University Student Tasered at John Kerry Event

[Polygon]

http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=157250

An eccentric university student was apparently tasered at a John Kerry speaking event after getting a bit carried away with his questioning.

Personally, I thought the individual was being a bit over dramatic but they probably should have allowed him to at least get one question answered before being asked to yield to other people.

When you deal with people who behave like this, the best thing to do is to approach them in a calm manner to avoid incidents like these.

However, it is funny to note that this is probably the most excited anyone has been at a John Kerry event http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/images/smilies/laughing.gif

[Chulo]

if it were at a republican event , people would have let the guy go on and on and on

[Ratamacue]

Regardless of whether they were right or wrong in removing him, he was being a dramatic little bitch. He wouldn't have had to have been handled like that if he'd just been civil and not made a spectacle of himself.

[Merfeller]

Way to take charge there, John Kerry. He could have stopped them by being a bit more assertive, I think. Also, those campus cops totally overstepped their role there. Even though the student was being very obnoxious, the tasering was completely unnecessary because they had, what? Six officers there? Bull****. And how about some support from those lames in the audience? A fellow student is being dragged out of a political event and is tasered in front of the entire auditorium. How about raising some hell? At least one had the balls to follow with his camera phone.

[Herrmannek]

You don't interrupt someone trying to get to the logic conclusions. His mind is buisy doing other stuff, unexpected, uncontrolled, low level reaction may happen. Best way is to let guy finish... As a academic BTDT I tell you guys, reactions may vary, shame there wasn't camera cell phones in my time...

[Pook2]

Way to take charge there, John Kerry. He could have stopped them by being a bit more assertive, I think. Also, those campus cops totally overstepped their role there. Even though the student was being very obnoxious, the tasering was completely unnecessary because they had, what? Six officers there? Bull****. And how about some support from those lames in the audience? A fellow student is being dragged out of a political event and is tasered in front of the entire auditorium. How about raising some hell? At least one had the balls to follow with his camera phone.

Are you a cop?

[little icebear]

I hope he gets to sue them like there was no tomorrow... :)

[mas-36]

It did look as if he did take a swing at one of the security guys at on point. I don't have speakers attached now, what was the kid asking anyway?

[Merfeller]

Are you a cop?


LOL! Let's say I had a few run ins with campus cops during my day and kind of admire hellraisers on campus. Students shouldn't be complacent, imo. Politicians get plenty of softball questions on the TV talk shows. Why not rattle their cage when they come to a college campus, where ideas are supposed to be freely exchanged?

[Polygon]

It did look as if he did take a swing at one of the security guys at on point. I don't have speakers attached now, what was the kid asking anyway?

The student was asking why in light of the voter fraud in the 2004 election that Kerry conceded to Bush. He also began rambling on about Kerry being in the same "Skull and Bones" organization Bush was a member of at Yale.

I believe Kerry responded by saying that not as much was known at the time to pursue the "voter fraud" issue further.

[Pook2]

LOL! Let's say I had a few run ins with campus cops during my day and kind of admire hellraisers on campus. Students shouldn't be complacent, imo. Politicians get plenty of softball questions on the TV talk shows. Why not rattle their cage when they come to a college campus, where ideas are supposed to be freely exchanged?

That wasn't my point, but its ok. I just wanted to know if you had any idea about their SOP's or ROE, but it seems like you don't.

[Merfeller]

That wasn't my point, but its ok. I just wanted to know if you had any idea about their SOP's or ROE, but it seems like you don't.

Nah, I don't know how they're supposed to deal with students acting up. That just seemed over the top. I'm just assuming that campus cops at state colleges in Florida are actual police officers. Do you have any idea if what they were doing was SOP?

[Pook2]

Nah, I don't know how they're supposed to deal with students acting up. That just seemed over the top. I'm just assuming that campus cops at state colleges in Florida are actual police officers. Do you have any idea if what they were doing was SOP?

No i'm not a cop either. But I am going to make an ass out of you and me and assume that even if there were six officers, a taser is a much more orderly option and a much less risky option than a hand to hand confrontation.

[Merfeller]

No i'm not a cop either. But I am going to make an ass out of you and me and assume that even if there were six officers, a taser is a much more orderly option and a much less risky option than a hand to hand confrontation.

Agreed. Probably easier for the officers to handle him, as any motivation to fight will leave his body once those taser ****gs hit his skin, but it'll be interesting to see how the university spins it. The cops definitely made it more than it had to be, especially with all the camera phones and such. As much as I admire students who speak their mind, I think his question pretty much went off course once he mentioned Skull and Bones, lol.

[Polygon]

As much as I admire students who speak their mind, I think his question pretty much went off course once he mentioned Skull and Bones, lol.

Yeah, I agree, he probably should have ended after the whole voter fraud thing and then asked the rest of his questions if he could once Kerry responded.

[Chulo]

the officers have no idea what the guy may plan to do or have on him, and its better to take him down than be shot or stabbed or risk the safety of eveyone else around.. better be safe than sorry. He shouldnt have resisted.. that a duh

and dont down play campus security.. i know at my university we have a few 9/11 vets and WOT vets

[GrinchWSLG]

No i'm not a cop either. But I am going to make an ass out of you and me and assume that even if there were six officers, a taser is a much more orderly option and a much less risky option than a hand to hand confrontation.

I don't think this situation was worth the risk to the person's life.

[Hollis]

I guess two things, first, I think the cops tried to do the best they could under the situation. The guy arrested seemed to not be all there.


Second if this was GW speaking, this even would have made national news, over and over again.

[Calanen]

Second if this was GW speaking, this even would have made national news, over and over again.

Yes, the headline would have been 'President's goons overreact and use potentially lethal force to deal with polite question from a reasonable person.'

[Hauser]

I don't think this situation was worth the risk to the person's life.

Unless the person has a heart condition (pretty rare for a 20 year oold student) or is on drugs (in which case it is his own damn fault) I didn't think that there was much danger of death from tasers?

In this case, it didn't even shut him up, let alone hurt him in any serious way. Loved his response to being shocked: "OW! OW! OW!".

Also, why do people call for help when they are being arrested? Do they think that members of the public will rescue them or what?

[Thor]

The underlying problem is that two police officers with no authority whatsoever try to escort the student out but miserably fails, which escalates the whole situation.

[Polygon]

In this case, it didn't even shut him up, let alone hurt him in any serious way. Loved his response to being shocked: "OW! OW! OW!".

Also, why do people call for help when they are being arrested? Do they think that members of the public will rescue them or what?

Actually, this incident reminds me a bit of that one where a student refuses to leave a computer lab shouting "Patriot Act!, etc, etc" and gets tasered with pretty much the same response.

[JJC]

Can someone explain what law did he break to be escorted out? He did sound like a typical nut job, but I didn't see how he disrupted the speech or showed aggression when he was asking questions.

[gaijinsamurai]

I do think the cops overreacted. At the same time, I don't feel bad about the kid getting tasered, just for being a little bitch. There's a lot more little college punks I'd love to see get that too.
But, the cops showed a lack of confidence and experience in handling him like they did. in my opinion, they should have had a little more patience with him, even if he was annoying.

[PoGo]

Wow this is some great publicity for UF.

[onefast93z28]

In Florida, Tasers can be used on people who don't comply (unlike New Jersey where using a Taser constitutes deadly force). Regardless of why he was being escorted out (being a college event the college can decide to boot anyone it pleases), he escalated the situation by resisting and trying to get away.

I don't know UF campus police's use of force policy, but I'm sure the Officers actions will be looked into.

According too several news sources, he was going on for about 5 minutes and was asked several times to stop speaking, they eventually killed his mic which is why he is yelling in the video. Gotta remember video/pictures never tell the whole story.

[Polygon]

http://break.com/index/student-tasered-at-john-kerry-speech.html

Just ran across this "footage" taken using a cell phone. Offers a different vantage point for those interested.

[Alpheus]

"Help, help, I'm being repressed!!"

I felt sorry for the guy until I watched it again and noticed his last question was some crap about Kerry and Bush being in the Skull and Bones secret society. Wacko.

[Polygon]

It's safe to say the guy had some issues, definitely quite a rant he had going before the campus police decided to pull the plug. Almost like he was just sputtering out theories before he was silenced.

[EvanL]

The guy was a complete nutter and deserved to be arrested for causing a public disturbance. But the cops tasered him when he was already in restraints. That was over the line.

[kitatatsumi]

Wow this is some great publicity for UF.

here is a link to the article in a local college newspaper.

http://www.alligator.org/

I agree this guy was a bit of a goof ball, i know his type.
"I am in college, I can do anything I want"
But if being a goof ball is a crime, many of us would be in jail.....this isn't the floor of the Senate. This is a question and answer session at a publicly funded university where his tuition dollars have been used to pay John Kerry to speak. This is why they have speakers at Universities.
I dont see why he shouldn't be allowed to ask some pointed and heated questions as long as he didnt threaten anyne. In fact Kerry wanted to answer, there was no danger.

GO Gators.

[snoddy]

some campus cops are actual cops... were they?

some col. kid had "President wish full" kerry, on stage and started drilling him and got alittle excited and got escorted out...

call in the Nat'l Guard.....

[Gringo]

That was funny to watch. I loved his line towards the end 'does anyone want to follow along to make sure they don't kill me?'

[Superking]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5867/200pxurllr0.jpg

"I'm gonna get 24th century on his ass"

[futurepilot2004]

The lack of reaction from the other students is insane. If the police here had used that kind of force on a student for what was really just a stupid rant, there probably would have been a riot.

[Herrmannek]

The lack of reaction from the other students is insane. If the police here had used that kind of force on a student for what was really just a stupid rant, there probably would have been a riot.

We don't even have police, security guards no nothing on our Uni. Just a guy to hand the keys and close the doors at night.. An yes public should ask guards to let him finish. This was academy after all. You don't ask 3 syllabic questions and get one syllabic answers here. Kerry even I don't like him, could score easily replying to the guy's question.

[themacedonian]

I remember a scene on TV when that women was trying to ask the Russian president a question for the Kursk disaster and she got silenced with a needle.

This guy did not present any danger and John Kerry could have laughed off the question.

If this can happen in America as it did on the video then democracy is simply dead in the USA.

[themacedonian]

We don't even have police, security guards no nothing on our Uni. Just a guy to hand the keys and close the doors at night.. An yes public should ask guards to let him finish. This was academy after all. You don't ask 3 syllabic questions and get one syllabic answers here. Kerry even I don't like him, could score easily replying to the guy's question.

I have attended 6 years of University in Sydney Australia and I never saw a policemen EVER on campus. There was one security guy at the entrance to the parking lot in a box. We practically spent days and nights in there and problems what so ever. I have seen universities in Macedonia and Serbia and there is no police or any major problems. I really don't understand what is going on in the US. Weird society.

[Herrmannek]

democracy is dead on USA campuses... Its no secret most schools have heir strong agenda and if you don't fit in you are out. Democracy moved to internetz and is thriving there...

As for no Police in schools. Here schools have autonomy, and every time police wants to enter building* it has to have permit from the Rector. Maybe with exception of the crime in progress but I've seen police on my school only twice. And always because some fellow student started to cheat on eBay or hacked someones money using schools computers.

[Hauser]

Do universities in america have their own police forces then? I go to Uni at Imperial College London, and only police I've ever seen there are the MOD police that guard the underground MOD labs. On a side note, I don't suppose anyone here know what they are doing down there?

[PanzerMaster]

I have attended 6 years of University in Sydney Australia and I never saw a policemen EVER on campus. There was one security guy at the entrance to the parking lot in a box. We practically spent days and nights in there and problems what so ever. I have seen universities in Macedonia and Serbia and there is no police or any major problems. I really don't understand what is going on in the US. Weird society.

Maybe during a public event (like a speech by Kerry) police is a requirement. Here in Italy on manifestation you need an ispection, for example, by the firefighter. Bigger events needs ambulances and police off course.

But if you are referring to the presence of police or, best, private security guards in campus... well I don't know if it is a common sight on US universities.

[Pook2]

Yes, most campuses have their own police force. Even here at VMI with only 1400 students we have a small police force. I guess we're so inferior to everyone else because we need police forces. Last time I checked I didn't see any kids killing over 30 other people on your campuses.

[kitatatsumi]

The University Police Department, is just that, a Police Department.
UPD has statewide jurisdiction, carry weapons, police dogs, the whole nine yards.
(47,000 students plus faculty)
If you think about things like Danny Rollins, the VT massacre, as well as the various murders which occur each year in Gainesville, having a University Police Department isn't such a stretch. Sometimes I wish it were more like Italy, but it just isn't.

PS:
My university bills are around $30,000.

[Hauser]

I allways assumed that the police at US universities were part of the local police force rather than one specifically for the Uni. Does the UPD have the same powers outside the university as a regular policeman?

[Shellshock1918]

Police State anyone??

[themacedonian]

Police State anyone??

this is from australian media news website refering to the video:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22439742-2,00.html

"Police state ... watch this university student being held down and tasered by police after asking former presidential candidate John Kerry if he belonged to the same secret society as President Bush. "

[Pook2]

AN AMERICAN university student was held down and shot with a Taser stun gun by police in the middle of a question-and-answer session with former presidential candidate Democrat John Kerry.


I like how the first paragraph doesn't mention his behavior.

[DaGreatRV]

AN AMERICAN university student was held down and shot with a Taser stun gun by police in the middle of a question-and-answer session with former presidential candidate Democrat John Kerry.


I like how the first paragraph doesn't mention his behavior.


His behavior was not that bad to justify tazering him. IMO

[metalgolem]

The guy is an agitator and he tries to cause **** at every
opportunity.

He resisted the officers and he deserved what he got.

[Shellshock1918]

His behavior was not that bad to justify tazering him. IMO
Definitely not.

The guy was asking a question. This cops were looking for an excuse. What happened their was a perfect demonstration of the times we are living in. A man can't even ask a question. Kerry could have stopped what was happening but he CHOSE not to.

[LMAV]

Definitely not.

The guy was asking a question. This cops were looking for an excuse. What happened their was a perfect demonstration of the times we are living in. A man can't even ask a question. Kerry could have stopped what was happening but he CHOSE not to.

Many have said it, but how are you missing his screaming like a girl and fighting the security? You think that kind of behavior is normal?

The second you start fighting the cops, you deserve whatever you get.


democracy is dead on USA campuses... Its no secret most schools have heir strong agenda and if you don't fit in you are out. Democracy moved to internetz and is thriving there...Democracy is not dead, but if it was, its because of the constant crying of wolf and lobbing of retarded questions. Instead of getting facts straight and asking legitimate questions, these nut jobs ask tin foil hat crap and than get backed up by "intellectuals" for it. If anything has ruined useful discussions, its people like this guy.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5867/200pxurllr0.jpg

"I'm gonna get 24th century on his ass"

Ahh yeah, baby.


An eccentric university student was apparently tasered at a John Kerry speaking event after getting a bit carried away with his questioning.

Is "eccentric" the new word for "insufferable" or "obnoxious"? Man what twit. Tazering was way over the top IMHO, but he surely should have been forcefully ejected for being so disruptive.

[PanzerMaster]

The University Police Department, is just that, a Police Department.
UPD has statewide jurisdiction, carry weapons, police dogs, the whole nine yards.
(47,000 students plus faculty)
If you think about things like Danny Rollins, the VT massacre, as well as the various murders which occur each year in Gainesville, having a University Police Department isn't such a stretch. Sometimes I wish it were more like Italy, but it just isn't.

PS:
My university bills are around $30,000.

More like Italy regarding what?

[LMAV]

More like Italy regarding what?

More water canals?

[Polygon]

Ahh yeah, baby.



Is "eccentric" the new word for "insufferable" or "obnoxious"? Man what twit. Tazering was way over the top IMHO, but he surely should have been forcefully ejected for being so disruptive.

Well, maybe a euphemism I suppose, but I'm not going to deny that the guy was an irritant to say the least. I do believe however that the larger of the police officers could have subdued him more forcibly if need be without the use of a taser as opposed to agitating the scene further.

Basically, if they had attempted to diffuse the situation more as opposed to looking for an excuse to resort to a taser, it could have been better handled.

[Shadowstorm]

I'm hearing on the news that he staged this so he can make a point.

[LMAV]

Basically, if they had attempted to diffuse the situation more as opposed to looking for an excuse to resort to a taser, it could have been better handled.

Thats all well and good but lets not deflect blame where it lays, the idiot who made the disruption.

I have a real hard time blaming the security in a situation where a guy is ranting and screaming like a crazy person.

[DB-ERAUPilot]

Thats all well and good but lets not deflect blame where it lays, the idiot who made the disruption.

I have a real hard time blaming the security in a situation where a guy is ranting and screaming like a crazy person.

Thank God your not in law enforcement :roll: while the student was over the top with his ranting, using a tazer on someone who was already on the ground, held down by multiple officers and in cuffs is way over the top

[Roids]

OMGZ POLICE STATES!!!!1111

I can see the drama queens have come out of their hole. This was a Q&A, and this man was a disruption to that discussion. This guy was ranting and he would have probably gone much longer about how the Illuminati comes into room every night and ******ly molests him if the security didn't remove him. If he wants to rants about his new world order BS, then he has to ask college if he can set up a presentation.

This would be the same reaction as if it was in the classroom. Whenever some kid was mouthing off and disrupting class, they would be asked to leave the room and if they refused, the school police officer would escort them out. The same kind of justification applies here.

Sure, the taser was probably excessive, but they were right in taking him out.

[California Joe]

Apparently it's going to become en vogue now to act like that mutant on Youtube with his Britney defense video. I don't give a rats ass if you're a right or left winger, conduct yourself in an appropriate manner in public. You f*ck around and start acting crazy around the President and you better believe the Secret Service will own your ass. In this day and age anyone acting like that around any political figure is in for a tasering or a severe beatdown. Tighten up. It's no different than yelling you're wearing a bomb at an airport. Act like a ****, take what's coming to you.

[snoddy]

apparently some here have forgotten whats it like to be in college and have a slapnut like john kerry on stage taking public questions.....

come on now, the kid was hyped up, all attention was on him asking kerry silly questions and his voice cracked, he finally hit puberty....

it has nothing to do with yelling fire in a crowded place....

wake up people...:cantbeli:

[PoGo]

If John Kerry coming to speak causes this much of a comotion, I can't imagine what is going to happen when Dr. Jack Kevorkian comes to speak at UF on October 11.:|

[snoddy]

well damn, he just might wanna tazer somebody himself

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Seems to me that this episode is emblematic of misguided equal opportunity hiring practices championed by the left. You know, where they have to pretend that an 85 year old 90lb. female applicant with a wooden leg will be as effective at security as a 250lb. 30 year old male applicant. Since training has to cater to the lowest common denominator, and they're now forced to deal with employees who are too small, too timid, to weak, or too old to really do the job. So instead of being trained to simply go grab the precious little twit by his neck and throw him out kicking and screaming, they train people to stand back and shoot him with 50,000 volts. I guess that college students are now the victims of the very policies that they've clamored for, which is pretty damn sweet. :)

[Shellshock1918]

Many have said it, but how are you missing his screaming like a girl and fighting the security? You think that kind of behavior is normal?

The second you start fighting the cops, you deserve whatever you get.



Right, so I am just supposed to be lead away against my free will by some cop that has nothing better to do.

He didn't "fight", as you put it, the cops. They had no right to arrest him or charge him. Plain and simple.

[California Joe]

F*ck him, he's an attention whore. You're in college to get an education, in between getting drunk and laid. If you choose to use the extra time you have unwisely, then it's your own damned fault.

Tasers = less thrashing about

[2Sheds_Jackson]

He didn't "fight", as you put it, the cops. They had no right to arrest him or charge him. Plain and simple.

Please - he was causing a disturbance, and disrupting the event - they had every right to remove him. Once he refused to comply, it gave them the right to go to the next level. I eagerly await the day when the cops can hose us down with expanding sticky foam that forms a large ball, and just roll us away from the scene.

[California Joe]

Plus you know he's going to use this incident to get laid. He'll be tapping his foot in every restroom on campus.

[Polygon]

I eagerly await the day when the cops can hose us down with expanding sticky foam that forms a large ball, and just roll us away from the scene.

Haha, I'm pretty sure that's not too far off at this point. I also agree with you regarding low levels of training and security basically taking a "hands off" approach using a taser in such a situation.

[Flamming_Python]

"What are you doing!?"
"Why are you breaking my arm!?"
"They are going to kill me!"

What a wussy. At least stand up for your beliefs if they mean to you that much, rather than stomp around screaming and shouting for the Hall to rise up against the Police and get the attention you desire.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Plus you know he's going to use this incident to get laid. He'll be tapping his foot in every restroom on campus.

Yeah he kinda seemed like he was "a gay" but I'm not sure.

My favorite part was at the end when he claimed that he was being taken away to be executed.

[Moledet]

Plus you know he's going to use this incident to get laid. He'll be tapping his foot in every restroom on campus.
He's got a good chance with the girl in the yellow shirt, she didn't follow him for nothing. ;)

He was right until they escorted him out and he tried to escape their grip, at that point he asked to be arrested. Tasering was a little over the top.

[snoddy]

some are missing the point in the video where kerry says he wants to answer his question...

obviously if he wants to answer then he has no problem with the kid and the cops, campus cops or not, over reacted plain and simple.

[California Joe]

this is from dailykos, not exactly a rightwing website

Eyewitness Account of the Student Tazering
by djdissent
Tue Sep 18, 2007 at 07:09:23 AM PDT
Disclaimer: I wasn't there, this account is coming from a friend of mine who was, copied and pasted verbatim from the IM conversation I had with him concerning the event

It was requested in the other thread that this be posted as a diary to counterpoint and countermand the existing diary on the topic and provide an eyewitness account to the events as shown in varying videos around the web.

djdissent's diary :: ::
"I was at the Kerry speech today, sitting 2 rows away from all the action. I'll let you know how it really went down.

The forum was going to be over at 2 pm, and Kerry spoke for so long that the Q and A portion had to be shortened. He only got through about 7 of the 50 people who were waiting to ask questions. While the final question was being read, some douchebag ran down the aisle, grabbed the mic from the other side of the room, interrupted the kid who was talking, and started yelling at Kerry, demanding that his questions be heard. He started ranting about how Kerry talks in circles or something, and everyone was getting annoyed. The cops are all over him in no time and try to escort him out, but he starts yelling and resisting. Kerry insists that they let him stay and even agrees to answer his question.

After the interrupted guy's question was answered, Kerry keeps his promise and lets the angry guy talk. This is the point where people started taking their cameras and phones out. All the videos floating around youtube start around here. You can see in the videos that his questioning gets kind of inappropriate, so somebody cut his mic. Instead of shutting up, he starts yelling and making an even bigger scene. He struggled all the way up the aisle, and started violently trying to free himself. They threatened to taze him and he wouldnt stop fighting, so he got tazed. They only had to arrest him because he was causing a disruption and wouldn't leave peacefully. He wasn't being silenced for asking tough questions, trust me.

It's a shame that they had to taze the guy, but he had a chance to calm down and didn't take it. He probably didn't pose a physical threat to anybody in the room, but someone can't just hijack the floor of a forum like that and expect not to get kicked out. This wasn't some poor guy who was brutalized for trying to ask some tough questions. He's just an obnoxious guy who had a fit when there wasn't time for his questions and refused to be calm even when he was given the chance to speak. He was looking for trouble, and everyone applauded when he was forced to leave.

Nothing pisses me off more than hearing stories about power tripping cops abusing their power, unnecessarily tazing or arresting people, etc. It's a huge problem and I'm glad it's being discussed. Just don't mistake this for one of those cases"

[Breakfast in Vegas]

some are missing the point in the video where kerry says he wants to answer his question...

obviously if he wants to answer then he has no problem with the kid and the cops, campus cops or not, over reacted plain and simple.

Most probably the kid WANTED to be tased so he could be some kind of hero... making a point about fighting the system, getting on YouTube and CNN and the like.

I'm no fan of overzealous cops, but of the scandalous tasing incidents I've seen on YouTube (the UCLA incident, this one and one traffic stop) the tased person was absolutely ASKING for it.

Sorry, don't feel one bit sorry for him. He was being a **** and a public nuisance at an event where security is of paramount importance.

[Kaapeli]

That is just sad. Four of them cops/guards/whatever and they can't even cuff a screaming hippie without tazering him when he's already down.

But on the other hand if you have toys like tazers then why not use them to make things easier and more fun.

[snoddy]

i was really trying to avoid that aspect of it, but i guess handcuffing class was a liberal part of the academy.

[Buckeye67]

Some of you have watched way too many episodes of CHIP's.

[Herrmannek]

BTW I have nothing against cops tazing the guy this is the way cops works,I just don't like idea of interrupting someone, and seems He was the first guy to break this rule... Anyway I hate lectures that have predicted QA part and tight schedule.They let few dumb questions out and when its becoming interesting , they say meeting is over, because lecturer was paid till 2pm or airtime is over.

[PoGo]

Just so everybody knows, I read in the online version of the UF newspaper today that Kerry wasn't paid to come speak. He is a member of the Senate so he does it for free.

[snoddy]

PoGo what does the UF paper say about this event?

whats the word on this, on the tazing campus of UF?

[Breakfast in Vegas]

That is just sad. Four of them cops/guards/whatever and they can't even cuff a screaming hippie without tazering him when he's already down.


Valid point...

[Buckeye67]

Valid point...

Not if you've never had to handcuff someone who doesn't want to be handcuffed.

[Pook2]

Did none of you read what CJ posted?

[PoGo]

PoGo what does the UF paper say about this event?

whats the word on this, on the tazing campus of UF?


Links to various articles on the school newspaper's site.

http://www.alligator.org/articles/2007/09/18/news/campus/arraignment.txt


http://www.alligator.org/articles/2007/09/18/news/campus/arrest.txt

[metalgolem]

Face it..the guy is a douche. NBC mentioned he has a website, although I couldn't find it.
They also played a video of him with a big placard that says something like
"Harry Died" outside a bookstore on the date that Harry Potter fans are lining
up to purchase the book.
In that video, a police car drives by and the officer uses the car's PA system to tell the moron to move along.

[Power_serj]

This guy is a douche bag. Once the police told him to leave, and he didn't listen, they had a right to do what they did. Period. Don't call me biased because I don't even know what he was talking about. You can bitch and moan, but the police acting accordingly to the situation. Just because he said "what did I do?" doesn't mean he didn't do anything.

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Not if you've never had to handcuff someone who doesn't want to be handcuffed.

Never have... :oops:

[kitatatsumi]

More like Italy regarding what?

Less violence, better wine, and lower tuition.
A lower chance of getting tazed at school would suit me well also.
:roll:

[deagle]

Way to take charge there, John Kerry. He could have stopped them by being a bit more assertive, I think. Also, those campus cops totally overstepped their role there. Even though the student was being very obnoxious, the tasering was completely unnecessary because they had, what? Six officers there? Bull****. And how about some support from those lames in the audience? A fellow student is being dragged out of a political event and is tasered in front of the entire auditorium. How about raising some hell? At least one had the balls to follow with his camera phone.


well, i didn't see what happened, but the campus cops cant really be faulted...are they really trained for dignitary protection ? theyprob panicked at their high profile role. we think its extreme, maybe it was maybe wasn't, we weren't there. maybe they thought he was gonna do something stupid and possible become a threat. who knows. they prob will investigate and go on from there.

[Merfeller]

well, i didn't see what happened, but the campus cops cant really be faulted...are they really trained for dignitary protection ? theyprob panicked at their high profile role. we think its extreme, maybe it was maybe wasn't, we weren't there. maybe they thought he was gonna do something stupid and possible become a threat. who knows. they prob will investigate and go on from there.

When I posted that the "story" was breaking and I was sympathetic to the kid. Now that I know the backstory he seems like an attention whore. My point was simply that Kerry didn't seem to make much of an effort to let the kid finish his questions before a bunch of overzealous cops dragged him out. Again, I didn't know that the kid had interrupted someone else to get to the mic. I still don't agree with the tazering, but he definitely deserved to be escorted out.

[Mastermind]

Awww...geeze...it was a Democrat event and they are just not accustomed to the treatment they hand out to the hated "neocons" who come to college campuses to speak...it's just not done to liberals, so they didn't really know how to handle it.

Give the security people brown shirts and rubber truncheons, and you have a really great "history repeating itself" moment.

[little icebear]

It doesn´t friggin matter if this guy was a douche, a tinfoil-hatter or just a guy who likes to p*ss people of by ranting.
It was a discussion in which students where invited to participate - if that´s not a place to talk bullcrap (which Kerry loves to do himself 24/7) where else?

He was no threat to anyone but to good taste and decent behaviour. No reason to arrest him.
Things like this should not happen in a democratic state. Hope he sues them all big time.

[Kak]

"Don't taze me bro!"

That's what happens when you try to escape the grasp of police.

[Seraphim]

These police officer threads get more ridiculous posts than any other topic. Well maybe a tie between airsofters thinking their bb shooters are the exact same as real ones.

Thread should be locked for the betterment of mankind.

[CPL Trevoga]

Ok, note to myself: "Don't go to Kerry events and ask questions"

Seriously, guy should be happy they did not blast his ass with .45.

[Shellshock1918]

Please - he was causing a disturbance, and disrupting the event - they had every right to remove him. Once he refused to comply, it gave them the right to go to the next level. I eagerly await the day when the cops can hose us down with expanding sticky foam that forms a large ball, and just roll us away from the scene.

He was asking a question. They had NO right to remove him. Unless you feel that free speech isn't a good thing anymore.

Fascist f*ck.

[Seraphim]

He was asking a question. They had NO right to remove him. Unless you feel that free speech isn't a good thing anymore.

Fascist f*ck.

Free speech, fvck yeah! Im going to go into a movie theater and yell "fire!". Free speech after all. :roll:

[Roids]

He was asking a question. They had NO right to remove him. Unless you feel that free speech isn't a good thing anymore.

Fascist f*ck.

http://forum.joomla.org/Smileys/joomla/popcorn.gif

[JJC]

Oh he was screaming kill kerry???:roll:

[D-gin]

He was asking a question. They had NO right to remove him. Unless you feel that free speech isn't a good thing anymore.

Fascist f*ck.
Free speech is fine but when you act like an obnoxious idiot and start ranting and raving that is a different story!

The kid acted stupid and pushed his luck! Did the police overreact? IMO, Yes but that does not excuse him from his actions.

[JJC]

Free speech is fine but when you act like an obnoxious idiot and start ranting and raving that is a different story!

The kid acted stupid and pushed his luck! Did the police overreact? IMO, Yes but that does not excuse him from his actions.

He was practicing what Kerry and his party represents no? Peace no wars, freedom of speech, the patriot act is killing our freedoms?:)

[D-gin]

He was practicing what Kerry and his party represents no? Peace no wars, freedom of speech, the patriot act is killing our freedoms?:)

Look I have no problem with someone asking the senators the questions he did not want to answer, in fact I'm glad we live in a place that you can do that but you need to do so in a professional and dignified manner and when you handle it the way that student did do you really expect anyone to take you seriously.

[Moledet]

Picture by AP from Ynet:
http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer2/04062007/1236320/FLGAI102_wa.jpg
This didn't just go national but international...

P.S. according to the report he got his time on the microphone but refused to stop after his time ended, he was asked to stop and continued until they removed him. Two cops were suspended until the end of the investigation.

[Pook2]

EDIT
Regardless, the kid is a ****ing ******.

[snoddy]

http://forum.joomla.org/Smileys/joomla/popcorn.gif

,,,,,,,,,,,,,, rofl ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Polygon]

EDIT
Regardless, the kid is a ****ing ******.

I agree, ultimately, the whole incident could have been better handled. Kid definitely received his 15 minutes of fame for all the drama.

[Shellshock1918]

Free speech, fvck yeah! Im going to go into a movie theater and yell "fire!". Free speech after all. :roll:

Thats not what he did. If you think that asking a question is the same as presenting a false sense of danger then you need to stop talking and let the adults speak.

[Pook2]

The kid deserved everything he got, just for being a bitch.

[D-gin]

Thats not what he did. If you think that asking a question is the same as presenting a false sense of danger then you need to stop talking and let the adults speak.
No what he did was act in a very out of control manner that resulted in him being told numerous times to calm down and when he didn't his ass detained and zapped.

[Buckeye67]

Thats not what he did. If you think that asking a question is the same as presenting a false sense of danger then you need to stop talking and let the adults speak.

That's not what he did. If you think his increasingly disorderly behavior is the same thing as simply asking a question, then you need to stop talking and let the adults speak.

Actually, you just need to stop talking.

[Roids]

Mature and appropriate questioning for such an event = Good

Whining like a little b*tch, being obnoxious, disrupting others during their questions and being an overall attention whore = Ass Beating

This is not hard to comprehend.

[LRPV]

Mature and appropriate questioning for such an event = Good

Whining like a little b*tch, being obnoxious, disrupting others during their questions and being an overall attention whore = Ass Beating

This is not hard to comprehend.


Who here has not wanted to taser someone at some point?

[HR24]

He was asking a question. They had NO right to remove him. Unless you feel that free speech isn't a good thing anymore.

Fascist f*ck.

Soooo......as of right now what we have to go on is a report that he charged up to the mike and took it over from someone else. He then proceeded to blather on with question after question and when was asked to remove himself from the mike, pushed the campus police away. The simple act of him pushing them away could have put them through their use of force pyramid. And, as he continues to run about and resist, he is led out and finally subdued with a taser.

Was the taser necessary-I don't know their use of force policy, but the taser was probably used, as opposed to OC spray because of the indoor area and gathering of civilians. How come they didn't just armbar this little pr*ck to the ground and crank up his arm and wrist is beyond me. Pressure points maybe??? Sure, some people need more than that, but the video shows this guy as a f*cking Mary.

Bottom line, the kid is a little attention whore who needs an ass-beating from somebody to knock the snot-nosed attitude out of him. If you are in a public forum, conduct yourself accordingly. There comes a point in ones life to grow the f*ck up and act like an adult. This weiner isn't there yet.

Nevertheless, I nearly spit my coffee out of my nose this morning while hearing it on Mike Gallagher. I could not stop laughing at this cheese ball. F*cking priceless audio.

One other thing-anybody wonder if it was Kerry's handlers who advised the Campus PD to go up and cut this guy off? Or was it the event organizers?

[HR24]

Who here has not wanted to taser someone at some point?

Taser? Ehhhh.....

Extendable baton? You bet. Who doesn't like a little stick time :)..

[Shellshock1918]

What in the **** has happened to free speech in this country? Why are we commending the acts of the police in over-exerting their authority?

He was asking a question, took too long and was removed from the room then became boisterous. This isn't democracy, we don't remove people for asking serious questions! That is a police state! That guy,no matter how loud he got, was not threatening anyone. He asked why he was being arrested and received no answer. The cops had NO RIGHT OR REASON to arrest him or charge him. Intent to start a riot? What ****ing bull**** is that? Thats ridiculous **** if I've ever heard.

[Pook2]

What in the **** has happened to free speech in this country? Why are we commending the acts of the police in over-exerting their authority?

He was asking a question, took too long and was removed from the room then became boisterous. This isn't democracy, we don't remove people for asking serious questions! That is a police state! That guy,no matter how loud he got, was not threatening anyone. He asked why he was being arrested and received no answer. The cops had NO RIGHT OR REASON to arrest him or charge him. Intent to start a riot? What ****ing bull**** is that? Thats ridiculous **** if I've ever heard.

Seriously, shutup.

[Buckeye67]

What in the **** has happened to free speech in this country? Why are we commending the acts of the police in over-exerting their authority?

He was asking a question, took too long and was removed from the room then became boisterous. This isn't democracy, we don't remove people for asking serious questions! That is a police state! That guy,no matter how loud he got, was not threatening anyone. He asked why he was being arrested and received no answer. The cops had NO RIGHT OR REASON to arrest him or charge him. Intent to start a riot? What ****ing bull**** is that? Thats ridiculous **** if I've ever heard.

Oh I get it now. Good gimmick*.






















*stop posting.

[RECON DOC]

That was wrong, he did not deserve that. Whether people think he was a whiny bitch or not he had every right to question an elected official in an open forum. Those campus cops were way out of line.

[Buckeye67]

It wasn't. He did. They weren't.

[shocker1]

All this uber reactionary police training and *non lethal* money grants paid off here it seems. Way over board with the gung ho show if you ask me. Some training in protecting and serving the community would be in order.

[Hollis]

That was wrong, he did not deserve that. Whether people think he was a whiny bitch or not he had every right to question an elected official in an open forum. Those campus cops were way out of line.


Your forgetting the rules of decorum. He was baiting Kerry and demanding more time that others. Not one question but many, he refused to yield the podium when finished, he was setting up the conflict. I am surprise you did not catch all of that.

[TR1]

That guy was a ****ing moron. But the cops displayed utter inability to control the situation without resorting to taser use.

[RECON DOC]

That guy was a ****ing moron. But the cops displayed utter inability to control the situation without resorting to taser use.

Thank you.

[AlterMega]

obviously,because it sure looked like they couldn't FORCE him to put his hands behind his back.50,000 volts of FOLLOW ORDERS was well due.

[Buckeye67]

obviously,because it sure looked like they couldn't FORCE him to put his hands behind his back.50,000 volts of FOLLOW ORDERS was well due.

It sure beats how we had to do it back in the days before tasers were as widely available as they are now. Unless everyone thinks it's more humane to beat someone with nightsticks and 4 D-cell maglights until they're compliant, bloody and/or unconcscious?

[D-gin]

What in the **** has happened to free speech in this country? Why are we commending the acts of the police in over-exerting their authority?

He was asking a question, took too long and was removed from the room then became boisterous. This isn't democracy, we don't remove people for asking serious questions! That is a police state! That guy,no matter how loud he got, was not threatening anyone. He asked why he was being arrested and received no answer. The cops had NO RIGHT OR REASON to arrest him or charge him. Intent to start a riot? What ****ing bull**** is that? Thats ridiculous **** if I've ever heard.
Pull your head outta your ass.

[PanzerMaster]

If I found myself in the US and some police stop me or want to restrain me I'll sure will freeze (if not willingly at least in fear: being in Italy is not uncommon to have some sub machine gun wielding police questioning you... but in US I know that they SHOOT for real!)

I know also that "disorderly conduct" is a charge that can be easily put on you by the arresting agents so... right or wrong, freeze and compel to the orders! If something is unjust or wrong regarding police actions, you must do the right thing and the judge will surely rule out who has done mistakes (especially with cameras and witnesses and a VIP present and a worlwide news coverage).

Screaming or, worst, wrestling with police maybe is a crime by itself. Regardless of what many think about US (I am one who often is ****e to criticize some social/political aspects of your country), I still believe that yours is still a civilized nation and you are confronting lawful officers (citizen like you themselves) and not some warlord/dictators thugs

[timetraveller]

Seriously to do that and not realise that ur being filmed ..


Does paint many pictures ....


Tbh It's a PR disaster for John Kerry and for the Police Involved and a Comedians Godsend .. as it gives them Ample Material to use .. and also it won't be far long when you see a Comedy sketch based on the incident ..

[Herrmannek]

If I found myself in the US and some police stop me or want to restrain me I'll sure will freeze (if not willingly at least in fear: being in Italy is not uncommon to have some sub machine gun wielding police questioning you... but in US I know that they SHOOT for real!)

I know also that "disorderly conduct" is a charge that can be easily put on you by the arresting agents so... right or wrong, freeze and compel to the orders! If something is unjust or wrong regarding police actions, you must do the right thing and the judge will surely rule out who has done mistakes (especially with cameras and witnesses and a VIP present and a worlwide news coverage).

Screaming or, worst, wrestling with police maybe is a crime by itself. Regardless of what many think about US (I am one who often is ****e to criticize some social/political aspects of your country), I still believe that yours is still a civilized nation and you are confronting lawful officers (citizen like you themselves) and not some warlord/dictators thugs
At least if USA cop beats you probably have a proof, when European cop have a bad day its only his words against yours in court, and courts tend to trust cops if there is no other evidence, not to say I haven't heard of lots European scientist dealing with force science that could explain what actually happened there.

[futurepilot2004]

Slightly off topic but it didn`t seem like there were too many students there. I would have expected the place to be packed with people from both sides of the political spectrum.

[PanzerMaster]

At least if USA cop beats you probably have a proof, when European cop have a bad day its only his words against yours in court, and courts tend to trust cops if there is no other evidence, not to say I haven't heard of lots European scientist dealing with force science that could explain what actually happened there.

Speaking for Italy, actually I witnessed cops only beating teenagers who don't stop for check or run with their scooter (they didn't dare to beat for nothing on adults in the street... too much risk to beat the "wrong" person I presume).
I know also that beating happen in the police stations. But I assure you that in Italy judges are very garantist and lenients, and a lot of police efforts are wasted. If you are speaking about police in UK or German I can't agree or disagree with you because I don't know first hand.

I don't know what is force science but also here we have our particular branch of "CSI", the RIS of Carabinieri is a premier example... remember that if some place is not in the USA, is not automatic that is "third world" :hug:

[Herrmannek]

Speaking for Italy, actually I witnessed cops only beating teenagers who don't stop for check or run with their scooter (they didn't dare to beat for nothing on adults in the street... too much risk to beat the "wrong" person I presume).
I know also that beating happen in the police stations. But I assure you that in Italy judges are very garantist and lenients, and a lot of police efforts are wasted. If you are speaking about police in UK or German I can't agree or disagree with you because I don't know first hand.

I don't know what is force science but also here we have our particular branch of "CSI", the RIS of Carabinieri is a premier example... remember that if some place is not in the USA, is not automatic that is "third world" :hug:

Force Science* is science investigating use of force in LE encounters. Sometimes they are like CSI, they explain to court events basing on the human body limitations, scene analysis, additional evidence and so on. For example if cop who were accused of wrongfully shooting someone actually did it or if he crossed the line other way. They Examine how force encounters happen and how to react to them and handle them properly, how fatigue, adverse conditions impacts cops reaction, what cops remember from encounters and how their vision/decisions are affected, how capable criminals are and so on. Lots of stuff around coping work. I haven't heard of such organizations in Europe nor read any work in the field coming from Europe.


*its a trademark of one particular organization, but it fits well what the science is about. http://www.forcescience.org/

[PanzerMaster]

Force Science* is science investigating use of force in LE encounters. Sometimes they are like CSI, they explain to court events basing on the human body limitations, scene analysis, additional evidence and so on. For example if cop who were accused of wrongfully shooting someone actually did it or if he crossed the line other way. They Examine how force encounters happen and how to react to them and handle them properly, how fatigue, adverse conditions impacts cops reaction, what cops remember from encounters and how their vision/decisions are affected, how capable criminals are and so on. Lots of stuff around coping work. I haven't heard of such organizations in Europe nor read any work in the field coming from Europe.


*its a trademark of one particular organization, but it fits well what the science is about. http://www.forcescience.org/

Many thanks I am at work and too lazy to do a googling. I don't know if this discipline is incorporated in the standard CSI or whatever. Surely investigation in police action that result in casualties are done. Sorry to the other members for being OT in those posts, now return to the tasering...

[Herrmannek]

Many thanks I am at work and too lazy to do a googling. I don't know if this discipline is incorporated in the standard CSI or whatever. Surely investigation in police action that result in casualties are done. Sorry to the other members for being OT in those posts, now return to the tasering...
Yup but this can be done and this can be done right. If you would read their page you would find that on many occasions they got to different conclusions than ordinary CSI guys did.

[HR24]

That was wrong, he did not deserve that. Whether people think he was a whiny bitch or not he had every right to question an elected official in an open forum. Those campus cops were way out of line.

I somewhat agree with you here. I wasn't there, but judging by just the video, there were enough officers there to MAKE this guy compliant and get him in handcuffs. Last time I checked, the kid wasn't cranked up on PCP, so he was gonna feel the pain if you really tuned him up and put him in cuffs.

Still, the kid needs a lesson in conducting one's self properly in a forum setting. As much as I think Kerry is a tool, he still is an elected official and should be treated with some respect when addressed.

[johngsheehan]

the sad part about this kid is that he probably won't learn the next time someone tells him to shut up. he had a valid point, but broke the rules and expected them to kiss his butt because he had the floor. rule of thumb is that when you are in handcuffs you don't continue to fight the cops unless you are auditioning for cops. p.s. he only was fighting when someone was filming lol

[Hollis]

This is one of these post where people are free to judge from what ever position they come from. It is amazing at the knew jerk anti-police statements.

It is as though we expect our police to be targets, punching bags, or martyrs for society. Tasers have a purpose of being less destructive and more controllable that a whack with a baton or sap. The woman Officer tried her best to get the idiot to chill. I wonder how many of you steely eye killas ever got into a confrontation? Perps can throw lucky punches, or carry conceal or ?? you never know until the perp is subdued and secured. I would suggest some you volunteer to be punching bags for the cops, so they do not get hurt. We do not hire cops to take a beating for us. After you had you nose broken, glasses broken, kicked in groin, dislocated something, got stabbed etc... Then tell me how you will over come someone in a safe and expedient measure that insures the physical safety of all involved. If you noticed they did not beat the crap out of the idiot, they were able to restrain him with out a lot of physical trauma.

[D-gin]

While I do stick by my thoughts on the officers decision to use a taser, HOLLiS you've made very good points.

It's always easy to second guess a person(s) actions from the comfort of our sofas while watching a video on CNN but considering that a big percentage of the general public haven't ever had to make those types of on the spot decisions it should come to no ones surprise you get those sort of reactions from a lot of folks.

[little icebear]

A Taser is a very painful device. I know that from first-hand experience.

I´m not a cop but I do have experience with bouncing. I´ve seldom seen the need to make use of excessive force (call me a douche, but to me this is excessive force) in order to get someone out of the club. Particularly when the troublemaker is some nerd who enjoys ranting around and not some aggressive thug going postal.

I know, I know... over the pond, the clocks tick a little different. But matter of fact is: This situation could have been dissolved way more elegantly.

[metalgolem]

Simply put, the guy would not comply with the officers when he was first told to.
He actively resisted arrest which made it more difficult for the officers to
handcuff him.
In the heat of the moment, while making the arrest, the officers showed
restraint by not all piling on him and finally the use of the taser had the desired
effect.

The fact this guy is an attention whore and an agitating b*tch makes the
tasering just that much sweeter.

[Hollis]

While I do stick by my thoughts on the officers decision to use a taser, HOLLiS you've made very good points.

It's always easy to second guess a person(s) actions from the comfort of our sofas while watching a video on CNN but considering that a big percentage of the general public haven't ever had to make those types of on the spot decisions it should come to no ones surprise you get those sort of reactions from a lot of folks.


D-Gin, you too also add constructively to this discussion. We know there will be a review of the officers conduct. From there we can/may easily point out if they used excessive force or not. The idea is no one gets physiclally hurt. Even when you dog pile a suspect physical force on force, it is very easy to do some serious damage to either the suspect or the officers. It is one of those unpleasant events, to watch it causes the unitiated to be shocked and appauled. That is a pretty normal reaction. I think we would all like to have better options, but right now there are none. I think it is overly naive to expect officers to accept being hurt/injured in the line of duty.

The young man had a lot of control of this situation that he chose not to use, but rather he chose to exasterbate the situation.


BTW, I can not stand Kerry, but even he has the right to go unmolested.

[D-gin]

D-Gin, you too also add constructively to this discussion. We know there will be a review of the officers conduct. From there we can/may easily point out if they used excessive force or not. The idea is no one gets physiclally hurt. Even when you dog pile a suspect physical force on force, it is very easy to do some serious damage to either the suspect or the officers. It is one of those unpleasant events, to watch it causes the unitiated to be shocked and appauled. That is a pretty normal reaction. I think we would all like to have better options, but right now there are none. I think it is overly naive to expect officers to accept being hurt/injured in the line of duty.

The young man had a lot of control of this situation that he chose not to use, but rather he chose to exasterbate the situation.


BTW, I can not stand Kerry, but even he has the right to go unmolested.

I agree on all points.

I would also add that none of the videos I've seen on the Internet, Fox News or CNN show what the kid was doing while on the ground, So until the findings of the investigations are released nobody can honestly say one way or another if the actions where justified, And they may very well have been.

[little icebear]

I think it is overly naive to expect officers to accept being hurt/injured in the line of duty.


He was not very cooperative when it comes to leaving the building, but I´ve watched the vid from two different angels now.
He was not kicking, not throwing punches and he obviously he did not attempt to draw some concealed weapon.
He behaviour was quite annoying, but dangerous?
When the taser was applied he was pinned on the ground, only resisting to be cuffed by floundering around.
Just for the record - I´ve taken down und zip-cuffed bigger guys with the help of only one (!) buddie.

[snoddy]

im personally not against police officers, but when you have what 3-4 of them around 1 col kid and couldnt hand cuff him??? and then have to taze him to subdue him??? maybe they should get a job at the local mall....

maybe its just the respect for officers some people have and some dont maybe when someone is getting surrounded by cops and doesnt care or doesnt stop what theyre doing then maybe they should get tazed... guess they didnt have any OC.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

im personally not against police officers, but when you have what 3-4 of them around 1 col kid and couldnt hand cuff him??? and then have to taze him to subdue him??? maybe they should get a job at the local mall....

That's kinda how I'm thinking. I maintain that this is a more widespread problem -not an isolated incident by any means. The reasons being:
1) the tiny "security" personnel lack the physical presence to persuade the young man to comply on his own (i.e. without violence),
2) the security personnel lack the actual physical ability to overpower the kid
3) owing to the above, they've been trained to stand back and shoot instead of physically engaging anything larger than a kitten.

I'm certain that if the kid was presented with a couple of security individuals who could clearly have kicked his ass (i.e. much larger than he was), he would have shut up and the meeting could have moved on.

I still think tasing was over the top, but they were probably just following procedure. I just think the procedure is sad.

There's nothing I like better than watching video on COPS where some unarmed drunk naked guy is threatening to kill himself with a ripe banana, and he causes a 6 hour standoff - surrounded by 50 cops in full swat gear. Several thousand dollars in overtime later, he's swarmed by 10 guys. In Russia, they'd have sent one guy in street clothes over to kick him in the face and end it right there. Which I kind of admire. :)

[timetraveller]

im personally not against police officers, but when you have what 3-4 of them around 1 col kid and couldnt hand cuff him??? and then have to taze him to subdue him??? maybe they should get a job at the local mall....

maybe its just the respect for officers some people have and some dont maybe when someone is getting surrounded by cops and doesnt care or doesnt stop what theyre doing then maybe they should get tazed... guess they didnt have any OC.


Police Officer Training isn't held on regular basis like the Millitary so there is Situations like the Above And Personal Fitness levels isn't as Strict as the Millitary ..
They should know how deal with that , but the outcome made them look unprofessional due to lack of Training .. And the footage has become an Instant hit onthe Web .. because of the Content .

Hence why you have said there better off working in the Shopping complex


And some of Points 2SHEDs has said also ..

[Hollis]

Time, I agree with your statement. My POV was based on several things. 1) video was not very good quality from what I saw.

2) Colleges and Universities do not hire aggressive police officers.

3) Campus cops jobs have a very high % of PR.

4) even regular cops are not trained to be combatants

5) Imagine if Officer Ivan the horrible, walked up to the kid, told him to cease and desist, the kid did not, and with a powerful blow from huge right arm... split the kids nose wide open.

6) No one knows where the kid was going with all of this.

7) the kid could have just complied with the request of the officers and nothing would have happened.

8) the kid was being very passive aggressive

a note, the job with the highest % of workmans comp injuries for the State of Oregon for Officers, is the State Hospital Geriatric ward. Old people can be very docile and then just explode.

9), I think a review board will go over all this with better detail and facts then we have.

10) to reiterate, Cops and not hired to go manos y manos with suspects/perps/students.

11) Maybe as the cops did over react. The cops have to take into consideration their ability to physically contain a suspect. Again A lot of cops are just not physical animals more like donut eating, over weight secretaries.

12) I am not sure if the Officers had pistols. The most dangerous aspect of physical contact, is loosing your pistol to the suspect. A lot of cops had died because of that.

[PoGo]

Aside from the sports section, this was pretty much the only things discussed in today's school paper. There was a large student protest outside the UPD headquarters. The female officer who used her taser and the male officer who told her to do so were suspened with pay. I can't believe how much publicity this is receiving.

[Merfeller]

Slightly off topic but it didn`t seem like there were too many students there. I would have expected the place to be packed with people from both sides of the political spectrum.

Don't forget that it was John Kerry speaking, i.e. a completely meaningless has-been. No one really cares what ex-presidential candidates have to say. Call it a byproduct of our system. One of the current crop of candidates would surely have been more of a draw. I'm not even really sure what Kerry is doing on the lecture circuit when he's a current senator and should be in Washington doing his damn job.

[Death.]

From another forum, I'd like to know your thoughts on these opinions:
Btw personally I think the officers were in the right.



.he had what, 4 officers holding him down? do you REALLY believe they would have had to break his arms if they diddnt taze him? come on, the guy wasnt exactly huge. They could have EASILY wrangled him into the handcuffs.

that was no different than cops beating the **** out of somone who was down. If flordia says thats ok, well, florida is a ****ed up state and i feel sorry for any american that has to live through that ****.

If somone is drunk and confrontational and violent, sure, taze them. This kid was tazed AFTER he was subdued by 4 cops.

do you REALLY believe that the cops couldnt have gotten him in cuffs? how big of pussys are florida cops then? ****, ill bet you $500 bucks that greg and i could get that kid in handcuffs in half the time without using the tazer




How it should have been handled?

THE COPS SHOULD HAVE STAYED THE **** OUT!

This is what the cops should have done.

The guy is asking John Kerry questions, John Kerry is answering. they should have CONTINUED to let him answer.
Once John kerry no longer wanted to answer the questions he would have said "Thank you for you questions, moving on, next question please"
At that point the kid knew his question time was over. At that point he PROBABLY would have just sat down, grumbled about what a **** kerry is and then everything would have been fine.

THAT is what should have happened.

If john kerry shut him down and STOPPED ANSWERING his questions the kid would have probably shut up. If he would have continued at that point the police should step up and said his time is over if he continues they will remove him.

THE PROBLEM IS THE COPS STEPPED IN WHEN KERRY WAS ANSWERING HIS QUESTIONS. When is it the police role to do such a thing? THE SENATOR WAS SPEAKING DIRECTLY TO THE KID and they tried removing him. I would have been PISSED too.

If the kid would have started shouting and INTERRUPTING the next person asking questions then YES he SHOULD be removed. But the Senator was STILL TALKING TO HIM.

WHy is that so ****ing hard to understand? The police acted when they should not have, they jumped in too soon and started trampling on the kids rights. They interrupted the senator and caused a huge scene.

And yeah, WHY THE **** was a cop just standing there instead of subdueing him and just letting them TAZE him?

Check this out numbnuts. NOT ONLY OLD PEOPLE HAVE PACEMAKERS. If that kid had a heart condition and they tazed him HE WOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED.

Tazing is NOT healthy, there are SERIOUS risks involved with it. It should ONLY be used as a resort when the person is too dangrous to subdue, IE a pissed off drunk, a raged methhead, or just a badass who can beat the tar out of cops.

The cops ****ed up in MANY ways.

First off, it is the SENATORS stage, he is a politician and he can HANDLE tough questions. SENATOR KERRY should have been allowed the chance to answer the kids questions and move on. But the cops did not let him, they INTERRRUPTED him to remove the kid.

Second, the Tazer is not something to be taken lightly. It CAN cause serious damage. They did NOT need it. Period. They could easily have wrangled him in. The kid wasnt drunk, or on drugs, he was just pissed because he was asking a question, starting to get an answer, and they tried removing him with police force while the senator was answering his question.

[California Joe]

I would have used a PR-24 on that whiney ****. If he'd been dressed in Arabic dress most of you would be wondering why they didn't shoot his ass.

[clean]

I tried reading this whole thread, but some people are, well, dumb, and it hurt to read.
Law Enforcement have a very difficult job at these kind of events, and while protest is allowed, and should be, if you act like an asshat, you're going to be treated as such.
In my experience, most of the people who come on aggressively during these situations, want it to get out of control so it can be held up a an example of the current admins destruction of human rights.

[AgentX]

In my experience, most of the people who come on aggressively during these situations, want it to get out of control so it can be held up a an example of the current admins destruction of human rights.
I have experienced it too. In one case an ex-professor and human rights activist allegedly raped and killed his friend only to prove that not all state executed people are criminals. He was innocent, for the record.

But that was in a movie. :bash:

[little icebear]

From another forum, I'd like to know your thoughts on these opinions:

I pretty much agree with the second post.




Btw personally I think the officers were in the right.

Personally I think the officer who ordered the taser-action should loose his job, as well the woman who carried out the order. I although think Kerry is a douche for doing nothing about it.


I tried reading this whole thread, but some people are, well, dumb, and it hurt to read.You mean the ones who get a hard on when some immature hippie kid gets some psysical attention just for ranting around?


Law Enforcement have a very difficult job at these kind of events, and while protest is allowed, and should be, if you act like an asshat, you're going to be treated as such.
In my experience, most of the people who come on aggressively during these situations, want it to get out of control so it can be held up a an example of the current admins destruction of human rights.I could agree with your last sentence. It is possible ´cause - Actually they did him a favor. What would have happened if they would have given him the chance to tell about his views on the world?
Nothing. No one who have cared. Just some crazed leftist ranting around at a public discussion. No big news, zero impact.
Now he is all over the news. Maybe he got what he wanted.

[Hollis]

Personally I think the officer who ordered the taser-action should loose his job, as well the woman who carried out the order. I although think Kerry is a douche for doing nothing about it.

.

I don't know how long you been a LEO, do you remember Kal (CAL) lights, I had a 7 cell one. It was used as a more PR friendly way of self protection. It was carried where the light was shined down and the battery part was over you shoulder, in the quick whack position. One received more complaints for having their hand on their service revolver as they approached the drivers door or "citizen". There is a distance you do not want a citizen or suspect to cross between you and them. Again most LEO were killed with their own service pistol.

BTW, I am still envolved with a agency and had over sight in another agency sometime back. Taser-ing as bad as it is, is a better choice than some of the other options.

I think it was in the PDRC when a Office whacked a perp with his, killed him. We did not have tasers. We had cap stun, did not work on idiots on PCP, just made them madder. Batons worked, but again like the Kal lights, could get real messy.

[muttbutt]

Frankly he deserved it just for uttering the word "Bro"...seriously are we back in some sort of circa 1994 skater/surfer bizarro Earth where the word "Bro" can be used?...I don't think so...hit him again:bash:

[little icebear]

There was neither any need to whack him with a flashlight nor to tazer him...

I´ve seen severel versions of this vid now... I don´t know what you mean with "passive agressive". He was being an attention whore making clear to everyone that he´s oppressed and stuff... so what?

I´m not an LEO though I had to do guard duty. But that almost feels like another live and doesn´t really matter. The ROEs are not comparable either but you know that, I think.
But later on, I had to drag people out of clubs quite often. Bigger ones, violent ones. With way less support, sometimes even completly on my own. Hell, when I was watchin that I thought to myself that the black security guy should have been able to throw him out on his own!
Next thing - It was stupid to order his removal in the first place. Either you don´t let him get to that mike in the first place or you let him speak.
We´ve got an eager conspiracy-theorist here and someone decides to cut him off after 3 seconds. What do you expect how he will react?
Of course he´ll be p*ssed and start yelling about freedom of speech.
And you know what? He´s right. No matter how dump his opinions might be - it was a public discussion and they gave him the mike.
Forceful removal was not very smart at that point.
You might have another opinion but I (and the law in the country I come from) consider the use of force like batons, mace or taser or even plain punching should only be applied if the person I´m dealing with poses a threat.
How threatening is this kid? I´d have him dragged out on my own in a blink of an eye. Without hurting him or get myself hurt.
Once again, I´m not an LEO but I´ve been there and done that under conditions which were worse. It´s just embarassing.

[Death.]

^^ Well according to some eye witness accounts he was not infact, given the mic.

He rushed up through the line of people waiting an grabbed it to make sure his voice was heard.

[little icebear]

^^ Well according to some eye witness accounts he was not infact, given the mic.

He rushed up through the line of people waiting an grabbed it to make sure his voice was heard.

You can see and hear in the vids on youtube how Kerry admits him to the floor.
Maybe he has jumped to the queue before that, which would explain why the officers where already standing right behind him.
Never the less - he was allowed to speak and the first thing he did was saying thank you...

[Hollis]

I don´t know what you mean with "passive agressive".


Not from the DSM IVR, but it works,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-aggressive_behavior

[Laconian]

The Taser is a hit in PDs because it generally allows officers to keep their distance and handle a situation with a minimum of potential injury to both the subject and the officer. Some agencies place its use very low on their use of force continuum ("Sir, you're going to have to come with us." "I ain't going nowh"....zzzzzaaaaappppp), Others place it just below resorting to deadly force. Which means it's right up there with me giving you a drum solo with my collapsable baton. I don't know where the UFPD have it but based on this incident it appears on the lower end. The investigation will show if they violated policy or not.

Here is some other news: most cops don't like to mix it up. About 1-5% are the guys who really train, stay fit and are serious about the profession of arms that they are in. How many of those folks work for a UPD? If you're really a street monster you're not chasing college kids in Gainesville. That is not meant as a snide comment or slight at campus cops (I wouldn't do that job), just reality.

So you are faced with a disruptive subject that you are loading for Disorderly (and they had plenty of PC for that arrest) and he has resisted; what do you do? Fight him? Wait, I missed my last DT session last year and I haven't worked out since I hurt my back. OC? Not inside, too much overspray and I might spray the other cops. Leaves you with option C: Taser.

I don't fault the cops for giving him a ride; it was the safest thing for them and him. Would I have done it? No.

HR24 was right; the audio I heard had us in stitches - priceless.

[Hollis]

I don't fault the cops for giving him a ride; it was the safest thing for them and him. Would I have done it? No.

.

I think you bring up a great point, If you ask 100 LEOs, the responces would vary. I was thinking about this;

at 22 I would have flown over the seat with baton in hand.

at 29, I would have checked for adequate back up and had capstun in hand.

at 35, I would have probably try a more softer approach, Call 911

at 45, I would have read about it in the a report,

Now that I am a total whimp, I would have said, Senator Kerry, you deal with it, or discuss it in the safe environment of my home on the interweb.

[Bia]

Great video...

spoiled kids getting owned.... gotta love that.

[AgentX]

Great video...

spoiled kids getting owned.... gotta love that.
I happen to disagree strongly. A great video indeed, for it unleashes the true authoritarian fascist face of the force hiding under the mask of freedom and liberty.

I wonder how you lot would have reacted if it had taken place in Russia or any other not-so-democratic nations?

[PoGo]

This is makes me ashamed to be an alumni.

http://www.alligator.org/articles/2007/09/20/news/local/wall.txt

Its one thing to disagree with what the police did, its a whole different issue when you deface a memorial to a person who died in the line of duty protecting you.

[nemowork]

Is that link working for anyone else?

[Zoomie]

I happen to disagree strongly. A great video indeed, for it unleashes the true authoritarian fascist face of the force hiding under the mask of freedom and liberty.
Oh, I'm suuuure it does that because people get tased everyday as a way to suppress their freedom of speech. :roll: Why don't you just go back to reading the stuff at PrisonPlanet?

[Bia]

I happen to disagree strongly. A great video indeed, for it unleashes the true authoritarian fascist face of the force hiding under the mask of freedom and liberty.


So in your opinion anyone there that day had the right to stand up and act like a total jackass for as long as they felt like? Everyone else having to wait them out because one has the freedom and liberty to act like a douchebag?

LOL you're so wrong.

[AgentX]

Oh, I'm suuuure it does that because people get tased everyday as a way to suppress their freedom of speech. :roll: Why don't you just go back to reading the stuff at PrisonPlanet?
This isn't Sparta.


So in your opinion anyone there that day had the right to stand up and act like a total jackass for as long as they felt like? Everyone else having to wait them out because one has the freedom and liberty to act like a douchebag?
Have you ever tasered your president in defense of your beliefs?


LOL you're so wrong.
Very subjective, ma'am!

[AlterMega]

He resisted-he got tased.The End.
If he complied with the police maybe your "omfg authoritarian facist cops" theory would suffice.

[AgentX]

He resisted-he got tased.The End.
If he complied with the police maybe your "omfg authoritarian facist cops" theory would suffice.
The Police aren't running the show, people are! They're there to serve and protect, not to act like snobby little personal bodyguards of an equally snobby celebrity.

[Bia]

Have you ever tasered your president in defense of your beliefs?


^Moot point^...has nothing to do anything.

He got to speak... his turn was over but he decided otherwise.
We live in a society... he fought the social norm and paid the price.
This concept is as old as mankind itself.

Your concept of the events are at best... comedy.
Wanna be totaly free? Go live in the forrest.... even then the insects and animals will own your ass.

[clean]

The Police aren't running the show, people are! They're there to serve and protect, not to act like snobby little personal bodyguards of an equally snobby celebrity.

They got the guns, but we got the numbers, eh?

Protest is an important part of my society. Falls in as part of the check and balances the founders had in mind. Protest, by it's very nature, tends to get out of hand. And when it does, things happen. Everyone on every side reacts dependent upon their experience. The snobby personal bodyguards you speak of are the same guys charged with keeping everyone, not lone protester, but everyone safe.
The protester made his point, got tasered for it, and the cops got to go home at night. Everyone should be more or less pleased.

[AlterMega]

The Police aren't running the show, people are! They're there to serve and protect, not to act like snobby little personal bodyguards of an equally snobby celebrity.
and the police make sure the show runs smoothly without any disturbances from hysterical trouble makers.I'm surprised they waited until after they had him on the ground with all the kicking,screaming,and resisting he was doing.

[Aerosoul]

http://pixjet.net/img/3935fe725c23e4af874b04b2e9c9d841/tase.jpg

[AgentX]

^Moot point^...has nothing to do anything.
Why? He is the longest standing jackass ever.


He got to speak... his turn was over but he decided otherwise.
We live in a society... he fought the social norm and paid the price.
This concept is as old as mankind itself.
He should have been beheaded in public to set an example, aye?


Your concept of the events are at best... comedy.
Wanna be totaly free? Go live in the forrest.... even then the insects and animals will own your ass.
You forgot thunderbolts - god's own little taser.

[Zoomie]

Why? He is the longest standing jackass ever.


He should have been beheaded in public to set an example, aye?


You forgot thunderbolts - god's own little taser.
Can you not make a coherent argument at all? You make silly refrences to Bush and beheadings that have nothing to add to this thread at all.

[Bia]

1.Why? He is the longest standing jackass ever.


2.He should have been beheaded in public to set an example, aye?


3.You forgot thunderbolts - god's own little taser.

1. You're correct. King Dubbya is an embarrassment however I'm smart enough to know I cant nor do I have any desire to taZe the Commander in Chief. I live in a society where this isnt acceptable and I can accept that.

2. No.... beheading someone for acting like a child is rather extreme... I suggest his Tazing seems to be just right. Harmless... effective... and makes me LOL.

3. Naaaa... if God is real... he isnt up there pulling levers and pushing buttons.
Read your bible... free will and all that jazz.

[AlterMega]

Why? He is the longest standing jackass ever.
If Bush ever resists arrest the way this jackass did then yes.Its not simply a vengeance by the cops onto the student.

[AgentX]

The protester made his point, got tasered for it, and the cops got to go home at night. Everyone should be more or less pleased.
In a society that is dead for all practical intents and purposes, I understand it isn't easy to defend the ones still feeling alive and up for questioning public representatives - or the clowns at the steering wheel.


and the police make sure the show runs smoothly without any disturbances from hysterical trouble makers.I'm surprised they waited until after they had him on the ground with all the kicking,screaming,and resisting he was doing.
Tell me, when you raise your hand if you do, do you wave it in support often?

[Bia]

In a society that is dead for all practical intents and purposes

LMAO... Oh, you're one of those people...
Full of woe and heartfelt gaga that doesnt exist.

I used to think a more perfect world could be had.... then reality kicked in.
haha

good luck with that.

PS, you can still be happy and giving and compassionate in a ****tyass world however there's no miracle or magic happyland over some near horizon... it's either half full or half empty my friend.

[clean]

In a society that is dead for all practical intents and purposes, I understand it isn't easy to defend the ones still feeling alive and up for questioning public representatives - or the clowns at the steering wheel.



How is this society dead? There is war, there is protest, there is discussion at all levels. There is art, music, fashion and literature.

there are those who show up everyday and try to make a difference. Then there are people like you, sipping your latte in an independent coffee house ranting about how the man is taking over and the droids just follow the party line day in and day out as they trudge off to their corporate jobs. Your circle of life is very limited. Step out of it and see what's going on. The tasered dude is not your messiah. He's just an idiot, who thought he had a good plan.

[little icebear]

He got to speak... his turn was over but he decided otherwise.
We live in a society... he fought the social norm and paid the price.
This concept is as old as mankind itself.



Have you watched the video?

[AgentX]

LMAO... Oh, you're one of those people...
Too bad I wasn't one of yours.

[Zoomie]

LMAO... Oh, you're one of those people...
Full of woe and heartfelt gaga that doesnt exist.

I used to think a more perfect world could be had.... then reality kicked in.
haha

good luck with that.
Just give peace a chaaaaaaance. . . .p-)

[Roids]

Just give peace a chaaaaaaance. . . .p-)

Peace and Utopia is boring. p-)

[clean]

Have you watched the video?

The only question he asked that had any merit was, "Didn't you want to be president?" And the answer is, probably not.

The kid asked, repeatedly, "What did I do?" Well, wrestle with law enforcement. Do your thing, Andy, but when five cops are on you, walk outside with them. It's easy, and the fight won't pass you by. Or as Kenny Rogers would say, "Know when to fold 'em."

[Bia]

Have you watched the video?
Twice.

Funny both times.

5 stars

[little icebear]

Geeze, I should just keep myself out of those political threads and just stick with looking at the military-pictures...
Quite a few of you guys here on mp.net have an attitude which is hardly understandable to me... if it wasn´t for the itching in my fingers, forcing me to reply every now and then, although I know I wont change sh*t.

[clean]

Geeze, I should just keep myself out of those political threads and just stick with looking at the military-pictures...
Quite a few of you guys here on mp.net have an attitude which is hardly understandable to me... if it wasn´t for the itching in my fingers, forcing me to reply every now and then, although I know I wont change sh*t.

What kind of lame ass passive agressive post is this? An attitude which is hardly understandable to you?! It's not an attitude, first of all. It's a f*cking point of view. And as far as changing anything, post intelligentlly and rationally and maybe you will change some minds.

[AgentX]

post intelligentlly and rationally and maybe you will change some minds.
People laughing at an old disabled woman tasered to death. Is posting intelligently really worth it?

[Zoomie]

People laughing at an old disabled woman tasered to death. Is posting intelligently really worth it?

WTF are you even talking about? Did you even bother to read the thread title once? :slap:

[clean]

People laughing at an old disabled woman tasered to death. Is posting intelligently really worth it?

I'm desparately trying to have an intelligent conversation with you. But I've come to the conclusion you're an idiot. Please go away... somewhere.

[AgentX]

WTF are you even talking about? Did you even bother to read the thread title once? :slap:
Here comes the coherence extremist. Cannot I even cite another thread of this very forum to make a point? :cantbeli:

[Zoomie]

Here comes the coherence extremist. Cannot I even cite another thread of this very forum to make a point? :cantbeli:

Sure you can, but let me know when you actually make a point. :roll:

[AgentX]

I'm desparately trying to have an intelligent conversation with you. But I've come to the conclusion you're an idiot. Please go away... somewhere.
You're not the first one to react like that under pressure.

[clean]

You're not the first one to react like that under pressure.

So alot of people think you're an idiot?

[little icebear]

I thought I made my point quiet clear. There was no reason to use a taser on him, just because he was not cooperative when it came to leaving the building. And I do think it is a question of attitude if someone thinks it´s okay to stun a guy rightaway ´cause he didn´t obbey in this situation.

(And by the way: I think the main reason why so many here are applauding is just because he´s some hippie/leftist with a strage political agenda... that should not be the matter. He was talking BS but he was not even offensive or insulting. He started screaming and complaining after they cut him off and tried to kick him out.)
Example - there is some aggressive Dude standing somewhere with an empty bottle of beer in his hands.
He is told to put the bottle away and to get down on the ground. If he doesn´t obey at once in such a situation, than it would be perfectly reasonable to use the tazer.
But this dork didn´t pose a threat to anyone. He was just acting in an annoying fashion. He was not an aggressive lunatic on the edge of going postal but just a nerd, tryin to spread his message.
That´s about it. It would have been possible and perfectly safe to remove him without any use of force more excessive than to drag and shove him away.
If that´s not possible for 5 or 6 or more cops... well, they have picked the wrong job. You know, handling physical confrontations is part of their job.
And they were not about to deal with an 200lbs thug high on speed and stuff...

Another question is, if it was necessary to remove him at all.

[Bia]

Here comes the coherence extremist. Cannot I even cite another thread of this very forum to make a point? :cantbeli:Mixing apples and oranges.

It's like arguing we shouldnt own guns because some guy killed some guy with one once.

Massive point fail

[clean]

Another question is, if it was necessary to remove him at all.

I do agree that that is the primary question. I don't think so. But they did, and he resisted to the end. Everyone knows, right or not, that when five cops tell you to do something, you do it. It's not the end, there are avenues to fight the perceived wrong. But in the moment, you walk away.
But he didn't. Got tasered. And now will probably sue for a situation he created.

[AlterMega]

And I do think it is a question of attitude if someone thinks it´s okay to stun a guy rightaway ´cause he didn´t obbey in this situation.
legally,yes if you resist arrest they can taser you.But the law doesn't matter in your eyes because you both seem to play off your own emotions as to whether or not you find it exceptable.Therefore you really have no argument-Just how you "feel".

[Bia]

Example - there is some aggressive Dude standing somewhere with an empty bottle of beer in his hands.
He is told to put the bottle away and to get down on the ground. If he doesn´t obey at once in such a situation, than it would be perfectly reasonable to use the tazer.
But this dork didn´t pose a threat to anyone. He was just acting in an annoying fashion. He was not an aggressive lunatic on the edge of going postal but just a nerd, tryin to spread his message.
That´s about it. It would have been possible and perfectly safe to remove him without any use of force more excessive than to drag and shove him away.
If that´s not possible for 5 or 6 or more cops... well, they have picked the wrong job. You know, handling physical confrontations is part of their job.
And they were not about to deal with an 200lbs thug high on speed and stuff...

Another question is, if it was necessary to remove him at all.
Well of course that would be ideal... but police officers know too well they can not predict anothers actions in a stressful situation.
SO... we now have a choice to comply or get taken down... taken down much safer than in the days gone by where an officer might introduce his batton to the bridge of your nose.

And YES.... he should have been taken away... he was yelling and disrupting a proceedure.... in society... we follow social norms. When you dont.... you draw attention to yourself.....which is exactly what this idiot wanted in my opinion.

Yes... taze the fukcc outta people... it's progress.

[wotsnext]

Five policemen PLUS tazer?

[AgentX]

So alot of people think you're an idiot?
Probably only a few who had their wits cheat on them while having a non-conversation with me.

[clean]

The guy also came in with a HUGE chip on his shoulder. And asked his questions, valid or not, in a beligerent way. The officers perceived a threat and reacted. And this guy fought back. Then they reacted again.
After the Virginia Tech thing, campus cops have a whole new world of problems that can happen. If they over reacted, it's because under reaction can cost lives.

[AgentX]

It's like arguing we shouldnt own guns because some guy killed some guy with one once.
More like - I can't keep up with the non-intellect of those applauding the bravehearts for killing an old women.

[little icebear]

Well of course that would be ideal... but police officers know too well they can not predict anothers actions in a stressful situation.


Talking about predicting peoples actions in a stressful situation... Are those campus cops "real" cops or rather some security guys?
I´m from Germany, here we don´t have something like a campus police, as far as I know.

[shocker1]

The cops in this are overbearing. bullies and the student was a jerk with no respect. Both parties are guilty of making a mountain out of a mole hill. People get dragged out of places all the time but this was an ugly display by all involved.

[clean]

More like - I can't keep up with the non-intellect of those applauding the bravehearts for killing an old women.

You seem to have a platform. So feel free to start a new thread and launch it. Otherwise, you have psuedo-hipster insights that are boring when people are trying to actually discuss what happened, and how it happened.

[Aerosoul]

Talking about predicting peoples actions in a stressful situation... Are those campus cops "real" cops or rather some security guys?
I´m from Germany, here we don´t have something like a campus police, as far as I know.

They are an accredited police department, they just happen to have "University" on their patches.

[clean]

Talking about predicting peoples actions in a stressful situation... Are those campus cops "real" cops or rather some security guys?
I´m from Germany, here we don´t have something like a campus police, as far as I know.

Campus police are real police, with arresting powers. Some school just have security. They detain, and call the real cops. Depends on the school.

[little icebear]

legally,yes if you resist arrest they can taser you.But the law doesn't matter in your eyes because you both seem to play off your own emotions as to whether or not you find it exceptable.Therefore you really have no argument-Just how you "feel".

Yeah. Obviously it´s a thing about the culture I come from. As I said, on the other side of the pond, clocks tick a little bit different than over here.

You know, in our law we have something that is called "Grundsatz der Verhältnismäßigkeit". Which basically means that the solution to a problem should be fitting.
I mentioned that I spend some years working for a security company. Now, If someone behaved badly and had to be removed from the event, I couldn´t go to him and beat the crap out of him, nor would I be allowed to use my mace or my collabsble batton.
This would be only justified if he resists in a violent way himself.
Cops are bound to similar rules. In some ways even stricter.

[clean]

The guy fought back though. Sure, maybe he didn't need to be tasered. But in what situation would you be allowed to use your mace or baton? How violent does he need to become? And who decides where hte level of violence warrants a baton or use of mace?

[Aerosoul]

Well it's really no different than that in the U.S. The thing with this situation is that the guy put up resistance and that resistance had to be met.

In one of the videos you can see him, as he is almost out the door with the police, make a sudden jump and this is when things escalated to the point that they did. It was the proper reaction for the police to jump on him and further restrain him.

[little icebear]

They are an accredited police department, they just happen to have "University" on their patches.

Thanks. I´m asking because they were acting not very professionell.

[clean]

Thanks. I´m asking because they were acting not very professionell.

Yes they were. You can argue whether or not taking him out was the right thing to do, but after they did, and he resisted, they acted VERY professional.

[little icebear]

The guy fought back though.

But only via passive resistence. He did not try to attack the officers, he just didn´t cooperate.


But in what situation would you be allowed to use your mace or baton? How violent does he need to become? And who decides where hte level of violence warrants a baton or use of mace?

At the end of the day, a judge has to make the decission. You see, I have been charged once for using a mace on a guy wielding a fence post. Of course the judged decided that I was acting in accordance with the law and that the mace was an tool appropriate to the threat.
But if that guy had been unarmed and just shoving me around, then it would have been possible that I´d get in trouble with the law if I had used a mace or my batton on him.

[Aerosoul]

But only via passive resistence. He did not try to attack the officers, he just didn´t cooperate.
Which is why they restrained him with non-lethal force.

[little icebear]

Yes they were. You can argue whether or not taking him out was the right thing to do, but after they did, and he resisted, they acted VERY professional.

They were not able to control his arms while he was pinned down on the ground...
Come on, ask me if I´ve ever been in such a terrible, stressful situation. :roll:

[clean]

Yeah, icebear, things are different here.

[clean]

They were not able to control his arms while he was pinned down on the ground...
:roll:

Hence the tasering. If they could've controled him, no taser. But he was fighting and they couldn't. = Taser

[little icebear]

Which is why they restrained him with non-lethal force.

Are you tryin´ to tell me, that he probably would have been shot if he had thrown some punches?!

[Aerosoul]

Are you tryin´ to tell me, that he probably would have been shot if he had thrown some punches?!
There are proper levels of response/procedure when dealing with violent and/or resisting individuals, I do not profess to know them all. I do not think simply punching warrants the use of a sidearm, but if an unarmed man attacks police, it is reasonable to assume he will try to grab the officer's weapon. It is at this point, if the officer is in a position to do so, that at least drawing the sidearm is warranted and expected.

Don't "quote" me on this, I'm certainly no officer.

[Hollis]

Are you tryin´ to tell me, that he probably would have been shot if he had thrown some punches?!


Your are really good for a chuckle. I would suggest reading some of the other forums, like SOCNET on this issue. Maybe go out, put on a uniform, work in some city urban jungle and get back to us.

[Bia]

Lets not forget he was begging for bystanders to "remember me because they're probably going to kill me"

He said this multiple times... if not mentally ill... he's a douchebag at best.
Either way... Tazing is awesome and I fully support it.
I long for the day it's just like Star Trek where there's no wires or probes.... just a coolass beam...
The Federation has Stun & Heavy Stun
lolz

[wicked_hind]

They were not able to control his arms while he was pinned down on the ground...
Come on, ask me if I´ve ever been in such a terrible, stressful situation. :roll:

Read clean's response to your above post over and over again.

[AlterMega]

Are you tryin´ to tell me, that he probably would have been shot if he had thrown some punches?!
no,that's only if you're an armed threat,and even then you have to have your gun out or be suspected of reaching for a gun to justify being shot by a lethal weapon-A threat to an officer's life.Less than lethal weapons are used to subdue.

[wicked_hind]

Lets not forget he was begging for bystanders to "remember me because they're probably going to kill me"

He said this multiple times... if not mentally ill... he's a douchebag at best.
Either way... Tazing is awesome and I fully support it.
I long for the day it's just like Star Trek where there's no wires or probes.... just a coolass beam...
The Federation has Stun & Heavy Stun
lolz

You're on my cool list, Bia.

[Death.]

I was called a fascist/non-patriot when I told someone that I thought the police acted rightfully and the kid's rights were not violated. lol.

[wicked_hind]

I was called a fascist/non-patriot when I told someone that I thought the police acted rightfully and the kid's rights were not violated. lol.

And people say that words don't hurt, there you go :hug:

[Death.]

And people say that words don't hurt, there you go :hug:

:( hold me

Here's something I was sent, LOL

dude, you are too far out, you are ****ing whacked. im done discussing this with you, all i can do is be thankful that most people arent as ****ed in the head as you are.
I told him to read the discussion on these boards and he'd probably think everyone here is a crazy ****...rofl

[clean]

How dare you post our private correspondence! Your dead to me D3at. DEAD!!!
(And no more reach arounds for you, either.)

[Death.]

Police report, if anyone's interested:
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/09/18/offense.report.072274.pdf

lol clean^^

[Hollis]

How dare you post our private correspondence! Your dead to me D3at. DEAD!!!
(And no more reach arounds for you, either.)


What has this younger generation turned in to........... :cantbeli:

[clean]

http://www.theandrewmeyer.com/

Here's the poor victims website.

[clean]

What has this younger generation turned in to........... :cantbeli:

You guys started it.

[Hollis]

You guys started it.
I was with those cute hippie chicks at the Love-in, what are you talking about?

My generation was into wild gratuitous *** with babes, Cute babes, but babes none the less.

[clean]

I was with those cute hippie chicks at the Love-in, what are you talking about?

My generation was into wild gratuitous *** with babes, Cute babes, but babes none the less.

And look where it got us. Thanks. Hope you sleep well with the memories of hot hippie chicks. I'm stuck with... well, this.

[little icebear]

As I stated... I have a different cultural background. Laconian wrote it in a quite understandable way.


Some agencies place its use very low on their use of force continuum ("Sir, you're going to have to come with us." "I ain't going nowh"....zzzzzaaaaappppp).

Where I come from, hurting people is pretty much last resort and only justified if those to be confronted are about to hurt themselfes or someone else.

There are steps of escalation when things get physical. The Taser isn´t even in use here, as far as I know, because it is considered to be to dangerous.
But hey, different country, different ROEs. Apparantly most people around here consider it to be okay, but it is a military-related forum which surely attracts people whose opinions are rather right-leaning and pro die-hard-law&order.
Call me a liberal pussy.


Read clean's response to your above post over and over again.

I did. Found it rather poor to see how difficult it was for so many officers to control a whinning nerd. He fought back? Well, whatever you call "fighting"...


Your are really good for a chuckle. I would suggest reading some of the other forums, like SOCNET on this issue. Maybe go out, put on a uniform, work in some city urban jungle and get back to us.

Thank you but I´ve had my share of saturday night brawling. I´m perfectly happy that today I can earn my money in a less risky enviroment.



Lets not forget he was begging for bystanders to "remember me because they're probably going to kill me"
He said this multiple times... if not mentally ill... he's a douchebag at best.


So what? It doesn´t matter that he´s a retard and an attention whore.


Either way... Tazing is awesome and I fully support it.Yeah, of course... ever tried it out? I was dumb enough. It´s not really funny.
That´s by the way what I meant with "attitude I can´t understand". They´ve tazed some leftist! Cool! :roll:

[Hollis]

Thanks. Hope you sleep well with the memories of hot hippie chicks.


Yes I do very well thank you, and I never have to worry about rolling out of bed either...........


Flowers in her Hair, Flowers everywhere, I love my flower girl...........

[Pook2]

The police report pretty well ends this debate, although there are plenty of people who are either too immature or too stupid to realize the obvious conclusion.

[Calanen]

Extract from the Report posted above: http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/0...ort.072274.pdf (http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/09/18/offense.report.072274.pdf)


As Senator Kerry was ending his speech, a man disrupted the senator by screaming, yelling, and flailing his arms. The man moved his way down the aisle yelling, "Why don't you answer my questions, I have been waiting and listening to you speak in circles for the last two hours."


"These officers are going to arrest me". I didn't see any officer directly next to him until I noticed Officer Wise walking down trying to get his attention. The man was screaming and yelling obscenities until Senator


Kerry told him to calm down and that he would take his
question, but he needed to calm down. At that point, the man stated, "You will take my question because I have been listening to your crap for two hours".


The man at that point turned to his friend and said, "Are you taping this? Do you have this? You ready?" The man was talking to a woman who was there to film him. Before asking the question, I had a chance
to ask the man if he was a student and he stated, "I don't have to tell you."


I the asked him if he knew the rules to the student code of conduct and he said, "What?" I informed the man that after he asked Senator Kerry the question that I needed to talk to him outside.


After asking the question, the man would not let Senator Kerry finish his statement and kept badgering the senator about his beliefs, talking about "blow jobs", and yelling as loud as he could as to sensationalize his presence.


At that moment the Accent Director, Max Tyroler, asked us to take him out of the auditorium and had his microphone turned off stating, "He had said enough." Officer Wise and I grabbed both of the man's arms and asked him to come with us out of the auditorium to speak with us.


The man then lifted me up and pushed Officer Wise to avoid being taken into custody. As he pushed and kicked Officer Wise, Sgt. King grabbed him and escorted him out of the room, but the man pushed Sgt. King out of the way and was yelling and trying to get back down the aisle.


At this point Officer Sexton, Officer De Jesus, and Officer Lamb tried to
assist Officer Wise and Sgt King in getting a hold of the punching and kicking irate man while Officer Dean, Officer Passero, and Officer Spurlin were present trying to assist. The man continued to scream and yell as well as push, kick, and elbow the officers attempting to
take him into custody. After multiple attempts to tell him to stop resisting, the man said,


"No" and continued to push and elbow the officers. Only one handcuff was placed on the man as he continued to punch his way out of the hold.


This kid needed a major cop beat down. What a knucklehead.

[Polygon]

Blow jobs? I don't recall that being brought up in the kid's mindless rant.

[little icebear]

I´ve seen the vid in several durations and from several angles now and there are many things in the report wich I can´t recall. Not only the Blowjobs...

Edit: Oh, wait. I think he said it in the context of impeachment. That´s true.

[snoddy]

he said clinton got a blow job and we tried to impeach him for it

[Bia]

Yeah, of course... ever tried it out? I was dumb enough. It´s not really funny.
That´s by the way what I meant with "attitude I can´t understand". They´ve tazed some leftist! Cool! :roll:
No I have never been tazed.
Have seen many people tazed and the mass majority get up and are fine.
The ones doing it voluntarily are always laughing when they get up.

I'm going to stick to my argument getting Tazed by the police is far better than getting a nightstick across the bridge of the nose or put into a choke hold.

You bring politics into this... I'd LOL the same if I saw GW or Hillary get tazed.
Funny is funny.

[Hollis]

You bring politics into this... I'd LOL the same if I saw GW or Hillary get tazed.
Funny is funny.

That is excellent Idea. Imagine if GW or Hillary would allow you to tase them if you donate to their compaign for a large amount of $$$$.

It would be the first time those opposing a candidate would donate huge sources of cash to that candidates campaign.

I hope Hillary does not read MP.NET.

[metalgolem]

This little attention whore got what he wanted to..free media coverage.
I'd say that his histrionics and intentions were premeditated before he walked into the auditorium.

Whatever the campus police did, he was going to have filmed and used for his own whiny b*tch web fodder.

As a student of the campus he is subject to a code of conduct which the campus police can enforce.

As you can tell, they didn't taser him while he was yelling at Kerry.

They escalated their response to minimize his resistance to their lawful
apprehension of him.

Tasing had the desired effect - it broke his resistance enough for them to handcuff him. Simple and effective.

[zonk]

to me viewing this yes the guy was out of line but how many damn officers does it take. looks like they had 4 people on him already, seems a bit excessive.