Finnish Defence Minister: "Russia is the main threat for Finnish security"

[Beast]

Häkämies's Washington Speech Signals New Tack

In Washington on Thursday, Finnish Defence Minister Jyri Häkämies delivered an unusually strongly-worded speech on Russia -- which he called Finland's most important security priority by virtue of its geographic position.
Speaking at an influential think-tank, the Center for Strategic and International Studies, the Defence Minister minced no words on the resurgence of Finland's eastern neighbour, saying "the very survival of the Finnish nation is at stake".

"The three most important security challenges from Finland's point of view are Russia, Russia and Russia," he said.

Häkämies based his view on the country's energy wealth, noting Russia will become much stronger on the world stage in the next decade.

New Pro-Washington Slant

His comments reflect a new tack in Finnish foreign policy since the conservative National Coalition Party joined the government in April. In contrast to the Social Democrats who dominated foreign policy for many years, the Conservatives are much more oriented toward Washington and NATO.

Häkämies did not directly say Finland should join the alliance but suggested it, saying "Geopolitics is back and its back with force and (those) who have the responsible for Finland's national security must make their own decisions."

However, he said it would be wrong to consider Russia as a threat to Finnish security. Häkämies added that it is the responsibility of other nations to persuade Russia to be a responsible player and partner in Europe.

Häkämies' trip to Washington follows a summer visit by his fellow conservative, Foreign Minister Ilkka Kanerva, who met with Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice at the White House.

On Thursday Häkämies is scheduled to meet with his US counterpart, Robert Gates, who has just returned from a visit to Iraq with President George Bush.

http://www.yle.fi/news/left/id69205.html

good thing that our defence minister is starting to see the light.

[number nine]

OMG will they learn to not say nonsense at last!

Look, any new Winter war, is out of question, Europe and U.S.A. would react. This just damages relations with Russia.

[Litti]

Our defence minister is a clown.

He actually complained how the last government was not sucking up to USA at every possible opportunity like he would like it to be. But he sees no double standards when it comes to complaining about Russia.

[Flamming_Python]

Shame Finland is perceiving things this way, but politics is politics I guess.

"Very survival of the Finnish nation", "Russia, Russia and Russia"

All I can say is

:D

But then again Russia's polticians are also suspicious of outsiders.

[Litti]

Finland still has better relations with Russia than any other EU country, me thinks

[GromGrad]

If only all nations had this kind of threat to their survival as Finnland does the world would be a much better place. I can name a few countries that would love Russia as their enemy over the **** they got them selves into now.

[Kak]

While I have yet to hear a Finnish person on the internet or on TV or in real life talk about Russia in any other way other than "dislike" or more commonly a feeling of extreme superiority, I thought I remembered reading before that Finland has very good, respectful, and non-confrontational relations with Russia, is this true?

[kosse]

Nice provocative topic headline..unfortunately it seems Beast fabricated it himself and it's not true at all. Here's link to YLE article:

http://www.yle.fi/news/id69205.html

As for Häkämies' comments:


the very survival of the Finnish nation is at stakeIsn't it always the case when it comes to the national defence? At least for a small country it is. Admittedly it is very dramatical comment but it's also very easy use comments like this out of context.


The three most important security challenges from Finland's point of view are Russia, Russia and RussiaHere he is just telling the truth. What other challenges? Russia has always been a a challenge and that's how it's going to be. That doesn't mean that there can't be friendly relations. FFS, Häkämies even states that he doesn't see Russia as a threat to the Finnish security.

Finally, Häkämies' full speech at CSIS:
http://www.csis.org/component/option,com_csis_events/task,view/id,1361/
Judge yourselves.

[martinexsquaddie]

I always thought brazil was the main threat to finland:)

[Russian_dude]

Well obviously the only potential threat is from Russia, however tiny and ridiculous. I mean it's not like hordes of Danish hippies on bycicles would suddenly board their "drakkars" (read ferries with 24/7 alcohol license) and invade the coast of Finland.

[Flamming_Python]

Well obviously the only potential threat is from Russia, however tiny and ridiculous. I mean it's not like hordes of Danish hippies on bycicles would suddenly board their "drakkars" (read ferries with 24/7 alcohol license) and invade the coast of Finland.

Perhaps Finland's party will be crashed by Swedish bikini babes :)


While I have yet to hear a Finnish person on the internet or on TV or in real life talk about Russia in any other way other than "dislike" or more commonly a feeling of extreme superiority, I thought I remembered reading before that Finland has very good, respectful, and non-confrontational relations with Russia, is this true?

Every Finn I met in Russia always seemed to love the country. Every Finn I met anywhere else has been arrogant and had a dislike of Russia. Well I think we all know what's going on here :D

[Basillicus]

While I have yet to hear a Finnish person on the internet or on TV or in real life talk about Russia in any other way other than "dislike" or more commonly a feeling of extreme superiority, I thought I remembered reading before that Finland has very good, respectful, and non-confrontational relations with Russia, is this true?

Since WW2 official relations have been good like they should be with neighbouring countries, but I think the opinion of common people has always been more or less negative. History has proven that Russia cannot be trusted and it will take time before old fights are forgotten. After all there has been all kinds of skirmishes during the whole recorded history. But stuff that happened e.g. in WW2 don't touch young people anymore so much, so I'd say the future looks good unless Putin or his supporters do something stupid.


Well obviously the only potential threat is from Russia, however tiny and ridiculous. I mean it's not like hordes of Danish hippies on bycicles would suddenly board their "drakkars" (read ferries with 24/7 alcohol license) and invade the coast of Finland.

Exactly. We are surrounded by countries like Sweden, Norway, Estonia and Russia, and it should be clear for anyone that of course Russia is the only one that could be a military threat to Finland. It doesn't mean that we would expect them to attack us in the near future, but our defence forces should prepare for it anyway since that's why they exist.

[Freedom-Fries]

Russia is friends with radical Muslims
http://shop.wnd.com/store/images/items/B0870.jpg
Moves made to establish Islamic party in Finland
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Moves+made+to+establish+Islamic+party+in+Finland/1135230117842
Asked if the party wanted Sharia law to be implemented in Finland, Tammi said that such a move would be "fantastic"

[Basillicus]

Moves made to establish Islamic party in Finland
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Moves+made+to+establish+Islamic+party+in+Finland/1135230117842
Asked if the party wanted Sharia law to be implemented in Finland, Tammi said that such a move would be "fantastic"

We have a whole bunch of waco parties. There's commies, some nationalistic parties (read: nazis) etc. so it's difficult to see some islamic party as a threat. I suppose getting even one of their candidates trough is going to be next to impossible (provided that they can get those 5000 supporters first), and even if they succeed it doesn't affect ****.

[IronFinn]

newer mind.

[Solttu]

A direct quote from the minister's speach: "I think it would be a foolish – and mistaken – conclusion to draw that the new Russia will threaten Finland’s security. This is not the case." So, the minister didn't say that Russia is a threat to Finland, but he actually said the opposite. It seems that the title of this thread is somewhat misleading and provocative,

Here is a link to the entire speach:
http://www.defmin.fi/?661_m=3333&s=270

[Lokos]

Russia is friends with radical Muslims

... You are mistaken.

Lokos

[GazB]

which he called Finland's most important security priority by virtue of its geographic position.


So it is because of its geographic location that makes it a security priority. Therefore the only thing the Russians can do to improve the situation is to move away... which is not really an option, so they should realise there is no satisfying Finland and just not bother in the future. If they worried about every little country they shared a border with seeing Russia as their number one threat they would be walking on eggshells. Gladly they probably don't even give countries like Finland a second thought most of the time.

[Jii]

So it is because of its geographic location that makes it a security priority. Therefore the only thing the Russians can do to improve the situation is to move away... which is not really an option, so they should realise there is no satisfying Finland and just not bother in the future. If they worried about every little country they shared a border with seeing Russia as their number one threat they would be walking on eggshells. Gladly they probably don't even give countries like Finland a second thought most of the time.

Of course it's a security priority. It's not like our other neighbouring countries violate our airspace or patrol with their bombers, etc. Or should our security priority be in Sweden since they beat us at hockey every other time ? We have good relations to Russia, and hope it stays that way, but there's no point living in denial. And as for Russia trying to satisfy Finland, it's Finland who has been trying to keep Russia happy for the last sixty years. There's only so much a$$kissing one can do, be it for the EU, USA, Russia, or anyone else. In the meantime, both sides should keep their heads cool, and keep up the good relations.:hug:

[chuckster]

Finland has a right to be nervous.

Historically, Russia has not exactly been a good neighbor to have. They have this nasty habit of invading every country that borders them at one time or another. Can anyone think of a neighboring territory that Russia HASN'T invaded at one time in its history (except maybe Alaska)?

[Russian_dude]

Well, so has Sweden, invaded just about every neighbour many many times. Don't let the Ikea/Bang and Olufsen and ABBA fool you. Sweden invaded more countries then Germany. Poland was very militaristic too.

Oh, and US doesn't even have to be a neighbour to attack you as long as you don't proclaim unduying love for US "freedoms" and corporations.

[Xaito]

just another politician who tries to use the recent anti russian mood in the media to distinguish himself and win the favour of his target audience - he knows that his audience loves it and Russia doesn't really care.

[Kippari]

just another politician who tries to use the recent anti russian mood in the media to distinguish himself and win the favour of his target audience - he knows that his audience loves it and Russia doesn't really care.

You didn't bother to read the other posts did you? Even though he is clown he spoke the truth. Russia is our number one priority in security matters, there's just no point denying that. It's the most unstable of our neighbors and tbh terrorists don't give a rats ass about our country and there's only diminishing chance that we're going to be targeted by them anytime soon.

And what makes you think that the media is very anti-Russian here, have you perhaps read Finnish newspapers? Only negative things i've heard have been about the airspace violations couple of years ago and some problems with the customs services in Russia.

[Flamming_Python]

Finland has a right to be nervous.

Historically, Russia has not exactly been a good neighbor to have. They have this nasty habit of invading every country that borders them at one time or another. Can anyone think of a neighboring territory that Russia HASN'T invaded at one time in its history (except maybe Alaska)?

Can you think of a neighbouring territory that hasn't invaded Russia at one time or the other in its history (except maybe Alaska)?

Can you think of a neighbour of Germany that Germany hasn't invaded? Sweden? Ottomans? Can you think of a place in the world that Britain hasn't colonised or tried to colonise?

Russia hasn't been well behaved in the past, that much is true. But then again, neither has anyone else. Past is past, let's leave it at that.

[Thor]

Well, so has Sweden, invaded just about every neighbour many many times. Don't let the Ikea and ABBA fool you.
But we were the good guys.

I pointed out in some previous thread that we have good or excellent relations with all our former territories. Not really the case with Russia. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2533836&postcount=81

But nevertheless I don't see what the fuss is about. Sweden/Finland and Russia competed and fought during more than a thousand years over influence in the region. And of course Russia is the main security concern of Finland. Nothing new and nothing dramatic. Both Sweden and Finland have in fact rather good relations with Russia. Let's look to that and not some potential conflict in the future.

[Xaito]

You didn't bother to read the other posts did you? Even though he is clown he spoke the truth. Russia is our number one priority in security matters, there's just no point denying that. It's the most unstable of our neighbors and tbh terrorists don't give a rats ass about our country and there's only diminishing chance that we're going to be targeted by them anytime soon.

And what makes you think that the media is very anti-Russian here, have you perhaps read Finnish newspapers? Only negative things i've heard have been about the airspace violations couple of years ago and some problems with the customs services in Russia.

you didn't bother to read the article did you?
This man was giving his speech in Washington - he did it for an international audience and not for Finnish people.
There is no need to deny that Finlands most probable security concern is Russia just as much as there is no need to point it out (or deny that the probability for an all out invasion is very very low since the end of the cold war - you can see that fact reflected in the change of military doctrine for lots of european countries)

Also because he was giving his speech in Washington I think its irrelevant what stance towards Russia Finnish media has in general - I was talking about the anti Russian mood of some international news agencies in general (******* etc. who spread their BS all around the world)

[Flamming_Python]

But nevertheless I don't see what the fuss is about. Sweden/Finland and Russia competed and fought during more than a thousand years over influence in the region. And of course Russia is the main security concern of Finland. Nothing new and nothing dramatic. Both Sweden and Finland have in fact rather good relations with Russia. Let's look to that and not some potential conflict in the future.

x2

No reason for more bad blood. Time to rebuild and start over.

[M6hk]

But we were the good guys.


Looking it from here, I must vouch for this. The Swedish king is the only foreign ruler I know of under whose banners Est peasants rallied willingly (if the chroniclers of the time is to be trusted). Swedish rule is still referred to as the golden era and its early end is lamented. The proposal to honor Peter the Great here with a statue was met with immediate hostility and was one of the reasons for changes in legislation allowing government to stop these kinds of projects. On the other hand to this day we have one of our most prestiguous schools dedicated to Gustavus Adolphus and the victory at Narva by Karl XII is fondly remembered (despite his eventual failure to defend the realm leading to the end of golden era for us).

I am sure Swedes are not equally revered in all areas they've ruled, but they definitely are remembered as the good guys here (which definitely is not the case as regards Russians or Germans).

As to Häkämies comments, he was just stating the obvious. The only surprising issue about his statement was that after finlandization Finnish politicians are sort of expected to grovel before Russia, even though the need for this for Finland has long since disappeared it still raises some eyebrows when a Finnish politicians speaks his mind re: Russia. It was funny seeing the reaction on Finland to this. All the usual suspects telling how a minister should never fail to try and appease Russia (while of course at the same time work some form of condemnation of America and/or Israel into the speech)...

[Kippari]

Looking it from here, I must vouch for this. The Swedish king is the only foreign ruler I know of under whose banners Est peasants rallied willingly (if the chroniclers of the time is to be trusted). Swedish rule is still referred to as the golden era and its early end is lamented. The proposal to honor Peter the Great here with a statue was met with immediate hostility and was one of the reasons for changes in legislation allowing government to stop these kinds of projects. On the other hand to this day we have one of our most prestiguous schools dedicated to Gustavus Adolphus and the victory at Narva by Karl XII is fondly remembered (despite his eventual failure to defend the realm leading to the end of golden era for us).

I am sure Swedes are not equally revered in all areas they've ruled, but they definitely are remembered as the good guys here (which definitely is not the case as regards Russians or Germans).

As to Häkämies comments, he was just stating the obvious. The only surprising issue about his statement was that after finlandization Finnish politicians are sort of expected to grovel before Russia, even though the need for this for Finland has long since disappeared it still raises some eyebrows when a Finnish politicians speaks his mind re: Russia. It was funny seeing the reaction on Finland to this. All the usual suspects telling how a minister should never fail to try and appease Russia (while of course at the same time work some form of condemnation of America and/or Israel into the speech)...

Very good post. We feel mostly the same way about Swedes here in Finland.:hug:

[Crassus]

In my mind what Häkämies said is of course a fact. He is a minister of defense and the only military threat that Finland faces is Russia.
Other kind of threats e.g natural disasters, terrorism, immigration etc. are responsibility ministery of interior.

Russia is only secondary role in discussion that is going on in Finland. Discussion has more to do with a period of finlandization and post-soviet period. Local Finnish politicians are preparing (conservative party) to settle the scores...p-)

[Dif]

Hakamies is 100% right. Of course we all know: Enemy always comes from East. If enemy came from West, these are the russians who have outflanked us. But why saying obvious and thus putting at risk such a great work of many decades of using geographical location to the best of ability? Rightfully one says: sometimes it is better to keep the mouth shut...

[orange]

Well, so has Sweden, invaded just about every neighbour many many times. Don't let the Ikea/Bang and Olufsen and ABBA fool you. Sweden invaded more countries then Germany. Poland was very militaristic too.
...
Bang & Olufsen is actually Danish. What we do have instead are Volvo, SAAB and Ace of Base... p-)

[Guggenmauer]

If our enemy ever comes from the west it simply means that Russia has flanked us through Sweden.

[orange]

If our enemy ever comes from the west it simply means that Russia has flanked us through Sweden.
Hah! That's an old military saying here in Sweden.. :)

[Kippari]

My cousin once asked from a strategy trainer in the army why in all scenarios the enemy comes from the east. The trainer said: " How come I've never thought of that? Ofcourse the Russians could outflank us through Norway and attack us from the rear!"rofl

[M6hk]

In our maneuvers the enemy sometimes comes from the South - then they flank us through Latvia. BTW our OPFOR is called Green, not Yellow as in Finland - as per NATO standard it is still marked with red on the maps.

There's an old saying here "from east come only cold winds and empty train cars".