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View Full Version : ACC orders command wide stand-down 9/14/07



RECON DOC
09-12-2007, 02:18 AM
ACC orders command wide stand-down Friday




By Bruce Rolfsen - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Sep 10, 2007 17:38:42 EDT
On Sept. 14, flight lines will be very quiet at Air Combat Command bases.
The entire command — about 100,000 active-duty airmen — is standing down training flights and many other operations as part of a command-wide safety day.
Command boss Gen. Ronald Keys ordered the Sept. 14 safety standdown in the wake of the Aug. 30 nuclear incident at Minot Air Force Base, N.D., in which six cruise missiles armed with nuclear warheads were loaded onto a B-52H and then flown to Barksdale Air Force Base, La., without anyone on the ground or bomber realizing the nuclear weapons were on the plane. It was not until the B-52H was parked at Barksdale that ground crews discovered the cruise missiles were carrying real warheads.
Command spokesman Maj. Tom Crosson said wing commanders would determine how their units review operations and safety procedures and checklists.
Just how serious Keys takes the lapse of regulations at Minot is reflected in the fact that the safety stand-down is the first commandwide safety day in recent memory. In the past, the command has singled out specific types of aircraft for safety days and in 1997 the Department of Defense held a department wide safety review day.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2007/09/airforce_aircombatcommand_standdown_070807/




B-52 mistakenly flies with nukes aboard



By Michael Hoffman - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Sep 10, 2007 9:03:17 EDT
A B-52 bomber mistakenly loaded with six nuclear warheads flew from Minot Air Force Base, N.D., to Barksdale Air Force Base, La., on Aug. 30, resulting in an Air Force-wide investigation, according to three officers who asked not to be identified because they were not authorized to discuss the incident.
The B-52 was loaded with Advanced Cruise Missiles, part of a Defense Department effort to decommission 400 of the ACMs. But the nuclear warheads should have been removed at Minot before being transported to Barksdale, the officers said. The missiles were mounted onto the pylons of the bomber’s wings.
DISCUSS

How did this happen? (http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1559956)
Advanced Cruise Missiles carry a W80-1 warhead with a yield of 5 to 150 kilotons and are specifically designed for delivery by B-52 strategic bombers.
Air Force spokesman Lt. Col. Ed Thomas said the transfer was safely conducted and the weapons were in Air Force custody and control at all times.
However, the mistake was not discovered until the B-52 landed at Barksdale, which left the warheads unaccounted for during the approximately 3 1/2 hour flight between the two bases, the officers said.
An investigation headed by Maj. Gen. Douglas Raaberg, director of Air and Space Operations at Air Combat Command Headquarters, was launched immediately to find the cause of the mistake and figure out how it could have been prevented, Thomas said.
Air Force officials wouldn’t officially specify whether nuclear weapons were involved, in accordance with long-standing Defense Department policy regarding nuclear munitions, Thomas said. However, the three officers close to the situation did confirm the warheads were nuclear.
Officials at Minot immediately conducted an inventory of its nuclear weapons after the oversight was discovered, and Thomas said he could confirm that all remaining nuclear weapons at Minot are accounted for.
“Air Force standards are very exacting when it comes to munitions handling,” he said. “The weapons were always in our custody and there was never a danger to the American public.”
At no time was there a risk for a nuclear detonation, even if the B-52 crashed on its way to Barksdale, said Steve Fetter, a former Defense Department official who worked on nuclear weapons policy in 1993-94. A crash could ignite the high explosives associated with the warhead, and possibly cause a leak of the plutonium, but the warheads’ elaborate safeguards would prevent a nuclear detonation from occurring, he said.
“The main risk would have been the way the Air Force responded to any problems with the flight because they would have handled it much differently if they would have known nuclear warheads were onboard,” he said.
The risk of the warheads falling into the hands of rogue nations or terrorists was minimal since the weapons never left the United States, according to Fetter and Michael O’Hanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, an independent research and policy think tank in Washington, D.C.
The crews involved with the mistaken load at the 5th Bomb Wing at Minot have been temporarily decertified from performing their duties involving munitions pending corrective actions or additional training, Thomas said.
Air Combat Command will have a command-wide mission stand down Sept. 14 to review their procedures in response to this oversight, he said.
“The Air Force takes its mission to safeguard weapons seriously,” he said. “No effort will be spared to ensure that the matter is thoroughly and completely investigated.”


http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/09/marine_nuclear_B52_070904w/




Are they kidding?! All the redundant safety protocols and they just happened to load live nukes by mistake? They were just accidentally drawn out of the storage bunkers and bolted to the pylons of a B52? They're trying to say that the ground crews and pilots had no idea? Bull sh*t.
Those boys know their job, they're the best in the world. They know damned well the difference between a live nuke, dummies and conventional ordinance and they would not have loaded them without orders.

The US Airforce orders Northcom to stand down on September 14th. Northcom is the command that is responsible for guarding the United States. They decide to do it now with all the increased chatter about terrorist threats and the OBL tape? And TWO WEEKS AFTER the incident?

WTF is happening here? This seems very, very, very wrong.

Shellshock1918
09-12-2007, 10:34 AM
I agree, its very shady.

If something does happen, it will be used as a justification for us to bomb Iran.

DB-ERAUPilot
09-12-2007, 12:26 PM
kinda odd that they'd have the ENTIRE command to stand down instead of just Minot AFB itself....

Snipa
09-12-2007, 02:25 PM
Don't these nukes have somekind of security around them, I take it if they were loaded onto aircraft with out anybody knowing they could also of been taken by off base by anybody? John Travolta wasn't seen in the area was he:-D??

PHOECAS
09-12-2007, 02:26 PM
Here is an interesting story.


Barksdale Missile Number Six deserves far more public attention than it's received to date. Missile Number Six is potentially the major story of at least this year.

http://geronimomanifesto.blogspot.com/

*** I in no way vouch for this information and cannot confirm it's authenticity. I saw it on Digg and decided it would be good for debate. ***

--PHOECAS

ed316
09-12-2007, 02:28 PM
I agree, its very shady.

If something does happen, it will be used as a justification for us to bomb Iran.


Take off the tin foil hat, son.

Shellshock1918
09-12-2007, 03:04 PM
Take off the tin foil hat, son.
Stop drinking the kool-aid, woman.


I'm not proposing a conspiracy here, but there are people in the administration looking for an excuse to go to war with Iran. It is their philosophical belief that it is our duty to remake the middle east to suit America's needs through force.

RECON DOC
09-12-2007, 07:30 PM
I agree, its very shady.

If something does happen, it will be used as a justification for us to bomb Iran.

I'm not sure about that, but Barksdale AFAIK is the base used as a jump off point for some Middle East air operations and they are talking about using them on Iran. That's just plain crazy.


kinda odd that they'd have the ENTIRE command to stand down instead of just Minot AFB itself....

Especially since fighters don't carry nukes.


Don't these nukes have somekind of security around them, I take it if they were loaded onto aircraft with out anybody knowing they could also of been taken by off base by anybody? John Travolta wasn't seen in the area was he:-D??

There are multiple security/safety redundancies and protocols before you can even stand in the same building with them, let alone strap one to a bomber.

Zoomie
09-12-2007, 08:17 PM
Especially since fighters don't carry nukes.

Actually they can. The F-15, F-16, and F/A-18 all are capable of carrying and deploying the B61 and B83 nuclear bombs that are still in the US inventory.

RECON DOC
09-12-2007, 08:29 PM
Actually they can. The F-15, F-16, and F/A-18 all are capable of carrying and deploying the B61 and B83 nuclear bombs that are still in the US inventory.

Thanks for filling me in, but it doesn't seem likely that they would be even close to accidentally loading one up. Especially since their mission is to provide air cover for the entire U.S. and not for making nuke bomb sorties in or near the U.S. It just doesn't make sense to leave us wide open like that.

giggler
09-12-2007, 08:58 PM
They need to do this just so that some numbnuts get the message do the job right or get. A stand once in awhile will do some good.

noname
09-12-2007, 10:24 PM
Yeah but I think they could stagger these knuckle rapping sessions out a little bit. It is assinine this day and age to have the entire north American air defense stand down.

RECON DOC
09-12-2007, 10:25 PM
Yeah but I think they could stagger these knuckle rapping sessions out a little bit. It is assinine this day and age to have the entire north American air defense stand down.

Exactly right.

shocker1
09-12-2007, 10:27 PM
They need to do this just so that some numbnuts get the message do the job right or get. A stand once in awhile will do some good.
So do you really think these weapons are laying around a bunch of numbnuts on some pallets? "Hey Snuffy them their make for good training, grab them pertty things".Those weapons do not see a human without someone with a Star on their shoulder knowing about it. There are so many checks and procedures there is no way I buy this story.

Armytimes is reporting a scapegoat but I imagine someone with knowledge saw these weapons being moved about and blew a whistle. Or a purposeful leak to make Iran wonder what the hell we are up to. Either way it is no accident IMO. Why stand down Air Defense Ops? Who comes up with this stuff? Do they think we are mindless robots?

Robbee
09-12-2007, 10:29 PM
Yeah but I think they could stagger these knuckle rapping sessions out a little bit. It is assinine this day and age to have the entire north American air defense stand down.

The air defense question was answered in the earlier thread on this topic.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=119902

RECON DOC
09-12-2007, 10:30 PM
So do you really think these weapons are laying around a bunch of numbnuts on some pallets? "Hey Snuffy them their make for good training, grab them pertty things".Those weapons do not see a human without someone with a Star on their shoulder knowing about it. There are so many checks and procedures there is no way I buy this story.

Armytimes is reporting a scapegoat but I imagine someone with knowledge saw these weapons being moved about and blew a whistle. Or a purposeful leak to make Iran wonder what the hell we are up to. Either way it is no accident IMO. Why stand down Air Defense Ops? Who comes up with this stuff? Do they think we are mindless robots?

Apparently so. :|

RECON DOC
09-12-2007, 10:34 PM
The air defense question was answered in the earlier thread on this topic.

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=119902

There is no clear answer in that thread, only supposition.

shocker1
09-12-2007, 10:34 PM
If I was writing cover up, I would have done better. This would have been a live weapon training for the cold war nostalgia and detection training for anti-terror operations. Zing! Not ooopps sorry we let them out the screen door.

If buy some extreme ignorance this is true and is an accident then some real heads need to roll here, not grounding air defense.

Robbee
09-12-2007, 10:44 PM
There is no clear answer in that thread, only supposition.

The Air National Guard has total responsibility for air defense of the entire United States. They aren't standing down on 9/14.

RECON DOC
09-12-2007, 10:52 PM
The Air National Guard has total responsibility for air defense of the entire United States. They aren't standing down on 9/14.


ANG is within the command of ACC.



More than 105,000 active-duty members and civilians make up ACC's work force. When mobilized, more than 60,000 members of the Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve, along with about 859 aircraft, are assigned to ACC. In total, ACC and ACC-gained units fly more than 2,000 aircraft.


http://www.centaf.af.mil/

Zoomie
09-12-2007, 11:35 PM
ANG is within the command of ACC.
http://www.centaf.af.mil/
If you only read your own article, you'll see that the stand down doesn't affect the ANG:

By Bruce Rolfsen - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Sep 10, 2007 17:38:42 EDT
On Sept. 14, flight lines will be very quiet at Air Combat Command bases.
The entire command — about 100,000 active-duty airmen — is standing down training flights and many other operations as part of a command-wide safety day.
And look:

The Air National Guard as we know it today is a separate reserve component of the United States Air Force.
Source (http://www.goang.com/ourworld/history/)

RECON DOC
09-12-2007, 11:49 PM
[quote=Sgt Sniper;2760357]If you only read your own article, you'll see that the stand down doesn't affect the ANG:

I did read the article.


The entire command — about 100,000 active-duty airmen
When they are flying under the command of ACC they are active.
It does not say regular air force. The entire command means everyone under it.



And look: The Air National Guard as we know it today is a separate reserve component of the United States Air Force.
Source (http://www.goang.com/ourworld/history/)
They are seperate, but they are still under the command of ACC.

Ordie
09-13-2007, 12:41 AM
Safety Standowns were common in the USN. We had them twice a year, where we spend the day attending lectures about safety, opsec, safe driving, ****** harrasment, venerial diseases, and where not to go on Liberty (Never tell a sailor where not to go)

If there a a string of mishaps fleetwide, the entire fleet stands down to reflect and retrain.

Of course several units are on standby for quick response.

RECON DOC
09-13-2007, 12:52 AM
Safety Standowns were common in the USN. We had them twice a year, where we spend the day attending lectures about safety, opsec, safe driving, ****** harrasment, venerial diseases, and where not to go on Liberty (Never tell a sailor where not to go)

If there a a string of mishaps fleetwide, the entire fleet stands down to reflect and retrain.

Of course several units are on standby for quick response.

I hope that's the case, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that. I honestly wish someone could find something that does, because I can't. I would feel much more at ease about the whole thing.

Ordie
09-13-2007, 01:26 AM
[/b]I hope that's the case, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that. I honestly wish someone could find something that does, because I can't. I would feel much more at ease about the whole thing.

The guys who are standby or in the air for some reason, usually have a make-up day for safety standown.