Mexican military Operating on border

[bryanleu2002]

Is this kind of stuff SOP for Mexico? Do we do the same thing? If they are doing it why aren't we?



This Mexican Army Humvee was spotted just west of Naco, Arizona - just south of the border. The railroad tie vehicle barrier is in the U.S. A number of Mexican military vehicles were spotted. ABP will make a more complete report later.

http://www.americanpatrol.com/ABP/PHOTO-OF-THE-DAY/2007/IMAGES/070808.jpg
http://www.americanpatrol.com/ABP/PHOTO-OF-THE-DAY/2007/IMAGES/070809A.jpg
http://www.americanpatrol.com/ABP/PHOTO-OF-THE-DAY/2007/IMAGES/070809B.jpg

[tuercas]

mexico army routinely patrols up to the border line. Here in Nuevo Laredo that is the south bank of the river, along with local police who setup checkpoints on the streets closest to the river, here being donaldo colosio blvd. u cant approach the river without being confronted. the only patrols on american side are US Border patrols and some Laredo Police on the bridges.

[ronnieraygun]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Spencer

[Tokamak]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Spencer

This is nonsense!!!!

[Gabe]

I just talked to my buddy who is stationed in Nogales and he said the mexican military will double as protection for drug runners. I don't know if that is the case with these guys, but it is possible.

[Dragunov]

Sweet pictures. I love those Rams with the GPS system. Thanks for the pictures american border patrol. woot

[Dragunov]

I just talked to my buddy who is stationed in Nogales and he said the mexican military will double as protection for drug runners. I don't know if that is the case with these guys, but it is possible.

God, we have discussed this issue so many times, and did not ended up very well.
Anyway, as a i have stated before, there might have been an incident where some corrupt commander sold out to drug runners on the border, but again there is no solid evidence. This has become like some urban legend along the border promoted mainly by anti-mexican groups. So yeah, i wouldn't take these stories/accusations seriously.

Greetings.

Honor, valor, lealtad.

[Friendofall]

Good for Mexico but what I wonder is instead of just building a giant wall to keep out starving desperate people why does the US not have joint patrols and operations alongside the Mexicans to combat the drug threat?

[Dragunov]

Good for Mexico but what I wonder is instead of just building a giant wall to keep out starving desperate people why does the US not have joint patrols and operations alongside the Mexicans to combat the drug threat?

There is an agreement of mutual cooperation against drugs. In Mexico we have the largest number of DEA agents outside the USA.

[Felix U. Gómez]

I just talked to my buddy who is stationed in Nogales and he said the mexican military will double as protection for drug runners. I don't know if that is the case with these guys, but it is possible.

There was a case of several U.S. army soldiers stationed in Colombia who were bringing in cocaine to the US on US military cargo aircraft. Does this mean that acts like this are rampant among the US army? Does this signify that this is official US government policy? I think not, and it is ludicrous to assume that because of someone's hearsay, you assume the same of Mexico's army. The Mexican army, almost on a daily basis, is making huge drug busts and arrests of cartel heads and members. How come your friend doesn't tell you about that?

[Felix U. Gómez]

Is this kind of stuff SOP for Mexico? Do we do the same thing? If they are doing it why aren't we?



This Mexican Army Humvee was spotted just west of Naco, Arizona - just south of the border. The railroad tie vehicle barrier is in the U.S. A number of Mexican military vehicles were spotted. ABP will make a more complete report later.

http://www.americanpatrol.com/ABP/PHOTO-OF-THE-DAY/2007/IMAGES/070808.jpg
http://www.americanpatrol.com/ABP/PHOTO-OF-THE-DAY/2007/IMAGES/070809A.jpg
http://www.americanpatrol.com/ABP/PHOTO-OF-THE-DAY/2007/IMAGES/070809B.jpg
In answer to your question of whether the US does the same, I would ask you where you were when all tof he hoopla of putting the national guard on the border was going on? Perhaps you don't remember that 6000 were assigned to help the Border Patrol do its duties. Maybe this will help:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/14/AR2006051400773.html
I assure you that Mexico has assigned less than 6000 troops to patrol the border, and is well within its rights to patrol within Mexican territory.
As for the picture, am I the only one that noticed that since the Mexican Army Humvees are in Mexico, and the railroad ties mark the border, that from the angle of the picture it seems that the US Border Patrol helicopter appears to have taken the picture from within Mexican airspace? Is this SOP for the US Border Patrol, and if it is, shouldn't we be doing the same? It is interesting when the tables are turned, no?

[bryanleu2002]

In answer to your question of whether the US does the same, I would ask you where you were when all tof he hoopla of putting the national guard on the border was going on? Perhaps you don't remember that 6000 were assigned to help the Border Patrol do its duties. Maybe this will help:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/14/AR2006051400773.html
I assure you that Mexico has assigned less than 6000 troops to patrol the border, and is well within its rights to patrol within Mexican territory.
As for the picture, am I the only one that noticed that since the Mexican Army Humvees are in Mexico, and the railroad ties mark the border, that from the angle of the picture it seems that the US Border Patrol helicopter appears to have taken the picture from within Mexican airspace? Is this SOP for the US Border Patrol, and if it is, shouldn't we be doing the same? It is interesting when the tables are turned, no?

The Picture was taken by a UAV glen spencer american border patrol
http://www.desertinvasion.us/photos/pic_abp_2004may_img_0103.jpg
http://www.desertinvasion.us/invasion_pictures/pics_american_border_patrol.html


I remember the Indiana national guard on the border, are they still there? , falling back when confronted by armed men. (following orders of course). no offense to the ING. We need more there.

[Felix U. Gómez]

Helicopter or UAV, the picture was still taken from south of the international line. It shouldn't have been there. I wonder what the reaction would be should a Mexican UAV take pictures of US border patrolmen or national guardsmen from within US territory?

[Mastermind]

I have to wonder if there is an organizational difference between the "American Border Patrol" and the "United States Border Patrol" do you suppose the ABP is something like the "Minute Men" while the USBP is the real deal with actual legal authority. Could the ABP be a bunch of R/C flyers on a Saturday outing to just have some fun? I don't see any official uniforms, badges or vehicles in the picture.

From the referenced web site :

American Border Patrol (http://www.americanborderpatrol.com/), a private organization in Cochise County, Arizona, has recently completed a year of unmanned arial border patrols near Palominas.

Just for clarification...of course. I'm all for private citizens helping patrol the border.


AND:
From Felix above....."Helicopter or UAV, the picture was still taken from south of the international line. It shouldn't have been there. I wonder what the reaction would be should a Mexican UAV take pictures of US border patrolmen or national guardsmen from within US territory?"


I would imagine the ACLU would be all over that kind of illegality....and there would probably be all sorts of investigations. not!!!!! Anything Mexican is now holy...and not to be violated, including Mexican nationals who are in the USA illegally...they are rapidly becoming a protected class. Our government has decided to just roll out the bright red carpet for them...the Democrats are registering them to vote as fast as they can be given free housing and welfare benefits and their kids a free US education, complete with univerity scholarships.

It has crossed my mind to denounce my US citizenship, flee to Mexico, work hard to get my Mexican citizenship and then sneak back in...man...that's the way to get top grade US citizenship rights.....Of course, I would have to be careful not be policed up by the Mexican border agents...I hear they tend to treat their illegals a bit differently than we treat them here in the US. Might be overly harsh...I guess I'll just have to stay put and accept my second class citizenship status.

[Ordie]

It has crossed my mind to denounce my US citizenship, flee to Mexico, work hard to get my Mexican citizenship and then sneak back in...man...that's the way to get top grade US citizenship rights....

You know, that actually happened..... from 1821 to 1835, 13,500 Anglo-American families migrated into Mexico. Some fleeing from judicial persecution, debt collectors or seeking a new life.

Long story short...the Anglo-Americans and Tejanos revolted and created the Republic of Texas. Which evenually became a US and Confederate State.

[ElHombre]

You know, that actually happened..... from 1821 to 1835, 13,500 Anglo-American families migrated into Mexico. Some fleeing from judicial persecution, debt collectors or seeking a new life.

The authorities back in the states would write 'G.T.T.' in their books when that happened. 'Gone To Texas', shorthand for 'they're beyond our reach'.

[Felix U. Gómez]

I would imagine the ACLU would be all over that kind of illegality....and there would probably be all sorts of investigations. not!!!!! Anything Mexican is now holy...and not to be violated, including Mexican nationals who are in the USA illegally...they are rapidly becoming a protected class. Our government has decided to just roll out the bright red carpet for them...the Democrats are registering them to vote as fast as they can be given free housing and welfare benefits and their kids a free US education, complete with univerity scholarships.

It has crossed my mind to denounce my US citizenship, flee to Mexico, work hard to get my Mexican citizenship and then sneak back in...man...that's the way to get top grade US citizenship rights.....Of course, I would have to be careful not be policed up by the Mexican border agents...I hear they tend to treat their illegals a bit differently than we treat them here in the US. Might be overly harsh...I guess I'll just have to stay put and accept my second class citizenship status.

You seem to have a lot of trouble distinguishing between a Mexican that entered the US without legal documents and people of Mexican descent that are born in the US, some of which whose families have been in the US longer than yours. As far as I know, only US citizens can vote in your country, just as only Mexicans can vote in mine. What you are saying about democrats registering illegal aliens to vote as fast as they can, is to quote a popular saying in your country "mierda de toro". What you are seeing is actual US citizens of Hispanic descent registering to vote in record numbers as a reaction to the increased radical xenophobic attitudes of extreme right wingers in your country and the policies that they support.
As for illegal aliens becoming a "protected class", tell that to the ones whose kids have been taken out of school by sheriff officers in the middle of the day because their parents were caught in a raid. I'm sure that they felt very "protected" at the time.
If you want to come to Mexico to become a legal resident and then a citizen, I would bet you ten to one that it would take a fraction of the time of what it would take vise-versa.
As for the way that we treat undocumented aliens, we know that it could be better, in fact we demand that it be improved, and the Mexican government is rapidly replacing old facilities to do so. You hear about abuses because there is a government entity whose role is to police these matters, and we constantly hear about it on the national news. You see we do air out these things, while you tend to sweep them under the rug. I bet you anything that more Mexicans die each year at the hands of the USBP than Central Americans at the hands of Mexican Immigration.
Nice of you to catch that thing about the ABP just being a bunch of vigilantes. It is still a violation of airspace.

[deadtired]

I bet you anything that more Mexicans die each year at the hands of the USBP than Central Americans at the hands of Mexican Immigration.


I have no doubt that both agencies treat those that they catch in a professional manner, so I think the number that die "at the hands of the USBP" is very very small.

I will agree that a lot of illegal aliens die at along the US/Mexico border, but I don't think you can lay those deaths at the feel of the USBP. After all, the Border Patrol can hardly be held responsible for the deaths of people who are trying to evade them.

While I disagree with your views about the immigration issue, I think the rest of your post is pretty much correct.

[Ordie]

The closer you are at the border, the more rational you become.

[Mastermind]

Yeah...it's really too bad about those poor kids being jerked out of the free US school class rooms because their illegal parents were rounded up. What a rotten thing for any kid to have to go through....it's just absolutely terrible. I would never put my kids in a situation like that...I just could not do it. I would never sneak across an international border, put them in school in the country I was hiding out in and then let the national immigration police come to grab them when I got caught and deported...that would just be a terrible situation to put my kids in. I would be a disgusting prick of a parent if I ever did that to them.

[ElHombre]

I would be a disgusting prick of a parent if I ever did that to them.

The problem those parents have is that the situation back home would be an even worse one to put their kids in.


What you are seeing is actual US citizens of Hispanic descent registering to vote in record numbers as a reaction to the increased radical xenophobic attitudes of extreme right wingers in your country and the policies that they support.

Right on the money. People forget that the Bush and Rove were making limited inroads with the Hispanic community by focusing on supposed 'conservative values' such as abortion and family and de-emphasizing the Nativist sentiment in the R party. The nativists are shredding those gains. :lol:

[Shadowstorm]

American Border Patrol consider Mexicans even ones that are born here or are legally here are consider them threats and blaming most if not all their problems to Mexicans. It's unbelievable when you read this bulls**t.

[Ordie]

American Border Patrol consider Mexicans even ones that are born here or are legally here are consider them threats and blaming most if not all their problems to Mexicans. It's unbelievable when you read this bulls**t.

I guess that includes majority of the US Border Patrol Agents who are of Hispanic background.

I'd bet the majority of them have not even traveled into Mexico. If so I think they will come away changed.

[Mastermind]

The problem those parents have is that the situation back home would be an even worse one to put their kids in.



Right on the money. People forget that the Bush and Rove were making limited inroads with the Hispanic community by focusing on supposed 'conservative values' such as abortion and family and de-emphasizing the Nativist sentiment in the R party. The nativists are shredding those gains. :lol:

"Nativist"..now that's a new one...you mean we are no longer "Neo-Cons"..we are now American natives and we want to protect our "Native Lands" against those who would illegally enter them.....so, we are "Nativists" and we belong to the "Nativist Movement"...That's totally awesome!

Ah..I think I am beginning to understand...so Mexico is so bad, people are fleeing...they are actually not Illegal Immigrants...they are economic refugees. Conditions in Mexico must be completely horrible! I guess I missed the international news about how many thousands are starving to death in Mexico. I suppose, if they are refugees, they should apply properly to the US consulate for refugee status. At least as refugees, they would have some simblance of legality.

Wow! If conditions are so terrible in Mexico that people would put their very own children into terrible risk of being roundned up by "Nativist" thug immigration police, snatched out of school and such, Mexico must be a very nasty place to live, indeed....Poor kids...that's just not right.

[Ordie]

Yeah...it's really too bad about those poor kids being jerked out of the free US school class rooms because their illegal parents were rounded up. What a rotten thing for any kid to have to go through....it's just absolutely terrible. I would never put my kids in a situation like that...I just could not do it. I would never sneak across an international border, put them in school in the country I was hiding out in and then let the national immigration police come to grab them when I got caught and deported...that would just be a terrible situation to put my kids in. I would be a disgusting prick of a parent if I ever did that to them.

I agree with you.

However, as the border get tight, the less chances to visit friends and families who rely on thier income. Some undocumented immigrants are compelled to keep thier families together regardless of the cost. There are many workers that I've known who have not seen thier children for many years. Many opt to stay for fear of not able to return to the US.

The guest worker program that was killed in the Senate would have prevented such forced separations. It would have allowed many workers to cross back and forth in a legal and dignified manner and keep thier families safe at home.

[Felix U. Gómez]

Yeah...it's really too bad about those poor kids being jerked out of the free US school class rooms because their illegal parents were rounded up. What a rotten thing for any kid to have to go through....it's just absolutely terrible. I would never put my kids in a situation like that...I just could not do it. I would never sneak across an international border, put them in school in the country I was hiding out in and then let the national immigration police come to grab them when I got caught and deported...that would just be a terrible situation to put my kids in. I would be a disgusting prick of a parent if I ever did that to them.

I guess then that you would think that back in WWII when they were working the fields in your country and feeding the lot of you, and their kids weren't going to school, but rather picking crops right their next to their parents all day, that you thought that the parents weren't that much of pricks. Why send them to school, when they could be making some farmer rich?
A prick to me is someone that teaches his kids values regarding the races that went out back in the sixties in your country. Like asserting that one race has a higher IQ than another, I believe someone said once on this site.
P.S. I really doubt that you've ever been to México, you probably think that your pre-conceived ideas are good enough in the place of travel or education.

[Ordie]

"Nativist"..now that's a new one...you mean we are no longer "Neo-Cons"..we are now American natives and we want to protect our "Native Lands" against those who would illegally enter them.....so, we are "Nativists" and we belong to the "Nativist Movement"...That's totally awesome!.

It's not new. actually that movement did exist....

The nativist movement of the 1830's in the US started in response to high level of Irish Immigration into the US. It was especially active in New York where many of the "natives" viewed the Irish Catholics as a threat for taking up low paying jobs and many felt hostile to Amerian values.

The "Know-nothing Party" which eventually became the American Party ran on an anti-immigrant / anti-Catholic platform. Millard Fillmore tried to win back the Presidency as an American Party ticket but failed.

I recommend watching the "Gangs of New York" where Nativist battle the Irish for control of the Five Corners in New York.

[Felix U. Gómez]

I agree with you.

However, as the border get tight, the less chances to visit friends and families who rely on thier income. Some undocumented immigrants are compelled to keep thier families together regardless of the cost. There are many workers that I've known who have not seen thier children for many years. Many opt to stay for fear of not able to return to the US.

The guest worker program that was killed in the Senate would have prevented such forced separations. It would have allowed many workers to cross back and forth in a legal and dignified manner and keep thier families safe at home.

You are right on the money. The Mexican government even proposed to the US government that it could arrange for some sort of medical insurance program for the guest workers. Making the program even less of an economic burden for the US.

[Felix U. Gómez]

The nativist movement of the 1830's in the US started in response to high level of Irish Immigration into the US. It was especially active in New York where many of the "natives" viewed the Irish Catholics as a threat for taking up low paying jobs and many felt hostile to Amerian values.


Interesting. Deja Vous. Nes pa?
What happened? Did they build a wall? Did they send them back? Did they stay and pervert American values? Was the US ever the same? Sounds horrible.

[Ordie]

Interesting. Deja Vous. Nes pa?
What happened? Did they build a wall? Did they send them back? Did they stay and pervert American values? Was the US ever the same? Sounds horrible.

Nah... The Civil War happened, the US needed all the manpower they can get to win the war. There were cases where people would get off the boat sign up and go to war.

The Irish eventually swelled up the NYPD and Fire department ranks after the war and no New York police or fire chief got the job without the blessing of the Bishop. American police officers were traditionally an Irish trade.

Since the 20th century, no New York politician ever won without visiting the three "I"'s (Ireland, Italy and Israel). Pretty soon the Dominican Republic will be on that campaign junket.

[Felix U. Gómez]

Yeah, but now they have Saints Patrick's Day and they have to settle for drinking green beer. I would call that a terrible perversion of American values. Mastermind must be heartbroken.

All kidding aside, history has a funny way of repeating itself doesn't it? (and some people never learn)
Also I have a deep respect for the Irish. As a Mexican I will never forget the sacrifice that they did for us back in 1847.
Vivan los San Patricios!

[Ordie]

Anti-immigrant sentiments happens with every wave of immigration into the United States. Its nothing new.

Irony here is that the country would not be where it is now without immigrants.

I respect Mastermind opinions even though I may disagree with him at times. But that's what America is all about.

[shocker1]

My God what a bunch of narrow minded apologists. Labeling people like me who demand the law be enforced nativists. Brining up the damn Irish treatment from a time of slavery and poverty. Then Felix with your preaching and highminded **** over a bunch of retards and their remote controlled plane. While your countrymen violate the laws of my country thousands of times a day. Then you suggested the Mexican gov wanted to start some health coverage for your border runners to ease Americas burden. If Mexico has the resources for that how about fixing the damn problems driving your fellow countrymen away.

Ordie you know I am a fair minded guy who supports fair and easy access to seasonal work. I do not feel sorry for your examples that when the border gets tight can't go back and visit family and carry money back. For fear of being made to obey US law. They should have thought of the hardships that come with violating the damn law. An undocumented immigrant Ordie is breaking the law which is why they are illegal immigrants. They may be good nice folks but the first act here is breaking immigration law.

You know I want this fixed, I do not want to deport everybody. I do however demand some respect and when I call for my government to secure my border it is righteous. It really drives me to anger when people class me as a xenophobe, racist, anti-immigration for demanding enforcment.

[Mastermind]

Yeah...I've been...and not to the tourists traps. I saw with my own eyes the real Mexico. I know where these people come from. Mexico really does have reasons to keep the tourists away from all that. The Mexican gvt and the US gvt are partners in one of the world's great human tragedies. And, it's the primary reason the border will never be secured. It's modern day slavery....it preys on human misery and it's one of the most disgusting things in history.

Yeah, I've been...I saw it all, from both sides...and I know what the whole thing is about. I only wish more U.S. citizens could see it. But, I don't think the Katie Courics are all that interested in the level of human misery the Mexican illegal immigrant situation generates. They have no concept of it and they don't want to know.

[Dragunov]

Yeah...I've been...and not to the tourists traps. I saw with my own eyes the real Mexico. I know where these people come from. Mexico really does have reasons to keep the tourists away from all that. The Mexican gvt and the US gvt are partners in one of the world's great human tragedies. And, it's the primary reason the border will never be secured. It's modern day slavery....it preys on human misery and it's one of the most disgusting things in history.

Yeah, I've been...I saw it all, from both sides...and I know what the whole thing is about. I only wish more U.S. citizens could see it. But, I don't think the Katie Courics are all that interested in the level of human misery the Mexican illegal immigrant situation generates. They have no concept of it and they don't want to know.

Jesus Christ... Chill out buddy.
What else did yu see? Dogs raping humans?

[AZRON]

The Mexican army has every right to be on the border.
Are some of them corrupted by the vast pool of criminal money... surely.
Is the Mexican economy a screwed up oilgarch controlled cesspool ... absolutely but less than a decade ago.

But, but , but ..........Calderon is making slow and steady progress to bring the economy into the 21st century. He is also serious about rooting out border related criminal gangs and networks.
V. Fox wanted to do the same but lacked the political savy and guts of Calderon and results were less than expected.
The immigration problem is a shared one between serious conflicts of interest politics in the U.S. and the Mexican Oligarchs control of the Mexican economy.

[Ordie]

An undocumented immigrant Ordie is breaking the law which is why they are illegal immigrants. They may be good nice folks but the first act here is breaking immigration law.

If everyone were caught breaking laws today, everyone would be in jail including the cops. The more laws we create the more criminals we have.

Immigration laws in this country were created and changed as a means to placate public sentiments or national needs. In each case, the laws were developed during periods of Anti-immigrant sentiments and retracted during times of war or economic prosperity.

I would not be surprised if many of these laws are still on the books. getting them enforced and prosecuted is another matter.

To be fair, Mexico also has a history of anti-immigrant and discrimination policies. One example until recently the ban of foriegners from owning property. Chinese immigrants especially in Mexicali were subjected to very harsh treatment and whatever happened to the African-Mulatto communities in Mexico that were once previlant during the Spanish period?

Here are some examples:


1795:Naturalization Act restricts citizenship to “free white persons” who reside in the United States for five years and renounce their allegiance to their former country.
1798:Alien and Sedition Acts permit the President to deport any foreigner deemed to be dangerous.
1808: Congress bans importing more slaves, but it’s still legal to enslave those Blacks who are already here, as well as their children.
1840-1860: Potato Famine drives almost 1.5 million Irish to the U.S. A large anti-immigrant movement soon arises, gains respectability and institutionalized strength, including a major political party.
1847: Mexican-American War is settled with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in Around 80,000 Mexicans decide to become U.S. citizens.
1849: The Gold Rush in California increases immigration from China, California imposes Foreign Miner’s Tax and enforces it mainly against Chinese miners, who were often forced to pay more than once.
1854: The anti-immigrant era that is strengthening in the East over the newly arriving Irish manifests itself on the West Coast in discrimination against Chinese. Chinese immigrants are prohibited from testifying against whites in California courts.
1858: California passes a law to bar entry of Chinese and “Mongolians.”
1859:Chinese children are excluded from San Francisco public schools.
1870: California passes law against importation of Chinese, Japanese, & “Mongolian” women for prostitution.
1882:Chinese Exclusion Act prevents any Chinese without family already in the United States from immigrating.
1892: Ellis Island opens in New York harbor that processes over 12 million immigrants, mainly Europeans, over the next 30 years.
1901: Congress to enact the Anarchist Exclusion Act, which allows immigrants to be excluded on the basis of their political opinions.
1907: Immigration law can be used to perpetuate the values that the government supports during aparticular time. One of those values at the turn of the century was to be strongly opposed to “intermarriage”—women marrying outside of their ethnic group. To give this value legal standing, The Expatriation Act took away the citizenship of American women who marry foreign nationals.
1907: Under the Gentleman’s Agreement with Japan, the United States agrees not to restrict Japanese immigration. However, in exchange, Japan promises not to issue passports to Japanese laborers for travel to the continental United States. This makes immigration to the U.S. available only to elite Japanese.
1910: Angel Island Immigration Station opens in San Francisco Bay to process and deport mainly Asian immigrants.
1913: California’s Alien Land Law prohibits “aliens ineligible for citizenship” from owning property in the state. It provides the model for similar acts in other states.
1910-1917: Mexican Revolution pushes the first Mexican political refugees into the U.S.
1917: Congress enacts a the law also specifies that immigration is prohibited from Asia, except the Philippines and Japan.
1921: The Quota Act limits annual European immigration to 3 percent of the number of a nationality group already living in the United States as of 1910.
1924: Congress limits annual European immigration to 2 percent of the number of nationality group already living in the UnitedStates as of 1890.
1924: The Oriental Exclusion Act prohibits most immigration from Asia, including foreign-born wives and children of U.S. citizens of Chinese ancestry. The act places no limit on immigration within the hemisphere, which caused the immigration from Mexicoto increase as employers looked south to find cheap labor.
1929: The annual immigration ceiling of 150,000 is made permanent.
1930s: During times of economic hardship, immigrants are often blamed. During the Great Depression, many Mexicans, both those with documents and those without, were sent back to Mexico.
1940: The bureaucracy around immigration continues to grow. The Alien Registration Act requires the registration and fingerprinting of all immigrants in the United States over the age of 14.
1942: War changes U.S. immigration policy in order to get as many soldiers as possible. For example, Filipinos are reclassified as U.S. citizens, making them eligible for the military draft.
1942 Executive Order 9066 authorizes the military to evacuate 112,000 Japanese-Americans from the Pacific coast and placed them in ten internment camps.
1943: Because of the wartime alliance with China, the Chinese Exclusion Act is repealed.
1943 Because of the shortage of agricultural workers caused by the war, Congress creates the Bracero Program, a guest-worker program bringing temporary workers into the United States from Mexico.
1945:The War Brides Act allows foreign-born wives of U.S. citizens who had served in the U.S. armed forces to enter the United States.
1946: The Philippinesare officially granted independence on July 4, 1946 but in exchange, Filipinos are stripped of their status as U.S. nationals and the immigration quota for the entire country is set at 50 people per year.
1948: The Displaced Persons Act permits Europeans displaced by the war to enter the United States outside of immigration quotas.
1950: The Internal Security Act of 1950 bars admission to any foreigner who is a Communist or who might engage in activities “which would be prejudicial to the public interest, or would endanger the welfare or safety of the United States.”
1952: McCarran WalterImmigration Act affirms the national-origins quota system of 1924 and limits total annual immigration to one-sixth of one percent of the population of the continental United States in 1920 (a very, very small number).
1954: The Bracero program is temporarily halted and Operation Wetback forces the return of many undocumented workers to Mexico.
1965:Immigration and Nationality Act changes the preference system from that in 1924 to place priority on employable skills and familial relationships. The law still has separate quotas for the Eastern and Western Hemispheres.
1978: Worldwide immigration ceiling is introduced. A new total annual immigration ceiling of 290,000 replaces the separate ceilings for the Eastern and Western Hemispheres.
1980:Refugee Act, enacted in response to the boat people fleeing Vietnam, grants asylum to politically-oppressed refugees. Under the new law, refugees are defined as those who flee a country because of persecution “on account of race, religion, nationality, or political opinion.”
1986:Immigration Reform and Control Act. The aim of IRCA was to make it difficult for undocumented to find employment, while at the same time providing business with a reliable supply of cheap labor. IRCA also gave “amnesty” to 3 million undocumented immigrants.
1990:The Immigration Act of 1990 increases the number of immigrants allowed into the United States each year to 700,000. Ten thousand permanent resident visas are offered to those immigrants agreeing to invest at least $1 million in U.S. urban areas or $500,000 in U.S. rural areas.
1996: Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRIRA) expands INS enforcement operations, eliminates basic rights of due process for immigrants and cuts down on avenues for immigrants to legalize their status.

[shocker1]

Ordie, water down my stand all you want. The fact is the US border is what it is a damn international border. I want it enforced and respected. Once again you equate my stand with "anti-immigrant", each time you do that I loose a little confidence in your non biased approach. Undocumented foreign nationals illegally entering this country are in the wrong not me. I do not care what color or nationality they are.

So what I gather from this last post is immigration laws are a burden on those wanting to get in this country now bypassing the legal channel. You do not want them enforced and anyone who thinks we should is a supporter of anti-immigration policies. Tell you the truth I am a little perturbed by that view you have.

[Felix U. Gómez]

Yeah...I've been...and not to the tourists traps. I saw with my own eyes the real Mexico. I know where these people come from. Mexico really does have reasons to keep the tourists away from all that. The Mexican gvt and the US gvt are partners in one of the world's great human tragedies. And, it's the primary reason the border will never be secured. It's modern day slavery....it preys on human misery and it's one of the most disgusting things in history.

Yeah, I've been...I saw it all, from both sides...and I know what the whole thing is about. I only wish more U.S. citizens could see it. But, I don't think the Katie Courics are all that interested in the level of human misery the Mexican illegal immigrant situation generates. They have no concept of it and they don't want to know.

Wow! An expert on México!!! Care to tell us where and when you were in México? I mean the name of the place? What you were doing there also, in a non-tourist trap location? I sincerely doubt that you were a missionary.
According to your "wide-minded" view of things, in México there are two kinds of places: tourist traps, like the pyramids and the Cañón del Cobre (which we built specially for tourists, and which we keep sorrounded by armed guards so as to keep you tourists from seeing the forbiden areas), and dumps, where we live (and the government keeps you out so you won't see how we live). Also, according to your well-educated perspective, there are only two types of Mexicans, dirt poor and stinking rich. Since I am not rich by any means, I guess that I am dirt poor and live in a dump. Thanks for opening my eyes Mr. Mexicanologist expert who has studied all about Mexican history and has traveled all over my country. Next time that you pass on one of your multiple trips, allow me to take you on a tour of the trash dump.
I don't know why we bother trying to educate you, you have your set notions that you got from some Chuck Norris or John Wayne movie, and that is it. The world is either black or white according to you. You think that you actually know more than a Mexican about México.
I've been to trailer parks in the US and places like the Segundo Barrio in El Paso, and I have friends that have been in poor black neighborhoods in parts of the south. I've also been to Las Vegas. Should I imagine that the US is either a dump or a tourist traps too? That would be your style of learning.

[shocker1]

I just want to point out I love Mexico and her people. No matter where they live and have no ill bias. I just want things fixed and I want people to obey the damn law like I do.

As far as this thread I am glad somebody is patrolling the border. One would think Mexico can have the military patrolling the border, we do.

[Felix U. Gómez]

and whatever happened to the African-Mulatto communities in Mexico that were once previlant during the Spanish period?



They actually blended in with time. Haven't you ever seen a curly haired Mexican? Blacks, although they were originally slaves during the colonial period, were never treated as harshly as they were in the South of the United States. I've read of cases where slaves actually sued their masters and won, something unheard of in the English colonies. Slavery was abolished in Mexico by 1824, one of the main reasons for the Texas revolt by the way.

[Felix U. Gómez]

I just want to point out I love Mexico and her people. No matter where they live and have no ill bias. I just want things fixed and I want people to obey the damn law like I do.

As far as this thread I am glad somebody is patrolling the border. One would think Mexico can have the military patrolling the border, we do.

I can feel your love all the way over here dude. Keep radiating it please.

[shocker1]

I can feel your love all the way over here dude. Keep radiating it please.
http://smileydatabase.com/s/103.gif

[bryanleu2002]

Helicopter or UAV, the picture was still taken from south of the international line. It shouldn't have been there. I wonder what the reaction would be should a Mexican UAV take pictures of US border patrolmen or national guardsmen from within US territory?


It sounds as though the ABP is assisting with USBP , cohesivley working together, to stop law breakers, sounds like a good idea to me.

February 8, 2007
American Border Patrol (http://www.americanborderpatrol.com/)
Group of suspected border intruders runs south toward border ahead of pursuing Border Patrol agents. Location is Ladd Ranch in Southeastern Arizona. Guides (shown with black arrows) broke off and tried to evade BP by running into a wash. ABP's Border Hawk M followed them and guided the agents for a successful apprehension. ABP shot High Definition video of the entire chase. Glenn Spencer was at the controls of the Border Hawk M and Mike King and Mike Christie were taking video and still photos.


http://www.americanpatrol.com/ABP/PHOTO-OF-THE-DAY/2007/IMAGES/070208.jpg

Closeup of the camera. Both daylight and night (infrared) cameras are used.

http://www.desertinvasion.us/photos/pic_abp_2004may_img_0104.jpg

Inside the mobile control and communications van.

http://www.desertinvasion.us/photos/pic_abp_2004may_img_0099.jpg

One of the flight control screens. The topographic map displays the flight path.
http://www.desertinvasion.us/photos/pic_abp_2004may_img_0093.jpg

[Ordie]

So what I gather from this last post is immigration laws are a burden on those wanting to get in this country now bypassing the legal channel. You do not want them enforced and anyone who thinks we should is a supporter of anti-immigration policies. Tell you the truth I am a little perturbed by that view you have.

That is the reality. 40% of undocumented immigrants arrive through legal means only to overstay thier visas beacuse the system is not working. This is because our immigration laws and policies is very much like our tax codes, a patchwork quilt of exceptions and quotas. Moreover, there is an inconsistant policy on who gets in or not.

And its all political, not reason

For Cubans, if they reach the shores of Florida, they get in free. For Haitians doing the same, they take the next boat back to Port au Prince.

Both China and Taiwan are given the equal quota of 40,000 resident visas, that tips the scale in favor of the Taiwanese based on Cold War policies.

Let's not get started on the H1-B visas for high tech workers while produce are left rotting in the fields.

You are right in that a nation state has the right to manage its borders the right to enforce and persecute its laws.

You and I know the system is not working. There should be a system based on the demands of the economy and skills.

Unfortunately, as in past cases, immigration policy is muddled with an appeal to emotion and politics. Not on a cost-benefit analysis and research.

Perhaps your right.
Perhaps the the only way to change laws is to enforce it to the fullest.

It is estimated that $41 Billion is needed for mass deportation.
It is estimated that undocumented immigrants contributes $7 Billion into the economy.

Therefore the question becomes who is willing pay for the difference.

[shocker1]

You are right in that a nation state has the right to manage its borders the right to enforce and persecute its laws.

You and I know the system is not working. There should be a system based on the demands of the economy and skills.


Well we do agree here. Oh and I aint even getting started on the wet foot dry foot Cuban policy. We have drifted off topic a bit. We will pick up in the next immigration thread. There will be another anytime.:)

[Tokamak]

Sorry I just couldn't avoid making a comment on this problem. I believe the problem starts in Mexico. If Mexico finally decides to forget about corruption and get rid of all those f**** politicians then many people wouldn't have to flee to other countries. Now there is a problem already, and the US has to do something about it. Sochker 1 made a comment on another thread that I totally agreed with. Those who have followed the rules and have already paid taxes and are decent workers should be given the opportunity to stay, probably the have shown to be worthy of this opportunity.

I haven't seen the real poverty in Mexico but my wife has. She worked as volunteer with the Jesuits many times and the things she tells me are quite depressing. True things are not like in Africa, but in any case they are not as good as they should be. I am not saying things are bad everywhere but it would be blind to say things are perfect.

[Felix U. Gómez]

http://smileydatabase.com/s/103.gif

You know Shocker, there is a big cultural difference with this little smilie that you chose here. In the US you'd be telling someone to kiss your behind like this, but in my country, you'd be offering the services of your rear end to someone. I'm left wondering ???

[Dragunov]

You know Shocker, there is a big cultural difference with this little smilie that you chose here. In the US you'd be telling someone to kiss your behind like this, but in my country, you'd be offering the services of your rear end to someone. I'm left wondering ???

HAHAHA that is so true. rofl

Did shocker just came out of the closet?



Just kidding.


Greetings.

[shocker1]

HAHAHA I guess it would be in the eye of the beholder. So this means you guys are ****e to taking it in the rear?

[Felix U. Gómez]

We're not the ones with the senators asking for favors in public restrooms my friend. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

[Mastermind]

Wow...now theres a real expert on the USA...Senators taking in public restrooms = all senators...Ha!

The bottom line is...US borders are legal international borders...Mexicans protect their borders with vengeance and military and they deport their illegals very quickly - children, old men, old women, poor people, they don't care...to the Mexican authorities, an illegal is an illegal. And, the USA should be doing exactly the very same thing. Yet, when we do, some how, folks like Mr. F consider us racists and bigots....it's the old double standard...what ever fits your agenda, that's your morality.

Well, all the fussing in the world is not going to change anything as it happens to be. Mexicans will still crash our borders, we'll still protect them and coddle them and use them like modern day slaves and little political pawns. Mexico will still be a haven for abject poverty and disgusting class division...and will still treat their illegals like dirty curr dogs, and the world will still go on turning. And tomorrow, the level of human misery on this planet will be about the same as it was today.

[Ordie]

Mexico will still be a haven for abject poverty and disgusting class division...and will still treat their illegals like dirty curr dogs, and the world will still go on turning. And tomorrow, the level of human misery on this planet will be about the same as it was today.

At least its not Iraq.

But you're right, economic policies need to be changed in Mexico.
Otherwise how could one explain that the richest man in the globe, Carlos Slim, is from Mexico with an economy about the size of Ohio?

[Felix U. Gómez]

Wow...now theres a real expert on the USA...Senators taking in public restrooms = all senators...Ha!

The bottom line is...US borders are legal international borders...Mexicans protect their borders with vengeance and military and they deport their illegals very quickly - children, old men, old women, poor people, they don't care...to the Mexican authorities, an illegal is an illegal. And, the USA should be doing exactly the very same thing. Yet, when we do, some how, folks like Mr. F consider us racists and bigots....it's the old double standard...what ever fits your agenda, that's your morality.

Well, all the fussing in the world is not going to change anything as it happens to be. Mexicans will still crash our borders, we'll still protect them and coddle them and use them like modern day slaves and little political pawns. Mexico will still be a haven for abject poverty and disgusting class division...and will still treat their illegals like dirty curr dogs, and the world will still go on turning. And tomorrow, the level of human misery on this planet will be about the same as it was today.

Mr. F? What happened, is the name too long for you? What's the matter, did you forget the names of all the places in México where you went that allowed you to see the "real" México? Because you didn't answer the question Mr. Expert.
I haven't called anybody a racist here, with the sole exception of you. In part, I call you a racist because of many of your views, but mainly because you have claimed in the past on this site, that Mexicans have a lower IQ than anglos, which makes you a racist because you believe that one race is superior to another, and because you yourself have admitted to being one. If you don't recall you did so on a Pancho Villa thread not too long ago.
As for the right of the US to protect its borders, show me were I said that it couldn't? However, I do have a problem when vigilante groups start taking it so serious that they start giving themselves the freedom to spy on our troops and cross into our territory and airspace.
I think that US policy towards immigrants stinks of hypocrisy, that is what I think. At times almost begging for Mexican laborers and at times bordering on hysteric xenophobia with cries of "they took our jobs" and terrorist infiltrators. Just carefully look at the list that Ordie provided and you will see that "on again"- "off again" policy. Personally, I agree with the guest worker program that Shocker has been talking about. I think that it is a good and sensible short term solution to the problem, because in the long term the only real solution will be the strengthening of the Mexican Economy (which is not the size of Ohio's, sorry, it is bigger). That is something that only Mexicans will do, and I am not a pessimist like you because I have lived here for nearly four decades, and have seen my country greatly evolve in many respects during that period. Unlike you, it did not take me one afternoon at a dump to get an idea of what my country is about and what it is capable of, I'm slower than you, it took me 39 years. I firmly believe that Mexico will evolve, grow, and one day, within my lifetime, will become a world economic power. When the Romans first arrived in Britain, they encountered a bunch of blue painted savages that worshiped trees. They never in their wildest dreams would have imagined that the British would one day become a world empire to rival their own. I know we can achieve greatness too.

P.S. As for mentioning Slim and trying to make him seem like the root of all evils in México, I don't see what the point is. When Nafta started, both AT&T and MCI entered México to compete with Telmex (which Slim had bought from the government). Mexicans like me thought that it would spell the end of Telmex because millions would switch to the cheaper and better quality provided by more efficient US companies. Many of us did. God knows that AT&T and MCI telemarketers did their best in México. But surprisingly, the US phone service providers, with their vast resources, gave us crappier service, at the same price or even more expensive. It doesn't take a mastermind to figure out what happened next. Millions of us made the change back to Telmex. So I guess that you can say that a great part of Mr. Slim's success is owed in part to the pathetic efficiency and greed of US corporations. As a Mexican I would much rather see our phone services in the hands of rich Mexicans than in the hands of rich US corporations. It would be like the maquiladora industry where Mexican workers work their assess off in long shifts for dirt cheap pay, US companies make billions of dollars off their backs, and send most of it back to the US. They really even contribute very little in taxes to state and local governments where they operate.
So, unlike Ordie (whom I do respect), Mr. Mastermind, I don't have much respect for you or agree with much of what you say.

[Dragunov]

Mr. F? What happened, is the name too long for you? What's the matter, did you forget the names of all the places in México where you went that allowed you to see the "real" México? Because you didn't answer the question Mr. Expert.
I haven't called anybody a racist here, with the sole exception of you. In part, I call you a racist because of many of your views, but mainly because you have claimed in the past on this site, that Mexicans have a lower IQ than anglos, which makes you a racist because you believe that one race is superior to another, and because you yourself have admitted to being one. If you don't recall you did so on a Pancho Villa thread not too long ago.
As for the right of the US to protect its borders, show me were I said that it couldn't? However, I do have a problem when vigilante groups start taking it so serious that they start giving themselves the freedom to spy on our troops and cross into our territory and airspace.
I think that US policy towards immigrants stinks of hypocrisy, that is what I think. At times almost begging for Mexican laborers and at times bordering on hysteric xenophobia with cries of "they took our jobs" and terrorist infiltrators. Just carefully look at the list that Ordie provided and you will see that "on again"- "off again" policy. Personally, I agree with the guest worker program that Shocker has been talking about. I think that it is a good and sensible short term solution to the problem, because in the long term the only real solution will be the strengthening of the Mexican Economy (which is not the size of Ohio's, sorry, it is bigger). That is something that only Mexicans will do, and I am not a pessimist like you because I have lived here for nearly four decades, and have seen my country greatly evolve in many respects during that period. Unlike you, it did not take me one afternoon at a dump to get an idea of what my country is about and what it is capable of, I'm slower than you, it took me 39 years. I firmly believe that Mexico will evolve, grow, and one day, within my lifetime, will become a world economic power. When the Romans first arrived in Britain, they encountered a bunch of blue painted savages that worshiped trees. They never in their wildest dreams would have imagined that the British would one day become a world empire to rival their own. I know we can achieve greatness too.

P.S. As for mentioning Slim and trying to make him seem like the root of all evils in México, I don't see what the point is. When Nafta started, both AT&T and MCI entered México to compete with Telmex (which Slim had bought from the government). Mexicans like me thought that it would spell the end of Telmex because millions would switch to the cheaper and better quality provided by more efficient US companies. Many of us did. God knows that AT&T and MCI telemarketers did their best in México. But surprisingly, the US phone service providers, with their vast resources, gave us crappier service, at the same price or even more expensive. It doesn't take a mastermind to figure out what happened next. Millions of us made the change back to Telmex. So I guess that you can say that a great part of Mr. Slim's success is owed in part to the pathetic efficiency and greed of US corporations. As a Mexican I would much rather see our phone services in the hands of rich Mexicans than in the hands of rich US corporations. It would be like the maquiladora industry where Mexican workers work their assess off in long shifts for dirt cheap pay, US companies make billions of dollars off their backs, and send most of it back to the US. They really even contribute very little in taxes to state and local governments where they operate.
So, unlike Ordie (whom I do respect), Mr. Mastermind, I don't have much respect for you or agree with much of what you say.


Well, well, so Mr. Mastermind, expert in Mexican society, is showing his true colors eh.

[shocker1]

We're not the ones with the senators asking for favors in public restrooms my friend. Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Touché, but at least he asked. Some seem to expect favors and change stalls.



You know we are in different countries so agreeing on everything is really impossible. Id agree with what you said in that post to Mastermind. The hypocrisy, corporate abuse of people, wild eyed GTFO American and the need for some kind of special immigration policy for Mexico. I would rather see all three nafta nations to work together to turn things into something to be proud of. I do not like NAFTA and the many problems it brought. All these things need to be revisited and done right. It has not been done right by any of our governments thus the current situation. They are more interested in the corporate interest than the well being of the people. I will say this too that elements from Mexico saying things about some Revolution here, instigating Flag issues and other hateful things are not helping. The two extreme groups are going to take us down the wrong road unless we wake the hell up. On both sides of the border.

[Felix U. Gómez]

I think, Shocker, that you and I agree on more things than we originally thought. I'm all for mutual respect, and trying to find solutions to problems which are essentially shared and to which both nations have a degree of fault. Like you I hope that both our countries wake up and start working more closely together, after all, we will always be neighbors.

[Gabe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe View Post
I just talked to my buddy who is stationed in Nogales and he said the mexican military will double as protection for drug runners. I don't know if that is the case with these guys, but it is possible.
God, we have discussed this issue so many times, and did not ended up very well.
Anyway, as a i have stated before, there might have been an incident where some corrupt commander sold out to drug runners on the border, but again there is no solid evidence. This has become like some urban legend along the border promoted mainly by anti-mexican groups. So yeah, i wouldn't take these stories/accusations seriously.

Greetings.

Honor, valor, lealtad.
Dragunov is offline Report Post Reply With Quote

yup, it is totally out of the question now.