S&W's new M&P sniper revolver...pix

[SMGLee]

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/007.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/008.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/012.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/013.JPG

When you are bored at a equipment show, you make things up....

I wonder what kind of accuracy I can obtain with this setup...

[Laconian]

In the next SWAT magazine, someone's gonna say they saw it at the XXXX trade show and the .357 Mag vs. 5.56 vs. .308 sniper round debate will be up and running. Someone will also claim to have made a 200 m kill with this same set-up.

[theholeinthedonut]

Send it to military.com....they will put it on their PDW page!!!!!

[Robbee]

It totally needs a sling.

[Nephilim]

just add a ´nadelauncher and im set

[theholeinthedonut]

You might not believe it but french GIGN once had Manurhin.357 revolvers equipped with bipods!

[JVeld]

I'd like to try that.....damn a six shooter with a EoTech and a TD bipod, why didn't I think of that ?!?!?! LOL ......like Robbee said, it totally needs a sling !

[BillySing]

Chuck an Schmidt and Bender 5-25 x 56 Police Marksman II LP on it, and you've got yourself a customer!! p-)

[DizBukHaPeter]

Ive seen french special police with a setup like that.

[zonk]

add a m203 on it and it'd be str8

j/k that is rediculous espc on a mid length barrel

[gaijinsamurai]

Good one SMGLee! Have the airsofters caught on to this trend yet?

[John Crighton]

I was thinking about buying one of these..

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/Oberschutze916/derringer.jpg

[Hollis]

pretty darn cool, I guess for a anti-tank set up they would use a Smith in the 500 S&W. Or, Maybe for arty support.

[mcc-dano]

D3174's going to be all over that come next fiscal cycle...

[USMC Tanker]

Now I've seen it all...:)

[Irish_11]

I was thinking about buying one of these..

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/Oberschutze916/derringer.jpg
haha Punch's gun lives again. That was a slow day at work

[TacoDelRio]

Pfff, you can't snipe with that, it's not in Flat Dark Earth Brown or whatever.

Everyone knows that.

[Solscud007]

haha funny stuff. this is just airsoft. but silly things can be done by just being creative.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/732/dsc00534vn9.jpg

[angry cow]

Someone really needs to make a rail mounted bayonet . . .

Imagine the possibilities?

[Seraphim]

Someone really needs to make a rail mounted bayonet . . .

Imagine the possibilities?

http://www.stiguns.com/USPress/Gun&Ammo/Comp1911/BookOf1911-05P7.1_640w.jpg

[dobrodan]

http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/cbj/cbj_syst.htm

This is not exactly a sniper weapon, but slightly related... And a bit crazy...

[John Crighton]

haha Punch's gun lives again. That was a slow day at work

I want to know how he made it all stay together. That pic. was an instant classic.

[Beowulf]

ha-ha well done. That and a Rocket Propelled Chainsaw and you'd be set.

[theholeinthedonut]

Someone really needs to make a rail mounted bayonet . . .

Imagine the possibilities?

Already exists....I've seen it in a german gun magazine a few months ago....I think it's CZ made...have to check it though!

[theholeinthedonut]

http://www.gotavapen.se/gota/cbj/cbj_syst.htm

This is not exactly a sniper weapon, but slightly related... And a bit crazy...

And totally fake............

[maw]

Already exists....I've seen it in a german gun magazine a few months ago....I think it's CZ made...have to check it though!

voila!
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/4100/13307vn4.jpg

[maw]

did someone say sniper revolver?
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5570/1177314333364bi7.jpg

[SMGLee]

did someone say sniper revolver?
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5570/1177314333364bi7.jpg

The funny thing is that i took that picture at the KAC facility a few years back.

[Deicide]

You might not believe it but french GIGN once had Manurhin.357 revolvers equipped with bipods!

Et voilà ! :

[StukaJr]

Nice set up! Would be great for hunting Dingo's off a porch...

I didn't believe you at first, but it's one wicked looking piece... p-)


http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5570/1177314333364bi7.jpg

Now, this is just silly... Why would someone make a long barreled revolver super sniper looking set up, while revolver seal loses more gas than any bolt or semi-auto set up?

[dobrodan]

And totally fake............

How would you know?

[D.E. Watters]

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5570/1177314333364bi7.jpg

Now, this is just silly... Why would someone make a long barreled revolver super sniper looking set up, while revolver seal loses more gas than any bolt or semi-auto set up?

That isn't a long barrel; it is a sound suppressor. The trick is that a .30 caliber projectile was loaded in a sabot in a .44 Magnum cartridge case. However, the barrel is bored for the .30 cal projectile alone. The over-sized sabot serves to seal the cylinder/barrel gap.

The goal of this conversion was to provide a subsonic, suppressed weapon with rapid, multi-shot capability, minimal action noise, and no need to hunt down spent cartridge cases. The model shown was based on a Ruger Super Redhawk. A smaller, non-stocked version was made from a Ruger GP100. This used a .22 cal sabotted projectile in a .38 Special cartridge case.

[maw]

here are some other pics i have of that particular gun

i assume this is trey knight holding the gun:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6550/1187672633539vc6.jpg

and here's a picture with one of the intended users:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9269/1181024339018mu2.jpg

[mcc-dano]

Someone really needs to make a rail mounted bayonet . . .

Imagine the possibilities?

I think we need some weaver mounts on a Ka-Bar...to mount a holo sight for those CQC situations...

[theholeinthedonut]

How would you know?

It has been on the internetz for some time. We had a joker called "gotavapn" post it a few days back...have you seen their PDW? Have you ever shot guns? It looked like a cheap setup to fool airsofters, several parts were added so that it could not have worked...+ he put on an acog which makes no real sense ....+ the caliber makes no sense for so short a barrel....+ big point was that they said it was by Saab Bofors, but they do not have anything about a PDW on their site....now you could argue that they pulled out of the programm....so to be sure I called a friend whose wife is from Sweden and her father was a bigshot at Bofors one of the top guys in charge of developing the BILL.......the answer was no, never was such a project...urban legend going around for some years.
Convinced now?

[Masai]

this is really silly....
just becuase you CAN do something, doesnt mean its a good idea.

[supercontra]

Hollywood will be happy, a gun that looks cool for their next sci fi movie

[dobrodan]

It has been on the internetz for some time. We had a joker called "gotavapn" post it a few days back...have you seen their PDW? Have you ever shot guns? It looked like a cheap setup to fool airsofters, several parts were added so that it could not have worked...+ he put on an acog which makes no real sense ....+ the caliber makes no sense for so short a barrel....+ big point was that they said it was by Saab Bofors, but they do not have anything about a PDW on their site....now you could argue that they pulled out of the programm....so to be sure I called a friend whose wife is from Sweden and her father was a bigshot at Bofors one of the top guys in charge of developing the BILL.......the answer was no, never was such a project...urban legend going around for some years.
Convinced now?

I haven´t seen the gun in person, no, but I have seen pictures and details of it from several years ago...

And, yes, I have fired a couple of guns...

I wouldn´t write it off just yet, even though at the moment it´s vapor-ware...

Technically it should be possible to make such a weapon, and being familiar with the Swedes, it would not be an unlikely project for them... They already have some experience with saboted 7.62x51mm sniper-rifles... So why not PDWs??? Even though I wouldn´t deem it as a LMG... Eventually a heavier calibre, and a larger gun...

[D.E. Watters]

It has been on the internetz for some time. We had a joker called "gotavapn" post it a few days back...have you seen their PDW? Have you ever shot guns? It looked like a cheap setup to fool airsofters, several parts were added so that it could not have worked...+ he put on an acog which makes no real sense ....+ the caliber makes no sense for so short a barrel....+ big point was that they said it was by Saab Bofors, but they do not have anything about a PDW on their site....now you could argue that they pulled out of the programm....so to be sure I called a friend whose wife is from Sweden and her father was a bigshot at Bofors one of the top guys in charge of developing the BILL.......the answer was no, never was such a project...urban legend going around for some years.
Convinced now?

Well, if it is an urban legend, it fooled Jane's Information Systems. It is in the 2006-07 Edition of Jane's Infantry Weapons, complete with photos taken by one of the prevous editors.

[StukaJr]

That isn't a long barrel; it is a sound suppressor. The trick is that a .30 caliber projectile was loaded in a sabot in a .44 Magnum cartridge case. However, the barrel is bored for the .30 cal projectile alone. The over-sized sabot serves to seal the cylinder/barrel gap.


Interesting... I didn't realize the sabot case would seal the cylinder/barrel gap - especially once the projectile has passed that gap (once through and past the barrel throat)... It seems to me, that while the projectile is traveling down the bore and the pressure is building - the gases would continue to expand and escape through the cylinder gap...

Without physically moving in the cylinder to seal the chamber at the time of the shot (similar to Nagant revolvers) - suppressing a revolver is a lost battle... My .44 Magnum Ruger produces a blinding flash leaked from the seal - projectile is passing through the seal for only a margin of the bore travel. Revolvers also produce double sonic blasts (equally big) - one from the muzzle and one from the chamber. I'm sure the report has been noticeably reduced by addition of gigantic suppressor, but I bet it fails in test comparison to other suppressed weapons of the similar size - sound and flash, particularly... It's a mighty fine engineering accomplishment to get a Civilian market revolver to shoot effectively with a suppressor, but suggesting it as competition to suppressed rifles is a bit of a stretch...

Like I've said, revolver chamber seal loses way too much gas... Why Military or Law enforcement would go for a less efficient system is beyond me...

[maw]

Interesting... I didn't realize the sabot case would seal the cylinder/barrel gap - especially once the projectile has passed that gap (once through and past the barrel throat)... It seems to me, that while the projectile is traveling down the bore and the pressure is building - the gases would continue to expand and escape through the cylinder gap...

Without physically moving in the cylinder to seal the chamber at the time of the shot (similar to Nagant revolvers) - suppressing a revolver is a lost battle... My .44 Magnum Ruger produces a blinding flash leaked from the seal - projectile is passing through the seal for only a margin of the bore travel. Revolvers also produce double sonic blasts (equally big) - one from the muzzle and one from the chamber. I'm sure the report has been noticeably reduced by addition of gigantic suppressor, but I bet it fails in test comparison to other suppressed weapons of the similar size - sound and flash, particularly... It's a mighty fine engineering accomplishment to get a Civilian market revolver to shoot effectively with a suppressor, but suggesting it as competition to suppressed rifles is a bit of a stretch...

Like I've said, revolver chamber seal loses way too much gas... Why Military or Law enforcement would go for a less efficient system is beyond me...

i'm sure mr. watters can elaborate further...
but afaik, unlike in regular sabot rounds, in this case the sabot isn't intended to travel down the barrel and get discarded out of the muzzle. instead it's role is to specifically fill the cylinder gap. the sabot moves forward 1/8th of an inch (guesstimate) seals the gap, projectile travels down the barrel and most of the gases go into the silencer. assuming the pistol is fired in double action mode, the trigger is squeezed, the chamber rotates - rinse and repeat. the trick is to find a material for the sabot that doesn't cause too much friction in the chamber seal area thereby affecting the action. i wonder how easily the cylinder revolves after a couple of rounds have been fired?

[bas]

The trick is that a .30 caliber projectile was loaded in a sabot in a .44 Magnum cartridge case. However, the barrel is bored for the .30 cal projectile alone. The over-sized sabot serves to seal the cylinder/barrel gap.


I smell BS, how is the cylinder supposed to rotate with a plastic sabot half projecting into the barrel and the rest left in the cartridge?

The way the Nagant revolver does it is by moving the whole cylinder forward, but I don't see room in the frame to allow for that in the photos. Maybe SMGlee can eleborate more since he took the photo.

[D.E. Watters]

I smell BS, how is the cylinder supposed to rotate with a plastic sabot half projecting into the barrel and the rest left in the cartridge?


Simple, the sabot does not enter the barrel. The bore is only big enough to allow the bullet to enter. The expanding gases merely push the sabot tight against the rear of the barrel to seal the cylinder gap.

[maw]

I smell BS, how is the cylinder supposed to rotate with a plastic sabot half projecting into the barrel and the rest left in the cartridge?

The way the Nagant revolver does it is by moving the whole cylinder forward, but I don't see room in the frame to allow for that in the photos. Maybe SMGlee can eleborate more since he took the photo.

because even though the chamber diameter is .44, the barrel is a .30 cal i.e. the diameter of the bullet minus the sabot.

[theholeinthedonut]

Well, if it is an urban legend, it fooled Jane's Information Systems. It is in the 2006-07 Edition of Jane's Infantry Weapons, complete with photos taken by one of the prevous editors.

Linky Linky plz?

But here you go try it out at Saab-Bofors:
http://www.saabgroup.com/en/ProductsServices/products_az.htm

But then you see the wonder weapons like this one:
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2000/2018.htm
And then it evolves:
http://www.specops.com.pl/technika/wachowski/Saab_warrior/Saab_warrior.htm
THE INTRNETZ DONT LIEZ!!!!!!!!THE SAAB ARE VERY GOOD SECRETZ!PSHTT DO NOT TALK ABOUT OUR WONDER PROGRAMM RESEARCH!

[D.E. Watters]

Linky Linky plz?


It is in a book..page 143 in the 2006 edition, pg 231 in the 2005 ed, and pg 221 in the 2004 ed. You could probably look it up online at the Jane's Infantry Weapons webpage, but you have to buy a membership. At last check, the online membership costs more than twice that of the most recent book.

http://jiw.janes.com/public/jiw/index.shtml

FWIW: The text and photos at the SecurityArms site appear to be copied from the Jane's entry.

I remember seeing magazine articles on the CBJ MS as early as 2001.

[BillySing]

here are some other pics i have of that particular gun

i assume this is trey knight holding the gun:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6550/1187672633539vc6.jpg

and here's a picture with one of the intended users:


That's some of the most superfluous modifications I've ever seen on a wheelgun. It's inefficient on so many levels. Why not go just your average AR family semi automatic, but install a brass catcher?

[theholeinthedonut]

It is in a book..page 143 in the 2006 edition, pg 231 in the 2005 ed, and pg 221 in the 2004 ed. You could probably look it up online at the Jane's Infantry Weapons webpage, but you have to buy a membership. At last check, the online membership costs more than twice that of the most recent book.

http://jiw.janes.com/public/jiw/index.shtml

FWIW: The text and photos at the SecurityArms site appear to be copied from the Jane's entry.

I remember seeing magazine articles on the CBJ MS as early as 2001.

So every body and his cat on bs weaponssites knows about the PDW as well as Janes does....sorry but I think Janes did a big fcuk up there.....it should sting your eye just looking at the pic on security arms....do you really think that Saab-Bofors would do a weapon design that looks like something from an welder-turned-artist-on-crack??? Who would have designed a new weapon in 2000 based on sheet metal stamping design?? Be serious! And look at the angle of the foregrip and the distance inbetween the foregrip and the grip..how good do you think are the ergonomics of this gun ???? Do you really think this came from Bofors in the year 2000?

[StukaJr]

Simple, the sabot does not enter the barrel. The bore is only big enough to allow the bullet to enter. The expanding gases merely push the sabot tight against the rear of the barrel to seal the cylinder gap.

and


i'm sure mr. watters can elaborate further...
but afaik, unlike in regular sabot rounds, in this case the sabot isn't intended to travel down the barrel and get discarded out of the muzzle. instead it's role is to specifically fill the cylinder gap. the sabot moves forward 1/8th of an inch (guesstimate) seals the gap, projectile travels down the barrel and most of the gases go into the silencer. assuming the pistol is fired in double action mode, the trigger is squeezed, the chamber rotates - rinse and repeat. the trick is to find a material for the sabot that doesn't cause too much friction in the chamber seal area thereby affecting the action. i wonder how easily the cylinder revolves after a couple of rounds have been fired?

.... Ri-i-i-ght... And how does the cylinder spin to fire the next round, with serrated plastic cylinder with one half jammed into the throat of the barrel and the other still in the cylinder? (Sabot has to protrude out of the cylinder and all the way into the throat to prevent escape of gas) That's one, genius...

Two... Every Sabot round I know, breaks up as it exits the muzzle - apparently, these are some magic Sabots that only protrude into the throat of the barrel and release the .30 cal bullet down .44 Caliber bore... (I'm going to make fun of that later) How that happens is beyond me - it's gotta be some magic plastic that just knows not to get crushed and propelled down the bore... Or is the .30 cal projectile encased in Tungsten case?

This makes me laugh in earnest - a .308" diameter slug that gets spat down a .429" bore - because, like you've said "the sabot does not enter the barrel" (I bet now you wish you could take it back)... What velocity can a .30 cal slug gain when it's spat out of a bore that's 30% wider than bullet's diameter? Chances are - it'll stop while inside the suppressor... Purpose of the Sabot is to seal a smaller projectile in a wider diameter bore - a suggestion that a .30 cal projectile will shoot out of a .44 cal bore is just laughable!

Think!

Added: If there existed proof that this system works - I'd be all over it! It doesn't have to be much! Show me a picture of the cylinder after 50 shots are fired! If the claim above is anything but fan fiction - the cylinder face should be clean of tell-tell circular fouling marks.

[StukaJr]

Here is a .44 Magnum captured with schlieren photography method:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3349/schlieren01hl9.jpg

Now, note the same image captured of a rifle firing:

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1856/schlieren01sh2.gif

[D.E. Watters]

This makes me laugh in earnest - a .308" diameter slug that gets spat down a .429" bore - because, like you've said "the sabot does not enter the barrel" (I bet now you wish you could take it back)... What velocity can a .30 cal slug gain when it's spat out of a bore that's 30% wider than bullet's diameter? Chances are - it'll stop while inside the suppressor... Purpose of the Sabot is to seal a smaller projectile in a wider diameter bore - a suggestion that a .30 cal projectile will shoot out of a .44 cal bore is just laughable!


You keep missing the point that the bore of the barrel is .30 caliber, not .429". Thus, the only the .30 caliber projectile can enter. The .429" sabot stops against the rear of the barrel.

In articles that I've seen, the project was credited to Reed Knight and John Anderson. However, the cartridge concept is derived from an earlier design by Charles R. (Bob) Olsen. He saw it as the basis for a high velocity revolver cartridge without the need to use a bottlenecked case with its setback problems. He called it the Invicta. The models he showed to the shooting press back in the early/mid-80s were built on Dan Wesson revolvers. I suspect that no one wanted to market it due to the possibility that some idiot would slip a standard cartridge into the cylinder and try to shoot it out of the smaller diameter bore.

Olsen's US Patents can be seen online:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=Pi0uAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=4393782#PPA9,M1

http://www.google.com/patents?id=l9EsAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=4457093#PPA2,M1

[D.E. Watters]

Do you really think this came from Bofors in the year 2000?

No, it is reputed to be the product of CBJ Tech AB. It was only sponsored by Saab Bofors for the UK PDW requirement.

I did a little sleuthing. A search for CBJ Tech found a US Patent assigned to them for a firearm rear sight.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=XsgMAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=%22CBJ+Tech%22

From there, I found the name of the inventor: Bertil Johansson. Perhaps that is the BJ in CBJ? Subsequently, I searched for additional patents by Bertil Johansson.

I found several patents which seem to illustrate different design features of the CBJ MS.

Magazine locking means for firearms having a magazine in a pistol grip
http://www.google.com/patents?id=GA4yAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=%22BERTIL+JOHANSSON%22

Apparatus for operating the bolt in automatic weapons
http://www.google.com/patents?id=gPFQAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=%22BERTIL+JOHANSSON%22

Note that the patent drawings look a bit like the CBJ MS without the vertical foregrip.

Then you have more recent patents...

Firing mechanism at firearms
http://www.google.com/patents?id=LJ0MAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=JOHANSSON+BERTIL#PPP1,M1

Sub-calibre projectile and method of making such a projectile
http://www.google.com/patents?id=TeQPAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=JOHANSSON+BERTIL

[theholeinthedonut]

Now we can get closer....another ten posts and it will be "reputedly" sponsored by Bofors......

[StukaJr]

You keep missing the point that the bore of the barrel is .30 caliber, not .429". Thus, the only the .30 caliber projectile can enter. The .429" sabot stops against the rear of the barrel.

In articles that I've seen, the project was credited to Reed Knight and John Anderson. However, the cartridge concept is derived from an earlier design by Charles R. (Bob) Olsen. He saw it as the basis for a high velocity revolver cartridge without the need to use a bottlenecked case with its setback problems. He called it the Invicta. The models he showed to the shooting press back in the early/mid-80s were built on Dan Wesson revolvers. I suspect that no one wanted to market it due to the possibility that some idiot would slip a standard cartridge into the cylinder and try to shoot it out of the smaller diameter bore.

Olsen's US Patents can be seen online:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=Pi0uAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=4393782#PPA9,M1

http://www.google.com/patents?id=l9EsAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&dq=4457093#PPA2,M1

So it's a revolver that doesn't need a forcing cone? (at least I don't see one in the patent drawings).

My opinion stands - revolver is too complicated of a system to turn it into something it's not suppose to be. The timing of cylinders has to be impeccable and if it relies on specialized ammo (and top shelf grade revolver) - all that just to do the same (or close) to existing semi-auto systems that don't have the same hereditary problems... What we have is a suggestion that gases will expand in the casing and push the "sabot" up to the barrel - there is no mention of the counter-force of gas expanding in the barrel behind the bullet and pushing at the seal. I haven't seen the system work and there is no 3rd part observation how well the system work (or doesn't). There is were no reliability tests nor were there tests running it against currently fielded suppressed systems.

This reminds me of an episode of "Monster Garage" that required to turn a HotDog cart into a drag racer - it was done but didn't mean it was done better or even to the requirements of a racer... But I'm glad someone can take on engineering challenge of turning a revolver and going backdoor way of fixing a problem (which was already fixed more than a century ago).

[D.E. Watters]

So it's a revolver that doesn't need a forcing cone? (at least I don't see one in the patent drawings).

The forcing cone on such a small bore still wouldn't be wide enough to allow the large sabot to enter. I suspect that the KAC system might be able get away without a forcing cone since they were using spitzer projectiles.


My opinion stands - revolver is too complicated of a system to turn it into something it's not suppose to be. The timing of cylinders has to be impeccable and if it relies on specialized ammo (and top shelf grade revolver) - all that just to do the same (or close) to existing semi-auto systems that don't have the same hereditary problems...

Most standard self-loading rifles won't function with subsonic ammo. Even if it did cycle, the semi-auto is going to have more action noise.


What we have is a suggestion that gases will expand in the casing and push the "sabot" up to the barrel - there is no mention of the counter-force of gas expanding in the barrel behind the bullet and pushing at the seal.

With a small or no forcing cone, there won't be much of the sabot's front surface for the gases to work on, compared to the surface area at the rear of the sabot.


I haven't seen the system work and there is no 3rd part observation how well the system work (or doesn't). There is were no reliability tests nor were there tests running it against currently fielded suppressed systems.


Peter Kokalis wrote that the GP100 conversion showed a 40 decibel reduction in sound signature with the suppressor installed. The Super Redhawk conversion gave a 44 decibel sound reduction.

[D.E. Watters]

Now we can get closer....another ten posts and it will be "reputedly" sponsored by Bofors......

I did some more digging in my library and came up with the February 2001 Small Arms Review. JIW's Charles Cutshaw claims that he first encountered the CBJ MS at the Saab Bofors display at the 2000 NDIA Small Arms Conference. This conference occurred in late August 2000, matching the JIW entry. (Of course, it should be pointed out that the JIW entry may well have been written by Cutshaw.)

[D.E. Watters]

I did some more digging in my library and came up with the February 2001 Small Arms Review. JIW's Charles Cutshaw claims that he first encountered the CBJ MS at the Saab Bofors display at the 2000 NDIA Small Arms Conference. This conference occurred in late August 2000, matching the JIW entry. (Of course, it should be pointed out that the JIW entry may well have been written by Cutshaw.)

In the June 2001 Small Arms Review, there is an article by Robert Bruce on the 2000 NDIA Small Arms Conference. Guess what he saw and photographed? Yes, it was the CBJ MS at the Saab Bofors display.