Shock at archbishop condom claim

[Kilgor]

Shock at archbishop condom claim
Condoms
The Catholic Church formally opposes any use of condoms
The head of the Catholic Church in Mozambique has told the BBC he believes some European-made condoms are infected with HIV deliberately.

Maputo Archbishop Francisco Chimoio claimed some anti-retroviral drugs were also infected "in order to finish quickly the African people".

The Catholic Church formally opposes any use of condoms, advising fidelity within marriage or ****** abstinence.

Aids activists have been angered by the remarks, one calling them "nonsense".

"We've been using condoms for years now, and we still find them safe," prominent Mozambican Aids activist Marcella Mahanjane told the BBC.

The UN says anti-retrovirals (ARVs) have proved very effective for treating people with Aids. The drugs are not a cure, but attack the virus on several fronts at once.

The BBC's Jose Tembe in the capital, Maputo, says it is estimated that 16.2% of Mozambique's 19m inhabitants are HIV positive.

About 500 people are infected every day.

'Serious matter'

Archbishop Chimoio told our reporter that abstention, not condoms, was the best way to fight HIV/Aids.


"Condoms are not sure because I know that there are two countries in Europe, they are making condoms with the virus on purpose," he alleged, refusing to name the countries.

"They want to finish with the African people. This is the programme. They want to colonise until up to now. If we are not careful we will finish in one century's time."

Aids activists in the country have been shocked by the archbishop's comments.

"Condoms are one of the best ways of getting protection against catching Aids," said Gabe Judas, who runs Tchivirika (Hard Work) - an theatre group that promotes HIV/Aids awareness.

"People must use condoms as it's a safe way of having *** without catching Aids," he told the BBC.

Archbishop Chimoio, who made the remarks at celebrations to mark 43 years of independence, said that fighting the disease was a serious matter.

"If we are joking with this sickness we will be finished as soon as possible.

"If we want to change the situation to face HIV/Aids it's necessary to have a new mentality, if we don't change mentality we'll be finished quickly," he said.

"It means marriage, people being faithful to their wives... (and) young people must be abstaining from ****** relations."

Our correspondent says the archbishop is well respected in the country and the Catholic Church played a leading role in sponsoring the 1992 peace deal that ended a 16-year civil war.

Some 17.5% of Mozambicans are Catholic.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7014335.stm

[LRPV]

Can't take much to be an Archbishop in some places....

[Litti]

What a ****ing nutter.

This institution is preaching about abstinence eventhough the priests cannot
even practise it themselves as fars as young boys are concerned.

[gaijinsamurai]

When I lived in Guatemala, the archbishop (or whatever title he had) of Guatemala City held a news conference, in which he held a bullet in one hand and a condom in the other, and declared they were the same thing, in that they both took lives.
Knowing that one of Guatemala's worst problems in overpopulation, I lost the last bit of respect I had for the Catholic Church with that statement.

[Kilgor]

I lost the last bit of respect I had for the Catholic Church with that statement.

Im surprised you had any to begin with. The catholic church has been spreading lies about condoms in Africa for decades now.

[Mu-Meson]

Which two countries do you suppose he was referring to? Britain is a shoo-in just because its the old, evil colonial power. But who else?

[Hollis]

When I lived in Guatemala, the archbishop (or whatever title he had) of Guatemala City held a news conference, in which he held a bullet in one hand and a condom in the other, and declared they were the same thing, in that they both took lives.
Knowing that one of Guatemala's worst problems in overpopulation, I lost the last bit of respect I had for the Catholic Church with that statement.


Over indulgence in celibacy causes mental retardation and/or DSB............ (deadly sperm buildup) leading cause of death in adolescent males and in insanity in old men.

[Thor]

^^ Of course


People believe whatever they want to believe

[timetraveller]

What he has said is blatent ill founded and uncalled for

[theholeinthedonut]

This is not about the most honourable archbishop being an illiterate fool...believe me the guys on those posts are more clever then most of us....this is just the normal daily perfidy of the catholic church. Their stance on anti-condom policy should earn them a condemnation for complicity in genocide.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

This is not about the most honourable archbishop being an illiterate fool...believe me the guys on those posts are more clever then most of us....this is just the normal daily perfidy of the catholic church. Their stance on anti-condom policy should earn them a condemnation for complicity in genocide.

Yes, well it's much more interesting when it's conspiracy. The fact is that the official doctrine of the Catholic Church is that a person should keep their **** in their pants - i.e. out of women who they don't know very well and whom they are not committed to, and out of the various holes in men who they've seduced with their wide stance. It's 100% effective, even if it is inconvenient and ruins everyone's fun. Church doctrine contains none of this nonsense about sabotaged condoms etc. - it's just some kook who's gone of on his own.

[theholeinthedonut]

Yes, well it's much more interesting when it's conspiracy. The fact is that the official doctrine of the Catholic Church is that a person should keep their **** in their pants - i.e. out of women who they don't know very well and whom they are not committed to, and out of the various holes in men who they've seduced with their wide stance. It's 100% effective, even if it is inconvenient and ruins everyone's fun. Church doctrine contains none of this nonsense about sabotaged condoms etc. - it's just some kook who's gone of on his own.

I just leave it at that out of respect of our members who are practicant catholics....I've already let my mouth run off much too much. This is not to say that I agree with you or that I would not have any arguments to stand my ground. But one of my principles is to try not to hurt anybody's religious feelings but as I said my bad temper already made me say things I'm not too proud about.

[La8pv]

Yes, well it's much more interesting when it's conspiracy. The fact is that the official doctrine of the Catholic Church is that a person should keep their **** in their pants - i.e. out of women who they don't know very well and whom they are not committed to, and out of the various holes in men who they've seduced with their wide stance. It's 100% effective, even if it is inconvenient and ruins everyone's fun. Church doctrine contains none of this nonsense about sabotaged condoms etc. - it's just some kook who's gone of on his own.

It doesn't really matter what their doctrine is when many of that religion preach lies. I don't like missionarys, but i don't care as long as they don't preach to me. But when they actually cause death because of their lies i think its a disgrace. you say its just a conspiracy theory:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3176982.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/3844945.stm

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/hiv/mg18024161.200-catholic-church-claims-condoms-do-not-stop-hiv.html

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1385610/posts

http://www.unitedforlife.com/PDF/Roland%20the%20evidence%202000.PDF

"Handing a student a condom to protect against AIDS is like giving him an overcoat to cross a battlefield."

Now if someone could explain to me why the god you believe in and created you thinks that *** is a sin. If he created you, he damn well should have known how you would behave.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

It doesn't really matter what their doctrine is when many of that religion preach lies. I don't like missionarys, but i don't care as long as they don't preach to me. But when they actually cause death because of their lies i think its a disgrace. you say its just a conspiracy theory:

"Handing a student a condom to protect against AIDS is like giving him an overcoat to cross a battlefield."

Now if someone could explain to me why the god you believe in and created you thinks that *** is a sin. If he created you, he damn well should have known how you would behave.

The first issue I would bring to your attention is the fact that not everything a "church" or "priest" says is official Catholic doctrine. Catholics are not like Muslims (for example) - individual churches and priests don't get to go running around with their own individual opinions and agendas. That's the entire objective of central control. Nowhere will you find in the Vatican where it says "European condoms are full of AIDS" - therefore, 1) the priest is violating church policy by telling such lies and 2) you don't get to hold the church responsible for somebody violating it's own rules.

Yes it does happen - and the church tries to shut it down. Hell, the Chinese government has installed it's own "Catholic" bishop - which is completely outside the control of the church, and has nothing to do with the church.

Secondly - you're quite confused about Catholic doctrine to begin with. The church is all about gettin' it on (it's part of that being fruitful and multiplying part) - but the church simply insists that you do it with somebody that you're actually married to. If you get to know somebody over a few years, get to know they don't have AIDS, and only poke them after getting married - you will not get AIDS. Simple as that.

Yes, that may not be as fun as poking everything you can - but poking everything you can, and staying healthy, is a lie. There is no free lunch. If you do that, you'll wind up with STD's and pregnancy- no matter what the pharmaceutical corporations are trying to sell us.

I make no claims as to which is the better way - or what God actually wants - only to say that you can't lie to people when it comes to their health. Telling them that wearing a condom = safe *** is just as bad as telling them that condoms cause AIDS. Both will get people killed.

BTW I don't consider myself a Catholic, though I was raised as one. I just burns me up when they're thrown under the bus for things they are not responsible for.

[Litti]

No, the church is not trying to shut it down.

On the contrary, it has been their policy to speak against condoms from the beginning. The well known leaders are more careful with their choice of words and at the same time the individual lunatics scare people with lies. From time to time one gets caught and the church mumbles something.

Abstinence is the biggest joke under the sun. It has never worked, it will never work, period. Protection is the best thing available to these people.


I make no claims as to which is the better way - or what God actually wants - only to say that you can't lie to people when it comes to their health. Telling them that wearing a condom = safe *** is just as bad as telling them that condoms cause AIDS.Not exactly. Using condoms reduces the risk of AIDS transmission by 85% relative to the risk of going unprotected.

[Herrmannek]

Quality of archbishops in Africa isn't the greatest... Didn't one of them marry some ugly chick at the Moon's mass marriage and later the same bishop gave a middle finger to the Pope when Pope wanted to bring bishop back to order? Wouldn't be surprised if we would talk about the same guy...

[Herrmannek]

No, the church is not trying to shut it down.

On the contrary, it has been their policy to speak against condoms from the beginning. The well known leaders are more careful with their choice of words and at the same time the individual lunatics scare people with lies. From time to time one gets caught and the church mumbles something.

Abstinence is the biggest joke under the sun. It has never worked, it will never work, period. Protection is the best thing available to these people.

Not exactly. Using condoms reduces the risk of AIDS transmission by 85%.

Abstinence doesn't work? Damn, so much effort to learn its all for nothing... As for those who can't do without the poking... Marry first girl you really want to poke and be faithful while you poke her until death do you apart... Thats simplified teaching RC have for you in this aspect...

[Kilgor]

Abstinence doesn't work? Damn, so much effort to learn its all for nothing... As for those who can't do without the poking... Marry first girl you really want to poke and be faithful while you poke her until death do you apart... Thats simplified teaching RC have for you in this aspect...

Newsflash, telling young people not to have *** is totally pointless.

[Herrmannek]

Newsflash, telling young people not to have *** is totally pointless.
Church says go have secks in a life long marriage...

[Litti]

Church says go have secks in a life long marriage..Which is like playing the lotto. Without experimenting, you dont know what you will get. p-)

[Kilgor]

Which is like playing the lotto. Without experimenting, you dont know what you will get. p-)

Not to mention many in western societies don't get married until well into their 30's.

Remaining a virgin until your 35 will probably leave you mentally disturbed for life.

[futurepilot2004]

Remaining a virgin until your 35 will probably leave you mentally disturbed for life.

Remaining a virgin til your 20 would probably have the same effect.

[wilhelm]

The first issue I would bring to your attention is the fact that not everything a "church" or "priest" says is official Catholic doctrine. Catholics are not like Muslims (for example) - individual churches and priests don't get to go running around with their own individual opinions and agendas. That's the entire objective of central control. Nowhere will you find in the Vatican where it says "European condoms are full of AIDS" - therefore, 1) the priest is violating church policy by telling such lies and 2) you don't get to hold the church responsible for somebody violating it's own rules.

Yes it does happen - and the church tries to shut it down. Hell, the Chinese government has installed it's own "Catholic" bishop - which is completely outside the control of the church, and has nothing to do with the church.

Secondly - you're quite confused about Catholic doctrine to begin with. The church is all about gettin' it on (it's part of that being fruitful and multiplying part) - but the church simply insists that you do it with somebody that you're actually married to. If you get to know somebody over a few years, get to know they don't have AIDS, and only poke them after getting married - you will not get AIDS. Simple as that.

Yes, that may not be as fun as poking everything you can - but poking everything you can, and staying healthy, is a lie. There is no free lunch. If you do that, you'll wind up with STD's and pregnancy- no matter what the pharmaceutical corporations are trying to sell us.

I make no claims as to which is the better way - or what God actually wants - only to say that you can't lie to people when it comes to their health. Telling them that wearing a condom = safe *** is just as bad as telling them that condoms cause AIDS. Both will get people killed.

BTW I don't consider myself a Catholic, though I was raised as one. I just burns me up when they're thrown under the bus for things they are not responsible for.

Very well said.

Instead of focusing on the religious angle here, let us look at what continent this guy comes from and the problem facing that continent.

I live on the continent of Africa. AIDS is rife here. And growing exponentially. There are warning all over the media about AIDS. You do not even have to be literate. And yet....

This argument about AIDS being a racially motivated disease created or encouraged by caucasians is relatively common. It is the latest episode of Africans societies in general not fronting up to the challenges facing them. It is always someone elses fault. Like colonialism. And slavery. And....

I desperately want Africa to succeed, but there needs to be a paradigm shift in attitudes and mentality for that to happen. I live here after all, even though I can live in Europe if I so choose. The blame game needs to stop and ones own behaviour, actions and accountability taken seriously. Jacob Zuma and the "taking a shower gets rid of AIDS" cop-out being a case in point. That woman from Ghana who won the Nobel or some other prize stated categorically that AIDS was invented in western laboritories to suppress Africans!!! These are the continents leaders!!!

This clergyman is just spouting out the latest refusal to be 'master of ones own actions and blame others' tradition. And he is using it for devious reasons.

[Annihilator9112]

I hate when people like him make Christians look bad. There are so many bad christians. They are going too far.

[Kilo]

Which two countries do you suppose he was referring to? Britain is a shoo-in just because its the old, evil colonial power. But who else?


"The head of the Catholic Church in Mozambique has told the BBC he believes some European-made condoms are infected with HIV deliberately."



Mozambique was Portuguese until 1974


the old days:
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7027/14maputogf5.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9770/11maputolf6.jpg