A really random hypothetical question for the Israelis

[StarvingStudent47]

PLEASE EVERYONE, DON'T TURN THIS INTO A FLAMEWAR JUST BECAUSE THE WORD "ISRAELI" IS IN THE SUBJECT. PLEASE. YOU KNOW WHO I'M TALKING TO.

(apologies if anyone is offended by this topic, and yes, I know that it would probably never happen, but as long as I'm drunk I figured I'd ask anyway)

If some random piece of land in a safer part of the world--say, North Dakota or a hefty chunk of Arizona--was offered as an independent Jewish state, an Israel mk. II, would you be willing to move to it? On one side, you wouldn't be living on the historical land of Israel, where Saul, David, and Solomon had walked...but on the other hand, South Dakotans don't suicide bomb, and there's a lot to be said for that.

Thoughts?

[AirZone]

No way :D

Look, Israel is OUR country, where Jews can say they are jewish without fearing from others, can wear kiput, david stars and each... can talk hebrew...Well i know Israel is not the best with economic this days and there are many bad eggs in israel but its MY country =] i love it really much... mabye i will leave Israel after the army to find better oppertunties but i will come back to israel for sure ! its where i borned and where i will die (from being old..hopefully :|) or hell if i will get into the special forces after the gibushim mabye i will be in "Keva"... dunno...I will have to wait and see


But Israel is historicly ours and im not going to give it to some ****ing nomad scum that they thought that if we were away for 2000years they think they can have it!!! no way ;) mabye its childlish but we dont want another anisemite holocost **** like in germany... and you can see many antisemite acts in europe (mostly young muslims but all the nazi groups are rising too)

אין לי ארץ אחרת גם אם אדמתי בוערת
I dont have another country even if my land is burning

good israeli song ;)

:hug: woot :hug: woot

[Fintin]

didnt they already try this with argentina(sp) i know it was befor Israel became a country...but its kinda the same thing....

[weedman]

Look, Israel is OUR country,..bu not just only yours :lol: :roll:

[Ichhabe]

Look, Israel is OUR country,..bu not just only yours :lol: :roll:

That was quite an informative comment. :bash:
Why don't you back it up with some more information? Or is it that you hope it turn in to a flame war. People like you give us at the left side a bad name.

[StarvingStudent47]

STFU, Weedman. You're trying to start a ****ing flamewar and I don't appreciate it.

AirZone--But what if this chunk of land--say, North Dakota--was fully independent? So you could say you're Jewish without fearing from others, can wear kiput, magen davids, can talk in Hebrew, you can still have the Right of Return for world Jewry, and all that. North Dakota only has 600,000 people--the USA could compensate those folks for their land (using money currently for military aid to Israel, as well as the "dollar-for-dollar" aid to Jordan and Egypt) and help them move to South Dakota, Minnesota, and Montana. The Western Wall and the Jerusalem graveyards could be transported to Fargo, where no one would ever desecrate them or attack them again, and people could pray without getting pelted with stones. You wouldn't be a state in the United States, you'd be a separate country between the USA and Canada. You'd be as independent as you are now, except your neighbors would be FRIENDLY.

You'd never have to deal with another suicide bomber again--instead, you'd get lots of tourism, especially American college students looking for dance clubs where they can drink at age 18 ;)

Is the historical factor alone enough to outweigh those other things? Again, I'm genuinely asking, not flaming.

[Jack Mehoff]

They can have that waste land called Nevada.

[mack pl]

Dont forget about Israel economy.Big part of Israel budget is from turistic I guess.North Dakota could be nice,(i dont know),but Israel is more interesting for turists.Regards.

[Jack Mehoff]

But all of that money pay for their military.

[mack pl]

But all of that money pay for their military.well, im not sure.USA support theirs military budget,so maybe they dont spent most of this money(turistic) for army.But israelis here know more about theirs budget.So,how much dd you spent for army????

[AirZone]

Look, Israel is OUR country,..bu not just only yours :lol: :roll: Says who ? some people who doesnt know history ? even the so called UN said its our country...please stop to throw away words at us and go and learn some history but i guess you dont care...after all you are hypcorite and your ignorance is great...
and boy did you heard about the Israeli arbs ? I think they are one of the only arbs that really live good without any problems... (hell some of them dont pay tax like east jerusalem arbs) and i have many christian arb friends... and you dont know how the palastines hate them (the christian with the palastine cause side but the palastines still hate them lol). But again im sure you dont care.. you just see black and white... :roll:


anyway back to the question... No starving, i was borned in this land, people died for this land, people gave thier best years for the land so i will able to walk in here freely without problems... and history said (if not the bible theres many archiology places) the Hebrews lived in here... and i see myself first a Hebrew (I dont really believe in religion.. it brought war, mabye im a Jew but i see myself more as a Hebrew) this is the Hebrew land, we are Hebrews (even you.. you are a jew no?)
but its like asking some Americans patriot to live in another place, im not sure they would want to... but i guess it all about how you care for your country... lol its like telling to the palastines to go to jorden and theres no chance they will want to...

When i know that people died for this country... people dreamed to run away from the horrors of the nazi's dreamed about Israel (when they came it wasnt sooo great but still they managed lol) when i get up each morning and lookin on our sea (i live on the carmel... a mountain in haifa) and i see the beauty of the sunset... i know theres nothing like Israel, and i dont care about enemys surrounding us, we are used to this... and we have suicide bombers in USA you have gang wars... everyone have plus or minus...

I think you got my point ;)


P.S.
Weedman, wanna have a one way trip to Gaza ? im sure you will have fun with your friends. Oh, i remember you dont want too because you wont live like you live now in your high class house in comfort... hypocrite :roll:

[UkrainianAmerican]

Nice post Airzone! woot :hug:

[Herrmannek]

What if you would get land with oil :) ?

[AirZone]

What if you would get land with oil :) ?

Im willing if i will meet super model babes... ;) (and they will be my *** slaves muauauauuaa)


but thats my little dirty fantasy :lol:



Thanks russian... btw if you will visit Israel come to haifa we have MANY russian hotties and i think you will like those ;) (they are so sluty for ****ing sake lol)

[Andyman]

yeah but israel is not historically only theirs. I mean if that were the basis for ownership of land today then Canada and the U.S would belong to the Native Americans and so on and so forth to many examples to explain. But yeah the arabs have been on the same ground as the israelis for the same amount of time. I know that religion is a big flame war starter but the bible if not accpeted for its religious teachings by all is widely accpeted for its acurrate portrayal of actual historical events. Therefore think about it the jews werent always inhabitants of israel cause of the many world powers who took them for use as slaves. Another thing and I'm sure that many are going to refute this but in the bible god even denounces the israellites for their unwillingness to obey him and he says that they will never get the promised land back so i think that the struggle with the arabs is something that israel will have to put up with for a long time. if u want direct quotes just ask me and il put them up!

[fisheyestudio]

Hey howdy hey!

Old testament Scripture contains a series of covenants. There are the un-conditional covenants and the one conditional covenant. How they fit into history and prophesy is very important to understand (or attempt to understand hehe). Many of the Christians I meet and know, havent spent much time with these...I am very curious how this stands among the Jewish community. From interviews and statements, my impression is that the orthodox jews seem to worship the Torah itself and the "land" as opposed to being in love with the God who "wrote" the Torah and gave the land...now, getting back on topic.

The un-conditional covenants are as follows:
The Abrahamic...make a nation, decendants like the stars, bless every nation on the earth through his "seed"
The Palestinian...give him and his decendants the land from the river of Eygpt to the river Euphrates(this condition has yet to be fullfilled...but will be when the messiah comes).
The Davidic...promised King David that a decendant from his line would sit eternally upon an eternal throne.
The New Covenant...God will write His law on their hearts, forgive their sins, allow each of them to "know" him.

The Conditional covenant was given at Mt Sinai when God married the children of israel, the Big Ten. The mosaic law was a blessing to those who kept it and a curse to those who broke it. The New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31) will replace and supercede this covenant.

This is what I remeber off the top of my head but if anyone is interested I can put together a detailed piece with all the relevant scriptures listed.

It is also interesting to note that old testament prophecy confirms that the isralites will be gathered back together in a state of unbelief (secular state, like now) and after being once again scattered, the remenant will be regathered in a state of belief. The Prophet Hosea quotes God as saying, "I go away and return to my place and you will not
see Me again untill you acknowledge your guilt and seek my face and say, Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord."

Sorry for the long post, but if anyone has the eyes to see and searches the scripture as if looking for treasure...the answers are there....

Jesus Blessings!

[AirZone]

yeah but israel is not historically only theirs. I mean if that were the basis for ownership of land today then Canada and the U.S would belong to the Native Americans and so on and so forth to many examples to explain. But yeah the arabs have been on the same ground as the israelis for the same amount of time. I know that religion is a big flame war starter but the bible if not accpeted for its religious teachings by all is widely accpeted for its acurrate portrayal of actual historical events. Therefore think about it the jews werent always inhabitants of israel cause of the many world powers who took them for use as slaves. Another thing and I'm sure that many are going to refute this but in the bible god even denounces the israellites for their unwillingness to obey him and he says that they will never get the promised land back so i think that the struggle with the arabs is something that israel will have to put up with for a long time. if u want direct quotes just ask me and il put them up! If you are talking about the nomad tribes like the beudions ? well i think some in the negev that have israeli citizenship (and some that became palastines or israeli arbs) are mabye (not sure... many nomdas had a visit in here) the owners of this land... anyway UN said yes to Israel so this land is ours, arbs didnt liked that attacked us lost some.. and lostagain and lost again.. we wanted peace we gave some now we are going to give some more and hopefully we will have peace if not the palastines are going to eat ****... and this time we wont be soo friendly like now becuase after we will give the land and we will see (if they will do it of course) they are still attacking in the name of jihad bla bla bla... im not sure sharon will be so human anymore and they will see the warth of pissed israelis =P hehehe and if you are looking from the bible point of view.. we were away for 2000 years...we had holocost...chrsitian killed us in spain... what else do you want from us ffs ?!?!?! if this is our god then he is pretty much sinister :|