Gas Piston AR's/M4 ???

[Mundzos]

What is your opinion on new gas piston AR's, does it improve rifle's dependability and why does it cost so much?

[-[Crosshair]-]

Well, it doesn't blow back some of the gas/carbon back into the receiver and doesn't heat up as much, for one.

[SRT-M4]

I have 2 POF AR15 based rifles. They run great. I have not had any malfunctions with any brand of ammo to date. Between the 2 rifles I have somewhere around 3000 rounds fired through them.
They run cleaner and cooler than the DI AR's. I beleive that the piston type AR's have a good future.
Oh and they shoot very straight contrary to what some beleive.

[punchinout]

The gas piston system does improve the reliability you will have less maintenance of the firearm.

It really depends on how much shooting you're doin. If you can afford it and you're dumping like 500 rounds a week through it, then the gas piston will be a awesome choice. The system runs clean, and will run clean in a dirty environment too.

But most people i know aren't takin it into combat or dumping a ton of rounds through their AR's. The original gas system is efficient enough for heavy amounts of shooting. You just need to keep it CLEAN and LUBRICATED.

[Hollis]

You just need to keep it CLEAN and LUBRICATED.


I think that applies to ALL firearms. Irregardless of operating system.

[yiorgo]

look at the track record of weapons that are gas piston operated and it should answer your question examples....AKs, FALs, M1 carbines, G36.....so on and so on......gas piston weapons are extremely reliable, I would much rather have a Gas piston AR than a standard one....not to say that the M4 doesnt work...it does and has put away bad guys for a long time, but it does have issues, the gas sysytem being the biggest one


if I had to pick one right now it would probably be the Leitner wise versions, colt, or the LMT......I am waiting to see what happens with the FN SCAR...and the Magpull Masada


have to wait till shot show...out of the above I would like to own the Masada first

[JoaMei]

Well, one advantage for the standard AR is higher precision compared to the piston system. But that mostly for sport shooting.

[yiorgo]

not so.....gas piston ARs are just as accurate as standard ARs

[D-gin]

Unless LMT's new piston kit is less then $400 over what they're already asking for a normal MRP upper I'll stick to my regular AR's for the time being, Look at what at it cost to build a piston AR as opposed to a regular one, Unless your sending a shat load of of rounds down range at one time or you're being sent to some deep dark jungle for a month with no way to clean your weapon I don't see the point.

Keep your weapons clean and lubed and they will work, Simple.

[Seraphim]

Well, one advantage for the standard AR is higher precision compared to the piston system. But that mostly for sport shooting.

Im not sure about that part...

[SMGLee]

not so.....gas piston ARs are just as accurate as standard ARs


That is why the latest M110 SASS was not build with the piston!! nor did any of its competitors choose the piston route. the piston all weight to a barrel that should stay as much free float as possible. for a battle rifle, the piston is good, but not for something that is seeking consistant sub MOA.

Mundzos, try the search function, you will find a wealth of info on this subject.

[Mundzos]

Well, I did lots of research, but I was hoping to hear first hand from people that might be using it on a daily basic....Also whenever I look at the components, they don't seem to be that complicated, so I don't get why does gas piston rifle cost $600 more than just regular one...You can't tell me that gas piston cost more than $200 :roll:

[velvet-cream]

I think SMGLee was talking about using the search function on this website.

You're new here, so people won't mind you asking. But in the future, it's usually best to search the forum before you ask. Chances are, someone has already asked the same question. (and they have)

[Field_Gunner]

more machineing, casting and enginering = more money

[mohica]

That is why the latest M110 SASS was not build with the piston!! nor did any of its competitors choose the piston route. the piston all weight to a barrel that should stay as much free float as possible. for a battle rifle, the piston is good, but not for something that is seeking consistant sub MOA.

Mundzos, try the search function, you will find a wealth of info on this subject.

Chen, wouldn't you agree that is partly due to the fact that at the time, no one had a piston AR platform for 7.62mm and weren't ready to attack that animal if not required by the gov't? Also, the DI system has been proven over time, it is simple, and familiarity is key.

My guess is you would take a piston system if it was available i.e. HK417 if set up right, or dare I say it, the new LWRC 7.62mm short stroke piston system apparently towards the end of development stages. I know I would.

Otherwise, give me an SEI worked Crazy Horse. Heck, I could probably get three CH rifles for one M110 for the raping Reed is putting on the taxpayer.

[DizBukHaPeter]

Does anyone have experience with Bushmaster's piston ar? I've never heard anything about them.

[Createdeemcee]

I never knew they existed?

http://www.fortune3.com/Bigskyguns/Upper_Recievers-Bushmaster_A3_223_Gas_Piston_Upper-.html

[SMGLee]

Does anyone have experience with Bushmaster's piston ar? I've never heard anything about them.

they were discontinued....due to design flew...

using the FN mag, they had to shear off a lug in order for the bolt to travel through the narrower openning of the FN mag. that started a lot of bolt cracking...

[SMGLee]

Chen, wouldn't you agree that is partly due to the fact that at the time, no one had a piston AR platform for 7.62mm and weren't ready to attack that animal if not required by the gov't? Also, the DI system has been proven over time, it is simple, and familiarity is key.

My guess is you would take a piston system if it was available i.e. HK417 if set up right, or dare I say it, the new LWRC 7.62mm short stroke piston system apparently towards the end of development stages. I know I would.

Otherwise, give me an SEI worked Crazy Horse. Heck, I could probably get three CH rifles for one M110 for the raping Reed is putting on the taxpayer.


true, no one had a piston, but if some one wanted the best platform to win, they could have used a piston upper deisng.

M14 is another animal then the M16 system...

[Panzerjaeger12]

they were discontinued....due to design flew...

using the FN mag, they had to shear off a lug in order for the bolt to travel through the narrower openning of the FN mag. that started a lot of bolt cracking...

The bushmaster piston was discontinued? Thats news to me, as they still offer it, and its the same design as POF, without the anti-corr. coating.

I have had mine for about 6-7 months now with zero problems.

[Createdeemcee]

The bushmaster piston was discontinued? Thats news to me, as they still offer it, and its the same design as POF, without the anti-corr. coating.

I have had mine for about 6-7 months now with zero problems.

Do you have an FN mag?? have you tried different mag types in it?

[born2rocknblaze]

the piston system is detrimentally less dirty, all the carbon byproducts do not get pushed back into the receiver. and, as said before heat is reduced tremendously. you could literally pull the bolt out and wipe it on your shirt as a means of cleaning, then slip it back in and BAM.

[SMGLee]

The bushmaster piston was discontinued? Thats news to me, as they still offer it, and its the same design as POF, without the anti-corr. coating.

I have had mine for about 6-7 months now with zero problems.

I have been told that Bushmaster has discontinued this model, and I know for a fact it is no longer on their catalog and web site. you might have bought a gun that was bought while they were still in production.

buy some extra bolts

[D.E. Watters]

they were discontinued....due to design flew...

using the FN mag, they had to shear off a lug in order for the bolt to travel through the narrower openning of the FN mag. that started a lot of bolt cracking...

Chen, you are thinking of their 7.62x51mm model, which was direct gas impingement. The piston model is in 5.56x45mm.

[yiorgo]

bushmaster and POF are the same.....just like the one DSA sells as well, its POF too.......these are discontinued? thats news to me

[SMGLee]

Chen, you are thinking of their 7.62x51mm model, which was direct gas impingement. The piston model is in 5.56x45mm.


ok.. I am losing it in my old age... you are right.

7.62 guns and I guess I just lost track.

yes.. Bushmaster is selling POF piston deisnged guns.

[maw]

The bushmaster piston was discontinued? Thats news to me, as they still offer it, and its the same design as POF, without the anti-corr. coating.

I have had mine for about 6-7 months now with zero problems.

i suspect that SMGlee might be confused between the bushmaster piston ar and that abortion: the bushmaster ar-10, which indeed used fal mags. bm had to fcuk with the bolt (ie remove one of the lugs) to get it to work with the fal mags. things went downhill fast from there.

fwiw, the lwrc (no longer leitner-wise) .308 is where my christmas money is going. a buddy of mine has an inside track. so far the accuracy exceeds my wildest expectations and is pushing top shelf bolt gun stats. this thing is not just an ar-10/sr-25 with a piston. they've significantly stiffened up the barrel/receiver interface. so much so that it has more resemblance to a rem 700 then a sr-25. i've been anticipating this gun more than just about any other new firearm coming out for the next few years...

[Biglug]

The Bushmaster .223/5.56 version of POF's piston AR design is still in the catalog as said and more people are buying them.
http://bushmaster.com/catalog_parts_upper_receivers.asp#BURA3B16M4GP

The design is licensed to Bushmaster though and the upper aren't exactly the same in features and details.
I'm not sure about the gas cylinders, piston and op rod on whether they are making them themselves or simply getting them from the same manufacturing source as POF though.
There hasn't been any clarification that I've seen on it even though I've wondered for a while, but they appear to be exactly the same parts in manufacture and chrome plating.

The receiver, BCG (two piece with staked modified key), bolt, barrel and small parts are all Bushy's choice though and the uppers besides not using the chrome plated BCG and bolts that POF does aren't silicone nickel coated either to line the receiver and charging handle.

There have been a few reports from owners of minor problems, but that will happen with any manufacturer and most owners seem very happy with their Bushy piston uppers/rifle.

I prefer my POF though and as for it being a great AR, it is much cleaner and cooler running than a DI which lends it to being much easier to maintain, stay lubricated longer longer and run beautifully.
I won't ever look to buy DI again. There's just no benefit to it that I can see besides saving a little money and as for accuracy there's no difference that I can see and all the POF's from other owners I've come across besides mine were very accurate shooters. Not to overlook what near every owner has reported in threads on various forums, Arfcom being one of them.

http://pof-usa.com/index.htm

People looking to shoot a point in on definite accuracy differences from the pistons movement tend to use one type or example of a piston rifle they came across as a general base for judging all piston rifles.
That's not really a good example to judge by as all designs and how they balance and direct that movement are not the same. Don't forget a person who doesn't take in mind to care for his barrel crown can easily damage it which will throw accuracy out the window.

Besides being a very straight line push of the piston and op rod to the modified carriers, POF uses fluted Rock Creek barrels too which not only being top quality barrels are more rigid and would seem to help counter react what effects there may be from negative harmonics of the piston action.

People will always tend to think that if there is an issue of a possible negative coming into play on something, that it's just a solid barrier and uncapable of being worked.
That's a very close minded, negative way of looking at life. We move forward in everything by working to better things and overcome obstacles in our way.

For anyone looking for a new AR and considering a piston choice I recommmend it. Look around, study, learn and listen to owners from their difference experiences and decide for yourself.

I know I'll never buy anything but a piston AR again if I want another AR.:)

(the Masada and Scar's coming in the future look very promising though on whether I would want another AR) rofl