these days after all the money they've paid out to it over the years.

[gilgoul]

The EU isn't "pro-Hamas". Let me try to give you the average European man on the street's opinion.

We look at the Middle East, and at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and all we see is endless fighting, with the situation, quite frankly, getting worse, since the prospect of peace is as distant as ever.

So we ask ourselves, "How does it help the situation if I condemn the democratically (well, they did hold elections) elected party as a "terrorist organisation"? And the answer, this side of the pond (the Mediterranean, in this case), is that it makes not one jot of difference.

So, to our Israeli friends, I say: chaps, don't rely on the EU to bail you out with meaningless declarations, because we've got enough problems of our own, huge problems. And please, stop saying we're anti-Israeli, because you won't get any sympathy if you keep repeating this line. We're just pro-European, that's all (those of us who are), trying to build this castle out of sand.

As for Israel's EU membership, I'm afraid they'd to change some of their most fundamental laws if they ever want to join, starting with the one about marriage between Jews and Gentiles.


Believe me, If I had one wish about EU, is that it would mind it's own business, but it doesn't, and it comes and plays a lot in my own backyard.
If it does serve your interrest, well, it's "de bonne guerre", but please, don't come and serve us any morality in the picture.
About Poland, It has chosen it's stand, good for them.
I personally appreciate their position, because they present an alternative to the sempiternal negative description of Israel, and the call by some assholes to "listen to the palestinian people", even thought Hamas.
I won't go into a debate about their legitimacy, and will not serve you the "well, Hitler was democratically elected too", but I find disturbing to see many "liberals" supporting a fascist group.
All in all, serve your interest, I personally think you should.

[shadowsrider]

Poland since 1989 is very pro Jewish. There are high schools where Hebrew is taught and also great Jewish culture festivals are taking place for more than 10 years alredy. 1 week festival is right now going to take place in Krakow and Warsaw. I guess this is because of strong cultural connection and Jewish contribution into Polish culture before WW2.
Also Polish MiG-29s are repeatedly visiting Israel - it was even presented for close examination as well as air combat training are taking place.
Also cooperation in military industry.

[shadowsrider]

BTW I guess those MiG-29s visits to Israel are classified. But there were some pics available in press of MiGs over Israeli desert. Also on Polish military forum there was a pilot who confirmed such visits but given no details except that "we are strong!" ;)

[AROUETLJ]

Believe me, If I had one wish about EU, is that it would mind it's own business, but it doesn't, and it comes and plays a lot in my own backyard.
If it does serve your interrest, well, it's "de bonne guerre", but please, don't come and serve us any morality in the picture.

Well, it's not my fault that the EU comes and plays in your backyard. Honestly. I wish they'd cut funding to the Palestinian Authority, since it serves absolutely no purpose, and I'm paying for it, like a wanker, through my taxes. And I wish they'd get out of the ridiculous "Middle East Quartet", which has absolutely no chance of achieving anything. And I wish we'd stop worrying about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, since it's not our problem.

[daily666]

Well, it's not my fault that the EU comes and plays in your backyard. Honestly. I wish they'd cut funding to the Palestinian Authority, since it serves absolutely no purpose, and I'm paying for it, like a wanker, through my taxes. And I wish they'd get out of the ridiculous "Middle East Quartet", which has absolutely no chance of achieving anything. And I wish we'd stop worrying about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, since it's not our problem.

Nazis annexing Czech Republic and than invading Poland wasn't European or US problem too. Hear no evil, see no evil.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

So, to our Israeli friends, I say: chaps, don't rely on the EU to bail you out with meaningless declarations, because we've got enough problems of our own, huge problems. And please, stop saying we're anti-Israeli, because you won't get any sympathy if you keep repeating this line. We're just pro-European, that's all (those of us who are), trying to build this castle out of sand.

As far as declarations from the EU, I'd be curious to know how many Israelis seriously expect the EU to offer Israel any political support. My guess would be not many.

As for being pro-European, you can't be myopic about your own problems most of the time, and then expect the rest of the world to sit up and listen when you issue a declaration about something going on in the rest of the world.




As for Israel's EU membership, I'm afraid they'd to change some of their most fundamental laws if they ever want to join, starting with the one about marriage between Jews and Gentiles.
Was Israel seriously hoping to join?

[AROUETLJ]

Was Israel seriously hoping to join?

No, but some crazy politicians (including Europeans) have suggested it.

Disclaimer: I'm not French, but ****ing Maltese, so spare me the WWII analogies.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

Disclaimer: I'm not French, but ****ing Maltese, so spare me the WWII analogies.

I can't say that any had occurred to me, but just a little concerned by the strongly Euro-centric nature of some of your posts.

Everybody has to worry about everybody else, for security, economic, and political reasons.

It just seem that Europeans, as a group, want to be taken seriously as a force in the world, but don't want to take any risks, put any of their soldiers in jeopardy, or fund their military capacity adequately.

Basically, just rely on lecturing the US.

[joka]

Polish deputies to EU parliament protest against conference and debate about Palestinian rights and condemning Israel. The protest included politicians of all options.
Seems that in confirms that Poland is most pro-Israeli country in Europe.

Source: todays printed press: Gazeta and Dziennik

Every single Polish representative? Regardless of political affiliation?

[sp2c]

I can't say that any had occurred to me, but just a little concerned by the strongly Euro-centric nature of some of your posts.

Everybody has to worry about everybody else, for security, economic, and political reasons.

It just seem that Europeans, as a group, want to be taken seriously as a force in the world, but don't want to take any risks, put any of their soldiers in jeopardy, or fund their military capacity adequately.

Basically, just rely on lecturing the US.

like it or not, the EU is a serious force on the world stage, economically, politically and yes militarily as well.

the fact that most nations don't spent insane amounts of their gdp on the military does not change that



but don't want to take any risks, put any of their soldiers in jeopardy,


har har har

bitch

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

like it or not, the EU is a serious force on the world stage, economically, politically and yes militarily as well.
the fact that most nations don't spent insane amounts of their gdp on the military does not change that
Militarily? You think so. The mighty EuroCorps! Seems like NATO (and the fact that the US is the major contributer) is what Europe relies on.

You call what the US spends on defense insane? Seems like we get a few calls when natural disasters occur.


har har har

bitch
The bitching continue until things change.

However, You're exempt :)

Last time I checked, the Netherlands were in dangerous areas.

[sp2c]

so is Denmark, so is Romania, so is Poland and even though the brits don't like to be called European so is the UK besides this isn't really a requirement to be a major player on world politics, Japan is a good example and so is China

but ok that was a bit fired up, I was going to edit it out but you were too fast

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

so is Denmark, so is Romania, so is Poland and even though the brits don't like to be called European so is the UK besides
My list wasn't exclusive.

And as far as being a European, maybe the Brits don't like to be called Europeans because the still want to make some decisions on their own.

"Europe" still isn't a country.


this isn't really a requirement to be a major player on world politicsI'm sure some countries that don't spend very much money on defense tell themselves that.


Japan is a good example
They spend a great deal on their military, and have helped out in Iraq.


and so is ChinaSome would argue China really isn't doing its share. And they are spending a great deal on defense. They must be worried about Taiwan attacking them.



but ok that was a bit fired up, I was going to edit it out but you were too fastI'm not sure what you could get fired up about. Europe is a confederacy.

[sp2c]

My list wasn't exclusive.

And as far as being a European, maybe the Brits don't like to be called Europeans because the still want to make some decisions on their own.

"Europe" still isn't a country.

im glad we got that out of the way
no Europe is not a country so it would be nice if people stopped referring to it as such.
when you say Europe doesn't spent enough on defence then the Greeks are going to have something to say about it
when you say Europe doesnt put it's soldiers at risk then other nations are going to complain



I'm sure some countries that don't spend very much money on defense tell themselves that.
disprove it



They spend a great deal on their military, and have helped out in Iraq.
now you're just proving my point.

they spend a great deal on their military?
a great deal less then the EU average, yes
a great deal less then the lowest spender in the EU, yes
a great deal relatively taking size and economy into account, no

so they have helped out a bit in Iraq, so have the Spanish, the Italians, the Poles, Danes, Dutch Brits, Bulgarians and god knows who else and these nations have all taken casualties in combat in Iraq while Japan only offered up a small battallion (about the size of Denmarks contribution) that had to be protected by somebody else



Some would argue China really isn't doing its share. And they are spending a great deal on defense. They must be worried about Taiwan attacking them.


perhaps the other way around :)



I'm not sure what you could get fired up about. Europe is a confederacy.

it's a union and I get fired up because we do lose people

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

im glad we got that out of the wayI question your sincerity on that point.


no Europe is not a country so it would be nice if people stopped referring to it as such.No offense, but you use the word quite a bit. A person could get the impression that you do consider it a country.


when you say Europe doesn't spent enough on defence then the Greeks are going to have something to say about it
Everyone should spend an appropriate amount on defense. Not everyone does, and some NATO capabilities (like air and sea mobility) are supplied by largely by a few members, like Britain, Canada, and the US.

Many people in the US would like all the nice socialist goodies many European countries have, which they can afford, in part, because some defense departments are relatively small.


when you say Europe doesnt put it's soldiers at risk then other nations are going to complainI'm just saying the risk should be shared equally. Many Europe won't deign to be part of OEF, whose participants end up frequently going head to head with the Taliban.



disprove it
Okay.
Question: do you think any country on the planet would have benefited if Saddam Hussein would have made Kuwait a part of his country? After that, Saudi Arabia maybe?

What country or organization was the principal force behind the effort to put Saddam in his place? the EU? the UN? or somebody else? think south of Canada.

(I'm actually daring you to say "UN", cause it's not the right answer)

Disaster relief (Tsunami) and prompt military action (Afghanistan) are just a few of the things that having a potent military enables you to do.



now you're just proving my point.

they spend a great deal on their military?
a great deal less then the EU average, yes
a great deal less then the lowest spender in the EU, yes
a great deal relatively taking size and economy into account, no
I'd need to see some figures. Last time I checked the JGSDF and the JMSDF were relatively well equipped. And Let's not forget Japan's history. Under Koizumi, they took great strides to become a greater military force.



so they have helped out a bit in Iraq, so have the Spanish,the Italians, the Poles, Danes, Dutch, Brits and god knows who else and these nations have all taken casualties in combat in Iraq
And they should be praised, but instead all the countries you mentioned helping the US in Iraq are criticized for being subservient to the US.

By who? Europeans!

Poland is ridiculed (undeservedly) for helping the US.
Same for Italy, and I really don't think Italy would have contributed troops under Prodi.
Same for Spain, but Spanish participation in Iraq was influenced by certain tragic events.



while Japan only offered up a small battallion (about the size of Denmarks contribution) that had to be protected by somebody else
Hey, for Japan, that's a big deal.



perhaps the other way around :)
I was joking a tad :)

The EU did enact a ban on selling arms to China on principle, which does deserve to be commended.

I'm sure Taiwan appreciates it.


it's a union and I get fired up because we do lose people
I'm not saying you don't or making light of anyone's sacrifice. However, Europe really isn't acting on it's own. European countries participate in UN efforts (ISAF, UNIFIL, etc) or through NATO.

And I would argue that the level of participation and risk sharing is always proportional to a country's size (read Germany)

[Moledet]

BTW I guess those MiG-29s visits to Israel are classified. But there were some pics available in press of MiGs over Israeli desert. Also on Polish military forum there was a pilot who confirmed such visits but given no details except that "we are strong!" ;)
If you mean this picture:
http://www.iaf.co.il/sip_storage/files/3/1993.jpg
Than it's an old picture of a MiG29 that was secretly brought to Israel in order to test the possibility to upgrade them for a foreign customer, during the visit of the 3 MiG29s IAF pilots flew against them every day and were greatly impressed by the fighter's capability.

[Telmar]

Nazis annexing Czech Republic and than invading Poland wasn't European or US problem too. Hear no evil, see no evil.

The UK and France declared war on Germany following the invasion of Poland.

[daily666]

The UK and France declared war on Germany following the invasion of Poland.

ORLY? And than what? Ever heard of phoney war.

[Telmar]

ORLY? And than what? Ever heard of phoney war.

Loser and catastrophic strategy...Only the Narvik battle to prevent Germany from accessing oil supplies.

[Starblast]

Only the Narvik battle to prevent Germany from accessing oil supplies.

oil supplies? not exactly. germans fought for narvik because this harbour was quite close to Swedish iron ore mines.

[Telmar]

oil supplies? not exactly. germans fought for narvik because this harbour was quite close to Swedish iron ore mines.

You are right. Why did I think that? :oops:

[Starblast]

maybe because it`s more common to fight for oil than for iron ore nowadays ;)

[pacifist]

ORLY? And than what? Ever heard of phoney war.

How was it phoney?

How could they have liberated Poland at that point?

[Starblast]

^they couldn`t have... they were totally unprepared for war.

[AROUETLJ]

Of course I'm Eurocentric, god damn it, because I've got an EU passport, and Europe's where I live. And when, like me, you come from the Third ****ing World, from a ****ty Country which was brought back from the brink of the abyss by joining the EU, then you appreciate that much-derided thing called the EU.

[Sato]

^
Hell yeah!

The EU member states's economy combined is the most potent economy in the world. Hence the EU members will manage just fine...

[shadowsrider]

^they couldn`t have... they were totally unprepared for war.

Yep, but they just could drop a single bomb on Germany except of leaflets.

[sp2c]

I question your sincerity on that point.
dont care



No offense, but you use the word quite a bit. A person could get the impression that you do consider it a country.

define quite a bit

if we're going to start making up arguments I promise you that I have a very lively imagenation


Everyone should spend an appropriate amount on defense. Not everyone does, and some NATO capabilities (like air and sea mobility) are supplied by largely by a few members, like Britain, Canada, and the US.

Many people in the US would like all the nice socialist goodies many European countries have, which they can afford, in part, because some defense departments are relatively small.

so eeeeeverybody is wrong and you are right is that it?



I'm just saying the risk should be shared equally. Many Europe won't deign to be part of OEF, whose participants end up frequently going head to head with the Taliban.
I agree




Okay.
Question: do you think any country on the planet would have benefited if Saddam Hussein would have made Kuwait a part of his country? After that, Saudi Arabia maybe?

What country or organization was the principal force behind the effort to put Saddam in his place? the EU? the UN? or somebody else? think south of Canada.

(I'm actually daring you to say "UN", cause it's not the right answer)

Iraq would've probably benevited but other then that nobody and the US was the principal force behind the whole effort.

how does this disprove anything I'm saying?



Disaster relief (Tsunami) and prompt military action (Afghanistan) are just a few of the things that having a potent military enables you to do.
true enough, but does being unable or rather unwilling to do these things make you less of a major player on the world stage?

because again, Japan is a major player and they don't generally leave their island.


I'd need to see some figures. Last time I checked the JGSDF and the JMSDF were relatively well equipped. And Let's not forget Japan's history. Under Koizumi, they took great strides to become a greater military force.

I'm not disputing this

but you can't go on a rant about Europeans not spending enough or doing enough and then say japan spends a great deal on it because they don't, it's about 1% of their gdp ... that's less actual dollars then French which has 50% less people


And they should be praised, but instead all the countries you mentioned helping the US in Iraq are criticized for being subservient to the US.

By who? Europeans!

Poland is ridiculed (undeservedly) for helping the US.
Same for Italy, and I really don't think Italy would have contributed troops under Prodi.
Same for Spain, but Spanish participation in Iraq was influenced by certain tragic events.

yes and those that didnt help in Iraq are being criticized by the Americans

doesn't really change anything


Hey, for Japan, that's a big deal.

and why is that, because of WW2?
virtually every western European nation just got out of a nasty decolonization period ... scars take time to heal



I'm not saying you don't or making light of anyone's sacrifice. However, Europe really isn't acting on it's own. European countries participate in UN efforts (ISAF, UNIFIL, etc) or through NATO.

And I would argue that the level of participation and risk sharing is always proportional to a country's size (read Germany)

no I'm saying that YOU are making light of OUR sacrifices.
it's not a contest where at the end of the year the one that loses the most people gets a pie

[Crassus]

ORLY? And than what? Ever heard of phoney war.

My God!

After the horrors of the trenches of the WWI they chose to obly their commitmet for Poland. Poland might have been sold as easy than Československo.

ps. like it was sold.

[mas-36]

ps. like it was sold.

Sold via non-aggression pact between Germany and Russia, yet GB and FR always get blamed for it anyway. :roll:

[daily666]

Sold via non-aggression pact between Germany and Russia, yet GB and FR always get blamed for it anyway. :roll:

You mean IIIrd Reich and Soviet Union. Yes GB and FR are to blame.

[ase290406]

Wanting war and being afraid of it are 2 ends of the same stick. If you want war you'll start one, if you're afraid of war - Well the collapse of the Roman Empire began with paying barbarians for not attacking Rome. We all know how that ended. The best way to avoid war is to be prepared for it. Not just with high-tech guns but mentally.

Now to get back to the name of this topic, I can only thank the Polish.
But here's my reasoning about why the EU is allowing mainly Pro-Palestinian conferences. It's Israel on the one hand and 1 milliard Muslims with lot's of oil and many Muslims who live in the EU. Justice is irrelevant.

If this is not the case than why aren't they're any such conferences on Darfur. In which people would mention that todays biggest genocide is being done by Arab-Muslims. All with the quiet consent of the entire Arab world. Not a single Arab country, (including the Palestinians) have ever stood up against what the Arab-Muslim govt of Sudan is doing. Why not boycott the Arab world for supporting Sudan? As was suggested to boycott Israel in the conference that the Polish opposed. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=119247

Edited for spelling.

[Player]

Wanting war and being afraid of it are 2 ends of the same stick. If you want war you'll start one, if your'e afraid of war - Well the collapse of the Roman Empire began with paying barbarians for not attacking Rome. We all know how that ended. The best way to avoid war is to be prepared for it. Not just with high-tech guns but mentally.

Now to get back to the name of this topic, I can only thank the Polish.
But here's my reasoning about why he EU is allowing mainly Pro-Palestinian conferences. It's Israel on the one hand and 1 miliard Muslims with lot's of oil and many Muslims who live in the EU. Justice is irrelevant.

If this is not the case than why aren't they're any such conferences on Darfur. In which people would mention that todays biggest genocide is being done by Arab-Muslims. All with the quiet consent of the entire Arab world. Not a single Arab country, (including the Palestinians) have ever stood up against what the Arab-Muslim gov't of Sudan is doing. Why not boycott the Arab world for supporting Sudan? As was suggested to boycott Israel in the conference that the Polish opposed. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=119247

Very good post Ase.

[mas-36]

Yes GB and FR are to blame.

Wrong. The non-aggression pact came as a surprise to everyone, and nothing the UK or FRA could do to change it. Somehow it doesn't surprise me to see the Poles blame everyone else, especially UK and FRA for the invasion of 1939. Why don't you put the fault where it belongs, on the 3rd Reich and USSR?

[Telmar]

Sold via non-aggression pact between Germany and Russia, yet GB and FR always get blamed for it anyway. :roll:

Do you think our Polish friends remember that their country directly benefitted from Munich? Do you think they are aware that the dictatorship that Poland was at the time took a piece of Czechoslovakia?

Playing the victim only goes so far.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement



The Czechoslovaks were also very angry with the Munich settlement. With Sudetenland gone to Germany and later southern Slovakia (one third of Slovak territory) taken by Hungary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungary) and the area of Cieszyn Silesia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cieszyn_Silesia) by Poland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland) (the disputed area west of the Olza River (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olza_River), so-called Zaolzie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaolzie) - 801.5 km² with a population of 227,399), Czecho-Slovakia (as the state was now renamed) lost its border defences with Germany and without them its independence became more nominal than real. In fact, Edvard Beneš (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Bene%C5%A1), the then-President of Czechoslovakia, had the military print the march orders for his army and put the press on standby for a declaration of war. Czechoslovakia also lost 70% of its iron/steel, 70% of its electrical power, 3.5 million citizens and the famous Škoda Works (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_Works) to Germany as a result of the settlement.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement#_note-Shirer)
After Hitler personally inspected the Czech fortifications, he privately admitted to Joseph Goebbels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels) that ‘We would have shed a lot of blood,’ and said that it was fortunate things turned out the way that they did.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement#_note-Irving_1996)

[ase290406]

Thanks Player. Just pointing out some issues that come up my head, every time I hear about those "Human rights/Peace conferences".

[IronFinn]

As for Israel's EU membership, I'm afraid they'd to change some of their most fundamental laws if they ever want to join, starting with the one about marriage between Jews and Gentiles.

Is this true? That would be purely rasist law.

[Palmach]

Is this true? That would be purely rasist law.

It is not true and there is nothing discriminatory about the marrige legislation in Israel. It is silly and archaic, that is for certain, but not rasist. Israel lacks civil marrage as such and since 1948 relevant religious bodies - Christian, Muslim, Druze, and Jewish - have been task with marrying people. The problem is that to be married according to the Jewish law both spouces must be Jewish (which is not that unusual, Orthodix Christians hold the same principl as well as, I think, Cathlics). Now, since Israel recognises unions completed in other countries, couples of different faiths (or those that refuse religious wedding as a matter of principle) just hope on a plane to Cyprus, get married, and come back legally a married couple.

Is is silly? yes. Does Israel need a civil marrage legislation? yes. Do religious parties hold too much sway and block these efforts in Knesset? yes. Is any of this rasist? no.

[*^*]

Do you think our Polish friends remember that their country directly benefitted from Munich?

But you stole that during Polish-Soviet war... and you attacked us in 39... yawn...