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hist2004
10-03-2007, 02:54 PM
They Always Blame Reagan...

His backing of Afghan mujahedeen did not create the Taliban.

by Paul Kengor

10/08/2007, Volume 013, Issue 04

It has become a truism in liberal circles that Ronald Reagan brought us Osama bin Laden and the Taliban. The accusation could already be heard mere weeks after 9/11. Articles developing the "blowback" thesis metastasized around the Internet. Given the staying power of ideologically convenient misinformation, it is worth reviewing the facts of the Reagan administration's support for the mujahedeen, the fighters who resisted the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, and their link with today's Islamic extremists.

The USSR, it will be recalled, invaded Afghanistan on Christmas Eve 1979. The Soviets proceeded to brutalize a country that, though still very poor, had made surprising progress since the 1950s. How would the United States respond?

One man who spoke up promptly was Ronald Reagan, then a candidate for the Republican nomination for president. In a campaign speech in Florida in January 1980, Reagan urged Washington to provide Stinger antiaircraft missiles to Afghans fighting the Red Army. He called specifically for supplying the rebels with "shoulder-launched, heat-seeking missiles that can shoot down Soviet helicopter gunships."

In due course, the Carter administration did aid the mujahedeen. Then in November 1980, Reagan was elected president, and throughout his eight years in office he continued assisting the Afghan rebels. Those American Stingers ultimately became the bullet to the chest of the Soviet campaign, central to the Kremlin's devastating withdrawal from Afghanistan in 1989, and a vital contribution to the demise of the USSR and the end of the Cold War.

The mujahedeen--literally, "strugglers"--were a force specific to the Soviet war in Afghanistan. They comprised an assortment of factions. There were Pashtuns and non-Pashtuns, fundamentalist Sunnis and moderate Sunnis, Shiites, clerics and non-clerics, Wahhabis, Islamists with links to madrassas in Iran and Islamists connected to madrassas in Pakistan, extremists who came out of Hezbollah and extremists with roots in the Muslim Brotherhood. There were even religious reformers who favored a secular state--the polar opposite of the theocracy the Taliban would one day impose on Afghanistan.

While it is true that many of these mujahedeen would later make up the Taliban, others would oppose it and help to drive it from power. In particular, many former mujahedeen joined the Northern Alliance, the Afghan coalition that fought alongside U.S. troops in October and November 2001 to overthrow the Taliban.

Today, some former members of the mujahedeen are part of the democratic movement trying to move Afghanistan back to the days of promise and modernization that preceded the Soviet ruination of the country. This explains how it is that Hamid Karzai, elected president in 2004, could say fondly, "The people of Afghanistan remember Mr. Ronald Reagan's assistance to Afghanistan during the years of 'jihad' against the Soviets." Karzai is attempting to steer his country toward democracy, a difficult undertaking that has had its bumps. The transition has been flawed, but it is going forward. Certainly, no one could liken Karzai to the Taliban chieftain, Mullah Omar.

Mohammad Ashraf Azeem, a columnist for the Pakistani newspaper Islamabad Khabrain, likewise celebrates Reagan "for checking the Soviet advanc`e in Afghanistan. As a result of this [Afghan] war, the Soviet Union was disintegrated, and its dream of expanding its influence beyond Afghanistan was shattered once and for all." There are numerous voices like his in the region. And on the ground in Afghanistan, when U.S. Special Forces get a tip leading them to one of the fanatical thugs who once cheered the stoning of women in stadiums, it typically comes from someone who opposed the Soviet invader in the 1980s.

That said, it is true that we do not know precisely the percentages of mujahedeen who subsequently joined al Qaeda, the Taliban, the Northern Alliance, and the small but growing band of liberal democrats inside Afghanistan.

But this we do know: To assume that every member of the mujahedeen resembled the 9/11 hijackers is to engage in stereotyping of a kind that usually enrages liberals. Afghans were intimately familiar with the vicious nature of the Marxist regime that the militantly atheist Soviet Union had tried to prop up in Kabul, just as they knew the egregious tactics employed by the Red Army, from the deployment of chemical weapons to the use of ****y-trapped toys. It is understandable that many Afghans--not all of them reactionary Islamic extremists--fought for freedom from these killers.

The mujahedeen would have existed irrespective of U.S. policy--ditto for Osama bin Laden. The Afghan resistance coalesced without us. Our objective was to help it win, and thereby further undermine the Soviet Union at a desperate time in its history. It was the Soviet invasion that drew Osama bin Laden to Afghanistan, not U.S. aid to the resistance. As Olivier Roy wrote in Afghanistan: From Holy War to Civil War: "The mujahedeen consisted of .  .  . elements or factions that all interpreted Islam differently but were united in a common cause--to expel the infidel Soviets."

Finally, anyone who would blame Reagan for supporting the mujahedeen must also point the finger at Democrats: As noted above, it was Jimmy Carter who first began aiding the mujahedeen, at the urging of top advisers like Zbigniew Brzezinski and with the support of a Democratic Congress. And many Democratic congressmen and senators continued to vote to authorize the aid through the Reagan years. Helping the mujahedeen was a no-brainer: It was the right thing to do.

Paul Kengor is the author of The Crusader: Ronald Reagan and the Fall of Communism (HarperCollins, 2006) and God and Hillary Clinton: A Spiritual Life (Harper-Collins, 2007). He is associate professor of political science at Grove City College.

Source: (http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/175wbqpz.asp)

2Sheds_Jackson
10-03-2007, 05:24 PM
That's a good article. As you know, we get the ol' "the CIA created Bin Laden" in here about twice a month. While I'll admit that it's hard to get educated on exactly who was doing what, where, when, and with who's money etc. - it's way to easy for the leftish types to get away with making these claims, uncontested. I've awkwardly ended many a conversation with strangers by barging in with the facts - only to be confronted with a semi-circle of slack-jawed incredulity/outrage...as if I'd just called all their mothers a bunch of filthy whores. Which I'm sure they totally were anyway. p-)

JKD
10-03-2007, 06:59 PM
Finally, anyone who would blame Reagan for supporting the mujahedeen must also point the finger at Democrats: As noted above, it was Jimmy Carter who first began aiding the mujahedeen, at the urging of top advisers like Zbigniew Brzezinski and with the support of a Democratic Congress. And many Democratic congressmen and senators continued to vote to authorize the aid through the Reagan years. Helping the mujahedeen was a no-brainer: It was the right thing to do.

Wow, the Weekly Standard of all publications sort of in a weird way admitting that Carter wasn't the pussy in the face of communisim that modern republican spin would have us believe.

I guess next they'll give us an article along these lines about how Clinton is wrongly demonized for reducing the military when he was really just continuing the policy begun by Bush 41.

Laworkerbee
10-03-2007, 07:11 PM
Wow, the Weekly Standard of all publications sort of in a weird way admitting that Carter wasn't the pussy in the face of communisim that modern republican spin would have us believe.

Carters backing of the Afghan resistance was lukewarm at best.

Looking back I find it ironic that the United States helped overthrow the government of Afghanistan when at least women were allowed to hold jobs and go to school besides other things.

clean
10-03-2007, 07:19 PM
Carter and Reagan both acted and reacted in another world. Where Soviets were the main enemy. This was also 4 or 5 years after the fall of Saigon. Ending a war where the Soviets supplied the NVA/VC. No one was looking at the potential blowback. It was Bush the first who pulled support from Afghanistan. Wasn't it?
We armed the Afghans to defeat the Soviets, and it worked. The Northern Aliance were former muhajdin.

Freedom-Fries
10-04-2007, 03:49 AM
at least this article isn't gay

Liptow
10-04-2007, 05:05 AM
AFAIK Taliban was established in 1994, 5 years after Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan.
Once I read that some 2000 Stingers were delivered and only small part was actually used in combat. However, its performance forced Soviets to re-think their air tactics, switching to high-altitude attack and equipping their A/Cs with flares.
With todays PGMs, JSTARS, GPS, datalinks and real-time information it is easy to operate from higher altitudes beyond the Stinger/SA-7 range but with the 80ties Soviet hardware it had probably significant effect. But saying that Stingers changed the course of Afghan war is too much IMO.

Strange that none of the protesters objects against the weapon deliveries to Stalin in WWII.

maundy
10-04-2007, 05:35 AM
But if the USA did supply the Afghans with training and weapons, how could you not say they aided in the establishment of Al-Qaeda or the Taliban?

Like how in the USA certain citizens supplied the IRA with weapons, can you say they also were not helping with the set up of the IRA?

2+2=4.

2RHPZ
10-04-2007, 05:48 AM
Those, who are blaming Reagan for backing mujahedeens, do not understand the global politics. Thanks Hist2004 for posting.

maundy
10-04-2007, 05:58 AM
Even back in those days they were anti Western.

Surely he knew the global implications of what he was doing.

Kilgor
10-04-2007, 06:56 AM
But if the USA did supply the Afghans with training and weapons, how could you not say they aided in the establishment of Al-Qaeda or the Taliban?

Like how in the USA certain citizens supplied the IRA with weapons, can you say they also were not helping with the set up of the IRA?

2+2=4.

The list of who aided the Mujahedeen is quite long, everyone from saudi arabia to china. You cannot create men like that, only arm them.

little icebear
10-04-2007, 02:32 PM
I never read in (at least German) newspapers, that Reagan "created" the Talibs.
It has always been about training and equipment - which is fact, no matter how hard rightwingers might like to rewrite history.

By the Way: The US can´t be blamed exclusively, which seems to be fashion. Several western states where involved. Including Germany.

HR24
10-04-2007, 02:34 PM
Has anybody here ever really understood WTF Bin Laden did during the Afghan War? Because what I've read paints him as a weak-stomached priss who mostly cooled his jets in Pakistan while the real Afghans did all of the fighting. The portrait I've read makes him out to being a coat tail rider.

little icebear
10-04-2007, 02:48 PM
Has anybody here ever really understood WTF Bin Laden did during the Afghan War? Because what I've read paints him as a weak-stomached priss who mostly cooled his jets in Pakistan while the real Afghans did all of the fighting. The portrait I've read makes him out to being a coat tail rider.


From what I´ve read so far UBL eagerly wanted to fight and actually did so, but he turned out to be an incompetent leader in the field when it comes to tactical operations.

hist2004
10-04-2007, 03:09 PM
bin laden’s role during the Soviet-Afghan war was mostly behind the scenes
organizing and recruiting “Arabs” for the jihad. He was reportedly involved
in two battles; Jadji 1986 & Shaban 1987. Both of these accounts are subjects
of dispute. They have solidified binny as the cult leader he is today. When you
think of “al Qaeda” it’s really not bin laden, it’s Al-Zawahiri.

Hist2004

HR24
10-04-2007, 03:33 PM
bin laden’s role during the Soviet-Afghan war was mostly behind the scenes
organizing and recruiting “Arabs” for the jihad. He was reportedly involved
in two battles; Jadji 1986 & Shaban 1987. Both of these accounts are subjects
of dispute. They have solidified binny as the cult leader he is today. When you
think of “al Qaeda” it’s really not bin laden, it’s Al-Zawahiri.

Hist2004

If I remember correctly, he was routed in both instances. Correct me if I am wrong here. I think you are correct in that Al Quaeda is more Zawahiri than Bin Laden.

artistoli
10-06-2007, 03:16 PM
What is quite amusing is that the left-wingers who frequently moan about the west supporting the Taliban against the Soviets and strengthening them are the same people who supported Robert Mugabe in his rise to power; yet they conveniently forget about that for to admit it would mean that we all make mistakes instead of just the right-wing.

CPL Trevoga
10-06-2007, 04:36 PM
You definitely can't blame Reagan for Taliban, but definitely his policy supporting jihadists was an big mistake.

Freedom-Fries
10-09-2007, 08:40 AM
What's all this conspiracy about Arbusto dollars and Binladen money and foreign campaign contributions from Carlyle people ?