Americans seeking asylum in Finland.

[La8pv]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-09-21-1246382639_x.htm

I wonder if they will let them stay.


HELSINKI, Finland (AP) — An American family with three small children has applied for political asylum in Finland, immigration officials said Friday.
The five family members came to Finland on Tuesday from Germany, said Minna Serradj from the Directorate of Immigration.
"It's very unusual for a U.S. citizen to apply for asylum," Serradj said, declining to give details in line with a policy to protect asylum seekers. "I don't remember when we last had Americans applying."
Serradj declined to comment on local media speculation that the parents possibly were seeking to escape serving in the U.S. armed forces in Iraq.
"We will handle the case just like all the others," she said, adding a decision will be made in three to six months.


Finland has one of the smallest proportions of foreigners in Europe, amounting to just over 2 percent of the 5.3 million population. Last year, 38 of 2,300 applicants were given political asylum.

[Thor]

Last year, 38 of 2,300 applicants were given political asylum.
That must be the most restricitive policy in the EU.

[Power_serj]

If that is the case, they should be extradited back to the US and face the maximum penalty by law. The military is not just to use the government for money. It's to do your job. If you don't want to go to war, don't join the military.

[LMAV]

I wonder how long till they wanted to come back?

Nothing against Finland at all, but I'd bet they will get home sick. :)

[Fenix]

Well, Canada provides asylum for war dodgers. Why not Finland.

We could do with more Americans here. :D

If I remember right Bill Clinton was traveling here around the time of Vietnam war.

[....]

Well, Canada provides asylum for war dodgers. Why not Finland.

We could do with more Americans here. :D

If I remember right Bill Clinton was traveling here around the time of Vietnam war.

I'm not a war dodger, but how hard is it for an American to legally move to Finland? With the way that this country is turning to ****, I probably should move over there. Finland or Ireland.

[Aeroflot]

I'm not a war dodger, but how hard is it for an American to legally move to Finland? With the way that this country is turning to ****, I probably should move over there. Finland or Ireland.

Yeah, because those countries are perfect and don't have any problems. :roll:

I'm pretty sure no one in any country doesn't believe their country is going to hell.

[joka]

I'm not a war dodger, but how hard is it for an American to legally move to Finland? With the way that this country is turning to ****, I probably should move over there. Finland or Ireland.


If you're serious about it, you should be able to find your answers here (http://www.finlandforum.org).

Though, I reckon the easiest way to get over is to find the EU country with the most lax immigrations laws. Once you get in to one you have access to all (The new member states have some temporary restrictions though).

[Freibier]

If you want to dodge draft or military service - just fail at your piss test.
I leave to your imagination how to fail, but it is very easy ;)
You get a dishonorable discharge and that's it.
I know two individuals that did just that and they live happyly in Germany now

[Kippari]

If you want to dodge draft or military service - just fail at your piss test.
I leave to your imagination how to fail, but it is very easy ;)
You get a dishonorable discharge and that's it.
I know two individuals that did just that and they live happyly in Germany now

That could leave a nasty stain in your record making it harder to get a job etc.
Anyway, refusing to do the drug test should quarantee you an easy 6-month service in our conscription system.p-)

[Herrmannek]

That must be the most restricitive policy in the EU.

IMHO Poland is very close to that too...

[Freibier]

That could leave a nasty stain in your record making it harder to get a job etc.

As long as you stay in europe, nobody gives a damn about your US military record.
In the case of the two individuals I know, it even was considered a plus as their new bosses are very antiwar persons ;)

[Fireglow]

I'm not a war dodger, but how hard is it for an American to legally move to Finland? With the way that this country is turning to ****, I probably should move over there. Finland or Ireland.
Finland or Ireland. Lots of beer anyway!
What the hell americans are doing in here anyway? Way not to go sweden?

[AgentX]

Britney should move to Finland.

[Dean1962]

Well, Canada provides asylum for war dodgers. Why not Finland.



We could do with more Americans here. :D

If I remember right Bill Clinton was traveling here around the time of Vietnam war.

During Vietnam, yes, for this one, no. Every US soldier who has asked for asylum in Canada since 9/11 has been refused.

Dean.

[IronFinn]

That must be the most restricitive policy in the EU.

From which I´m gratefull.

[lazyreservist]

I'd like to hear more from this case. Sure if you want to pay high taxes, like cold and dark, and want to live in a country which is run by spineless lefties please be welcome. For their luck they are being refused of the political asylum anyway...

[Basillicus]

Well, I don't know if Finland is any colder or darker than northern parts of the USA, and "spineless lefties" might just be the reason why it's worth to come here. In a country run by lefties you'll get free education and healthcare and you won't end up to the streets no matter what you do. Taxes are damn high though, that's the price you have to pay. :roll:

[Thor]

...you won't end up to the streets no matter what you do.
On a sidenote the most common reasons people end up in the streets are drug addictions and mental illnesses.

[Strafe]

Yeah, because those countries are perfect and don't have any problems. :roll:

I'm pretty sure no one in any country doesn't believe their country is going to hell.
Something against Finland?


I'd like to hear more from this case. Sure if you want to pay high taxes, like cold and dark, and want to live in a country which is run by spineless lefties please be welcome. For their luck they are being refused of the political asylum anyway...
Maybe we could swap you for the Americans.

[Noble713]

In a country run by lefties you'll get free education and healthcare and you won't end up to the streets no matter what you do.

I don't see how that can be considered a good thing. If you fail at life, you should suffer the consequences of failure, not be rewarded.

[kosse]

I don't see how that can be considered a good thing. If you fail at life, you should suffer the consequences of failure, not be rewarded.
I think it's much more affordable for the society to just pay for their living than have them turn to crime to get their booze/dope. Keeping them locked up costs even more. In addition, nobody wants to see homeless people in my country. They are of more trouble than paying for the expenses it takes to keep them off the streets.

[Thor]

Again, people very seldom end up in streets just because they lose their jobs or whatever. Here we started getting homeless people on the streets due to a psychiatry reform in which mental institutions (and institutions with forced care in general) were closed.

Homeless people could get help from the social services but many of them don't want anything to do with society and just want to be left alone. The only way to get them off the streets is to have a system in which you force care upon alcoholics, drug addicts and mentally ill. I don't know if it's the right thing to do, maybe.

[Crassus]

I don't see how that can be considered a good thing. If you fail at life, you should suffer the consequences of failure, not be rewarded.

In Finland you have to make an effort to end up in the streets. Perhaps it is a little bit difficult to understand but you have to remember that only 5.3 million people lives in this country and 98% of them have born in Finland.
So, the price to look after fellow Finns is low in this (even if they deserve freeze to death) perspective.

"Nobody is left behind" - I don´t fully agree with that but it should still be ruling principle in a homogeneous nation state.

[Thor]

It's not about not wanting to help, it's about people that don't want to be "helped"....

[ting]

Is`nt the schengen agreement supposed to ensure their quick return to germany? If I remember correctly, if you don`t get asylum in one schengen country, it applies to all others? But if they did`nt apply for asylum in Germany, they are free to apply in finland? I migh have it wrong, but it`s something like that.


On the note of failed life:
If you were bourne into a failed life, you shouldnt really be punished for failing life, since you havent had a chanse at success anyway.

If you can think of any failed person as a potential bill gates, it makes more sence to give them assistance to get on their own feet. In any case, if you get the person on his feet, you have a another tax payer for the next 20-30-40 years. Makes perfect macroeconomic sence, and is also the morally corect thing to do.

The romans looked down on and despised the weak. For them, showing mercy was a sign of weaknes. Christianity, Islam and I think judeaism sees showing mercy and helping others as a sign of strengt.

Does anybody know of somebody who prays to Mars?;-)

[Lokos]

I don't see how that can be considered a good thing. If you fail at life, you should suffer the consequences of failure, not be rewarded.

Easy to say and awfully cynical.

Lokos

[Kippari]

I'd like to hear more from this case. Sure if you want to pay high taxes, like cold and dark, and want to live in a country which is run by spineless lefties please be welcome. For their luck they are being refused of the political asylum anyway...

Umm.. You do realize that the two ruling parties are from the center and from the right?

You sound like you have autumn depression.:)

[AZRON]

Umm.. You do realize that the two ruling parties are from the center and from the right?


The center calibration is quite different between the U.S. and many European countries so as to not be an easy comparison.

Just regarding national gov't tax rates vs. GNP in the U.S., the Left aims for 25%+ , the Center about 20% and the Right about 15%.

[Nightsky]

That must be the most restricitive policy in the EU.
fair enough, but it won't last, since elsewhere in Europe immigrants get their citizenship quicker than their newspaper - and as a European you can move anywjere you like. So it's a question of time till there'll be people with migrant background in greater numbers in Finland as well.

[Nightsky]

Is`nt the schengen agreement supposed to ensure their quick return to germany? If I remember correctly, if you don`t get asylum in one schengen country, it applies to all others?

I'm not sure about that, but if someone can clarify this matter, that'd be nice

[Noble713]

I think it's much more affordable for the society to just pay for their living than have them turn to crime to get their booze/dope. Keeping them locked up costs even more.

Your first point is an interesting one but I'm sure it's extremely difficult to do an actual data analysis on. You can keep the costs of prisons down through poor living conditions combined with forced labor.


Here we started getting homeless people on the streets due to a psychiatry reform in which mental institutions (and institutions with forced care in general) were closed.

Ahhhhhh, ok. I think that's the same problem we've had here in the states. Back in the 80's people complained that the mentally ill shouldn't be "forced" to be in asylums and that they were capable of living their lives on their own. A bunch of asylums were closed and now we have crazy homeless people everywhere.


(1)If you can think of any failed person as a potential bill gates, it makes more sence to give them assistance to get on their own feet. (2)In any case, if you get the person on his feet, you have a another tax payer for the next 20-30-40 years.

(3)The romans looked down on and despised the weak. For them, showing mercy was a sign of weaknes. Christianity, Islam and I think judeaism sees showing mercy and helping others as a sign of strengt.

Does anybody know of somebody who prays to Mars?

1: That seems overly optimistic. People like Bill Gates are a rarity, so the probability that a failed individual could turn into someone similar is so low that it would be rejected in an analysis.

2. A much better argument, but it hinges on the costs per person for support and comparing that to the present value of their expected tax revenues.

3. I've considered praying to Mars. I'm always shopping around for a religion with one or more gods that actually appeal to me. I've done a little reading about Nordic mythology that was inspiring but the practical aspects seem a bit too amorphous for my tastes. I like the structure of western ceremonial mysticism but the idea of looking up to the Judeo-Christian God as the highest power just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The Qliphoth and the Goetia draw my interest but I get the impression that actually worshipping them can be a really bad idea.


Easy to say and awfully cynical.

Giving handouts to people makes them lazy and unproductive, and I speak from personal experience. When I came off Active Duty, I collected unemployment for about 6 months. I was paid so much that in order to find a job that would pay me MORE, it would have to pay >$10/hour. I applied for jobs at quite a few places, mostly retail, and the only one that offered me a job was a supermarket....at $7/hour. So I was making more money sitting at home on my @$$ than I would trying to engage in beneficial economic activity.

These days I'm facing a bit of a money crunch and it has gotten my creative juices flowing to figure out how to pay my bills. I'm just starting to sell consumer electronics over the Internet, but if I was still getting handouts from the government I wouldn't be doing a damn thing.

And yes it's cynical. I'm a notorious cynic who feels virtually no empathy for other human beings. :)

[Basillicus]

I don't see how that can be considered a good thing. If you fail at life, you should suffer the consequences of failure, not be rewarded.

I don't think a lot of people think living on welfare very rewarding, having just enough money to pay the rent and buy some simple food and clothes. Of course there are some bums who are fine with it, but I think most people consider it humiliating. I think it also a cultural thing, we don't in general want to depend on anyone and this can sometimes also lead to situations that some people won't go get help even if they need it. People are also somewhat reluctant to take huge loans or live on credit.