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View Full Version : Petraeus: Fighting for Hearts, Minds and Souls.



Lazy Lob
09-04-2007, 10:27 AM
A couple of weeks old I know but I find this article does make a valid point even though it could have been done in one sentence.


Fighting for Hearts, Minds and Souls

By Clifford D. May
Scripps Howard News Service
August 23, 2007

The first concept to grasp is that the global conflict now underway involves both a clash of arms and a clash of ideas. To succeed in this war will require effective combat on both fronts.

The second concept is this: The clash of arms and the clash of ideas influence one other, often in peculiar and even counter-intuitive ways.

One example: Al-Qaeda in Iraq could not challenge American troops directly. Their solution has been to target innocent Iraqis instead, to slaughter innocent Muslim men, women and children by the hundreds.

Why wouldn’t this cause outrage around the world? It did -- but al-Qaeda calculated that in much of the West, the outrage would be directed less at them than at Americans for “stirring up a hornet’s nest.” And, as they also expected, images of death and destruction, coupled with reports of soldiers killed by roadside bombs, soon would erode the will of many Americans to continue the fight.

Now, however, a new phase in the clash of arms may be having an unanticipated impact on a different audience. A shift in strategy initiated by the new U.S. commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus, is changing ideas about both al-Qaeda and the U.S. in Muslim societies -- and on the theological plane.

I learned this from Hassan Mneimneh, a scholar and director of the Iraq Memory Foundation, a research institution with offices in Baghdad and Washington. Mneimneh also served, as I did, as an advisor to the Baker/Hamilton commission on Iraq. And we were recently on a panel exploring U.S. interests in Iraq at the United States Institute for Peace.

This time last year, even most military people concluded that Anbar Province was irretrievably lost to al-Qaeda. But General Patreaus was not ready to give up: A few short months ago, he told Anbar’s traditional leaders, the tribal sheiks, that if they’d ally with the U.S., their people and their lands would be liberated from al-Qaeda’s “occupation.”

They agreed. Since then al-Qaeda terrorists by the score have been killed, captured and driven out of Anbar. Mneimneh wondered: How would the sheiks and religious scholars justify this alliance to themselves and their people? To put it bluntly, how would they explain partnering with infidels against fellow Muslims?

He found the answer in numerous sermons and publications -- everything from books to blogs and websites. The truth, he discovered is that most Iraqis, unlike so many Westerners, do blame al-Qaeda for the carnage al-Qaeda has carried out. And most Iraqis have not embraced al-Qaeda’s brand of Islam, with its barbarism -- e.g. the murder of children to teach their parents obedience -- and ultra-fundamentalism.

What’s more, Iraqis were deeply offended by al-Qaeda leaders -- almost all of them foreigners -- saying their interpretation of Islam is flawed and inadequate, as has been that of their families and clans for generations. Mneimneh reports that Iraqi clerics have responded by calling al-Qaeda’s version of Islam “excessive and unfair.”

To express such views while al-Qaeda militants were walking the streets would have brought severe reprisals. But over the past few months, as the surge has been making progress, and as more Iraqis have felt more secure, they have been articulating these views loudly and clearly. Mneimneh believes they are being heard beyond Anbar, beyond Iraq and even beyond the Middle East. “This is coming out,” he emphasized.

At the same time, because Petraeus has moved his troops from cloistered bases into Iraqi communities, more Iraqis are coming into contact with Americans and learning that -- frightening though they may look with their body armor and big guns -- they aren’t quite as satanic as advertised. They don’t ask for bribes. They like kids. They show respect. And they have been providing security while training Iraqis to protect themselves. They are willing to stay and assist but they would prefer to go home as soon as conditions permit -- not quite the dictionary definition of a foreign occupier.

“Note that the troops taking part in the surge have not been attacked by the Iraqis who live in the neighborhoods where they are now posted,” Mneinmeh said. “On the contrary, those Iraqis have been bringing the troops the intelligence they need to succeed.” Accepting a tactical alliance with such people does not violate Islamic doctrine, Iraqi religious scholars are daring to assert.

“The longer this persists,” Mneinmeh said, “the more Iraqis’ views will be changed. As these new views are expressed, disseminated and reinforced, it becomes less likely that they will be abandoned later.”

In other words, every day the surge continues, every day American soldiers continue to wage the clash of arms in Iraq, they also are fighting -- and perhaps winning -- a consequential clash of ideas.

http://www.defenddemocracy.org//in_the_media/in_the_media_show.htm?doc_id=519309

Hollis
09-04-2007, 10:46 AM
Thanks for the post. I don't think it could be said in one sentence.

Also I have a theory, Gen Petraeus sort of eludes to it. It is on the codependent aspect of societies.

"Why wouldn’t this cause outrage around the world? It did -- but al-Qaeda calculated that in much of the West, the outrage would be directed less at them than at Americans for “stirring up a hornet’s nest"."

Part of codependency is blame who ever causes the anger of the person who abuses others. The abuse is based on some false assumptions that it was caused by another person and there by justified.

Like a wife who was badly beaten for not having dinner at exactly 6:00, she responds by saying. "It is not his fault. It is mine, I know dinner needs to be ready at 6:00, I did failed him."

The fact is simple, Abuse can never be justified except those who are caught in the cycle of abuse.

The US did not awaken the monster of terrorism, it has always been around.

Lazy Lob
09-04-2007, 10:56 AM
Figure of speech (of sorts).

But I was alluding to the fact that these “alliances” may start chipping away at the Arab mindset.

Hollis
09-04-2007, 01:23 PM
Figure of speech (of sorts).

But I was alluding to the fact that these “alliances” may start chipping away at the Arab mindset.

One aspect is that when people become more exposed to outside worlds, for good or bad, there will be change. Some kind of adaptations of those different values and customs to their own. The fundamentalist will see this as a errosion of the "true path", I think for the rest of the world we will see this as more openness and tolerance to others.

Change is a certain, hopefully the clerics will adapt a more tolerant view of this change. They will either change or find themselves like those who refused to change, lost in history. Not much different than any other country or time when presented with change. Political and social repression has only hastened the change and those who used repression only found themselves loosing any influence they might of had over the change.

afreu
09-04-2007, 03:16 PM
The US did not awaken the monster of terrorism, it has always been around.


Well, the US didn't invent Al Quaeda but the unbelievably chaotic way the US managed post-invasion Iraq allowed Al Quaeda to gain a foothold in Iraq. So yes the USA are to blame.

Lazy Lob
09-04-2007, 04:26 PM
One aspect is that when people become more exposed to outside worlds, for good or bad, there will be change. Some kind of adaptations of those different values and customs to their own. The fundamentalist will see this as a errosion of the "true path", I think for the rest of the world we will see this as more openness and tolerance to others.

Change is a certain, hopefully the clerics will adapt a more tolerant view of this change. They will either change or find themselves like those who refused to change, lost in history. Not much different than any other country or time when presented with change. Political and social repression has only hastened the change and those who used repression only found themselves loosing any influence they might of had over the change.

Isn’t cross infection great? At least in situations like these. I just hope it’s chronic.

Hollis
09-04-2007, 04:39 PM
Well, the US didn't invent Al Quaeda but the unbelievably chaotic way the US managed post-invasion Iraq allowed Al Quaeda to gain a foothold in Iraq. So yes the USA are to blame.


I think you would blame the US regardless of who is at fault. I bet you blame the victim for being victimized too.

Hollis
09-04-2007, 04:45 PM
Isn’t cross infection great? At least in situations like these. I just hope it’s chronic.


I do too. If we look at the last century, the Western world went through some enormous changes. I think most are in the positive directions. I think simple additions like the internet, with all its pluses and minus is making the world a more some semblance of peaceful coexistance is possible.

Lazy Lob
09-04-2007, 04:54 PM
I do too. If we look at the last century, the Western world went through some enormous changes. I think most are in the positive directions. I think simple additions like the internet, with all its pluses and minus is making the world a more some semblance of peaceful coexistance is possible.

Couldn’t agree with you more. The internet is a Trojan horse against despots and they still haven't realised it.

afreu
09-04-2007, 05:08 PM
I think you would blame the US regardless of who is at fault. I bet you blame the victim for being victimized too.

I'm not blaming the US government directly for all the victims of the civil war in Iraq. What I'm saying is that, independently of the question if the invasion was the right thing to do in the first place, that the US government handled the post-invasion phase incredibly incompotent. Now you could say that it's not easy to invade a country, reconstruct it and do everything right. But the naivety and dullness with which the US led the Iraq sank into chaos is unbelievable. It seems like no one ever thought about reconstruction strategy after the invasion. Now several years and tenthousand deaths later the US are still struggling and it's still not clear if the mission will ever be successfull.


/edit - I agree that the internet adds a lot of advantages in the fight of people against despots. But if you look at the way China censors the internets and uses it to hunt down regime critics I doubt the endless possibilities of the internet. Another thing is that in some of the poorest countries ruled by despots internet access is rare.

Lazy Lob
09-04-2007, 05:19 PM
/edit - I agree that the internet adds a lot of advantages in the fight of people against despots. But if you look at the way China censors the internets and uses it to hunt down regime critics I doubt the endless possibilities of the internet. Another thing is that in some of the poorest countries ruled by despots internet access is rare.

Wrong end of the wedge chum.

But you're right in as far as the Chinese gov doesn’t like the web. They know only too well the dangers involved. But not even they can stop it.

BigBaribal
09-05-2007, 10:58 AM
It's very strange to notice that a man, at the level of this general, can nevertheless live in a fantasy world, totally cut from the reality!