View Full Version : Muslim Ambassadors: 'Sweden Needs to Change Its Laws'
Jeremiah
09-07-2007, 08:36 AM
Published: 6th September 2007 17:19 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/8412/
Ambassadors from Muslim countries have indicated that they intend to present the Swedish prime minister with a list of demands when they meet for talks on Friday.
Fredrik Reinfeldt invited the ambassadors from 20 Muslim countries to government offices on Friday following a wave of protests from Muslim countries after the publication of a caricature of Muhammad in local newspaper Nerikes Allehanda.
Reinfeldt's press secretary Oscar Hållén was unable to say which countries had confirmed their attendance.
Egyptian ambassador Mohamed Sotouhi told news agency TT that he and a group of fellow ambassadors had agreed on a list of measures Sweden needed to take if it was to secure a long-term solution to the Muhammad cartoon controversy.
According to Sotouhi, "comprehensive measures" were required if Sweden was to prevent some "amateur artist" from reawakening tensions every other month.
"We want to see action, not just nice words. We have to push for a change in the law," he said.
"Muslims need legal protection against the desecration of the Prophet Muhammad, maybe something similar to the protection enjoyed by Jews and homo******s."
While praising the "very constructive steps" taken by Fredrik Reinfeldt, the Egyptian ambassador said that Sweden had much work left to do.
"In the long term the school curriculum has to convince pupils that if they want to express their opinion they should do so in such a way that it doesn't cause offence or hurt. This should also be part of journalism training," said Sotouhi.
"A permanent parliamentary committee also needs to be established to tackle islamophobia," he added.
The ambassador urged Reinfeldt to strive towards "reaching a balance between freedom of speech and taking responsibility to avoid offending Muslims or other religious groups in this society".
"Everybody will compare his wisdom with the situation in Denmark, whose prime minister treated the problem with a sort of arrogance, or at least delayed taking action to prevent the problem from escalating," he said.
Sotouhi described Sweden as a sophisticated country containing talented and creative diplomats.
"They know that proactive measures are necessary and we are ready to cooperate with them," he said.
Algeria's ambassador to Sweden, Merzak Bedjaoui, said the meeting "was an excellent initiative taken in a spirit of appeasement."
"At our level, we are trying to work hand in hand with Swedish authorities to try to create a real bridge between our communities," he said.
"When we speak of a dialogue between civilisations, it can't just be a catchy slogan. I think that the publication of this kind of caricature doesn't help at all," he said.
Earlier in the day the Oscar Hållén said that the meeting would form "part of our dialogue with these countries."
"We want to emphasize the fact that Muslims and Christians live side by side in Sweden in a spirit of mutual respect," he said.
Hållén further added that the government intended to reiterate its earler defence of Swedish laws surrounding freedom of expression.
Billy No Mates
09-07-2007, 08:42 AM
The muslim ambassadors are right a dialogue would be good,in that spirit what will the Swedes be asking them to do? .
number nine
09-07-2007, 08:42 AM
How they dare! Simply throw them into first jet to Cairo, Swedes! That's what I would do.
They themselves ignore critique from the West, and rightly I say, yet they assume we have no spine and no brains!
shire19
09-07-2007, 08:48 AM
And just a day later on the same website :roll:
Muslim ambassadors 'made no demands'
Published: 7th September 2007 12:52 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.se/8424/
Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt met on Friday with ambassadors from twenty Muslim countries for talks surrounding the publication in a Swedish newspaper of a caricature of the Muslim prophet Muhammad.
The envoys are not reported to have called for Sweden to change its laws to protect against the desecration of the Muslim prophet. After a meeting with his Muslim colleagues on Thursday, the Egyptian ambassador indicated that the group wanted to see "action, not just nice words."
But Reinfeldt said that the ambassadors did not present a list of demands at government offices in Rosenbad.
"There were no demands in that sense. We had a very positive dialogue," said Reinfeldt.
The ambassadors agreed earlier in the week to condemn the publication, which they described as a "humiliating action", and to hand over a letter to the government pointing out the importance of reaching a long-term solution.
"We reject all forms of violence, psychological as well as physical," Iran's ambassador Hassan Ghashghavi told TT after the meeting.
"Diplomacy needs to be employed for issues such as this. It is my view that the Swedish government has handled this situation well. Causing offence does not belong to the concept of freedom of speech," he added.
Reinfeldt said that he had "explained how Swedish society works and that we don't have elected representatives making editorial decisions", adding that "this is an open country, a tolerant country".
The Prime Minister also noted that the ambassadors had thanked him for calling the meeting.
"We agreed that the best way to deal with this issue is through dialogue. We pointed to the importance of the fact that we are using dialogue as a starting point to quell tensions," said Reinfeldt.
Lars Vilks' caricature was published on August 18th in local newspaper Nerikes Allehanda.
Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan and the 57-nation Orgaization of the Islamic Conference have all lodged official protests and demanded punitive action.
The Ministry for Foreign Affairs is advising Swedish citizens to exercise caution when travelling to the Middle East.
"Swedes are advised to take care and stay up to date with media reports," said spokeswoman Anna Björkander.
http://www.thelocal.se/8424/20070907/
number nine
09-07-2007, 08:50 AM
"Diplomacy needs to be employed for issues such as this. It is my view that the Swedish government has handled this situation well. Causing offence does not belong to the concept of freedom of speech," he added.
Parody does. OMG.
A 'list of demands' from ambassadors, to prevent people from speaking freely?
HAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
..lost breath.. must go on.
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAH
There are a lot of freedoms that we have given up here in Europe, but we will say, write and draw whatever we want about your child-molesting, invading, conquering, genociding prophet, and you can't do a damn thing about it.
RAFREGT.
09-07-2007, 09:51 AM
There are a lot of freedoms that we have given up here in Europe, but we will say, write and draw whatever we want about your child-molesting, invading, conquering, genociding prophet, and you can't do a damn thing about it.
oh mate...why bother?!?! incoming.....:bash:
mr.joe
09-07-2007, 11:19 AM
"We reject all forms of violence, psychological as well as physical," Iran's ambassador Hassan Ghashghavi told TT after the meeting.
"Diplomacy needs to be employed for issues such as this. It is my view that the Swedish government has handled this situation well. Causing offence does not belong to the concept of freedom of speech," he added.
Haha and this is comming from Irans ambassador! An ambassador from a country wich constantly dicriminates the jews, a country were pictures of Muhammed are being sold in the streets every day! A (ganster)nation like Northkorea who tries to get influence by developing nuclear weapons! It's a ****ing joke!
ltrowley
09-07-2007, 11:44 AM
They should parade hot swedish women infront of them until they convert from islam so they can get stuck into them. No need for dialogue, just action, lots of hot swedish action.
0rphie
09-07-2007, 01:16 PM
A 'list of demands' from ambassadors, to prevent people from speaking freely?
HAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
..lost breath.. must go on.
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHHAHAAHHAHAAH
There are a lot of freedoms that we have given up here in Europe, but we will say, write and draw whatever we want about your child-molesting, invading, conquering, genociding prophet, and you can't do a damn thing about it.
there is a distinction between freedom of speech and hate speech
Muslim Ambassadors: 'Sweden Needs to Change Its Laws'
Rather the Muslim world needs to change its selfunderstanding. I'm totally sick of this kind of bull****.
We shall protect their sermonizers who make mockery of other Gods and who demand the killing of all infidels but they want us to remove the same Freedom of Speech they claim for themselves in that case. It's a total bigotry.
Lazy Lob
09-07-2007, 03:23 PM
there is a distinction between freedom of speech and hate speech
Hate speech against an idea? You taking the micky? Why not gag everyone.
And who is going to differentiate, you? A judge? And if we get it wrong? Who pays? Will you fix it?
Grow up.
there is a distinction between freedom of speech and hate speech
Yes, yes there is. I am not advocating violence. I am not advocating preferential treatment of white Europeans contra Muslims. I am not advocating any use of force towards members of other faiths.
I am against violence by stating that I am against a death cult, and it is my right to make that statement.
'Hate speech' is only illegal if it is directly threatening or encouraging violence against specific groups or persons - in those cases it is simply assault via a third party. Other than that speech is unregulated, and thank goodness it is and will stay that way.
number nine
09-07-2007, 04:29 PM
And Christianity don't ask we have all our life to repent for eternal sin of our progenitors until we are delivered in afterlife?
Christianity is more centered around death than Islam.
Just like Christianity can be interpreted in backward and fundamentalistic way, Islam can too.
Problem is backward interpretations are common in Islam. They need to be outlawed by Islamic priests themselves at last!
Recently, I heard an interesting comment of a scientist who stated that the conflict with the Muslim world will continue as long as it becomes wealthier again.
According to him, many Muslims do believe their faith is the only real and good religion in this world and therefore they get frustrated that it apparently does not offer the good life they had expected to get.
But they hardly could develop wealth due to restrictions their religion imposed, only they could not admit this because then they would uncover the inferiority they feel.
It's kinda vicious circle.
there is a distinction between freedom of speech and hate speech
No there isn't. If our PM had any guts he would have told them to **** off (in a diplomatic way).
Freedom is a stormy ocean, only easily scared people prefer the silence of tyranny.
No there isn't. If our PM had any guts he would have told them to **** off (in a diplomatic way).
Freedom is a stormy ocean, only easily scared people prefer the silence of tyranny.
There are only two different opinions about that issue. And people who prefer to see a distinction are not necessarily easily scared, rest assured.
number nine
09-07-2007, 04:49 PM
And you don't believe they see the "difference" just because it suits their agenda?
And you don't believe they see the "difference" just because it suits their agenda?
No, I don't. But I don't think either it will be easy to explain why.
Or to become more precisely, I already tried to explain it before but my arguments were said to be only a part of this ominous "agenda" as well.
p-)
There are only two different opinions about that issue. And people who prefer to see a distinction are not necessarily easily scared, rest assured.
They sure are. Only pseudo-democracies in Europe. My own country included.
number nine
09-07-2007, 04:57 PM
We should then write our list of demands to them am I right, relating to protection of other faiths and their symbols? I agree wholeheartedly. And of course not only "people of the book" but even those that can't be dhimmi by Quran, like Wiccans.
I hope I made it clearer for you.
They sure are. Only pseudo-democracies in Europe. My own country included.
I fail to see why it should be related to scare to simply have a different opinion on how a constitution should work. In fact rather your point of view is related to scare, a permanent fear that one may come to steal your rights and freedoms...
We should then write our list of demands to them am I right, relating to protection of other faiths and their symbols? I agree wholeheartedly. And of course not only "people of the book" but even those that can't be dhimmi by Quran, like Wiccans.
I hope I made it clearer for you.
If you meant me I must negate :oops:
number nine
09-07-2007, 05:03 PM
Why you negate Muck? They are allowed to make demands from you, yet you are not allowed to make demands from them? Are you scared of big bad Osama, kid?
:)
Why you negate Muck? They are allowed to make demands from you, yet you are not allowed to make demands from them? Are you scared of big bad Osama, kid?
:)
I used the verb "negate" to denote my lack of comprehension p-)
number nine
09-07-2007, 05:10 PM
How you don't comprehend? We can't cave in to their ridiculous demands, they are not tit for tat.
My bad. I misinterpreted your post.
nullterm
09-07-2007, 05:17 PM
Ambassadors from Muslim countries have indicated that they intend to present the Swedish prime minister with a list of demands when they meet for talks on Friday.
Are they talking with diplomats or hostage negotiators? Seriously, they need to start keeping their laws to themselves in their own countries. And European counties need to stop being so PC and start standing up for themselves.
number nine
09-07-2007, 05:18 PM
@Muck
No problem.
And Christianity don't ask we have all our life to repent for eternal sin of our progenitors until we are delivered in afterlife?
Christianity is more centered around death than Islam.
Just like Christianity can be interpreted in backward and fundamentalistic way, Islam can too.
Problem is backward interpretations are common in Islam. They need to be outlawed by Islamic priests themselves at last!
You are assuming that I am a Christian, or that I think higher of the Christian faith than of others.
The main difference is that while a supermajority of Christians have woken up and realised that stoning, witch burning, persecution and blasphemy paragraphs don't belong in this world, the Muslims have not. There is talk of the 'silent majority' that oppose this. What good is a silent majority if it is willing to simply look on and shrug as the so-called 'vocal minority' of violence condoners continue their crusade against people they hate and wish to subjugate? The so-called 'silent majority' are condoning these people by saying NOTHING and doing NOTHING, that 'majority' is completely irrelevant. I'd rather call it the 'indifferent majority'.
helomech
09-07-2007, 05:28 PM
Sooo,does anyone have an image of this so-called offensive cartoon?
You know,sh1t like this just kills me:a group of people getting wrapped up around the axle over a cartoon!Everywhere else in the world religious,political,famous ,non-famous people are made fun of but you don't see them making a list of demands because of it
I fail to see why it should be related to scare to simply have a different opinion on how a constitution should work.
People who prefer the silence of tyranny usually fear the consequences of freedom. There's really no other reason.
In fact rather your point of view is related to scare, a permanent fear that one may come to steal your rights and freedoms...
What freedom? Our consitution for one is more or less a carbon copy of the social democratic party programme. Secondly I hope you realize the contradiction in you claiming paranoia over something you supported in the first part of your post.
Being a democrat is not the same as wanting freedom of speech for yourself, being a democrat means wanting freedom of speech for your enemies.
People who prefer the silence of tyranny usually fear the consequences of freedom. There's really no other reason.
Here it is forbidden to deny Nazi crimes. Would you label Germany as a tyranny? In fact we have one of the most liberal constitutions worldwide...
What freedom? Our consitution for one is more or less a carbon copy of the social democratic party programme.
To be honest I have no idea how Sweden's constitution looks like.
Secondly I hope you realize the contradiction in you claiming paranoia over something you supported in the first part of your post.
No, I don't spot a contradiction there.
Being a democrat is not wanting freedom of speech for yourself, being a democrat means wanting freedom of speech for your enemies.
No doubt, that is noble. Only I must be the contrary of a Democrat then, whatsoever that may be.
Those are the two different opinions I was talking about. Democracy needs borders and limitations to don't become Arnarchy, that is the point of view I do advocate. No one can have unlimited rights because then he can reach the point where he does violate the rights of another person.
number nine
09-07-2007, 06:00 PM
Here it is forbidden to deny Nazi crimes. Would you label Germany as a tyranny? In fact we have one of the most liberal constitutions worldwide...Apples and oranges.
Denying Nazi crimes despite overwhelming evidence they happened is glorification of racist tyranny.
Denying Nazi crimes despite overwhelming evidence they happened is glorification of racist tyranny.
Sure it is, whats the point? Glorification of Nazi crimes is prohibited by law here, de facto a limitation of freedom of speech, and some people, probably Thor as well, regard this as undemocratic.
cbreedon
09-07-2007, 07:12 PM
there is a distinction between freedom of speech and hate speech
Actually there is not.... Freedom of Speech is like being pregnant. You are or you aren't. There is no just a little bit.
If you place restrictions on speech then you don't have freedom of speech. simple.....
number nine
09-07-2007, 07:36 PM
Sure it is, whats the point?That law is not tyrannical and doesn't silence you. Freedom of speech doesn't mean that there is no truth. And also freedom of speech cannot be absolute.
In fact we have one of the most liberal constitutions worldwide...
...and the Trabant was one of the best cars worldwide.
No, I don't spot a contradiction there.
You don't have to, I explained it to you.
Democracy needs borders and limitations to don't become Arnarchy
Here's the fear I was refering to. Believing that democracy would bring anarchy to your country is simply an irrational fear.
because then he can reach the point where he does violate the rights of another person.
"Freedom means learning to deal with being offended."
Hessian
09-07-2007, 09:09 PM
I worked in Sweden for the US goverment for one and half years, the Swedish people are a very nice people. The Swedish Goverment bends with the wind, they will also make agreements with " groups ", they tell the average Swedish citizen little of this.
I would not be surprised if demands were made and then reported as not. My observation should not be taken as a negative on the Swedish people, please don't take it as such. Just like we Yanks have been asked to accept comments from the good people of Sweden.
...and the Trabant was one of the best cars worldwide.
Huh, funny.
Uhm, no it's not.
You don't have to, I explained it to you.
Well, than I still fail to see why.
Here's the fear I was refering to. Believing that democracy would bring anarchy to your country is simply an irrational fear.
It is no fear. Democracy is Democracy and Anarchy is Anarchy. If we want to live in Democracy we must prevent it from becoming Anarchy. It is just a matter of logic, so if we want to live in Anarchy we can twiddle our thumbs.
Of course it is something like fear. But you cannot how credibly that the point you advocate is devoid of fear. I fear someone might abuse his rights at my cost whilst you fear someone might take your rights.
"Freedom means learning to deal with being offended."
What's about persons who abuse their granted rights to do everything to abolish them?
What do you want to do with them? A hate monger for example who demands abolition of the constitutional state? Are his efforts protected by freedom of speech? Do you want him to continue until the first of his auditors buy 1500 pounds of explosives to blow up something in your country?
martinexsquaddie
09-08-2007, 04:59 AM
theres always a limit
to free speach
trying going to a mall and shouting theres a bomb if you don't believe me
A friend of mine did something like this once...When we waited for a train on a railway station in the city of Augsburg. He already was quite drunk and complained about the dullness of all the others who were waiting with us and he now would make them to clear off. No sooner said than done, he shouted "Allah Akbar".
Well the people on the platform weren't really running but they were quite 'surprised' in the first moment.
Later he was sentenced to fifty hours of community work.
And I agree, there is a limit and there must be a limit. It's as simple as that.
Weasel
09-08-2007, 08:03 AM
Here it is forbidden to deny Nazi crimes. Would you label Germany as a tyranny? In fact we have one of the most liberal constitutions worldwide...
According to Thor Germany is the most undemocratic country worldwide. ;-)
PS: And he has a fable for conspiracy theories about socialists taking over the world. p-)
According to Thor Germany is the most undemocratic country worldwide. ;-)
PS: And he has a fable for conspiracy theories about socialists taking over the world. p-)
Then I guess I better cut it out now because this debate will lead to nothing.
But nobody is allowed to insult the Trabant! :bash: p-)
Institutionalized
09-08-2007, 08:43 AM
Sooo,does anyone have an image of this so-called offensive cartoon?
You know,sh1t like this just kills me:a group of people getting wrapped up around the axle over a cartoon!Everywhere else in the world religious,political,famous ,non-famous people are made fun of but you don't see them making a list of demands because of it
If you want to see it google some thing like "Mohammed Cartoon." I've already seen it and even though it looks pretty benign, I wouldn't want to risk posting it here.
IronFinn
09-08-2007, 03:05 PM
You are assuming that I am a Christian, or that I think higher of the Christian faith than of others.
The main difference is that while a supermajority of Christians have woken up and realised that stoning, witch burning, persecution and blasphemy paragraphs don't belong in this world, the Muslims have not. There is talk of the 'silent majority' that oppose this. What good is a silent majority if it is willing to simply look on and shrug as the so-called 'vocal minority' of violence condoners continue their crusade against people they hate and wish to subjugate? The so-called 'silent majority' are condoning these people by saying NOTHING and doing NOTHING, that 'majority' is completely irrelevant. I'd rather call it the 'indifferent majority'.
x 2. It would be about time to see some news of the muslim countries where people hold demonstrations agains those who advocate violence when ever these things happen carrying banderoles like "its just a cartoon" and "we don´t need to behead, just discuss".
The leader of Al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Omar al-Baghdadi, in a video recording offers $100,000 for the murder of the artist Lars Vilks and $50,000 for the murder of the chief editor of the newspaper in which the sketch was published in.
Lars Vilks responded by saying that he thinks the sum is too low and that he should be worth more than that.
(Swedish links)
http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=147&a=692739
http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=147&a=692746
These barbarians.
But the reaction of that chief editor is pretty cool.
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