Anti-tank weapons of Hezbollah

[Snoshi]

Many of the pics are repost

AT-3 Sagger
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-3_01.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-3_02.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-3_03.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-3_04.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-3_06.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-3_08.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-3_13.jpg

AT-4 Spigot
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-4_01.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-4_02.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-4_08.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-4_09.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-4_10.jpg

AT-5 Sprandel
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-5_01.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-5_02.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-5_03.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-5_04.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-5_05.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-5_06.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-5_07.jpg

AT-14 Kornet
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-14_04.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-14_02.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-14_06.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-14_13.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-14_07.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-14_08.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-14_15.jpg

TOW
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/TOW_01.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/TOW_03.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/TOW_04.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/TOW_05.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/TOW_06.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/TOW_07.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/TOW_08.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/TOW_09.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/TOW_10.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/TOW_11.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/TOW_17.jpg

B-10
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/B-10_02.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/B-10_04.jpg

M40A1
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/M40A1_02.jpg

RPG-7
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/RPG-7_01.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/RPG-7_02.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/RPG-7_05.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/RPG-7_10.jpg

RPG-29
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/RPG-29_03.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/RPG-29_05.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/RPG-29_06.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/RPG-29_07.jpg

[MZKT]

Where are the Milan? Accoring to the Reports Hezbollah had european Milan-ATGMs additionally to TOWs and soviet models.

[Snoshi]

Where are the Milan? Accoring to the Reports Hezbollah had european Milan-ATGMs additionally to TOWs and soviet models.

I dont have any pics of them.

[Zeev]

excellent pics.. very interesting..

[Snoshi]

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-14_15.jpg
I still remember Russia denying that its modern ATGM's were being used by Hezbollah and that Syria would never transfer them.


http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-3_13.jpg
Note writing in Serbian. Wonder how they got to Lebanon

[Zeev]

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-3_13.jpg
Note writing in Serbian. Wonder how they got to Lebanon

weapons have no borders, if you can pay it, you can get it..

[Zeev]

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-3_13.jpg

"pt lansirna kutija".. I agree, it seems to be serbo-croatian words..

[Nickchios]

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-14_15.jpg

Mr Assad........ hello!!!!!! Now what?????:oops:


http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-3_13.jpg
Note writing in Serbian. Wonder how they got to Lebanon

May be via DHL Syria branch????:)

Great post, great photos... and more important.... great evidences....

[Paddy51]

Very interesting material. Thanks.

[sosed]

I wonder how Hesbolah get US TOW missiles produced in 2001. I doubted US sell them to Syria or Iran after that year.

[alvarito]

i would like to see russia reaction if israel start selling weapons to chechen terrorists

[tanks_alot]

I wonder how Hesbolah get US TOW missiles produced in 2001. I doubted US sell them to Syria or Iran after that year.

Probably from the Lebanese army which uses the TOW. Iran has also acknowledged providing Hezballah with their own beefed up version of the TOW.


i would like to see russia reaction if israel start selling weapons to chechen terrorists


No you wouldn't, as their reaction would be selling even more advanced weapons to Hezballah.
not to mention the fact that whatever will get to the Chechens will probably make it's way back to our own neighborhood's Islamists, one way or another....

[frenchy]

very interesting.
By the way, will Israel use those weapons against its enemies ? Or they'll finish with explosives or in a museum ?

[Ghelp]

They have alot of anti-tank weaponry.Any more anti-tank weapons they used.Are the captured weapons going to be destroyed or used for testing by Israel.

[alvarito]

i think israel should study them, and find their weaknesses

[Snoshi]

i think israel should study them, and find their weaknesses

And thats what they probably do.

[MZKT]

i would like to see russia reaction if israel start selling weapons to chechen terrorists

Reading skills? The Customer was not Hezbollah but Syria.

And btw there was no reaction from Russia on US-equipment which Saudis transfered to Chechens, nor on Stingers which USA transfered directly to Mudshaheddin.

[Snoshi]

Reading skills? The Customer was not Hezbollah but Syria.

Is there any difference? Russia must have known that weapons like that will end up in the hands of HA.. But i guess money talks for itself.

[wicked_hind]

Is there any difference? Russia must have known that weapons like that will end up in the hands of HA.. But i guess money talks for itself.

As long as they get paid, I don't really think it matters to them where those weapons end up.

[Zeev]

As long as they get paid, I don't really think it matters to them where those weapons end up.

X2.. welcome in the real world...

[Lazarou]

I wonder how Hesbolah get US TOW missiles produced in 2001. I doubted US sell them to Syria or Iran after that year.
The date on the TOW is most likely the expiration date, not the date when they were manufactured. The TOW has a limited lifetime of about 20 years.

[enforcer]

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-3_13.jpg

"pt lansirna kutija".. I agree, it seems to be serbo-croatian words..


Launching Box for AT-3 "Malutka" is ex-Yugoslav product, but rocket on this pics is not.

This is AT-3 from military factory "Krusik"-Valjevo; Serbia-
http://i9.tinypic.com/4bf2lqs.jpg
http://i9.tinypic.com/2w1ujqo.jpg

[Korath]

I think what's more important than the wide range of weapons is the fact that H. has skills to use them and do it effectively.

There is a huge black market, different countries are selling stuff. Recently it was discovered that USA was selling F-14 parts to Iran (indirectly, but still...) I remember an event in 1990s when Israeli soldies were shelled in Lebanon by Israeli mortar rounds... If you have money you can get almost anything. The difficulty is to get qualified personnel. Therefore the question should be not how to stop weapons from getting to H. or any other organization, but how to stop training which, btw., has to be expensive.

[ase290406]

You can't really stop the training, unless you own Syria, Lebanon and Iraq. Anything between Iran and Israel in other words.

I think that the RPG-29 can be used though. I remember that story when it pierced a Challenger 2 in Iraq in the front. The M136,SWAW, Carl Gustav, none can pierce the frontal armor of the Challenger 2. Or most parts on the Mk4 for that matter.

Edit: Took out the SHIPON as it's supposed to have a better pnentration value according to Israeli-weapons.com (800mm vs 750mm)

[IDF-Godzilla]

Best thing would be now to analyze these weapons, study them, discover their weaknesses and develop advanced versions of our own ATGM's by studying these ones.

[INAT]

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-14_15.jpg
I still remember Russia denying that its modern ATGM's were being used by Hezbollah and that Syria would never transfer them.


http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-3_13.jpg
Note writing in Serbian. Wonder how they got to Lebanon

I remember a few months ago I read that weapons from Bosna were sold to American contractors to be sent to Iraq and Afghanistan.Here is a story about it.

"Hundreds of thousands of small arms and light weapons from the Bosnia and Herzegovina's wartime stockpiles together with tens of millions of rounds of ammunition were reportedly shipped – clandestinely and without public oversight – to Iraq by a chain of private brokers and transport contractors under the auspices of the U.S. Department of Defense, DoD, between July 31, 2004, and June 31, 2005," the Amnesty report said, citing EUFOR sources
http://www.antiwar.com/ips/zimonjic.php?articleid=11128

[Annihilator9112]

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-3_13.jpg

"pt lansirna kutija".. I agree, it seems to be serbo-croatian words..


No croats dont write like that. Those are serb words.
edit: INAT whats with all the reposts??

[Kak]

M-m-m-m-m-m-monster post

I'll never get over how freaking big that RPG-29 is. Every inch of it is filled with ownage though.

[INAT]

No croats dont write like that. Those are serb words.

I think he meant they were written in Serbo-Croat.That is what our language was called when Yugoslavia was around.Sorry about the triple post above.

[-Julik- 4.GdKp]

A while ago,i found this video on you tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7s5lnjXR5s


Look at 00:30!!

[Snoshi]

I cant really say what happened there.. Its not even a Merkava but probably a Puma or other engennering vehcile. There is also a chance that it was not even taken in Lebanon..


Also they are talking about Merkava as it some kind of invinicible tank that cannot be penetrated or destroyed.. And they show some footage of tanks? getting hit. The thing that Merkava performed very . Only 5 tanks were compleatly destroyed.

[Sirpad]

I cant really say what happened there.. Its not even a Merkava but probably a Puma or other engennering vehcile. There is also a chance that it was not even taken in Lebanon..

Also they are talking about Merkava as it some kind of invinicible tank that cannot be penetrated or destroyed.. And they show some footage of tanks? getting hit. The thing that Merkava performed very . Only 5 tanks were compleatly destroyed.
very much lebanon, sadly. it's a nagmachon with old 2-man turret, not many of those are still used. and as snoshi said, the tanks did in fact perform very well within the situation as long as the crews were skilled enough - most of the regular service crews had much better tanks but they all lacked the experince of the older troops who's been to lebanon before the 2000 withdrawal.

as morbid as it may sound, a dead crew does'nt always mean dead tanks. other than the 5 tanks destroyed beyond repair, all the other damaged tanks were towed back to israel. after the (surgical) scan for crew remains was complete, they were sent for repair and eventually put back to use.

[Snoshi]

very much lebanon, sadly. it's a nagmachon with old 2-man turret, not many of those are still used. and as snoshi said, the tanks did in fact perform very well within the situation as long as the crews were skilled enough - most of the regular service crews had much better tanks but they all lacked the experince of the older troops who's been to lebanon before the 2000 withdrawal.

as morbid as it may sound, a dead crew does'nt always mean dead tanks. other than the 5 tanks destroyed beyond repair, all the other damaged tanks were towed back to israel. after the (surgical) scan for crew remains was complete, they were sent for repair and eventually put back to use.

Was it carrying ammo inside of it? Because it looks like some explosion happened inside of it.

Also people need to see the difference between damaged, knocked out and destroyed tanks.

[willyang]

I wonder how Hesbolah get US TOW missiles produced in 2001. I doubted US sell them to Syria or Iran after that year.

According to one Chinese magazine report, these are actually Iranian-made copy of TOW missiles. The package was written otherwise to fool the Isaeralis in case it fell into the hands of the enemy.

[willyang]

They have alot of anti-tank weaponry.Any more anti-tank weapons they used.Are the captured weapons going to be destroyed or used for testing by Israel.


It seems the Hezbollah got the best grey-market hardware money can buy in the Middle East.

[Sirpad]

Kornet launcher captured on a house porch in Bint jbeil, later on destroyed because it could not be taken back to israel. credit goes to Bushmaster from fresh.co.il

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7524/kornettn3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Big Lebowski]

Was it carrying ammo inside of it? Because it looks like some explosion happened inside of it.

Also people need to see the difference between damaged, knocked out and destroyed tanks.
I know we have had this discussion before, but if a tank is damaged to the extend where it is unable to fight, or if all the crew is dead and have to be towed back and worked on for months, then it's knocked out.

[JoaMei]

Best thing would be now to analyze these weapons, study them, discover their weaknesses and develop advanced versions of our own ATGM's by studying these ones.

Doesnt make sense at all because the Spike Family is much more advanced than this 1970's Technology.

[perdurabo]

Best thing would be now to analyze these weapons, study them, discover their weaknesses and develop advanced versions of our own ATGM's by studying these ones.
whats to analyze in Malutka? thats 60ties technology...
TOWs where used by Israel long time ago, Fagot and Kornet are also well known ATGMs, they are going to some steel mill not some technology developement agency

[Nickchios]

Kornet launcher captured on a house porch in Bint jbeil, later on destroyed because it could not be taken back to israel. credit goes to Bushmaster from fresh.co.il

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7524/kornettn3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I would like to know if the owner of that house agreed with the placement of the AT weapon......:roll::roll:

[Snoshi]

whats to analyze in Malutka? thats 60ties technology...
TOWs where used by Israel long time ago, Fagot and Kornet are also well known ATGMs, they are going to some steel mill not some technology developement agency

Well.. As far as i know West had no no Kornets to "research" on.. I am not sure if Coalition have any RPG-29's in their possession in Iraq.


I would like to know if the owner of that house agreed with the placement of the AT weapon......

many house owners also kept HA weapons in their houses...

[Nickchios]

many house owners also kept HA weapons in their houses...
.... and then if they took a bomb.. they are claiming: civilian casualties:-(:-(

[Sirpad]

I would like to know if the owner of that house agreed with the placement of the AT weapon......:roll::roll:
the local population of SL had a complex realtionship with HA. most of it was on good terms, since HA supported the locals in many aspects of daily life such as education, welfare, municipal services etc.

as for the usage of houses for arms chaches - a local resident who wished to build or expand a house would usualy apply for HA help. they would, in turn, build the requested structure with few modifications - the house owner got what he asked for, and would'nt ask anything about what happens inside the extra room/basement...

[Nickchios]

the local population of SL had a complex realtionship with HA. most of it was on good terms, since HA supported the locals in many aspects of daily life such as education, welfare, municipal services etc.

as for the usage of houses for arms chaches - a local resident who wished to build or expand a house would usualy apply for HA help. they would, in turn, build the requested structure with few modifications - the house owner got what he asked for, and would'nt ask anything about what happens inside the extra room/basement...

Hmmm, yes i read many reports about the money Iran is giving to HA annually and i am sure that part of them are spending like that.....
HA.... long arm of Iran.

[Zeev]

No croats dont write like that. Those are serb words.
edit: INAT whats with all the reposts??

of course I know that croatians dont use cyrilic caracters... I just use so say "serbocroatian" when I refer to the yugoslav languages..

[Zeev]

I cant really say what happened there.. Its not even a Merkava but probably a Puma or other engennering vehcile. There is also a chance that it was not even taken in Lebanon..


Also they are talking about Merkava as it some kind of invinicible tank that cannot be penetrated or destroyed.. And they show some footage of tanks? getting hit. The thing that Merkava performed very . Only 5 tanks were compleatly destroyed.

I heard about a number of nearly 60 merkava damaged in lebanon .. do you think that this is a reliable information?

[Zeev]

.... and then if they took a bomb.. they are claiming: civilian casualties:-(:-(

south lebannon civilians were also forced by hezbollah to take into their houses their milicians and their weapons, there were a lot of testimonies from lebanese civilians about these practices..

[Ren987]

I heard about a number of nearly 60 merkava damaged in lebanon .. do you think that this is a reliable information?
Yes it is. But damaged does not mean knock out or destroyed. This figure included the tanks hit by ATGM, IEDs, mines regardless their conditions.

[Zeev]

Yes it is. But damaged does not mean knock out or destroyed..

of course I agree with that.. I just wanted to have a confirmation about the 60 tanks hit by hzb.

[Ren987]

The exact figure is 52

52 IDF Merkava tanks were damaged during the war against Hizbullah in Lebanon. 50 tanks were hit by anti-tank missiles and two were damaged by roadside bombs, according to the Ministry of Defense Merkava tank program administration.

18 of the damaged tanks were the most modern Merkava Mark IV. Eight of the tanks were still serviceable, despite being hit.

The Merkava tank program administration said five of the damaged tanks cannot be returned to service, including two Merkava Mark II and one Mark III. The two tanks damaged by roadside bombs were a Mark II and Mark IV, which will not be returned to operational use. The Mark IV tank was equipped with underside armor, which prevented a large number of casualties among its seven-man crew; only the one soldier was killed.

18 of the 23 crewmen killed were in five tanks hit, half of them in clashes in Wadi Salouki. The Merkava tank program administration noted that when counting the tank casualties, it should be taken into account that some of the tanks hit were carrying additional troops in addition to their four-man crews, which increased the potential casualties.
The tanks protected 90% of the soldiers they were carrying.

Published by Globes [online], Israel business news - www.globes.co.il (http://www.globes.co.il/) - on August 30, 2006

[Zeev]

The exact figure is 52

thanks for this article

[khukuri]

Kornet launcher captured on a house porch in Bint jbeil, later on destroyed because it could not be taken back to israel. credit goes to Bushmaster from fresh.co.il

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7524/kornettn3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

anybody can confirm its a kornet?

[Snoshi]

anybody can confirm its a kornet?

I have more pics of Kornet on the first page
http://img.lenta.ru/photo/2006/08/04/mvsv/90.jpg
The pic that Sirpad posted is taken from the back

[Lokos]

Note writing in Serbian. Wonder how they got to Lebanon

Milosevic had numerous allies in the Middle East. Chief amongst these was Iraq...

It is almost certain that the weapons were not produced recently (i.e. in the last ten years).

Lokos

[TheArmenian]

Kornet launcher captured on a house porch in Bint jbeil, later on destroyed because it could not be taken back to israel. credit goes to Bushmaster from fresh.co.il

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7524/kornettn3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Why couldn't it be taken? It is not that heavy or bulky to be carried back by a jeep. Can anyone provide more info?

[TheArmenian]

A while ago,i found this video on you tube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7s5lnjXR5s


Look at 00:30!!

Look at 02:03

Are they firing RPG-29 rockets? or are they recoil-less anti tank guns?

[Zeev]

Why couldn't it be taken? It is not that heavy or bulky to be carried back by a jeep. Can anyone provide more info?

I was asking myself the same question.. why didn't they put it in a truck or an other vehicle?

[Snoshi]

Why couldn't it be taken? It is not that heavy or bulky to be carried back by a jeep. Can anyone provide more info?

****y trapped?

[Zeev]

Milosevic had numerous allies in the Middle East. Chief amongst these was Iraq...

It is almost certain that the weapons were not produced recently (i.e. in the last ten years).

Lokos

maybe also during the 80's? I know that the communist yugoslavia gave weapons to arafat PLO when they were in lebannon.. they also trained some of them in yugoslavia, not far of the bulgarian border, so it is possible that these weapons just turn into hezbollah hands..

[TheOpposition]

The metis and kornet look very diffrent.

this is a Kornet

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7909/kornet2nj5.gif (http://imageshack.us)


This is a Metis2


http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5111/metis2qa7.gif (http://imageshack.us)

The main diffrence is the way they are thier height and the waythe can be transported. the metis as a whole you can carry on your back, the kornet would have to be disassembled.

[TheArmenian]

Nice photo thread Snoshi.

Apart from the MILAN, also missing in the photos is the METIS.

BTW, there is not much to study in those captured missiles and rockets.

AT-3, AT-4, AT-5, TOW are very well known older systems.

There is nothing secret in the KORNET either. It is not a huge advance from the AT-4/AT-5, it just has longer range and better penetration because it is a bigger missile. Anyways, it seems that the IDF did not bring back a KORNET.

Same for the RPG-29, it is just a big rocket . Similar technology to the dual warhead RPG-7, only bigger (that's why it is more lethal).

[Snoshi]

The exact figure is 52


52 armoured vehicles were damaged 46 of them were tanks. 5 tanks were completely destroyed and could not be restored, 2 of them were destroyed by IED(one Merkava 2 and Merkava 4) and other 3 by ATGM's(Merkava 2, Merkava 3 and Merkava 4). Other destroyed vehicles were 2 D9's and 1 Puma.

[TheOpposition]

Nice photo thread Snoshi.

Apart from the MILAN, also missing in the photos is the METIS.

BTW, there is not much to study in those captured missiles and rockets.

AT-3, AT-4, AT-5, TOW are very well known older systems.

There is nothing secret in the KORNET either. It is not a huge advance from the AT-4/AT-5, it just has longer range and better penetration because it is a bigger missile. Anyways, it seems that the IDF did not bring back a KORNET.

Same for the RPG-29, it is just a big rocket . Similar technology to the dual warhead RPG-7, only bigger (that's why it is more lethal).

metis photos are already posted.

[TheArmenian]

metis photos are already posted.

I cannot see a METIS among the captured missiles. Would you please point it out to me?

[tanks_alot]

I cannot see a METIS among the captured missiles. Would you please point it out to me?

All of the pictures in this thread are of captured weapons.

Well, other than the one Sirpad has posted i guess.

[zg18]

maybe also during the 80's? I know that the communist yugoslavia gave weapons to arafat PLO when they were in lebannon.. they also trained some of them in yugoslavia, not far of the bulgarian border, so it is possible that these weapons just turn into hezbollah hands..


PLO fighters were trained in Pančevo near Belgrade,today that training ground is HQ of Serbian Special forces brigade (Specijalna brigada).

Former Yugoslavia had 2.5 billion worth arms exports to third world per year in 80-ies ,mostly Arabic countries.So it`s probably very easy for Hezbollah to have Yugo made weaponary in his arsenal.

[Zeev]

PLO fighters were trained in Pančevo near Belgrade,today that training ground is HQ of Serbian Special forces brigade (Specijalna brigada)..

ok... I just said that because I read it in a book about the 82' lebanon war, and the book seems to be reliable so...

[zg18]

ok... I just said that because I read it in a book about the 82' lebanon war, and the book seems to be reliable so...


I know that PLO were trained in Pančevo,i didn`t heard for base near Bulgarian border but that doesn`t mean that base never existed.

[Lokos]

I had no idea we trained those asshats.

Well, that's just wonderful.

Lokos

[Sirpad]

Why couldn't it be taken? It is not that heavy or bulky to be carried back by a jeep. Can anyone provide more info?
i'll provide that info:
the missiles could'nt be carried away because the day after that house was taken over, the platoon advanced further inside Bint Jbeil. few vehicles entered the town because of the fear of hidden IEDs, and light wheeled vehicles are the last thing IDF would send into the warzone where ATGMs are flying all over the place.

[Sirpad]

There is nothing secret in the KORNET either. It is not a huge advance from the AT-4/AT-5, it just has longer range and better penetration because it is a bigger missile. Anyways, it seems that the IDF did not bring back a KORNET.

Same for the RPG-29, it is just a big rocket . Similar technology to the dual warhead RPG-7, only bigger (that's why it is more lethal).
oh man, you are so wrong...:roll:

[Snoshi]

Anyways, it seems that the IDF did not bring back a KORNET.

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/human_shields_eb.pdf

Various arms and ammunition were seized in the village of Ghandouriyeh:
a. Eight complete kits of advanced Kornet anti-tank missiles (including
heat-seeking devices, the missiles themselves, and shipping
certificates)
Those boxes i posted a pic of were not empty.

[1911-a1]

Hi guys! now im allowed to post again :D
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4536/108017574qk3.jpg
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5210/108017575gt5.jpg

[zg18]

I had no idea we trained those asshats.

Well, that's just wonderful.

Lokos


They were our allies,as Arabic freedom organization and close to Tito`s "Nesvrstani" project which included most Arabic world.We helped Egypt 1967 to recover from Six day war catastrophe.

Although SFRY helped Arabs it wasn`t specialy ati-Jew or anti-Israeli it`s all about politics and interests,some Yugo communist champions were Jews like Edvard Kardelj and Moše Pijade,very high figures in Commie party.

[Lokos]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not thinking Yugo was anti-semitic, I just have no time for the PLO.

Lokos

[TheArmenian]

oh man, you are so wrong...:roll:

Am I ?

Can you please elaborate?

[TheArmenian]

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/human_shields_eb.pdf

Those boxes i posted a pic of were not empty.

Thanks for the link.

Any available pics of the missiles that were in the boxes?

[ase290406]

I think he means that the new weapons aren't just old weapons made bigger. To penetrate newer types of armor, you need new technologies in the penetration arena.

For example - A standard HEAT projectile/missile (Say a PG-7 of the RPG-7)may have trouble with ERA. But with a tandem warhead (Say a PG-7VR) it will have a better chance of penetration. So it's not about making the HEAT bigger but adding new ideas into it. Otherwise even a bigger round won't penetrate a newer type of armor.

[TheArmenian]

I think he means that the new weapons aren't just old weapons made bigger. To penetrate newer types of armor, you need new technologies in the penetration arena.


That is not what I meant.

Compared to previous models, the KORNET has some improvements in guidance, propulsion and warhead technologies. All evolutionary, nothing revolutionary. The fact that it is bigger makes it even more capable.

KORNET received a lot of positive publicity (thanks to the 2006 summer war). True, it proved itself. But it is not the super secret uber-weapon with revolutionary technology. So, as I mentioned earlier, not much there for the Israelis to study and analyze.

The state of the art Russian anti-tank missile is the KHRIZANTEMA. That is something worth analyzing and studying. It is more advanced and capable than the KORNET, and....yes, it is bigger.
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/9691/atgm1mb4.jpg


For example - A standard HEAT projectile/missile (Say a PG-7 of the RPG-7)may have trouble with ERA. But with a tandem warhead (Say a PG-7VR) it will have a better chance of penetration. So it's not about making the HEAT bigger but adding new ideas into it. Otherwise even a bigger round won't penetrate a newer type of armor.

My earlier post:

Similar technology to the dual warhead RPG-7, only bigger (that's why it is more lethal).

We are saying pretty much the same thing.

[VanZorich]

They were our allies,as Arabic freedom organization and close to Tito`s "Nesvrstani" project which included most Arabic world.We helped Egypt 1967 to recover from Six day war catastrophe.

Although SFRY helped Arabs it wasn`t specialy ati-Jew or anti-Israeli it`s all about politics and interests,some Yugo communist champions were Jews like Edvard Kardelj and Moše Pijade,very high figures in Commie party.

Kardelj wasn't Jewish, he was Slovenian. Mosha, on the other hand, was Jewish.

[zg18]

Kardelj wasn't Jewish, he was Slovenian. Mosha, on the other hand, was Jewish.

Kardelj is from Slovenia but he was Jew or had Jewish roots.

[Vaiar]

Compared to previous models, the KORNET has some improvements in guidance, propulsion and warhead technologies. All evolutionary, nothing revolutionary.

Care to explain to us where the difference lies between evolution and revolution? Furthermore, on the grounds of the Kornet being a mere evolution of earlier missiles you seem to dismiss it even though it has shown great capabilities in the hands of a guerilla forces against an armoured foe, including knocking out multiple Merkava 4s. Then you propose a fat, heavy, vehicle mounted, radar-guided "Fulda Gap"-like ATGM system we should instead be all afraid off due it being so "revolutionary". Have you ever thought about what might be more suitable to a guerilla army? Moreover, what threat is more likely to be encountered on the battlefield nowadays and in the near future and, hence, deserves to be "studied" and "analyzed" in order to be countered?

[AN_TPS_63A]

weapons have no borders, if you can pay it, you can get it..


I doub't those wp are provided directly by Serbia..it could be easily sold by some other Ex yugoslav republic.

[Zeev]

I doub't those wp are provided directly by Serbia..it could be easily sold by some other Ex yugoslav republic.

sincerely, to me, this isn't really an important point...

some old AT missiles not more..

[AN_TPS_63A]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not thinking Yugo was anti-semitic, I just have no time for the PLO.

Lokos

I remember that hijackers from "Achile Lauro" ship got the safe passage through Yugoslavia. Carlos was arrested in Belgrade, than secretly released.
What a friendship with worlds most dangerous terrorists..

[Zeev]

I remember that hijackers from "Achile Lauro" ship got the safe passage through Yugoslavia. Carlos was arrested in Belgrade, than secretly released.
What a friendship with worlds most dangerous terrorists..

well.. It was the international policy from the communist nations at this time.. help and friendship with all the "third world liberation movements"

places like the Patrice Lumumba university in Moscow were specialised about that, mostly for the officers formation..

[Smok]

Do you really think, that Hezbollah members are so stupid to leave such evidences? Everyone can make that kind of notes on boxes.

[Snoshi]

Do you really think, that Hezbollah members are so stupid to leave such evidences? Everyone can make that kind of notes on boxes.

lol... Yeah Israel faked all of it... And Kornets came from sowhere else then Syria... rofl And i bet that serial numbers are faked too.. And that Russia admitted that weapons "may" have been transfered from Syria to Hezbullah does not prove anything.
Hezbollah was not really winning the ground war so when they retreated they had to do it light.

[Smok]

I didn't say that Israel has faked it all. All I wan't to say, that it is not wise to absolutely believe in such "evidences". I can make signs like that in 5 minutes.
BTW USA admitted that Saddam HAD WMD, so official admittings are worthless.
These weapons can be from Iran or something.

[Snoshi]

I didn't say that Israel has faked it all. All I wan't to say, that it is not wise to absolutely believe in such "evidences". I can make signs like that in 5 minutes.
BTW USA admitted that Saddam HAD WMD, so official admittings are worthless.
These weapons can be from Iran or something.

Kornets and RGP-29 cannot come from Iran.. Syria have them. I dont see why Israel should fake it...

[Snoshi]

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-14_07.jpg
Look at this pic.. You can see the the small text on them that was zoomed in into in the next picture

[Zeev]

Kornets and RGP-29 cannot come from Iran.. Syria have them. I dont see why Israel should fake it...

X2 anyway Iran and Syria are both israel ennemies, so for us, this have no big difference...

[Moledet]

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/AT-14_07.jpg
Look at this pic.. You can see the the small text on them that was zoomed in into in the next picture
Stop lying...these boxes are filled with candies for children and the IDF soldiers took them from an old woman.

[highdiver_2000]

Stop lying...these boxes are filled with candies for children and the IDF soldiers took them from an old woman.
hahahahah:)

[GiladS]

Lebanon 2006

by Lt. Col David Eshel (retired)

from Tank Magazine December 2006

Merkava Mark IV

The Merkava Mk IV is the very latest version of Merkava (Chariot) and as with earlier models it armour and survivability have been given very high priority. Fully operational since 2004, it has a combat weight of 65 tonnes. Its front-mounted 1,500hp diesel engine is new, with an improved top speed and power-to-weight ratio over the 1,200hp diesel that powered the Mk III. The driver sits to the immediate front of the turret on the left side (he has a camera for improved reverse driving), the turret contains the rest of the crew and the 120mm smoothbore gun (48 rounds carried) and a coax MG, plus an internally mounted 60mm mortar. Additionally there is a roof-mounted MG that can be fired by the commander from under armour. The main gun has a new compressed gas recoil system and a thermal sleeve. The Tank Sight System (TST) provides video coverage of the surrounding terrain day and night, through 360dgrees, via four cameras in hardened cases. The Merkava Mk V is already under development and it is thought to be armed with a 140mm gun.

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/2466/36331647vd3.jpg
IDF infantry and tank on the border during the war (From fresh.co.il)

The Battle of Wadi Saluki

This battle will be remembered as one of the fiercest fights of the second Lebanon War, one in which Merkava IV proved its mettle in its first, but ultimate combat test.

It was during the push to the Litani River - a few hours before the UN-brokered cease-fire went into effect - that a column of Merkava tanks from 401 Armoured Brigade began crossing Wadi Saluki in the face of fierce Hezbullah resistance. The battle order described the canyon like Saluki as the "gateway to the Litani river", an essential objective in the hurried sweep across southern Lebanon placed before the brigade, before the cease-fire went into action- a fateful decision by the political decision-makers, which would have crucial repercussions after the war.

Military experts criticised the "Battle of the Saluki" as a microcosm of all the mistakes that were made during the war in Lebanon. Soldiers waited for a week, like sitting ducks, for orders that were twice received and twice cancelled, reflecting
a total lack of clarity and confidence within the General Staff, and the political echelon directing the war.

Crossing the Saluki meant the troops and tanks had to climb a steep hill while exposed to attack from mountains on every side. Understanding the risk to his tanks, Brig-Gen Guy Zur, commander of Division 162, deployed Nahal Brigade infantrymen on the high ground outside the villages Andouriya and Farun, to provide cover for the armoured column advancing below.

Commanded by Colonel Moti Kidor, 401 Armoured Brigade Merkava tanks had been waiting for the push to the Litani for close to a week. Twice, they had received the word to go, but were immediately ordered to stop, as soon as they started rolling. At last, on August 11, just before 1500 hours, orders came, but made no sense to the brigade staff: 'why push to the Litani hours before the UN was set to approve a cease-fire? However, orders were firm and by 20,00 Hours the tanks began to move. The problem was, that during the passing week Hezbullah fighters were waiting, watching every step that Kidor's forces made. Knowing the ground, the guerilla commanders realised that the only way westward would have to cross the steep wadi slopes, where they had deployed their advanced Russian-made AT- 14 Kornet anti-tank missiles en-masse in excellent firing positions.

Hezbullah had prepared well for this kind of warfare. On 22 November 2005 when Hezbollah attacked the village of al-Ghajar in an attempt to capture IDF soldiers. The then commanding general Udi Adam said in his after action report, that " it was the first time that Hezbollah used its entire tactical arsenal", revealing that one of his Merkava tanks received no less than seven hits from different anti-tank missiles, none of which penetrated its armour and all the crew escaped unhurt. Iranian instructors had taken the al-Ghajar incident very seriousely and reacted by sending antiarmour specialists from Tehran to their training base located in the Lebanese Beka'a valley. Iranian tank experts examined Hezbollah video shots from the action at al-Ghajar, clearly displaying hits on the Merkava tank, carefully studied these displays by looking for "blind" spots in which Merkava could be vulnerable to AT- 14 Kornet and RPG-29V fire, which they wished to introduce in future engagements.

As the tanks started moving downhill into the Wadi, two tanks of the leading company were immediately hit, one of the tank commanders mortally wounded, caught in the sights of scores of Kornet anti-tank missiles with their lethal tandem laser-beam warheads penetrating the advanced armour of the Merkava Mk 4. It was the first engagement this tank had faced. A reserve commander rushed to the rescue with six tanks leading them to climb up sheer slopes to the top of the gorge, an ascent angle few other tanks, than Merkava Mk 4 could navigate. By now all hell was breaking lose from the high ground as hundreds of missiles were pouncing on the advancing tanks, now moving up the far slope. In all. two companies, some 24 tanks, participated in the operation. and 11 were hit by anti-tank missiles.

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8176/92740575mo4.jpg
Evacuation of wounded from the battle

The Hezbullah fighters were firing missile after missile from vantage positions at the
vulnerable points in the armour. Tank commanders were frantically calling for air and artillery support, but because of the large number of Nahal infantrymen present, Northern Command refrained from calling for assistance from artillery or helicopter gunships, fearing to hit friendly forces. The tanks were left to fend for themselves until they reached the top and stormed the Hezbullah anti-tank positions. When this was achieved, the brigade commander making his rounds, found
to his surprise, that in all, only four crewmen were killed, but scores wounded, fortunately most of them suffering minor wounds. Later summing up the battle of Saluki, Colonel Kidor said that it had been "an unqualified triumph of his Merkava Mk 4. Had those tanks been of an earlier generation, not equipped with state-of-the-art technology and active self-protection mechanisms, 50 crewmen might well have perished", the colonel emphasised with satisfaction.

Two rather remarkable incidents happened in the heat of battle and are worth recounting: one Mk 4 tank was hit by a tandem missile which penetrated into the rear compartment, hitting a stored HEAT round setting it on fire, which activated the automatic fire suppression system, but wounding two of the turret crew, who were evacuated and replaced by a reserve crew - the tank then continued to fight. Another tank had its main armament 120mm barrel blown off by a "lucky" shot, but the crew managed to drive it back to the border, where a field ordnance repair team exchanged the barrel and sent the tank back into battle within hours.

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8798/78968662or2.jpg
The tank that recieved the "lucky" shot to its barrel

An overall assessment of Merkava in the second Lebanon War 2006

Four types of Merkava tanks were in action in Lebanon 2006, including Merkava Mk 4, the Merkava Mk 2D (with its distinctive sloped turret), the standard Mk2 (mostly with reserve units), and Merkava Mk3 Baz.

Towards the end of the fighting, Brigadier General Halutzi Rodoi, the chief of IDF Armoured Corps was asked to assess the performance of his tank force and especially the lessons drawn from the fighting against advanced anti-tank missiles fired by Hezbollah on the coveted Merkava. Mk4, which saw its first combat engagement in Lebanon. According to General Rodoi, the Merkava proved to be well protected and designed to minimize the risk even when it was penetrated.

The IDF employed several hundred tanks in combat. According to official reports, about ten percent were hit by various threats. Less than half of the hits penetrated. In over-all assessment, the potential risk to crewmen would have been much higher, if the tank had been of a conventional design. A colonel commanding an armoured brigade which bore the brunt of battle, mentioned in an interview that during the war that hundreds of antitank missiles were fired on his unit, and in total only 18 tanks were seriously damaged. Of those, missiles actually penetrated only five or six vehicles and according to statistics, only two tanks were totally destroyed, however, both by super-heavy IED charges.

The unique Merkava design uses special aims to minimize the risk of spall (flakes coming off the inside of the turret), generated by the shaped charge plasma jet. All Merkava types use fire retardant containers to store ammunition preventing high-lethal secondary explosions. Furthermore, tanks are equipped with rapid fire extinguishing system that eliminates sympathetic detonation of ammunition. As result, only few tanks encountered catastrophic fire hazards after suffering penetrating missile attacks on ammunition, but substantially reducing lethal burn casualties to crew members.

Some of the tanks, especially those outfitted with the LIC urban combat kit are equipped with bottom hull plates to protect against heavy mines and belly charges. Several Merkava tanks and heavy AFVs encountered a number of these charges, some weighing over 150 kg. While heavily armoured vehicles can hardly be expected to survive such an attack, the upgraded vehicle types demonstrated effective protection for the crew, which, in some cases, even managed to survive such attack with only minor injuries. In one instance, a Merkava tank was hit by a belly charge weighing over 150kg of explosives, killing one crew member and wounding the remaining six., (some travelling in the rear compartment). Despite the loss of one crew member, this incident is considered proof of the effective protection of the new Merkava 4. To reduce this threat the heavily armoured D-9 bulldozer was employed to precede the tanks over high-risk tracks in order to cause IEDs to blow up with minimum damage and clear the way for the following tanks.

The IDF Armoured Corps has traditionally invested considerable effort in examining hit after-battle statistics on its tanks, in order to establish new tactics and techniques. The founder of this procedure was Major General Israel Tal, "Father of the Merkava" and one of the leading tank experts of worldwide recognition.

After the 1973 Yom Kippur War General Israel Tal led a development team which took into consideration Israel's unique battlefield characteristics and lessons learned from previous wars. On General Tal's orders a special team of experts examined every single tank hit, while still on the battlefield and on the findings an in-depth investigation was made to develop effective means for crew protection, which formed the basis of the unique Merkava project. A similar investigation team has already recorded all hits on tanks received during the Lebanon crisis and a full report was made available for further detailed assessment team of experts which is already examining these reports in detail, in order to make the necessary amendments without delay, pending the resumption of the conflict, should the presently fragile ceasefire fall apart.

Assessing Hezbollah anti-armour tactics and weapons Hezbollah fighters used the heavier, more capable missiles, including Metis M and AT- 14 Kornet to engage Merkava 4. The Konkurs, Fagot and RPG-29 were mostly used against less protected Merkava 3 and 2 while non-tandem weapons, such as Tow, Fagot and RPG were left to engage other targets, such as AIFV. The least used were AT-3 Sagger and non tandem RPGs, which are considered obsolete, but proved quite lethal against troops seeking cover in buildings.

Overall, almost 90% of the tanks hit were by tandem war-heads. In general, Hezbollah militants prioritized Merkava Mk 4 over Merkava Mk 2 and 3, and in general, targeted tanks over AIFV. At the beginning of the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict, the main Israeli concern was a report that Hezbollah possessed Russian Kornet antitank missiles. However, it also saw the RPG-29 Vampir with a tandem HEAT that had stolen the show. There were even rumours that Hezbollah had received the notorious TBG-29V thermobaric rounds, but these could not be confirmed in action.

An estimated 500 to 600 members of their roughly 4,000-strong Hezbollah fighting strength in South Lebanon were divided into tank-killer teams of 5 or 6, each armed with 5-8 anti-tank missiles, with a further supply stored in small fortified well camouflaged bunkers, built to withstand Israeli air attacks. In another tactic, Hezbollah tank-killer teams would lie in wait in camouflaged bunkers or houses, having planted large IEDs on known approach routes. Once an Israeli tank would detonate one of these, Hezbollah would start lobbing mortar shells onto the scene to prevent rescue teams rushing forward, also firing at outflanking Merkava tanks by targeting the more vulnerable rear zone with RPG. The IDF tried to respond with heavy artillery fire, smoke and advancing special MEDEVAC Merkava tanks, to evacuate casualties. It took some time, until the Merkava crews could change tactics and lower losses from Hezbollah tactics. This included having dismounted infantry advancing over suspected high-risk ground and take out the enemy bunkers with close-in fighting and using heavy armoured D-9 for recovery action under fire.


Inadequate combat training in tank crews and short-sighted funding priorities

During the last six years, in which the bulk of the IDF was constantly engaged in low intensity urban counter terrorist warfare in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, all regular forces, including tank crews were retrained for small unit infantry policing activities, which was mostly dismounted action. This proved extremely painful, when young conscripts, who make up the bulk of the regular IDF were rushed into battle, after hasty retraining. It soon turned out to their commander's dismay, that tank combat in Lebanon, fighting a highly prepared and equipped enemy was a totally new "ballgame" for those youngsters, courageous as they proved themselves in battle. As result, Israeli tankers had to quickly readapt old-new procedures during combat. At the beginning of the war, several tanks lost tracks due to driver's inexperience, especially when travelling in the mountainous and rugged terrain trying to avoid the heavily mined paved roads and tracks.

Moreover, during the Intifada, the armoured corps did not receive top priority among senior defence establishment officials. Short-sighted budget cuts took a heavy toll on annoured units. As result, at the beginning of the war, tanks were lacking basic countermeasures such as instantaneous smoke canisters, laser warning detectors and infrared jammers. While some of these devices were urgently supplied later during the war, the damage was already done. "Money kills" was what several senior Armoured Corps officers blamed authorities after the war, expressing their frustration over the defense establishment's refusal to fund the installation of a rocket defense system on Israeli tanks and claiming that soldiers were paying the price with their lives. The officers were referring, among others, to the Trophy a new and unique, locally developed active protection system that creates a hemispheric protected zone around armoured vehicles such as the Merkava 4 tank.

The Trophy design includes four flat-panel antennas and a search radar mounted on the vehicle. When properly mounted, the combined radar view is a full 360 degrees. When a weapon is fired at the vehicle, the internal computer uses the signal from the incoming weapon as an approach vector. Once the incoming weapon is fired, the computers calculate the optimal time and automatically fire the neutralisers. The response comes from two launchers installed on the vehicle, one on each side. The launchers have a pivoting/rotating ability and thus are able to fire in any direction the computer requires. The launchers fire the neutralizing agents which are usually small metal pellets like shotgun shot.

If those measures would have been available, Merkava tank crews would have fared a much better survival chance against even third-generation weapons thrown at them.

Summing up the performance of Merkava tanks, especially the latest version Merkava Mk 4, most tank crews agree that, in spite of the losses sustained and some major flaws in tactical conduct, the tank proved its mettle in its first high-saturation combat. The overall consensus was that with less well-armored tanks, the toll would have been much higher.

http://www.combat-diaries.co.uk/diary30/lebanon%202006.htm

[IsraDani]

^ Nice read, thanks.

[Korath]

Thanks for posting GiladS. Good read.

[Nickchios]

Mmmm.. one of the best posts i ever read here!!!!
Thanks for sharing..

[500]

That is not what I meant.

Compared to previous models, the KORNET has some improvements in guidance, propulsion and warhead technologies. All evolutionary, nothing revolutionary. The fact that it is bigger makes it even more capable.

KORNET received a lot of positive publicity (thanks to the 2006 summer war). True, it proved itself. But it is not the super secret uber-weapon with revolutionary technology. So, as I mentioned earlier, not much there for the Israelis to study and analyze.

The state of the art Russian anti-tank missile is the KHRIZANTEMA. That is something worth analyzing and studying. It is more advanced and capable than the KORNET, and....yes, it is bigger.
Khrizantema needs a radar and vehicle. So it can be easily detected from the air, unlike the Kornet which is just little tripod, that can be hided in every hole. Plus Khrizantema is much much more expensive. And despite being much heavier and expesnsive Khrizantema has same warhead with Kornet.

[TheArmenian]

Khrizantema needs a radar and vehicle. So it can be easily detected from the air, unlike the Kornet which is just little tripod, that can be hided in every hole. Plus Khrizantema is much much more expensive. And despite being much heavier and expesnsive Khrizantema has same warhead with Kornet.



Konet is subsonic, Khrizantema is supersonic and more difficult to stop by modern anti-antitank missile devices like Trophy, Arena, Shtora etc.

Kornet has one guidance mode , Khrizantema has two.

Do I need to continue?...Its like apples and oranges...

[flanker7]

You difference, if I may, is a misunderstanding.
500 sees better as greater penetration, and Armenian refers to the geater picture :-)

[TheArmenian]

Thank you GiladS for the post. Excellent information.

Interesting to note that the same info/data utilized to bash the Merkava can also be used to loud it.

Personaly I think that the Merkava is great machine.

Curious about 140mm gun on the V model. I believe the 120mmm is enough for any present or future armoured targets. But the larger caliber will give extra punch in bombardment roles.

[Moledet]

There are some new pictures from Hevre:
http://bh.hevre.co.il/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=1&topic_id=2312082

A van that was modified to fire and carry TOW missiles, it was found by the soldiers and confiscated after they arrested two Hizballah members:
http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_1563212792_0.JPG

http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_158419087_2.JPG

http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_159422168_3.JPG

http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_1512124474_004.JPG

http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_17191014456_12.JPG

http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_1718030083_17.JPG

Bipod that was removed from the vehicle:
http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_17205230495_%E8%E0%E5%202.jpg

TOW missiles removed from the vehicle:
http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_17223913365_10.JPG
http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_172414179_11.JPG

http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_1516206284_7.JPG

http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_15173012909_9.JPG

The usual RPG7:
http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_1624124985_10.JPG

RPG29:
http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_16274324585_13.JPG
http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_171558147_16.JPG
http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_1716010748_14.JPG

[Nickchios]

RPG 29 is so big for a portable AT... Weight???

[Snoshi]

And if IAF strikes then van then we will hear that it was full of children

[IDF_TANKER]

There are some new pictures from Hevre:
http://bh.hevre.co.il/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=1&topic_id=2312082

A van that was modified to fire and carry TOW missiles, it was found by the soldiers and confiscated after they arrested two Hizballah members:


http://bh.hevre.co.il/upload1107/20071113_1512124474_004.JPG




HAHAHAHA... rofl they must be Golani.

[Sirpad]

Am I ?

Can you please elaborate?
sory, any answer that would elaborate won't stand OPSEC clearance. i'll just say the paragraph i reffered to had more than one mistake...

[LazyDude]

And if IAF strikes then van then we will hear that it was full of children

that could be true but, exaggeration may play a part, but

look i certainly don't think it would be appropriate to start posting photos of civilian casualties

air strikes on infrastructure?

at least one can't deny that they do not expect civilian casualties

:roll:

i just ask that we pay respect to ppl that did not want to get involved, Israeli and Lebanese, regardless of the bigger political picture they may be constrained to..

[Nickchios]

What is written on the van?.... any translation???

[afreu]

And if IAF strikes then van then we will hear that it was full of children



yeah war is so unfair

[IDF_TANKER]

What is written on the van?.... any translation???
In order of appearance on the van:

"Messayat" (type of infantry company - have no idea how to translate this)

Shlomi
Plumbing services 24[hours a day]


Golani are known for their Israeli version of "redneckness"...:)

[Kaplanr]

In order of appearance on the van:

"Messayat" (type of infantry company - have no idea how to translate this)

Shlomi
Plumbing services 24[hours a day]


Golani are known for their Israeli version of "redneckness"...:)

The other side had more of the same with "service to all corners of the country" at the bottom.

[500]

Konet is subsonic, Khrizantema is supersonic and more difficult to stop by modern anti-antitank missile devices like Trophy, Arena, Shtora etc.
But it also means bigger minimal distance of fire. Which is especially critical in mountaneous area.


Kornet has one guidance mode , Khrizantema has two.
But it costs and weights as 10 Kornets.

[Snoshi]

Some more RPG-29 pics
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/RPG-29_08.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/RPG-29_09.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/RPG-29_10.jpg
http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/RPG-29_11.jpg

[exT70]

Some more RPG-29 pics

How difficult is it to fire the RPG29 compared to the RPG-7.
Accuracy?
Moving targets?

[Constantin]

And what can we notice on this picture?

Some more RPG-29 pics

http://www.waronline.org/IDF/Articles/2nd-lebanon-hezbollah-atw/RPG-29_09.jpg



http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1976/rpg2909ze5.jpg
OMG!!!!! Yes, it is pepsi!!! Terrorists drink this sh*t too!!!
:grin:

[Kaplanr]

And that they have Israeli ammo boxes.

[Constantin]

And that they have Israeli ammo boxes.
People often forget a simple precept: " do not trade on a battlefield and will not be won by the enemies. "

[~Berdan]

And that they have Israeli ammo boxes.

Actually,most probably that's the room where Israeli soldiers stored all their shyte,including their ammo.So I'll guess and say the ammo isn't of Hizbollah(and chances that Hizbollah is using Israeli intermediate cartridge are pretty far fetched,they have much better sources to get it).
And maybe the "Bebzi" is from the same source as well..:)