US Special Forces Roles? [Classic thread - selected for idiocy]

[Whisky_Indigo_Lima]

EDIT: I APOLOGISE FOR THE DOUBLE POST, HAVING INTERENT TROUBLE

Hello everyone!

1ST QUESTION
I am a British student who has an interest in all things SOF, and i am somewhat confused about why the US has so many special forces regiments and if/or how there roles overlap each other. In Britain (to the best of my knowledge) we have a far simpler SOF structure. You start off at the bottom with the grunts of the infantry, then the more elite infantry the paras, in the paras you have the elite(er) patherfinders recon element, and then the Navy has the marines. All well trained, RM, probably the best trained out of all of them but there are generally conventional warfare. Then the SAS and SBS make up the "actual" special forces muscle for anti terrorism, specialist missions etc etc (please correct me if i am wrong up to this point)

However in the US army ad least you have the Delta boys and Green Berets. When would one be employed over the other, plus you also have the rangers, why employ the rangers over green berets or even the standard infantry for missions. Then you have the Navy's SEAL's. Now i am assuming they operate near the coast and relatively shortly inland, so where would the powers that be decide to use SEAL's over Delta, inland? Basically if you have not understood what on earth i am on about up to this point, what is the structure of the US special forces and when are certain regiments used over others.

I know of at least these ones:

Delta
SEAL's
Rangers
Green Berets
Marines

SECOND QUESTION

So that i dont bombard the forums with new threads i thought i would also include this question in this thread.

The M4! Is it not getting replaced sometimein 2008 as the US's prime assault rifle? I heard somewhere that the contract with Colt runs out soon, and i was wondering with all you ex or present Military folk around this forum is it going to get replaced through out the US military with a new caliber 6.8 or just an improved m4 like the Colt M5 or the HK416 (I know Delta have got the hk416) or will they go for a brand new weapon like the SCAR. Which brings me onto my final question. I know Delta now use the HK416, but i also heard the SCAR has been accepted to fit out all SOCOM soldiers, so who are they? Not Delta?


Thanks for you patience if you have read everything. I am young and am facinated with things SOF and have no military experience

Whisky

[Heazy]

nvm...........

[Mjolnir]

New members are encouraged to use the http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x108/Mjolnir_bucket/search.gif button or try http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x108/Mjolnir_bucket/7119.gif

Thank you.

[Whisky_Indigo_Lima]

I have googled and used the search button. I do realse due to the larger size of the US, the need for more Spec Ops guys, but why not make the Delta and Seals larger, rather then having lots of different forces which will quarel over operations...or is this nort the case?

[MetroN]

I have googled and used the search button. I do realse due to the larger size of the US, the need for more Spec Ops guys, but why not make the Delta and Seals larger, rather then having lots of different forces which will quarel over operations...or is this nort the case?


Not everybody is cut for everything, you know. There is a training process that the recruits have to go trough, and few passes it.

So instead of lowering the standards to get more men, "they" keep the standards up to make sure that the few men they get in are the best. That's why the Elite is Elite.

And for the weapon question, you will find that it's been up for debate several times here. I would recommend that you look for the threads and read them, so you get a picture of the real deal peoples view on this forum, then you will be less likely to step in to the ****.

And for the record, (mostly) all the SF guys use what ever equipment they want to use.

Welcome to the forum.

[lightfire]

I have googled and used the search button. I do realse due to the larger size of the US, the need for more Spec Ops guys, but why not make the Delta and Seals larger, rather then having lots of different forces which will quarel over operations...or is this nort the case?

first-different branches, different operations and sometimes - tasks.
Second - sometimes attached particular SOF units are the only ones,or best suitibale for the task in the area
third - already answered. It goes under SOCOM comand anyway, so why to merge everything into one gigantic, beurocratic, merde, there's no point. The main Idea of SOCOM is to coordinate actions of various specialised units and attach the best at the moment, that are capable to carry out the task.

[haze99]

Based upon National Command request, the mission will decide who is to deploy and what their paramenters will be. Each organization you have listed has a unique mission within its given branch. (you forgot AFSOC STS's!) And they can overlap in some cases, but are trained and tasked for a specific role. Just like in coventional forces, you won't get a supply company to assault a trench-line would you? No, you would use your infantry and prep the area by artillery first.
How would you increase the size? Lower standards? Plus, if you are to increase these units in number, it will cost you a good "coin". Processing, selection, pay and gear. (ah gear, where would one begin on that?)
In the USA, Special Forces refers to the US Army "Green Berets". (which is their garrion head-gear.) If you are refering to all SOCOM assets, Special Operations Forces would be the correct term.

[Whisky_Indigo_Lima]

So is the US Special Forces i.e Green Berets and SOCOM two seperate entities?

When i said make one of the units larger e.g. Delta i didnt mean decrease training standards to make the force larger. Rather do away with Green Berets and any other army special forces regiment and organise any army soldier who wants to become spec ops to get into Delta...if that makes any sense..haha....therefore all army spec ops personel are under one roof. I was just thinking (hypothetically of course) if i was in the US infantry and i wanted to become a Spec Ops operator, how would i decide which to aim for, Delta, Green Berets, The Unit (wink), or if in the navy would i go SEAL's, Marine force recon etc etc

If someone could post up what each US special forces regiment specialises in then that would be most interesting. ie. I assume Delta specialises in couter terrorism and maybe Green Berets work more "in the field" s to speak.

Thanks for the comments so far. Great community!

[deagle]

http://www.specialoperations.com/default2.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_special_forces_units

[AZRON]

EDIT: I APOLOGISE FOR THE DOUBLE POST, HAVING INTERENT TROUBLE

Hello everyone!


I know of at least these ones:

Delta A very selective combined mission team for SWAT and Ninja type duty. Originally for airplane type hostage release missions.Most of them comeup from below listed groups

SEAL's : Originally Navy Frogmen/UDT types but added recon and sabotage during Korean War and more specialized combat duties during VN War.

Rangers :Highly trained light infantry originally patterned after Brit. Cammandos and Wingates Chindits .

Green Berets Primary mission to train indigenous allied 3rd world troops. Can do other mission types like recon etc.

Marines Naval infantry originally sharpshooters and gendarmes on U.S. warships. Mission extended to guarding embassys and land warfare as they were a seaborne QRF.



We also have CIA SOF types that are similar to SF but can carry money to bribe , pay the help and play dirty tricks , they also recruit from above groups.

[lt tahoe]

The UK has a total of some 400,000 troops (active and reserve). The US has over 2 million. That is certainly one reason why there are more such units in the US military vs. the UK.

Accordingly, the US tends to have more troops deployed around the world; US forces are deployed to at least 35 countries these days. Many of those missions involve FID and other training, generally a SOF specialty.

[-DarthMaul-]

Marines arent SF or SOF.

I believe the Marines have thier own SOF, called Special Operation Battalions"?? And Force Recon also.

Delta force people are Army Special Forces btw :P. I believe they fall in under thier own Detachment..Delta basically(you know how they have ODA, ODB, etc.) Every one of the four detachments has different duties, and missions. Delta's main mission is probably unknown to most, but alot of peple guess its alot of DA and Counter-Terror missions.

Also. Some consider Rangers more high speed than SF. Rangers are more like the super light infantry, lightning fast, shock-and-awe, and fierce. They do more conventional warfare than SF. SF are high speed too, but thier numbers are small and WAY different mission.

Remember you're forgetting also SWICCs from the US Navy :P They deserve recognition too. But I believe SEALs+SWICC = your SBS.

well thats my two cents. I could be wrong some where.

[SonKev]

We also have CIA SOF types that are similar to SF but can carry money to bribe , pay the help and play dirty tricks , they also recruit from above groups.


We call them Ground Branch, right?

[silveykyle]

I need to start drinking heavily after reading this thread.

[Whisky_Indigo_Lima]

I need to start drinking heavily after reading this thread.

Why is that? :)

What is SWICCS? Cant say i have heard of them!

[California Joe]

Jesus, this thread should be sent to Al Queda as a misinformation op.

[BrianT]

Ok I'm going to try my best at this:

Delta/CAG/whatever. Cream of the crop, counter-terrorism is their main mission, but of course they do other things. I don't know their numbers, but it's very small. Selection is like ****ing 40 mile land nav courses with 500lbs rucks in flip-flops. By the way, these guys are not Special Forces and aren't even remotely related to SF. SFOD is just a ****ing name. They don't fall under USASOC, but instead JSOC. Delta basically runs JSOC.

ST6/DEVGRU/Whatever. This is what most people think when they think SEALs. Counter-terrorism is their main mission, but probably more training towards the maritime stuff. Think water platforms and boats. Honestly, I'm not sure. Overseas they just do the same **** Delta does. Also, part of JSOC, I don't believe they fall under NSW though. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Special Forces/Green Berets/Whatever. The stereotypical mission is to infil secretly in some tyrannical country, work with the indigenious foces, train them up in guerilla warfare, and then have those guys start up an insurgency. I can't say that's what I've always heard what they do. One of the things they emphasis probably more than other SOFs is language training. They fall under USASOC.

Rangers/Battboys/Whatever. Premier, elite infantry whatever. Oddly enough SF and Ranger claim some of the same unit lineage. The stereotypical missions usually involve airfield siezures and raids and such. Overseas depending on what AO you deploy to, you could be pulling security/BPs for Tier 1 units, or end up being main effort. It's nothing, but insurgent extract and what they call sensitive site exploitation(SSE) Basically involves gathering evidence to incriminate believed insurgents. This is basically what all SOF are doing overseas. The Regiment has other elements, which do other sort of missions. Each battalion has a Recce Platoon, and their are also 3 Ranger Recon teams at the Regimental level. They fall under both JSOC and USASOC.

160th SOAR/Night Stalkers/Whatever. They give SOF rides in helicopters. Enough said. Part of JSOC and USASOC. Really scared to fly out during day/they never do it ie if you don't exfil by 0530, you're camping out in somebody's house.

Navy SEALs/OMG SEALs/Whatever. Do I really need to say anything about these guys. It's mainly a direct action unit. **** if I know what regular Navy SEALs are doing overseas. ST3 seemed to do a bunch of nothing where I was deployed last, but then again they could have been doing a bunch of hooah **** during the day while I was sleeping. Probably the same snatch and grab ****/SSE everybody else is doing.

Special Boat Teams. A bunch of guys with cool guy kit that gave us rides in boats down the Euphrates. Not positive if they ever get off the boats and do other ****. Someone let me know.

Pararescue. Basically they rescue people and give medical attention. Typically pretty mean looking guys.

Combat Controllers. They direct air traffic and seem to double up as FOs.

Combat Weathermen. Yeah don't ask me.

Marine SOBs. Yeah its a new unit. **** if I know what they are doing. Probably snatch and grab/SSE just like everybody ****ing else.

Probably a bunch of this **** is wrong or ****ed up and I really don't give a ****. Probably only the commander of SOCOM really knows what the **** is going on.

[Ezekiel25:17]

USMC. Nuff said . Lock thread.

[Canadian Sig]

But where does the uber-cool kit, ultra awesome, super mobile airsoft ninja regiment fit into this mix?

[PrivatePyle]

But where does the uber-cool kit, ultra awesome, super mobile airsoft ninja regiment fit into this mix?

The guys with beards and secret nods?

[Canadian Sig]

The guys with beards and secret nods?

and a seemingly limitless budget for super-gucci kit..... :D

[Laconian]

BrianT, I don't know if you were being sarcastic or not, but that was some funny shyte. I had bourbon coming out of my nose.

Whisky, asking why the US has so many SOF is like asking why there are so many beer flavors. It doesn't matter why, just enjoy that they are there.

[szr]

Marine SOBs.
I like the ring of that.

[Chops]

Was thinking the same thing CJ. Making my brain hurt... :-(

Okay Whisky...

1. Remember there are two pertinent commands in the US structure relevant to your question- USSOCOM and JSOC.

USSOCOM oversees all special operations forces in the US military- AFSOC, ARSOC, NAVSPECWARCOM. Thus Army SF, Rangers, Civil Affairs, PSYOP; Navy Special Warfare; USAF Special Tactics etc etc etc.

Each of these component commands and indeed each of their units has a specific set of tasks in their role- Army SF have Foreign Internal Defense for instance which is training foreign forces whilst CA obviously have the mandate for all CA ops etc etc etc.

JSOC which is a subordinate command under USSOCOM oversees all special mission units including Delta. JSOC has a specialist direct action CT mandate.

I hope you can understand from the above that each unit has their own role under USSOCOM and whilst there is some interchange and 'in extremis' tasking they pretty much stay in lane.

Your idea of "do(ing) away with Green Berets and any other army special forces regiment and organise any army soldier who wants to become spec ops to get into Delta" doesn't work as Delta has a very specific role and SF have a very specific role.

Want to raise and train a guerilla army? Army SF. Want to kill/snatch a bad guy in a hostile location? Delta. As I say there is interchange, for instance with SF carrying out DA operations, but each has a defined role that they train and prepare for.

A British comparison would be- let's lump everyone into the SBS. Wouldn't work as I've illustrated- SBS have a distinct role, SAS has a distinct role, SFSG have theirs, SRR theirs etc etc etc. Seeing where I'm going with this?

2. M4 replacement? USSOCOM are issuing the SCAR family. JSOC, a component command of USSOCOM remember, are issuing the 416 to some of their guys who have a lot of latitude on equipment selection. M4s will be around for a long time to come though as the SCARs trickle down through the system.

Welcome to mp.net

[socom6]

Im confused...

[Covert_US]

Theres also the Strategic Support Branch, Intelligence Support Activity, and Special Activities Division (CIA), all aka best of the best of the best of the best.

[Ravage]

Thank You Chops, I learned something.



160th SOAR/Night Stalkers/Whatever. They give SOF rides in helicopters. Enough said. Part of JSOC and USASOC. Really scared to fly out during day/they never do it ie if you don't exfil by 0530, you're camping out in somebody's house.


That was.......:-( just so wrong !

[Chops]

Theres also the Strategic Support Branch, Intelligence Support Activity, and Special Activities Division (CIA), all aka best of the best of the best of the best.

What are you talking about little boy? One of the above doesn't have shooters, one of the others falls under JSOC and the other is not even military. Don't think that by throwing out a few uber cool names you are somewhow in the know- in fact you have two of them wrong. And whats with this "best of best" crap- seriously grow the **** up- you are certainly living up to your award.

Twat.

[PrivatePyle]

What are you talking about little boy? One of the above doesn't have shooters, one of the others falls under JSOC and the other is not even military. Don't think that by throwing out a few uber cool names you are somewhow in the know- in fact you have two of them wrong. And whats with this "best of best" crap- seriously grow the **** up- you are certainly living up to your award.

Twat.

I'd never encountered this guy before on here, but the name 'COVERT_US' just screams idiot to me.

[Chops]

Oh read some of his post history mate- pure gold wanker

[PrivatePyle]

rofl, I just found the 'Possibly joining the SEALs....' thread.

I assume that got him his DAOTW?

edit : 'It's not what you fight for, it's who you fight for.'

ah yes, it all becomes clear now.

[California Joe]

Nicely done Chops. Man, you should think about writing a book or something. p-)

[Covert_US]

Trust me guys, I play commandos from those units all the time in Rainbow Six, Ghost Recon, and Counter Strike. They are for real.

[Chops]

Okay you almost redemmed yourself there son :).

Almost.

[REDLINE]

Then there's HRT. I know, I know...not military, but someone had to throw another uber elite unit in there. :D :D

[Royal]

The UK has a total of some 400,000 troops (active and reserve).

What are you smoking?

The UK has less than 150,000 troops (active and reserve).

Nicely done Chops. Man, you should think about writing a book or something. p-)

rofl rofl

What do you know about it? What colour's the boathouse?

Ooops you know that one.

What colour's the cookhouse?

Chops, Thanks for explaining what I couldn't be arsed to mate p-)

[Henry's Fork]

What are you smoking?

The UK has less than 150,000 troops (active and reserve).


Must be some of that WikipediaGanja he was smoking. Like regular Ganja, WikepediaGanja can make you dumb at times. p-)

Active personnel 195,900 (April 2006) (ranked 22th)
Reserve personnel 191,300 regular reserve (April 2005)
42,300 volunteer reserve (April 2005)

*shrugs*

[DeltaWhisky58]

Hell's teeth, just come in on this thread, this is incredible - even some of our long standing SF obsessives couldn't have come up with something quite so asinine.

The SF Obsessives award for stupid posting goes to ... ... http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/HighlandSniper58/Emoticons/iwin.gifwith a special mention for Ravage of course.

[CMN]

Then there's HRT

Hormone Replacement Therapy will guaranteed **** up an insurgent leader.

[StaticLine]

ok here's the deal...:)

it started out like this until not too long ago when USSOCOM & JSOC was created to put all of them under one roof for more interoperatability...imagine all the US military branches (Army, Navy, Air Force & USMC) as brothers...each of them wants to have his own tool to play with and use when needed...if one of them gets asked to do somethin, he'd hate to say he couldn't do it and needs to borrow one from one of his brothers to do the job...but now it's slowly changing hence you see more Task Forces created (by USSOCOM & JSOC) to carry out certain taskings and these are inter-service intities put together to become more efficient tools...

USMC tried to resist getting pulled into this secret squirrel world though maybe because they're greedy and didn't wanna share or maybe because they always say the whole Corps is "special" and the whole Corps is too big to fit inside USSOCOM :lol:


EDIT: can somebody from IDF Home Guard tell me who this girl is on my avatar..?..:lol:

[Kippari]

ok here's the deal...:)

it started out like this until not too long ago when USSOCOM & JSOC was created to put all of them under one roof for more interoperatability...imagine all the US military branches (Army, Navy, Air Force & USMC) as brothers...each of them wants to have his own tool to play with and use when needed...if one of them gets asked to do somethin, he'd hate to say he couldn't do it and needs to borrow one from one of his brothers to do the job...but now it's slowly changing hence you see more Task Forces created (by USSOCOM & JSOC) to carry out certain taskings and these are inter-service intities put together to become a more efficient tool...

USMC tried to resist getting pulled into this secret squirrel world though maybe because they're greedy and didn't wanna share or maybe because they always say the whole Corps is "special" and the whole Corps is too big to fit inside USSOCOM :lol:

AFAIK MarSoc is currently under USSOCOM however. Right?

[PrivatePyle]

Nice, people are getting custom tags in record breaking time :D

[Whisky_Indigo_Lima]

Hell's teeth, just come in on this thread, this is incredible - even some of our long standing SF obsessives couldn't have come up with something quite so asinine.

The SF Obsessives award for stupid posting goes to ... ... http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/HighlandSniper58/Emoticons/iwin.gifwith a special mention for Ravage of course.

Is this "award" aimed at me?...or at the topic of the thread or some of the comments posted in it?

Chops thanks for the explanation, exactly what i was trying to get my head around...cheers all!

[DeltaWhisky58]

Is this "award" aimed at me?...or at the topic of the thread or some of the comments posted in it?

Chops thanks for the explanation, exactly what i was trying to get my head around...cheers all!

Of course it is - this is one of the most asinine noob threads we've seen in ages - wise up!

[SuperBootie]

I need to start drinking heavily after reading this thread.
I know the feeling and he's a Brit lad, so that's doubly bad!

[ibstolidude]

Probably a bunch of this **** is wrong or ****ed up then why post it? and I really don't give a ****.
You should, you look like a goon.

[Rotorhead]

This thread needs 'loadout' in it's title. DW would like prefer that I think.

[DeltaWhisky58]

There's enough strupidty in this thread already without your input thanks. ;-) :bash:

[SuperBootie]

There's enough strupidty in this thread already without your input thanks. ;-) :bash:

OK don't get it! Is that in code DW40?:)

[DeltaWhisky58]

OK don't get it! Is that in code DW40?:)

No, it's called Friday afternoon keyboarditis. As I told you elsewhere, I'm an old fart, make allowances.

[Baboonass]

Oh............my...................God.




It's a retard o' thon.

[gaz]

Oh............my...................God.




It's a retard o' thon.

It wasn't complete until you and I posted in it though.

[BrianT]

then why post it?
You should, you look like a goon.Yes, a goon. That's what I was going for. A couple of people found the humor in it. Maybe you should take the time and loosen up a bit. It's actually fairly accurate as well.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Yes, a goon. That's what I was going for. A couple of people found the humor in it. Maybe you should take the time and loosen up a bit. It's actually fairly accurate as well.

Insulting moderators insn't the best idea if you wish a long and useful life on this forum.

I suggest you look at the bottom of any of our forums where a list of moderators is posted before you next open your mouth and insert both size 12s.

:bash:

[Baboonass]

It's actually fairly accurate as well.


I hate to burst your bubble, but no.

[BrianT]

I hate to burst your bubble, but no.PM the inaccuracies. I'm curious myself. Especially considering some of what I described was first hand accounts.

[Baboonass]

PM the inaccuracies. I'm curious myself. Especially considering some of what I described was first hand accounts.


You put out a bunch of utter crap like it's gospil, and expect me to PM you the inaccuracies?


How about this insted, if you don't really know, keep your yap shut rather than looking like a complete idiot.

Have the best day ever.

[BrianT]

You put out a bunch of utter crap like it's gospil, and expect me to PM you the inaccuracies?


How about this insted, if you don't really know, keep your yap shut rather than looking like a complete idiot.

Have the best day ever.
Gospel? I think not. You think I was serious about the 40 mile ruck march in flip flops? If I didn't know something, I flatly stated it. Otherwise, it's either a true statement or a flippant remark. Ease up buddy.

[cdharmon]

hi everybody. i heard delt@ and SEALS have to live in the congo for a month without food or water and kill 3 ppl using bamboo shoots and warrior ninja skills? thnx ppl.

[lightfire]

Isin't a good time to lock it down already..? It attracts various DOTW wanabees like s*it attracts flies..

[DeltaWhisky58]

Isin't a good time to lock it down already..? It attracts various DOTW wanabees like s*it attracts flies..

Yes, it attracted you!

Thank you, but the moderators manage to make such decisions quite well without external input.

If this threat needs locking, we'll lock it.

[Whisky_Indigo_Lima]

I dont see why i am getting flamed for asking a legitimate question about US spec ops....i feel a first noob thread would entile something like "whats the coolect gun in the world?"

Dont blame me for the way people have responded to the thread!

[Bullet28]

hi everybody. i heard delt@ and SEALS have to live in the congo for a month without food or water and kill 3 ppl using bamboo shoots and warrior ninja skills? thnx ppl.

No,I heard that they started using toothpicks to kill people:bash:

[muttbutt]

Jesus wept, is this still going?....:-(, WDL whether you meant this to turn out like it has or not, threads like this attract certain people on this site.....most of whom should not be allowed onto the net in the first place

[DeltaWhisky58]

OK guys, I really do think this thread is past it's sell-by date now. Quite a few of our resident idiots have come out of the woodwork to their own cost.


**** Archived for posterity owing to the pure stupidity of the thread ****

[Beowulf]

can't believe I missed this one...i'm posting in here just to be a part of something so ..."special".




Things are getting busy at school....