Poland bans OSCE poll observers

[Asheren]

Poland has said it will not allow the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe to monitor its parliamentary elections next month.

Rest of article http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7008373.stm

I personaly think it was dumbest move our diplomacy could ever make. Unfortunaltly it sugests that we will have reapeat of previous poll campagin from PiS. Playing on our national phobias and complexes with large dose of black pr. On other hand that could block few potential moves at last no sane person would do now considering what response it could bring from world opinion.

[Switek]

Well seems that putinism eventually won in our country. In such light with no single doubt, that Russia is much more democratic state than Poland. What an irony! :(

Anyway congratulations to Vladimir Vladimirovich.

[Asheren]

Especialy considering that "new november 13 1989 if PO wins". Sometimes when i listen to our curent government i got a wierd feeling. That kind of feeling that makes you want to stockpile caned food and fresh water just in case.

[SkyUS]

I got to be honest here, everytime I turn on a Polish channel (ITVN and TVN 24), I always see, some kind of affairs going one. One politician accusing another. Polish politicians giving gifts to one another, such as chocolate bars or bars of soap. It is just like a circuis. Sometimes I just watch it for the entertainment. It make me want to vomit when ever I thinking or seeing Polish politicians. Just plain sad. I do not even want to vote for any of these clowns anymore?

An now they banned the Organisation for Security and Co-operation from monitoring the elections. I just simply could not believe what our potato head said, Poland is a stable democracy and there is no basis for such organisation to monitor. For God's sake they should have just allow them like anybody else would and carry on with their lifes.

On a side note, I got to see our dear president in person yeaterday In St. Stanislaus Kostka Parish in Greenpoint, Brooklyn. And now I am even sadder(sp?) than I was before.

[Herrmannek]

And what the point in having OSCE here?

[Switek]

One simple word Herrmann: decorum....

[Asheren]

Becouse iressponsible foregin policy or our government created concerns about state of democracy in our country. Concerns large enough for international opinion to make pressure on OSCE to act. They would go in and for 99% sure say all with our democracy is fine. Ofcurse our iressponsible government instead of use this advantage to gain credibilty amongst world leaders told them to f..k off. Immediatly raising that concerns even more. Not mentioning it would be ammo for anyone that wanted to make any kind of anti-polish campagin. Ofocurse some of our "patriots" will get a ***** how our government care about or national dignity. On other hand we would get a bit of paranoia climate a perfect time to play "your grand father was in wermaht" kind of card. If properly played with a bit of foregin powers and stuff could give them an edge similiar to one they got during presidential campagin. On other hand wise leaders compare benefits and cost of their decision. I don't think that short term internal policy goals are worth long term international consequences of this decision. Well that is common mistake our government is doing. It will came back and bite them in their a.. quite soon.


Main problem is that if after this elections no stable government is fromed things might realy go in bad direction.

If PO wins it would be all about % of voices they could get. They must have enough votes to remove president veto. Otherwise Kaczynski might just paralyse government by extensive veto usage. Especialy over such important isues like budget. That way he destabilise government enough to force earlier elections. PiS partial control over disciplined radical catholic electorate might provide them with majority just by making peoples not vote.

If PiS withs with majority large enough to rule alone we will have stable but unpredictable government. If they got constitutional majority i am packing and leaving while i still can. PiS is just too unpredictable to be allowed to mess with our constitution.

There might also be a coalition bewen PO and LiD or PiS and LiD. While LiD and PiS is rather impossible cos PiS proved to use divide and conquer policy. PO LiD might form goverment relativly weak but stable enough to last till end of its terms.

[Smok]

And what the point in having OSCE here?

Becuse we are european democratic country, member of UE, NATO etc.

[Herrmannek]

Yes and those OSCE guys have a habit to overlook every each election in Europe... If you are paranoid about cheating go stay in the poll station all day, or better become a part of poll comission.
BTW Don't know about you non-PiS nutjobs :) but No PiS supporting guy is going to start blow things up if we loose...

[seer]

I got to be honest here, everytime I turn on ... (ITVN and TVN 24),.......... It make me want to vomit .....

I am not surprised. :)

[Flamming_Python]

Is this the same OSCE that claimed that Kazakhstan's election a few months ago was free and democratic? rofl

You guys should do whatever you want, this organisation is nothing more than a tool anyway.

[RICHICOQUI]

poland better careful they get something worst then the osce!! former prez jimmy carter may want to take thier place!!

[wholagun]

osce wasn't present at the last elections and there were no doubts about the election - just to point out.

[ZhukovG]

are the twins going to go for the elections again?

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

IIRC, the US was blessed with enlightened oversight of the OSCE during the 2004 elections.

[Asheren]

are the twins going to go for the elections again?

Well what did you expect to happen after CBA went after one of "coalition" leaders. What was more important he knew that they wanted to "bribe" him. If it was succesfull propably all could go well cos he would get what he deseves for a long time. Then polticians started to blame each other who told Lepper about CBA. It went straight to some very nasty stuff about what our government actions. Like gathering materials about politicians private lifes etc. A while latter our government was completly paralysed and now we will get new elections.

[wholagun]

Kaczynski's are the worst thing to happen to Poland. I can't believe ppl are dumb enough to vote for them despite everything. However, 10 years from now once the pendulum swings the other way ppl will see their terrible governnance and utter stupidity.

[Smok]

Yes and those OSCE guys have a habit to overlook every each election in Europe... If you are paranoid about cheating go stay in the poll station all day, or better become a part of poll comission.
BTW Don't know about you non-PiS nutjobs :) but No PiS supporting guy is going to start blow things up if we loose...

It is not fear of cheating. It is a "symbol" - you can watch us, because we are clear and we don't want to cheat. It is something like free entry to court and possibility to watch trials.

Now whole world is laughing because of stupid ducks :-( :oops:

Diplomacy is art of symbols and kindness. Ducks cant understand it. We will need dozens of years to repair our position in the World.

[seer]

Holly cow you guys are scared to be laughed at or made fun of. Anything but that.

PS. I could not care less if the observers are there or not but I am also glad the government does not bow before every little political intrigue the opposition dreams of.

[wholagun]

^^^^^

dude that is a sweet pic where did you get?

[seer]

^^^^^

dude that is a sweet pic where did you get?

Stern I believe. I am kind of jealous of your avatar thou.

[Asheren]

Holly cow you guys are scared to be laughed at or made fun of. Anything but that.

PS. I could not care less if the observers are there or not but I am also glad the government does not bow before every little political intrigue the opposition dreams of.

Well you will care when company x build their factory somewhere elese because they heard bad things about our democracy and our government moves seems to confirm that. International image has much wider effect than just schemes about our opostion or what peoples say about country x or y.

[Freibier]

The twins made you the laughing stock of europe.
Hope you kick them out, with or without observers.

[seer]

Companies will go where it is good for their bottom line and investing in Poland is very good for their bottom line right now. ( they do not have a qualms in investing in China do they? )

PS. It is mostly the German media that has a very skewed view of situation in Poland right now. Sadly the opposition and many media outlets in Poland play right into their hands.

[Igor01]

Kaczynski's are the worst thing to happen to Poland. I can't believe ppl are dumb enough to vote for them despite everything.

The dynamic duo reminds me of Russia's evergreen political clown Zhirinovsky, only the Poles somehow managed to dig up two of him and put them both at the helm. Hillarious but mostly sad.

[little icebear]

PS. It is mostly the German media that has a very skewed view of situation in Poland right now. Sadly the opposition and many media outlets in Poland play right into their hands.

Damn those evil Germans!

[Switek]

Oooops... The fact that I share most of the criticism published in German media makes me German or rather Volksdeutscher according to "PiS Strong Fan Club" crew... rofl

Is that you point seer ?

[little icebear]

No... bashing Germans is just some sort of fashion in Polish Media these days.
The other way around, its far less aggressive. And most Germans dont even give a fvck.

[Asheren]

Because anti-german sentiment is still strong in our society. Strong enough to make peoples say that they hate dislike germans and then be unable to say why. It was considered a political extremism and improper behavior in after commies to use that for political gains. It changed with our current governemnt.

[seer]

Oooops... The fact that I share most of the criticism published in German media makes me German or rather Volksdeutscher according to "PiS Strong Fan Club" crew... rofl

Is that you point seer ?

I am sure you would like this to be my point but it is not. The point is that there is/was a media onslought in some EU countries because Polish government did not see eye to eye with EU and Germany and the Polish opposition parties are happily exploiting the situation eventhough it might be against Polish interests.(if somebody did that is US/Canada they would be politycally lynched) One excellent example is the latest comment by Kwasniewski that Germany should 'get tough' with Poland if Kaczynski wins this election. I wonder what he meant by 'get tough'?

[seer]

No... bashing Germans is just some sort of fashion in Polish Media these days.
....
Any sources?

[Asheren]

Companies will go where it is good for their bottom line and investing in Poland is very good for their bottom line right now. ( they do not have a qualms in investing in China do they? )

Right now well yes but it has not much to do with our curent government. Its mostly more or less a consequnece of our particiaption in EU. Read some bussines articles our futre might not be soo bright as PiS say. And most certainly we aren't tiger of europe.

[seer]

Most business articles are like the internet. You can always find something to support your point of view.

[Switek]

I am sure you would like this to be my point but it is not. The point is that there is/was a media onslought in some EU countries because Polish government did not see eye to eye with EU and Germany and the Polish opposition parties are happily exploiting the situation eventhough it might be against Polish interests.(if somebody did that is US/Canada they would be politycally lynched) One excellent example is the latest comment by Kwasniewski that Germany should 'get tough' with Poland if Kaczynski wins this election. I wonder what he meant by 'get tough'?

Well, The main problem of Kaczyński twins aren't the goals but the style, methotds they use to accomplish them. Pure machiavellism or putinism, using the modern example. Stupid way to selfmarginalization of Poland and its citizens.

[little icebear]

Any sources?


You don´t even need to leave mp.net in order to find proof, buddy.

A random search of this part of the forum should do the trick. p-)

[Freibier]

Any sources?
For a start, does "Macocha Europy" (WRPOST) ring a bell?

[seer]

Come on keep it comming. You say 'German bashing' is a fashion trend there must be more than one or two examples? Just to encourage you I will give you a free one. 'Erica riding Gerhard' also in WPROST. (if you can consider that 'German bashing' and it happened with Gerhards biggest friend Kwasniewski in power so it should not count) Please continue..

[ZhukovG]

Well what did you expect to happen after CBA went after one of "coalition" leaders. What was more important he knew that they wanted to "bribe" him. If it was succesfull propably all could go well cos he would get what he deseves for a long time. Then polticians started to blame each other who told Lepper about CBA. It went straight to some very nasty stuff about what our government actions. Like gathering materials about politicians private lifes etc. A while latter our government was completly paralysed and now we will get new elections.

Oh I didnt knew all about that
but u know everywhere Politicians has a lot of "dirty things"

[seer]

Well what did you expect to happen after CBA went after one of "coalition" leaders. What was more important he knew that they wanted to "bribe" him. If it was succesfull propably all could go well cos he would get what he deseves for a long time. Then polticians started to blame each other who told Lepper about CBA. It went straight to some very nasty stuff about what our government actions. Like gathering materials about politicians private lifes etc. A while latter our government was completly paralysed and now we will get new elections.
This story is much more interesting than that. After CBA (Central Biuro of Anti-corruption) went after one of the 'coalition' leaders (CBA was totally within their rights, that is their mandate...they can provoke and offer bribes) the leader in question agriculture minister Lepper was warned by somebody in the government that a provocation was coming. While investigating the leak in the government the interior minister Kaczmarek was accused of the leak and fired. The opposition parties plus the old coalition partners went bezerk and vigorously defended Kaczmarek accusing the government of all kinds of nasty things. It was a circus accusation of totalitarian regime, Lukashenka, Putinism, destroying democracy etc.. etc.. At this point the procurator-general decided to make a lot of the evidence against Kaczmarek public. Video tapes conversations etc.. It turns out that when Kaczmarek found out the date the bribe was supposed to be delivered he run to his billionaire friend Krause to warn him of this.(why it is still unclear) Krause in turn called another member of parliament that apparently warned Lepper. This probably could be somehow explained but before Kaczmarek knew what kind of evidence there is against him, lied through his teeth and begged his friends (the chief of police and the CEO of PZU the biggest insurance company in Poland) to provide an alibi for him. They did. After the evidence was presented the chief of police and the CEO were fired obviously. Krause is in Switzerland awaiting the ‘change of government in Poland’. There might be an EU arrest warrant issued for him.

[Asheren]

I know quite well what is in their mandate. I read law act that created it and had and oportunity to discus it with some lawyers. CBA is most powerfull agency in Poland in therms what they are alowed to do. In same time politicans have large control over it. To make this thing short it is generaly belived to be a political decision to intiate provocation aginst lepper or to speed it up. It would not be the first time when politicans made pressure on justice system to speed up actions aginst certian peoples. It would be first time when it was used aginst politician in such high postion.

[*^*]

Go twins !

[timetraveller]

One thing about Poland is they brew some quality beverage

Tyskie and another named Ojeick [ sp ]

[seer]

So the OSCE observers were 'invited' after all. Big deal.