Norinco 1911-A1 Opinions?

[wamp]

Recently saw one of these in a local shop for around $350. Curious if anyone has owned one or has any experience with one. I know its a cheaper 1911 but I am just looking for something cheap to plink around with at the moment not a trust my life in firearm. Felt pretty damn solid and the action was still pretty damn tight. Thoughts?

[ed316]

I know people that owns them. They have no complaints. I think they are made on the same machine as the Colt ones. I might be wrong.

[theholeinthedonut]

The owner of the gunshop where I buy most of my stuff say's they are very good quality considering the little money you pay for them....I got the impression that they'are very popular in Canada. Never laid my hand on one though my 2 cent might not be of much worth.

[ed316]

For $350 you should snatch it up. That's a steal!!! Log off and go down there NOW!!!!!!

[wamp]

Thanks for the input so far guys, I know its not a Kimber or anything else with flashy bells and whistles but something about it keeps making me finger fck it everytime I walk into the shop. Been looking around on the net and $350 seems to be a decent price...hmm

[history nut]

their 1911's get pretty good reviews on many of the M1911 forums. For some general info go to the "autoloader" section here http://www.thehighroad.org/index.php there are usually a handful of Norinco threads at any one time and also threads/links for specific M1911 owner sites.

The Rock Island Armory GI M1911 is around $375 if you're looking for a no frills .45 (that's the way I'm leaning if I don't go with a Beretta M9 or 92) and there are many who rave about their Taurus M1911s though I've never handled or fired a Taurus.

[LaoSexMachine]

I second Ed's opinion. Go buy that shat, son!!!

[BrigN96]

If possible, ask to see several pistols and pick out the nicest / tightest one.
Some of the once I have seen have had rough surfaces and have had marks from engineering marks/faults.

A fellow club member has made a custom 1911 out of a Norinco and it turned out to be a beauty.

[Roy Batty]

check here: www.canadiangunnutz.ca

There are some great example of Norc 1911s on there. Guys love em.

[Pete031]

If you buy the Norinco, You can always swap in USGI parts... It will save you some $$$

[22.5degrees]

I've never owned a Norin-crap firearm and nor will I. Everyone I've ever met who owned one had problems with it. Their QC is very hit and miss, The frames are poorly finished with rough and sharp edges. Norinco guns are popular in Canada because they're cheap. The guns and their owners. If you expect very little from the gun, then go ahead.

Swapping out guts for quality US made stuff will save you some money in the short term but cost you in the end. The frames fail and are often out of spec with US parts. Don't buy crap or support China, stick to quality US makes.

22.5

[Hollis]

I have enjoyed reading this thread. I have not said anything because I do not have first hand information on the QC of Norinco.

What I have heard for those who do, has been pretty much similar to what 22.5 has to say.

Now as a Collector, I would say...... Don't buy one, get something that is better and maybe not as much as an expensive as a Kimber.

I sold a Colt Officer model to Gaijin for $450, In the box in very good condition. Patience, follow the want ads, I am sure you can find a "collectible"/re saleable 1911 for not much more than a Norinco.

My Suggestion is based on other's that I know and trust view and as a collector.

If you are buying it from a store, find out what the return policy is. That could add a factor to your choice.

[gaijinsamurai]

I think it all depends on how much money you want to spend, and what you're expecting.

Personally, I'd prefer to save my money and get something that's quality, but that's just me.

[LaoSexMachine]

$350 isn't bad or just add a bill to the price and you have a brand new SA GI .45 or an AO WWII 1911a1. That's the price I see here in Houston anyways.

[gaijinsamurai]

Like Zeke mentioned, if you can save another $100, and hold onto it, eventually a nice 1911-A1 will come along.

But, like he also said, $350 aint bad if you just want a basic shooter.

[paul13usa]

Pick it up ,the quality of the weapon is excellant ,A lot of comp shooters use them for a base weapon to build on

personally i own
kimber 45ss ultra carry series 1
randall 45ss first ss 45 auto
colt ww1 replica
colt series 80
RIA 45 really good weapon for the money just got ,put 500 rds down the pipe no fte or ftf
A home made using a sistema frame and colt parts
Have been looking for a norinco but always in the wrong place at the wrong time,you can always get your money back the price of guns has really gone up

[gaijinsamurai]

How do you like the Randall, Paul? I haven't seen one of those in a really long time.

[paul13usa]

Well it was the model that had the compensator and the full lenth guide rod and constantley jammed .I took and put a colt bushing on it and got rid of the spring guide and used the colt one and now it shoots like a dream,to bad they went belly up they were way ahead of everybody,but i think the idea of stainless auto scared people away

[Pete031]

I've never owned a Norin-crap firearm and nor will I. Everyone I've ever met who owned one had problems with it. Their QC is very hit and miss, The frames are poorly finished with rough and sharp edges. Norinco guns are popular in Canada because they're cheap. The guns and their owners. If you expect very little from the gun, then go ahead.

Swapping out guts for quality US made stuff will save you some money in the short term but cost you in the end. The frames fail and are often out of spec with US parts. Don't buy crap or support China, stick to quality US makes.

22.5

I own a Norico copy of an M14 and it has never failed me and never lost it's zero. I take offense to you calling owners of norico cheap. The company not only buys the patent, but the machines to build them.
I own a Norinco, and am glad I didn't fork out the extra $1000 for a springfield.

[gaijinsamurai]

I thought Polytech made the Chinese versions of the M14. Does/did Norinco make them too?

[hughdotoh]

Norinco either makes them very good or very crappy. The crappy ones haven't been through quality control and might be con items for a quick sale. Just remember that Norinco also makes AKs and there sure are a lot of satisfied customers out there.

I have a Norinco .45 and apart from a few burrs and the quickly-rubbed off bluing, works well enough for a home defense gun.

[punchinout]

i have absolutely no experience with the Norinco's, i hear good things and bad things, i'll wait on final judgment till i fire one.

I had a guy come in lookin for IWB holsters for full size 1911's, asked him what he was carryin...he said it was a Colt. I took a look at it and it was a Norinco. In my head i was screaming..."thats not a Colt...THAT'S A LIE!!!!" but i got him a holster anyways.

Good price if you want it. I've seen used SA WWII Models go for about $350, seen some RIA's that low and even some Auto Ordances too. Hollis said it the best, search the want ads and the stores, see what kind of deals you can stumble upon, or save some money.

[Hollis]

I had a guy come in lookin for IWB holsters for full size 1911's, asked him what he was carryin...he said it was a Colt. I took a look at it and it was a Norinco. In my head i was screaming..."thats not a Colt...THAT'S A LIE!!!!" but i got him a holster anyways.



Great story, thanks for the chuckle. More than likely he probably did not know the difference.

[USMC Tanker]

What Hollis, not every 1911 is a Colt? ;)

[22.5degrees]

I own a Norico copy of an M14 and it has never failed me and never lost it's zero. I take offense to you calling owners of norico cheap. The company not only buys the patent, but the machines to build them.
I own a Norinco, and am glad I didn't fork out the extra $1000 for a springfield.


Feel free to be offended. That is entirely within your rights. The Norinco M14 or should I say, M305's are cheaper than the Springfields and often operate just as well. I however, will not sell out the originial manufacturer or lower my morals at the benefit of saving a few bucks. I will not support a country who abuses its people and its environment for the same reason people buy their products; to save some money or increase their profit margin.

All I can comment on is what I've seen and experienced. Every Norinco owner I've ever met always feels the need to brag about how many(rather how few) rounds they've fired without a component failure. Everyone I've known who shoots any of the major brand name pistols such as HK, Glock, Kimber, SIG, even some of the custom and semi custom guns like STI, Wilson, and Chip McCormick never feel the need to brag about round count. Often those who support and own brand name guns are labelled as "brand name whore" or "gun snobs".

There are those who believe brand X is better than brand Y. Even amongst the major names. I have yet to hear anyone make a personal attack on someone because of their choice in firearm, unless its a Norinco owner. It never fails to see or hear of a Norinco owner beating the war drum about how great their pistol, rifle, or shotgun is compared to the ORIGINAL. Practically all Norinco firearms are direct copies of successful designs. A good number of them are not copied under license. Nor are they manufactured to similar specs.

For the money, they're an alright starter gun, or close replica for the collector. For anyone who's serious about their gear and their sport. They fall short of being a serious option.

Firearms and the shooting sports are not a cheap hobby. To really be involved and serious about a hobby requires much time and financial investment. I find it interesting to note that those who are known within their circles or are familiar faces at competitions do not run cheap gear. Often those who are running cheap gear are rarely seen at the same match twice. Perhaps its because these people aren't as dedicated to the sport as they once boasted. Maybe that's why they don't spend more money on better gear.....

22.5

[Pete031]

Feel free to be offended. That is entirely within your rights. The Norinco M14 or should I say, M305's are cheaper than the Springfields and often operate just as well. I however, will not sell out the originial manufacturer or lower my morals at the benefit of saving a few bucks. I will not support a country who abuses its people and its environment for the same reason people buy their products; to save some money or increase their profit margin.

All I can comment on is what I've seen and experienced. Every Norinco owner I've ever met always feels the need to brag about how many(rather how few) rounds they've fired without a component failure. Everyone I've known who shoots any of the major brand name pistols such as HK, Glock, Kimber, SIG, even some of the custom and semi custom guns like STI, Wilson, and Chip McCormick never feel the need to brag about round count. Often those who support and own brand name guns are labelled as "brand name whore" or "gun snobs".

There are those who believe brand X is better than brand Y. Even amongst the major names. I have yet to hear anyone make a personal attack on someone because of their choice in firearm, unless its a Norinco owner. It never fails to see or hear of a Norinco owner beating the war drum about how great their pistol, rifle, or shotgun is compared to the ORIGINAL. Practically all Norinco firearms are direct copies of successful designs. A good number of them are not copied under license. Nor are they manufactured to similar specs.

For the money, they're an alright starter gun, or close replica for the collector. For anyone who's serious about their gear and their sport. They fall short of being a serious option.

Firearms and the shooting sports are not a cheap hobby. To really be involved and serious about a hobby requires much time and financial investment. I find it interesting to note that those who are known within their circles or are familiar faces at competitions do not run cheap gear. Often those who are running cheap gear are rarely seen at the same match twice. Perhaps its because these people aren't as dedicated to the sport as they once boasted. Maybe that's why they don't spend more money on better gear.....

22.5

Wow man,
It's just a gun.... For those of us in the military who get to fire high end weapons, I think it is nice to have a cheaper alternative for personal use. The only time I have heard anyone boast about their round count through a Norinco is due to the fact that they got a good deal on a firearm.
You say you will not support a country who abuses their people, well I hope that you keep your word with all products, not just firearms. That you due in fact boycott all Chinese products.
If you think you are not paying for the Name Springfield Armory, you are wrong. And I'm sorry, but the fact that Canada's small, and I say again, small community of serious gun owners has the option to buy a Norinco, for a third of the price, (and these days, the Norinco Quality is pretty darn good), instead of paying full price for a name brand weapon, I say do it. If you don't think the market in the US is not the staple of the North American gun market, and I'm sure you know that the US has an import ban on Norinco, I don't think it is taking away from their (The big gun companies) business.

It seems to me that you have a very personal hate on for Norinco owners.... Well that is your problem, noone elses.

[onefast93z28]

I've never shot a good Norinco, I'm sure there are good ones out there, I just haven't run across them.

You can find Auto-Ordnance 1911s pretty cheap.

[22.5degrees]

Pete031,

Where in my post did I mention any sort of hate towards Norinco owners??? My values due indeed carry through to everything I purchase. Obviously there are cases where I have no choice but to purchase Chinese goods.

Canada's small firearms community isn't overly small by comparison to Canada's population. It is estimated that 7-9 million citizens own firearms. For a country that only totals a little over 33 million, that's a healthy 21-27% of the population who own firearms. Naturally most of these people are not serious competitors but rather hunters and avid plinkers.

I am fully aware that I am paying for the name, I'm also paying for the quality and the service provided by major name vendors. To the best of my knowledge Norinco does not have rights to produce the SIG copies or the Browning Hi-power copies.

You mention that those in the military have the opportunity to use "high end" weapons. Why would someone who trains with quality gear down grade to something lesser for their personal gear? Again, it appears that many who purchase copies or cheaper products are those who are not serious about the sport.

You mention that my apparent "hate for Norinco owners" is my problem, no one elses. to that I must say, my distaste for Norinco products is just that. A distaste for their products based on experiences and the experiences of current and previous Norinco owners. What annoys me about Norinco owners, is their insatiable appetite to prove the value or worth of their lesser quality knock-offs to everyone and anyone who disagrees with the claims of Norinco quality. There's anther common topic(over at Canadian Gun Nutz website, a forum for Canadian firearms owners) that not only adds to the nauseum of Norinco drum beaters but directly refutes their claims of quality. Usually the thread will start with a title like: How to make my Caspian/Colt/Springfield slide/barrel/internals fit my Norinco frame. Or, Why doesn't the safety work on my Norinco, Broken sear with less than 2000 rounds, Where to get spare parts for my Norinco(albeit the parts in question are not always replacements but spares) How to do a trigger job on my Norinco etc etc....

A wise old man once told me "if you pay little for something, expect little from it." If you want to chance getting a lemon for the odd acceptable Norinco, feel free. Just remember, the problems are failures you experience with your Norinco are your problems, and your problems alone....

22.5

[Paulinski]

22.5 - 95% of consumer goods you buy in Canada are made in China so unless you live in a shack and wear fur as a coat you have bought Chinese made goods.

As far as the Norinco 1911-A1's go, don't buy one no sir buy two of them :)

The steel is excellent rest of the parts are heat treated and are decent. They accept all wide array of 1911 parts for Series 70 pistol. Yes they have rough edges and machining lines but for $350 you get forged frame and slide. Further to emphasize Wilson combat will build you a custom gun on Norinco frame.

[Pete031]

Pete031,

Where in my post did I mention any sort of hate towards Norinco owners??? My values due indeed carry through to everything I purchase. Obviously there are cases where I have no choice but to purchase Chinese goods.

Canada's small firearms community isn't overly small by comparison to Canada's population. It is estimated that 7-9 million citizens own firearms. For a country that only totals a little over 33 million, that's a healthy 21-27% of the population who own firearms. Naturally most of these people are not serious competitors but rather hunters and avid plinkers.

I am fully aware that I am paying for the name, I'm also paying for the quality and the service provided by major name vendors. To the best of my knowledge Norinco does not have rights to produce the SIG copies or the Browning Hi-power copies.

You mention that those in the military have the opportunity to use "high end" weapons. Why would someone who trains with quality gear down grade to something lesser for their personal gear? Again, it appears that many who purchase copies or cheaper products are those who are not serious about the sport.

You mention that my apparent "hate for Norinco owners" is my problem, no one elses. to that I must say, my distaste for Norinco products is just that. A distaste for their products based on experiences and the experiences of current and previous Norinco owners. What annoys me about Norinco owners, is their insatiable appetite to prove the value or worth of their lesser quality knock-offs to everyone and anyone who disagrees with the claims of Norinco quality. There's anther common topic(over at Canadian Gun Nutz website, a forum for Canadian firearms owners) that not only adds to the nauseum of Norinco drum beaters but directly refutes their claims of quality. Usually the thread will start with a title like: How to make my Caspian/Colt/Springfield slide/barrel/internals fit my Norinco frame. Or, Why doesn't the safety work on my Norinco, Broken sear with less than 2000 rounds, Where to get spare parts for my Norinco(albeit the parts in question are not always replacements but spares) How to do a trigger job on my Norinco etc etc....

A wise old man once told me "if you pay little for something, expect little from it." If you want to chance getting a lemon for the odd acceptable Norinco, feel free. Just remember, the problems are failures you experience with your Norinco are your problems, and your problems alone....

22.5

Well, you referred to your annoyance of Norinco owners twice now....So thats paragraph 1....

Paragraph 2, The vast majority of Canadian gun owners, own a .22 or a Lee Enfield number 4....

Para 3: Guess you only hung around with kids who could afford name brand anything....

Para 4: Why do I down grade from my military weapons, to civvy guns? Umm, because I like to shoot on my down time, at ranges where there are no orders or people who question the type of firearm you are using.... And because I can't afford gucci weapons with high speed optics... ANd plus I get to use my high speed weapons at work, for what they were actually designed for in countries like the A-Stan, Haiti and whatnot... BTW Nice Avatar... I am actually about 10 meters away from that guy at the Port Aux Prince Airport.

Para 5: Well I too am a member of Canadian gun nutz... and you will have a hard time finding much on the unreliability of Norinco products there... 1 or 2 members, but the vast majority loves them.
And why not buy a Norinco, put some after market parts into it, so that it can be tuned in as much as possible?
There is no arguement from me that a $1200 Sig Sauer 226 is a better quality weapon then the Norinco knockoff. However, if some dude wants to get a Noricno version, because he likes the style and operating system of the weapon and simply can't afford an Exeter New Hampshire version, then why not?? Chances are, if he or she picks one up and likes it, they will someday get the real thing.

Para 6: Well that is good advice... But if you want an affordable gun that goes bang, and hits what you want it to, get a Norinco.

[22.5degrees]

Pete031,
The owners of Norinco firearms are not what annoys me, it is their complaining and belief that they purchased a tier 1 firearm. I agree with you, for someone on a budget purchasing a cheaper copy of a firearm they like is a wise choice before taking the plunge on the real deal. However, having to purchase twice when you could have saved up and purchased once makes far more sense. brand name firearms retain their value far more than Norinco's. So in th event the firearm you purchased doesn't work out, you shouldn't lose too much on the resale. Then again, that's life, live and learn.

I already mentioned that the shooting sports aren't cheap. They are still affordable even on a limited budget. No one said you had to have high speed optics, or the best holster, two dozen mags, etc etc. When people stretch themselves too thin by taking on more than one hobby. They never excel at any of them. On the whole we as citizens don't make sh*t for wages. Maintaining a high speed lifestyle and several(even two) hobbies is not practical from both a financial and physical standpoint. Rarely will you hear of anyone who excels in two or more demanding hobbies. Of those who do, many are sponsored or do it professionally.

that being said, feel free to play in the low end of the sport and purchase bargain pistols such as Norinco. Just don't expect them to perform like the tier 1 makes and don't complain when they fail. Even the major name firearms have failures. Buying twice because the first one blew up is neither affordable nor practical. I'll take my chances on the brand name guns and their reputation.

22.5

[Paulinski]

I may own Norinco 1911-A1 but it resides in my safe near my Noveske barreled, DD free floated, Acog equipped M4 clone.

I guess that makes me a cheap Norinco owner.

ETA - My $1300 STI .45 has cast slide and frame and $350 Norinco has forged slide and frame. Both shoot the same.

[22.5degrees]

Paulinski,
Did my comment offend you? I must rephrase my original comment, MOST Norinco owners are cheap. There are those who buy them for what they are and shoot the hell out of them.

Funny you should mention STI. I just had a 2 gun match(shotgun pistol) a couple weeks ago and watched an avid IPSC shooter curse up a storm when his STI grand master proceeded to choke on a very regular basis. I guess when you pay over $4000(Canadian) for your pistol and rig you'd be pissed too if it failed.

22.5

[kamarian]

ETA - My $1300 STI .45 has cast slide and frame and $350 Norinco has forged slide and frame. Both shoot the same.


But which one will last longer, and has better after sales service and support?

i have shot Norinco .45's. I found them to be ok, shot well, but personally i would save up and buy something else. (If we couold buy .45's here in Australia!)

[Hollis]

MOST Norinco owners are cheap. There are those who buy them for what they are and shoot the hell out of them.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with being Cheap, errrr I mean frugal. I have friend, he is retired, pretty limited income and loves to shoot and buy guns. He buys some stuff that I would not, to cheap, errr I mean frugal on my part. He has a lot of fun with it and the world is good because he fulfilled that need to own more guns. I can understand the need to own more.

Another friend collects firearms like original mint condition Mannlichers.. Starting prices are way out of my range $4,000 +. Compared my collection to his, mine looks cheap, err I mean frugal.

Would I buy a Norinco, depends, also you can always trade UP. I had a Norinco copy of the Browning 22. I sold it when I was able to pick up a Belgium Browning one. One reason of owning a firearm, is so you don't spend the money on women, beer, food, gas, etc.

Gun are also a investment so, better now than later, the prices are going up and gun bans are always possible.

Then the biggest reason, He with the biggest grin wins!!!



A little note on wearing out a firearm, the more you own, you can spread the wear factor over a larger number of firearms, you can shoot more, with less wear per firearm.

[gaijinsamurai]

There's another forum I'm a member of besides this (www.wehrmacht-awards.com), which is focused on collecting military firearms and militaria. A lot of the guys on that forum have the belief that the only stuff worth collecting are things that are in 100% mint condition and cost >$1,000 or more. These types of collectors often fail to realize that for most of us, the needs of our family outweigh our hobby, or that some of us have limited incomes.
The same thing goes for firearms. I'm of the belief that when it comes to your personal defense weapon, you should own the most effective and reliable gun you can afford. The pistols I usually carry are a Springfield 1911-A1 (slightly customized), a CZ-75, and a Colt Agent .38.
Now, I suppose I could sell my car or take out a loan, and use the money to purchase better guns like a Wilson Close Quarters Combat, an HK USP, etc. But I don't. Why not? Because the guns I carry are the guns I can afford.
So, when it comes to purchasing a Norinco, if that's what you can afford, so be it.

[Paulinski]

Paulinski,
Did my comment offend you? I must rephrase my original comment, MOST Norinco owners are cheap. There are those who buy them for what they are and shoot the hell out of them.

Funny you should mention STI. I just had a 2 gun match(shotgun pistol) a couple weeks ago and watched an avid IPSC shooter curse up a storm when his STI grand master proceeded to choke on a very regular basis. I guess when you pay over $4000(Canadian) for your pistol and rig you'd be pissed too if it failed.

22.5

Somebody asked about Norinco pistol and you come bashing Norinco owners.
Seems like you missed the point of this thread completely. You have a problem with Norinco stuff don't buy but stop preaching as well.

[sergey31]

I own their SKS that is pretty much crap, but my girlfriend has double barrel shotgun that is pretty good quality for $300. Lately they have been making better firearms than what they did in the 90's.

[Hollis]

I own their SKS that is pretty much crap, but my girlfriend has double barrel shotgun that is pretty good quality for $300. Lately they have been making better firearms than what they did in the 90's.


Sergey, I agree, the quality of many Chinese manufactured products are much better than it was. Especially in aesthetic areas, like fit and finish.

[USMC Tanker]

I don't have anything against Norinco owners, to each their own. If that's what is within their budget and performs to their expectations, great!

I realize that in today's world, you don't have much of a choice when buying most consumer products (clothing, electronics, toys, etc). You will buy Chinese products, and you will support their economy, like it or not.

However, when it comes to firearms, I do have the ability to be specific and decisive in which country's products I purchase, which country's economy I support, and which country's wallet I'm putting money into.

I will buy American, Austrian, Swiss, German, Italian, heck even Brazilian (Springfield Armory) weapons. But with God as my witness, you'll never find a Chinese manufactured weapon in my safe.

[22.5degrees]

Paulinski,

Actually I answered the original posters question. I was then accused of "hating Norinco owners". I'm not sure which language I need to publish this in but I'll try english again. I don't hate Norinco owners. I do not approve of Norinco products and I find many Norinco owners tend to beat the war drum in support of their product when in all honesty no one cares. It is the beliefs and expectations of many Norinco owners that I dislike. Not the individual. You get what you pay for. If you can score a firearm for cheap and it works relatively well and you enjoy it. I say good on you. Don't however start whining and complaining if and when it fails prior to meeting your expectations. Don't complain when there is little or no support from the manufacturer either.

Hollis,
Seeking out a bargain is always a good thing. Purchasing a product simply because it is cheap will get you no where. As I've mentioned already, many in the shooting community simply believe that a cheap purchase must also be a quality one. Rarely is this the case. On the other hand, you can pay far to much for a product with no real gain for your dollar as well.

The price in which one should/could pay for a firearm is dependent on their intended use. For a personal carry gun or home defence gun, there should be nothing of questionable quality used. It is your life on the line, being cheap in the self defence field will only cost you..

For a sport gun, or something to play with, there's really no worry other than the frustration that comes with a firearm that breaks or doesn't work well. A failed sport gun means more money out of your pocket and less range time. A failed personal carry gun or home defence gun could be a show stopper.

22.5