Vatican States Prison Abuse Worse Than 9/11

[XASA]

The prison abuse scandal has made for some really bizarre comments not only from some militaryphotos.net forum members but also from such unexpected sources as the Vatican. In this case, a New York lawmaker scolded the Vatican's foreign minister for the pot calling the kettle black, and he didn't even bring up the subject of the Vatican's cooperation with the Nazis during and after WWII.

One wonders why the Vatican and some of those who post here didn't speak out against Saddam when he was gassing Kurds and torturing his own people. One has to assume they dislike America more than they dislike tyrants.

N.Y. pol blasts Vatican 'hypocricy' for Iraq abuse protest

'If there's anyone in the world who has no right to speak on ****** abuse, it's the Vatican'

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS


WASHINGTON — Catholic lawmaker Peter King ripped Church leaders as hypocrites Thursday for the Vatican’s foreign minister claim that the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal is worse for America than the Sept. 11 attacks.
“If there’s anyone in the world who has no right to speak on ****** abuse, it’s the Vatican,” said Rep. King, an anti-abortion Republican. “This is the height of hypocrisy.”

In an interview published Wednesday in the Rome daily La Repubblica, Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo described the abuses as “a tragic episode in the relationship with Islam” and said the scandal would fuel hatred for the West and for Christianity.

“The torture? A more serious blow to the United States than Sept. 11. Except that the blow was not inflicted by terrorists but by Americans against themselves,” Lajolo was quoted as saying.

Disturbing photographs of Iraqi prisoners being abused and ******ly humiliated by American military at the Abu Ghraib prison have stunned the world, and prompted some Democrats to call for Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to resign or be fired.

King said the Catholic Church should be the last group to claim moral high ground on issues of ****** abuse, given the past several years of revelations about priests abusing children for years while church officials failed to stop such behavior.

“Whatever the United States has done to prisoners in Iraq is nothing compared to what priests and nuns did to Catholic kids for decades while the Catholic hierarchy covered it up,” King said.

“Think of the thousands of kids in the U.S. and Ireland who were abused by priests and nuns — you wonder where the Vatican’s moral compass is.”

King argued the U.S. military’s investigation into the prison abuses show America has responded admirably to the abuse problem. In contrast, the church has not done enough to fix its own problems or apologize for them, he said.

William Donohue, president of the Catholic League, said the archbishop’s statements show anti-American sentiment within the Vatican.

“This man is an absolute embarrassment to the Catholic Church. I read that and I was just boiling over,” said Donohue.

Donohue said he disagreed with King’s contention that the church should not speak out about abuse issues, but called the archbishop’s comparison of the abuse scandal to Sept. 11 “singularly irresponsible, insulting, and anti-American.”

Originally published on May 13, 2004

[Uncle Sam]

Talk about jumping on the bandwagon....They got caught with their pants down...hahahahahaha

[ikurinturbiini]

Vatican also sez using condoms is a sin, and that raped teenagers have no right to an abortion. They also seem to believe in a supreme being, and that a 90-year old Polish guy is his representative on Earth.

Dumbasses.




edited for typo.

[Threelions]

Just want to get the boots in on this topic. I dont believe for a second that anyone on either side of the iraqi military operation argument gave a rats ass about the kurds. No body cared, be it republican, democrat, euro or yank, it was a side note. So, getting cross because people are pissed at the prison thing but not at the kurd thing is a poor comparison. That comparison only serves one purpose, and that purpose is to make the left look evil and vicious despite the fact that the right are just as guilty. Secondly, we should all be extra angry with the current situation because it envolves our militaries! these are institutions which we hold in such a high regard and we expect them to honour our moral values and us as individuals and nations by reflect our own strict ethical codes. Be angry, be very angry at the current situation. Our democratic systems demand that we be more critical of our own systems then those of other nations. This has nothing to do with hating america more then tyrants. Failure to be critical results in Sheeple! America isnt the victim here.

Cheers

[Kitsune]

This Lajolo guy said:“The torture? A more serious blow to the United States than Sept. 11. Except that the blow was not inflicted by terrorists but by Americans against themselves.”

That is something different than to say: "These Abu Ghraib abuses are are worse a crime than the 9/11 attack."

Just think about it.

[scm77]

Then Catholic Church said the US shouldn't ******ly abuse prisoners, then Michael Jackson said the Catholic Church shouldn't rape little boys. rofl

[weedman]

Proud to be an atheist :lol:

[Herrmannek]

I like people having opinion about things they know **** about...

[scm77]

Proud to be an atheist :lol:

I hear ya.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Don't see what all the hubbub is - they're probably right. The Vatican isn't saying that the abuse itself was worse (in absolute terms) than what happened on 9/11 - they're saying that it's more damaging to the US.

We can rebuild the towers & the Pentagon - heal the wounds of loss & move on. But to the rest of the world (particularly the Muslim world) the abuse pictures will be trotted out, put on signs, posted on websites etc forever as evidence of proof of the "great Satan". We'll be seeing these pics for the next 20 years. They'll be very hard to "undo".

Speaking of jumping on bandwagons - look at the people here jumping all over the Vatican without even reading what they said (or maybe they don't understand it).

[scm77]

If people hated the US enought to fly planes into buildings already, I don't think a couple naked pyramids are going to do that much damage.

[Threelions]

Don't see what all the hubbub is - they're probably right. The Vatican isn't saying that the abuse itself was worse (in absolute terms) than what happened on 9/11 - they're saying that it's more damaging to the US.

We can rebuild the towers & the Pentagon - heal the wounds of loss & move on. But to the rest of the world (particularly the Muslim world) the abuse pictures will be trotted out, put on signs, posted on websites etc forever as evidence of proof of the "great Satan". We'll be seeing these pics for the next 20 years. They'll be very hard to "undo".

Speaking of jumping on bandwagons - look at the people here jumping all over the Vatican without even reading what they said (or maybe they don't understand it).

Very well said!!

Cheers

[Denat]

They also seem to believe in a supreme being, and that a 90-year old Polish guy is his representative on Earth.
Dumbasses.


That's their problem in what they believe, not yours. I don't agree with everything that the Roman-Catholic Church says, especially I don't agree with their point of view on contracception.
But I have GREATEST RESPECT for

that 90-year old Polish guy
who is by the way better man than many and with no doubt much better man than you. And you seem to be just another one DUMBASS.
Have a nice day, DUMBASS.

[usa320]

See i believe in God and prayer and the teachings of catholicism, but after the *** abuse scandal, their position on birth control, and their asinine comments with regard to the war, i dont consider the vatican any authority anymore.

[Herrmannek]

See i believe in God and prayer and the teachings of catholicism, but after the *** abuse scandal, their position on birth control, and their asinine comments with regard to the war, i dont consider the vatican any authority anymore.

Vatican hasn't much to say about national churches. Vatican's main role is to lead the way.. RCC isn't military organisation with strict hierachical structure(it has many gaps on the way down) and doesn't have law court or any way to punish insubordinatiing persons. Priests in that case. Local law should take care of them not church wich role isn't to punish anyone, esspecialy it can't revoke priest pledge as it is deal with God and that person, not with church. Church can only remove them from some outposts...

[fdt]

Proud to be an atheist :lol:Why?

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Whatever the Vatican says its just going to be pushed back on them, especially about "abuse's"....its like taking a lecture about not abusing women from a convicted wife beater....


Proud to be an atheist
Same, and I'm sure if there was a god he wouldnt mind us making decisions for ourselves (especially consdering that "men of the cloth" have done much worse over the ages).

[Denat]

Vatican's main role is to lead the way..
I thought that Rangers always lead the way ;)
But if you say it's Vatican, maybe you're right :P

[fdt]

I love that blah blah bad catholic... bad muslim etc...

I am not catholic, not protestant, not jewish, not muslim... no religion at all, but reading or hearing such a statements makes me dizzy. WTF do You know about the people who believe in God and do smth for other men instead of foolishly talking. Any religion has moronic priests, clerics etc, any of them has rightful people who work hard sacrificing their lives to help other people and expecting nothing in return.
What makes all us here better than these women and men who go to the people who nobody wants to remember and help them... Do You think it's easy to throw it all and go to Africa or anywhere else where are people whom nobody cares about? What have You done for the people in real need to be authorized to criticise all catholics, protestants or whoever of different point of view. What makes You better than those women (who happen to be catholic nuns) working in Rwanda with orphan kids. Would You have balls to go there as them?

http://www.smnda.org/assets/pictures/leoniehake_child_135.jpg

http://www.smnda.org/assets/pictures/Willhemina_enfant_mother_200.jpg

Bitc*ing at catholics or muslim or jewish or any religion in extenso is an act of unfair and primitive generalisation. Talking about the past crimes of catholics? Don't forget to mention the crimes of past commited by atheists (commies in Russia, Jacobins in France and Chinese commies too etc, etc), the same applies to the Protestants, Jewish, Muslim etc. etc. The past was more violent than You think. The infamous Holy Inquisition has killed a fraction of victims that "waring atheists" have on their account.

Throwing a stone, pls be more careful who You are You really aiming.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

fdt who are you aimin that at?

[2Sheds_Jackson]

This cuts both ways.

If you're willing to condemn the entire Catholic Church for the actions of a few priests who were violating (not following) church teachings - then you have to be willing to condemn the entire US military for the actions of these 7 people.

I'm not willing to do either. But it's pretty clear that both the US & the Vatican have lost some credibiliy due to the rogue actions of a very few of their people & it sucks all around.

[fdt]

fdt who are you aimin that at?At all who say... 2000 years of catholicism is only a record of wars, burning witches and ****** assaults on kids. At all who say... all Muslims are murderers, Islam is a primitive and violent religion. At all who say similar things of Jewish, Protestants, Animists, Hindu, Shinto, Buddhists and other religious groups and denominations. At all who are proud to be.... better than others only because they are catholics, protestants, muslim or atheists...

[fdt]

This cuts both ways.

If you're willing to condemn the entire Catholic Church for the actions of a few priests who were violating (not following) church teachings - then you have to be willing to condemn the entire US military for the actions of these 7 people.

I'm not willing to do either. But it's pretty clear that both the US & the Vatican have lost some credibiliy due to the rogue actions of a very few of their people & it sucks all around.Very well put.

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

fdt who are you aimin that at?At all who say... 2000 years of catholicism is only a record of wars, burning witches and ****** assaults on kids. At all who say... all Muslims are murderers, Islam is a primitive and violent religion. At all who say similar things of Jewish, Protestants, Animists, Hindu, Shinto, Buddhists and other religious groups and denominations. At all who are proud to be.... better than others only because they are catholics, protestants, muslim or atheists...

good point fdt..unfortuneatly in life the negative always seems to get more "light" then the positive.

peace buddy

[Threelions]

See i believe in God and prayer and the teachings of catholicism, but after the *** abuse scandal, their position on birth control, and their asinine comments with regard to the war, i dont consider the vatican any authority anymore.

Uh oh, thats the makings of a protestant!! rofl Personaly i think most major religions are a pile of horse poo, but hey, if it gets you through the day, then all the best.

Cheers

[ikurinturbiini]

They also seem to believe in a supreme being, and that a 90-year old Polish guy is his representative on Earth.
Dumbasses.


That's their problem in what they believe, not yours. I don't agree with everything that the Roman-Catholic Church says, especially I don't agree with their point of view on contracception.
But I have GREATEST RESPECT for

that 90-year old Polish guy
who is by the way better man than many and with no doubt much better man than you. And you seem to be just another one DUMBASS.
Have a nice day, DUMBASS.

And he SCORES! woot We have a winner!

[fdt]

And he SCORES! woot We have a winner!

Winner? Care 2B more precise, what You're after?

[ikurinturbiini]

And he SCORES! woot We have a winner!

Winner? Care 2B more precise, what You're after?

Oh, nothing much really. I was just expecting the first one to pull the "right or wrong, he's the Pope, end of story"-kind of reply. He beat others to it.

If you're thinking of posting something like "And?", I'll be more precise:

The Pope and Vatican contribute to population explosion, spreading of HIV/AIDS and immeasurable suffering on a personal level by

-condemning birth control in any practical form
-condemning abortion even in cases where a girl has been raped by a close relative
-trying to prevent distribution of condoms to HIV-infested areas through public condemnation by church officials and clerics
-condemning spreading of information and ****** education

The list goes on. Think Mother Teresa is a saint? She will be, thanks to the Pope, but for all the good she did, she was a part of the problem by abiding to the rules set by his Holiness: breed as much you like, God will provide, praise Him. Ever been to Kalkutta? Mumbai? Sao Paulo? Johannesburg? Botswana? Anywhere in rural Africa? (edited to add: these are not examples of the Catholic Church's work but those of population explosion; I'll add Lagos, Cairo and Mexico City to give width to the argument) For all its good intentions and the undisputable good in people working for the church, the Pope is Dark Ages incarnated. Having never had *** himself, he's telling the poorest people of the world not to stop multiplying or face God's wrath.

Yeah, Karol Vojtyla is a very important old man and an icon for billions of God-fearing good people across the globe. He's also an old geezer hopelessly out of touch and should resign. I have no respect for the man for being a relic of the Middle Ages, no matter what good he has done during the Cold War.

Clear 'nuff?

(I know I'm going to Hell, but I'm fireproof. Save your breath.)

[fdt]

And he SCORES! woot We have a winner!

Winner? Care 2B more precise, what You're after?

Oh, nothing much really. I was just expecting the first one to pull the "right or wrong, he's the Pope, end of story"-kind of reply. He beat others to it.

If you're thinking of posting something like "And?", I'll be more precise:

The Pope and Vatican contribute to population explosion, spreading of HIV/AIDS and immeasurable suffering on a personal level by

-condemning birth control in any practical form
-condemning abortion even in cases where a girl has been raped by a close relative
-trying to prevent distribution of condoms to HIV-infested areas through public condemnation by church officials and clerics
-condemning spreading of information and ****** education

The list goes on. Think Mother Teresa is a saint? She will be, thanks to the Pope, but for all the good she did, she was a part of the problem by abiding to the rules set by his Holiness: breed as much you like, God will provide, praise Him. Ever been to Kalkutta? Mumbai? Sao Paulo? Johannesburg? Botswana? Anywhere in rural Africa? (edited to add: these are not examples of the Catholic Church's work but those of population explosion; I'll add Lagos, Cairo and Mexico City to give width to the argument) For all its good intentions and the undisputable good in people working for the church, the Pope is Dark Ages incarnated. Having never had *** himself, he's telling the poorest people of the world not to stop multiplying or face God's wrath.

Yeah, Karol Vojtyla is a very important old man and an icon for billions of God-fearing good people across the globe. He's also an old geezer hopelessly out of touch and should resign. I have no respect for the man for being a relic of the Middle Ages, no matter what good he has done during the Cold War.

Clear 'nuff?

(I know I'm going to Hell, but I'm fireproof. Save your breath.)

Hmmm. So it is the Catholic Churchs' condemnation of condom use a main cause for:
- overpopulation,
- hunger,
- AIDS spread,
- ****** abuse of minors,
- incest

Correct?

So Your idea of fighting the hunger, overpopulation, ****** abuse and incest (AIDS is a different thing for obvious reasons) is to give to the Africans the condoms? Hmmm interesting idea.

Overpopulation counter measures for white and asians: equal right for the women+carrer opportunities for women+subsidized contraceptives+condom=less children.

Overpopulation counter measures for Africans: condom.

Hunger fighting measures for white and asians: democracy+stable political system reducing the risk of violent conflicts+free economy+tariffs+subsidies for agriculture=no hunger.

Hunger fighting measures for Africans: condom (why lift the food export subsidies and/or tariffs?).

****** abuse counter measures for white and Asians: education+equal right for the women+carrer opportunities for women+cultural and legal background+respective laws+law enforcement=less ****** related crimes.

****** abuse counter measures for Africans: condom.

AIDS spread counter measures for white and Asians: education+ hygiene+ costly public health services+ medicine subsidies (Pharmaceutical business is not very cooperative with their pricing policies)+condom.

AIDS spread counter measures for Africans: condom.

[Herrmannek]

@ikurinturbiini
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4232/pope-yours.jpg

[mack pl]

@ikurinturbiini
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/4232/pope-yours.jpg"takiego wała jak Polska cała" rofl

[2Sheds_Jackson]

And he SCORES! woot We have a winner!

Winner? Care 2B more precise, what You're after?

Oh, nothing much really. I was just expecting the first one to pull the "right or wrong, he's the Pope, end of story"-kind of reply. He beat others to it.

If you're thinking of posting something like "And?", I'll be more precise:

The Pope and Vatican contribute to population explosion, spreading of HIV/AIDS and immeasurable suffering on a personal level by

-condemning birth control in any practical form
-condemning abortion even in cases where a girl has been raped by a close relative
-trying to prevent distribution of condoms to HIV-infested areas through public condemnation by church officials and clerics
-condemning spreading of information and ****** education

The list goes on. Think Mother Teresa is a saint? She will be, thanks to the Pope, but for all the good she did, she was a part of the problem by abiding to the rules set by his Holiness: breed as much you like, God will provide, praise Him. Ever been to Kalkutta? Mumbai? Sao Paulo? Johannesburg? Botswana? Anywhere in rural Africa? (edited to add: these are not examples of the Catholic Church's work but those of population explosion; I'll add Lagos, Cairo and Mexico City to give width to the argument) For all its good intentions and the undisputable good in people working for the church, the Pope is Dark Ages incarnated. Having never had *** himself, he's telling the poorest people of the world not to stop multiplying or face God's wrath.

Yeah, Karol Vojtyla is a very important old man and an icon for billions of God-fearing good people across the globe. He's also an old geezer hopelessly out of touch and should resign. I have no respect for the man for being a relic of the Middle Ages, no matter what good he has done during the Cold War.

Clear 'nuff?

(I know I'm going to Hell, but I'm fireproof. Save your breath.)

I'm no big fan of the Pope, but I think you may be the one who's hopelessly out of touch. Why would you distort the Church & the Pope's dictates like this? Are you saying that the Pope is telling people to simply go out and breed like rabbits?

You're forgetting the part about forming a committed monogamous life-long pair bond before you ever have ***.. You know, where you don't have *** until you are married, and you don't screw around. Why would you need a magic latex bullet if you never have ***?

And don't hand me the line about how it's unrealistic & can't be done. It's been done for hundreds of years. It may not be everybody's cup of tea, but its' logic and effectiveness are without question.

The Pope's model; two people wait until they've known each other for years, and have verified that they're compatible & both mentally and physically healthy. Then they get married. Then they have children. Then they commit themselves to raising the children. Then they stay married & never have *** with any other partners.

Africa is a sh*thole (in part) because of rampant out-of-wedlock ****** activity. Children are born to single mothers that cannot support them. And as a bonus, lots of the mothers soon die from AIDS, the kid is alone & has it's own death sentence. Multiple partners spread disease like wildfire. People are dropping like flies.

In the West, we have a lot of money & we use our technology to overcome the natural human condition. We have modified our moral code to allow the termination of pregnancy up to & including birth for convenience's sake. We have medical technology to suppress the diseases that naturally accompanies promiscuous ***. So we can sort of have our cake and eat it too.

In the West, our economy is largely driven by the motto "if it feels good, do it". *** and titillation are milti-billion dollar industries. We depend on it. *** sells everything from car parts to breakfast cereal. But since we have the tools to cheat nature, so we don't pay too much of a price for it.

Africa doesn't have these goodies. They are moving into a more western style culture, while not having our tools at their disposal. So we have effectively poisoned them. They face the full fury of what comes naturally when you live our lifestyle - illegitimate children, disease on a massive scale, etc. etc. There are two ways out; get Africa to develop economically to match the West, or have Africa return to a traditional social structure.

I don't personally subscribe to the Pope's model for how to live one's life - but it is entirely unfair to blame the Church under false pretenses. If Africa was following all the Pope's rules they would likely be a social, military and economic powerhouse to rival the west.

[WARPIG]

Great post 2 sheds.

I just want to add to your comments. ( if you don't mind)

The most common reaction to insecurity is to attack opponents. Much like most Athiests are offended and insulted by anything spiritual, religious, or of faith. I have mentioned this before. Ever notice how those who have no faith often make it a point to accost or look down at those who do? Just a pattern that I see. I used to be that way. Before I grew enough to welcome Christianity in my life, I enjoyed seeing clergy and religion being exposed or blamed for all kinds of moral stupidity. Evangelists exposed for corruption and infidelity. Priests being charged with ****** misconduct. Religious zealots committing acts of murder, terror, mass suicide, cults.. etc. I loved watching Faith being questioned and dragged through the dirt. It gave me justification for not having any faith myself. It made me feel more secure in my dis-belief.

I have found faith recently and don't need to compare it to any other, justify it against another, nor do I need proof of my belief. This is a condition of Faith.. not religion.

Most religion, has to discredit all other religion if it truly believes in itself. If Muslims truly believe in Islamic ways of life... then all others must be wrong. They act in accordance. Christians call their faith, and Jesus Christ, the truth. This means that they believe all other religion is false. Some people have to justify their faith, and way of life through religion. I have simply found Faith in my way of life. Religion are the rules that tell us what our faiths are. If you don't fall in, your not really of that faith. Problem with that is that the rules were written or interpreted by other men. Men are fallible. I chose Christianity because it most closely mirrors my own Faith in how I should live my life. I don't need to discredit another religion, or condemn another's actions based on my Religious preference. I can speak of my anger, shame and disdain about the actions of my fellow soldiers based on simple moral integrity. Those soldiers represent me whether I like it or not. And, I suffer their unforgivavle behavior. I will save the rest of my thoughts on that later. I apologize for my lengthy post.

[WARPIG]

sorry for the double post.

[ikurinturbiini]

Great. So now I'm mustamato's evil twin. :roll:

Some of you make great points, bravo. You know your stuff. Those who open their mouth mainly because you're Catholic and/or Polish, get a grip.

I didn't post to gain friends. I know poverty, I know Africa. I know AIDS. Superstition is in some parts of the world the n:o 1 enemy of education, mainly ****** education. Catholic Church is in that respect very powerful and dangerous kind of superstition. The bush doctors have nothing compared to the Holy See.

Condoms are not the magic bullet. Catholicism is not bad. But the Pope is contributing to death and suffering clinging to his 11th century views. It's time for him to go or shut up. How do you feel about a geriatric case ruling the minds of 1/5 of the world's population? Think USSR. Think Mao. Being always right is a sure way to get out of touch which, sadly, I'm not.

Mods, if you feel like it, run IP search and PM it to those who are interested. I'm not typing this in a student dorm in Helsinki getting drunk and hating the world, and I'm not a kid. Anyone, PM me if you feel like sharing.

Sometimes people are right even though you disagree. End of discussion from my part. And yes, I know I'm going to Hell. I hate harp music anyway, and in Hell you get an accordion. (Had to add this so nobody will think I'm crying myself to sleep;) ).

Guess I can remove Poles from my Christmas card list? The Russkies are out already.

[Loco]

Just one correction about something I read before, frenchs jacobins weren´t atheists, some of them may be, but it wasn´t a definition of their ideology.
I have some criticisms to do against Vatican, but now I haven´t enough animous for that, I´ve finished my job, it´s the evening, a beauty evening here, and it´s week end! I´ll write widely about this in other moment, just saying that I find Vatican is disoriented and clearly doens´t know how to face the challenges of western world, they have lost the momentum and are back the society, but regarding the matters of third world is a different question.
And about my religious background, well, I don´t know what to believe, so I suppose that makes me an agnostic, culturally I´m a catholic because I was born in a deep catholic country, some relatives of me are missionaries in other countries, my direct familiy is not religious and my grandparents had many problems with church in the spanish war and postwar, even so I was sent to a jesuit school, although never I was raped nor my friends :roll: (were we ugly?), jesuits never oblied us to go to the church in the school and this is something many americans friends of me never understood, so I left the school being an agnostic like I´m now but with a big admiration to many jesuits I met, brilliant people and a few of them I suspect agnostics like me.
So I don´t know what to believe, but I know what I don´t believe nor I want to believe: I don´t believe in a pyramidal religious hierarchy or religious hierarchy of any kind, I find all is a question of terrenal power, and in this question I´m biased because the behaviour of catholic hierarchy in my country in recent times, I talk of basque country; nor I believe in a supreme human opinion leader, I trust in my mind and in my common sense, in the same way I trust in the common sense of greater part of people.
The case of tortures in Iraq? I agree fully with the Pope in this, the same in what he said before regarding the beginning of the Iraq war. I´d like to listen what are the opinions of those hard defenders of the Pope in this thread regarding his opinions about the Irak war, it seems there´s a gap in Irak between the Pole of Rome and the poles of the forum, p-)
Have a good week end.

[WARPIG]

Great. So now I'm mustamato's evil twin. :roll:

Some of you make great points, bravo. You know your stuff. Those who open their mouth mainly because you're Catholic and/or Polish, get a grip.

I didn't post to gain friends. I know poverty, I know Africa. I know AIDS. Superstition is in some parts of the world the n:o 1 enemy of education, mainly ****** education. Catholic Church is in that respect very powerful and dangerous kind of superstition. The bush doctors have nothing compared to the Holy See.

Condoms are not the magic bullet. Catholicism is not bad. But the Pope is contributing to death and suffering clinging to his 11th century views. It's time for him to go or shut up. How do you feel about a geriatric case ruling the minds of 1/5 of the world's population? Think USSR. Think Mao. Being always right is a sure way to get out of touch which, sadly, I'm not.

Mods, if you feel like it, run IP search and PM it to those who are interested. I'm not typing this in a student dorm in Helsinki getting drunk and hating the world, and I'm not a kid. Anyone, PM me if you feel like sharing.

Sometimes people are right even though you disagree. End of discussion from my part. And yes, I know I'm going to Hell. I hate harp music anyway, and in Hell you get an accordion. (Had to add this so nobody will think I'm crying myself to sleep;) ).

Guess I can remove Poles from my Christmas card list? The Russkies are out already.


A great many people mistake opinions for thoughts.
~Herbert V. Prochnow

[ikurinturbiini]

Great. So now I'm mustamato's evil twin. :roll:

Some of you make great points, bravo. You know your stuff. Those who open their mouth mainly because you're Catholic and/or Polish, get a grip.

I didn't post to gain friends. I know poverty, I know Africa. I know AIDS. Superstition is in some parts of the world the n:o 1 enemy of education, mainly ****** education. Catholic Church is in that respect very powerful and dangerous kind of superstition. The bush doctors have nothing compared to the Holy See.

Condoms are not the magic bullet. Catholicism is not bad. But the Pope is contributing to death and suffering clinging to his 11th century views. It's time for him to go or shut up. How do you feel about a geriatric case ruling the minds of 1/5 of the world's population? Think USSR. Think Mao. Being always right is a sure way to get out of touch which, sadly, I'm not.

Mods, if you feel like it, run IP search and PM it to those who are interested. I'm not typing this in a student dorm in Helsinki getting drunk and hating the world, and I'm not a kid. Anyone, PM me if you feel like sharing.

Sometimes people are right even though you disagree. End of discussion from my part. And yes, I know I'm going to Hell. I hate harp music anyway, and in Hell you get an accordion. (Had to add this so nobody will think I'm crying myself to sleep;) ).

Guess I can remove Poles from my Christmas card list? The Russkies are out already.


A great many people mistake opinions for thoughts.
~Herbert V. Prochnow

"When wit fails, whip out Bartlett's."
~ikurinturbiini

;)

[WARPIG]

Great. So now I'm mustamato's evil twin. :roll:

Some of you make great points, bravo. You know your stuff. Those who open their mouth mainly because you're Catholic and/or Polish, get a grip.

I didn't post to gain friends. I know poverty, I know Africa. I know AIDS. Superstition is in some parts of the world the n:o 1 enemy of education, mainly ****** education. Catholic Church is in that respect very powerful and dangerous kind of superstition. The bush doctors have nothing compared to the Holy See.

Condoms are not the magic bullet. Catholicism is not bad. But the Pope is contributing to death and suffering clinging to his 11th century views. It's time for him to go or shut up. How do you feel about a geriatric case ruling the minds of 1/5 of the world's population? Think USSR. Think Mao. Being always right is a sure way to get out of touch which, sadly, I'm not.

Mods, if you feel like it, run IP search and PM it to those who are interested. I'm not typing this in a student dorm in Helsinki getting drunk and hating the world, and I'm not a kid. Anyone, PM me if you feel like sharing.

Sometimes people are right even though you disagree. End of discussion from my part. And yes, I know I'm going to Hell. I hate harp music anyway, and in Hell you get an accordion. (Had to add this so nobody will think I'm crying myself to sleep;) ).

Guess I can remove Poles from my Christmas card list? The Russkies are out already.


A great many people mistake opinions for thoughts.
~Herbert V. Prochnow

"When wit fails, whip out Bartlett's."
~ikurinturbiini

;)

I'll have you know that my quote did not come from some meager quote book.. I got it from the woot Internet.

My point was that you're defending your opinion as if it were some sort of personal creation or theory. Even after recognizing the fact that people put more thought into their resoponse than you did in your statement, it was not enough to simply disagree or debate from some thought of your own. You decided to take it personal. Since I lack the wit to say it.. check out your Bartlett's and tell me who said...
The truest characters of ignorance Are vanity, and pride, and annoyance.

While I am at it.... just kidding. I think most people actually see your point. But, all things said here.. isn't it a bit naive to think that one guy rules 1/5 of the world? The Pope has some influence.. no doubt. But I would think that most of the world has atleast some perspective of him. If not then surely you dont' think his policy isn't taken literally by 1/5 of the world.

Well.. just my opinion..

[2Sheds_Jackson]

ikurinturbiini - don't bail out yet.


I didn't post to gain friends. I know poverty, I know Africa. I know AIDS. Superstition is in some parts of the world the n:o 1 enemy of education, mainly ****** education. Catholic Church is in that respect very powerful and dangerous kind of superstition. The bush doctors have nothing compared to the Holy See.

I just do not see how keeping your wiener in your pants is "superstition". Can you transmit or contract a ******ly transmitted disease without having ***? No. Can you create unwanted or unsupportable children? Again, no. And it can be done this way. People do it every day. But a lot of people have guilt over not being able to pull it off, and therefore condemn those who do. I simply don't see any harm in encouraging this.


Condoms are not the magic bullet. Catholicism is not bad. But the Pope is contributing to death and suffering clinging to his 11th century views. It's time for him to go or shut up. How do you feel about a geriatric case ruling the minds of 1/5 of the world's population? Think USSR. Think Mao. Being always right is a sure way to get out of touch which, sadly, I'm not.

How can "contributing to death and suffering" not be bad? You can't stake out both positions at once. Either the Catholic Church is bad, or it's not. You also say Catholics aren't bad, then allude to the fact that their minds are "ruled" by the Pope. Again, which is it; people like anybody else, or mind-numbed robots? I think you don't understand the mechanics of the Church. Catholics believe that the edicts of the Pope are always correct. The edicts of the Pope are not created by the Pope. There is a massive internal structure, similar to any government that takes up, debates, then formulates positions on issues. Then it is issued as a Papal decree (think of it more as "from the office of the Pope").

I mean, if the guy says "gee, I think it's going to rain" and then it doesn't, his personal infallibility would be all shot to hell pretty quickly.


Sometimes people are right even though you disagree.

True enough...but jeez, before you go making statements like "The Pope and Vatican contribute to population explosion, spreading of HIV/AIDS and immeasurable suffering on a personal level" , at least get a working knowledge of the subject matter. You may know Africa etc., but it's very clear you don't know much about the Catholic Church, the Papacy, or Church doctrine. Catholics (or religious people in general) face enough discrimination and bigotry as it is. Just be like everybody else here and Blame AmericaTM!

[Herrmannek]

Couldn't say that better than Sheed...

[fdt]

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1908/cartoon1.jpg

[DPGLAW]

What is wrong with that mornic Pope? I mean there is not even remotely a comparison between the cruel joke (that what the pictures the public has seen are) of the US Soldiers ****in' with the Iraqi crap. 9/11 was a murder of 3000+ innocent Americans. I think this means that the pope has finally lost it, he's senile. that man looks like the walkign dead anyway, they should just put him out of his misery. Ya know, I never thought I would say this, but the pope and the Vatican are ****in morons to make a comment like that and it's a shame they didn;t lose anyone in the Trade Center attacks, mabye then they would take off their rose colored glasses and see see that we Americans are not the enemy, those ragheads that committed 3000+ counts of murder on 9/11 are the criminals, and funny pictures of some rags forced to be homo's are not the same

[Fintin]

and this is why my goal in highschool was to be excomunicated from the catholic church....

[Denat]

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1908/cartoon1.jpg
Mleczko :roll: rulez
rofl rofl rofl

[mack pl]

that man looks like the walkign dead anywaywell, maybe yes, but his brain is quite good, not like your, boy :| go,and eat cake :| BTW im not some kind of Catholics extremists....

[2Sheds_Jackson]

What is wrong with that mornic Pope? I mean there is not even remotely a comparison between the cruel joke (that what the pictures the public has seen are) of the US Soldiers f***' with the Iraqi crap. 9/11 was a murder of 3000+ innocent Americans. I think this means that the pope has finally lost it, he's senile. that man looks like the walkign dead anyway, they should just put him out of his misery. Ya know, I never thought I would say this, but the pope and the Vatican are f*** morons to make a comment like that and it's a shame they didn;t lose anyone in the Trade Center attacks, mabye then they would take off their rose colored glasses and see see that we Americans are not the enemy, those ragheads that committed 3000+ counts of murder on 9/11 are the criminals, and funny pictures of some rags forced to be homo's are not the same

Something tells me that you haven't read what the Vatican actually said, but are instead just reacting to the title of the thread.

[fdt]

What is wrong with that mornic Pope? I mean there is not even remotely a comparison between the cruel joke (that what the pictures the public has seen are) of the US Soldiers f***' with the Iraqi crap. 9/11 was a murder of 3000+ innocent Americans. I think this means that the pope has finally lost it, he's senile. that man looks like the walkign dead anyway, they should just put him out of his misery. Ya know, I never thought I would say this, but the pope and the Vatican are f*** morons to make a comment like that and it's a shame they didn;t lose anyone in the Trade Center attacks, mabye then they would take off their rose colored glasses and see see that we Americans are not the enemy, those ragheads that committed 3000+ counts of murder on 9/11 are the criminals, and funny pictures of some rags forced to be homo's are not the samehttp://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1039/Cartoon2.jpg

[ikurinturbiini]

You were saying? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3718475.stm)

[fdt]

You were saying? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3718475.stm)?

[mack pl]

You were saying? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3718475.stm)Im saying-Who fuzkin cares ;)