French parliament adopts DNA bill

[LaoSexMachine]

French parliament adopts DNA bill
France's parliament has passed a new bill that introduces tighter curbs on foreigners hoping to join relatives in France - including possible DNA tests. The controversial bill was passed in both the country's National Assembly and in the Senate.
Supporters say it will speed up the process for genuine applicants and cite similar laws in other European nations.
Critics have attacked the law as racist and questioned the use of genetics as a basis for being allowed into France.
The bill passed by 282 votes to 235 in the lower National Assembly and by 185 votes to 136 in the upper Senate.
It offers prospective migrants DNA tests to prove their link to relatives already living in France.
It also requires hopeful incomers to take a language test and show they are familiar with French values.
Relatives of prospective immigrants living in France must show they have adequate income to support the newcomer.
Court challenge
The bill has been hugely controversial, prompting thousands of people to take part in street protests across the country last weekend.
The plan to offer DNA testing to would-be migrants has been the most controversial element of the new law, drawing criticism from civil rights groups and several African leaders.
Immigration Minister Brice Hortefeux dismissed the fears, saying 12 other European countries - including Denmark and the Netherlands - already had similar DNA testing procedures.
French opponents of the tests say they are reminiscent of the country's policies under Nazi occupation, which discriminated against the Jews.
The bill's proposals for DNA testing have already been diluted in response to some of the criticism.
Under the modified version passed by parliament, DNA tests will only be used in cases where children are applying to join mothers in France.

The tests will be voluntary rather than mandatory and will be paid for by the French government rather than by the migrant.
French test
Opponents of the bill say genetic testing is nonetheless likely to be regarded as mandatory for immigrants from certain poorer countries.
Civil rights groups warn that the DNA tests offered to prospective immigrants may effectively equate them with criminals, whose genetic records are already kept on police databases.
The opposition Socialists say human rights principles, not genetics, should determine who can get visas, and vowed to challenge the measure in the Constitutional Court.
Socialist deputy Arnaud Montebourg said: "This law violates the fundamental principles of the republic which do not define family and affiliation by biology."
Communist lawmaker Patrick Braouezec said the law was "institutionalising xenophobia".

An opinion poll in the daily Le Parisien showed 49% supported the bill and 43% were opposed.






Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/7059186.stm

wow!!!!!!! Pinche loco!

[Chimera]

Very sad day.

[Bitogno]

Very sad day.
+1 indeed....

[Kilgor]

I guess some in France have had enough of car torching and civil disorder, good on them. Tough times call for tough solutions.,

[kosse]

Good for the french. I hope EU as whole takes similar steps in the future. Then there's internal problems..a good start would be to somehow block gypsies and bums from eastern Europe coming to Scandinavia to commit crimes, beg and live off the normal population. I find it rather disgusting to have them beg around the cities but I'm definitely not going to start paying for their living here.

[Zeev]

good news.. especially for the french people, I hope that they are aware about that and that they don't listen (and believe) too much their actors/singers/writers and their propaganda against this bill

[LRPV]

Given the DNA test is voluntary, it is a storm in a proverbial tea-cup.

[Benhurmarcel]

This is so sad, thank you sarko. brrrr...

[LordTyphus]

Well done! But still not severe enough.

[LordTyphus]

This is so sad, thank you sarko. brrrr...

What are you talking about? Are you a muslim by any chance?
:bash:

[Sharp]

I guess some in France have had enough of car torching and civil disorder, good on them. Tough times call for tough solutions.,

This have nothing to do with riots and car torching, keep your s.h.i.t for yourself.

Btw good news. Not still enough however. Juste une étape en avant dans ce qu'il reste tant à faire.
It will be like a pain in the ass for some peoples in France but the other part will be happy to accept it.

[Kilgor]

reading also helps

"Immigration Minister Brice Hortefeux dismissed the fears, saying 12 other European countries - including Denmark and the Netherlands - already had similar DNA testing procedures."

[LordTyphus]

This have nothing to do with riots and car torching, keep your s.h.i.t for yourself.

Btw good news. Not still enough tough. Juste une étape en avant dans ce qu'il reste tant à faire.
It will be like a pain in the ass for some peoples in France but the other part will be happy to accept it.

Damn right. I'm with you on this, mate. This is not about racism but the preservation of French culture in all its facets (that include secularism and Catholicism) and the French way of life.

[Benhurmarcel]

What are you talking about? Are you a muslim by any chance?
:bash:

What's this stupid racist question ? so if I am against this abomination I am inevitably muslim ?

[LordTyphus]

What's this stupid racist question ? so if I am against this abomination I am inevitably muslim ?

You must have a racist mind to find racism everywhere. Islam is a religion not a race.

If you are not a muslim, what are you? A socialist, perhaps. You're now under the spotlight. One must understand the defect in you first to understand why you've become so misguided in your ideology; and making yourself an unwitting agent of the alien entity that has now taken roots in our land.

[AROUETLJ]

Damn right. I'm with you on this, mate. This is not about racism but the preservation of French culture in all its facets (that include secularism and Catholicism) and the French way of life.

What the **** are you on about? It's about catching the 60 to 80%, yes, that's SIXTY TO EIGHTY PERCENT of fraudulent "family reunion" requests.

[Lt-Col A. Tack]

What the **** are you on about? It's about catching the 60 to 80%, yes, that's SIXTY TO EIGHTY PERCENT of fraudulent "family reunion" requests.

Finally! An intelligent response. Thanks.

I think the supporters of this measure seem to have more objective reasons for their position.

[Chimera]

What the **** are you on about? It's about catching the 60 to 80%, yes, that's SIXTY TO EIGHTY PERCENT of fraudulent "family reunion" requests.

Although i find the main idea quite interesting (decreasing illigal immigartion flows), DNA doesn't mean anything about you being part of a family or not. A family is NOT only about consanguinity. Its wrong, its 100 times wrong to say that, and it will always be wrong to claim such a thing.

[Sharp]

no more foreigners. help the ones that are already in our country and then let's ask the french peoples in ten years if he wants to open his country to the peoples around world.

[gilgoul]

Although i find the main idea quite interesting (decreasing illigal immigartion flows), DNA doesn't mean anything about you being part of a family or not. A family is NOT only about consanguinity. Its wrong, its 100 times wrong to say that, and it will always be wrong to claim such a thing.

This is true, but not relevant in the case of fraudulent family reunion demands.
I know of many people who came to France clearly abusing lenient immigration laws, and because of these many abuses, many valuable people find it now almost impossible to establish themselves there.
Beside, from what I could read over the internet, the opposition to the "fascist DNA laws" once again were the noisy rambling of a few lefties and other "anti-racist" (for whatever it means) movements, nothing grass roots.
So yes, there should be a possibility of appeal for families who don't meet all the genetic criteria, but first of all, I hope France will try to resolve the problems at hand, use a good karsher on some neighborhoods, and prepare for a better integration of whoever could be integrable, while encouraging a return "home" for those who can't fit in, and this includes elements of absolutely all the minorities in France.

[Bitogno]

no more foreigners. help the ones that are already in our country and then let's ask the french peoples in ten years if he wants to open his country to the peoples around world.
When they will have to do the cleaning, ruin their back working in house construction or in crop field they will say yes we want people to come to do the work we don't want.

[Guerrier_Franc]

France is dead

[Bitogno]

What the **** are you on about? It's about catching the 60 to 80%, yes, that's SIXTY TO EIGHTY PERCENT of fraudulent "family reunion" requests.
Laurent Wauquiez French government speaker said on french TV channel LCI that the fraud was roughly 30%.

[muck]

Good for the french. I hope EU as whole takes similar steps in the future. Then there's internal problems..a good start would be to somehow block gypsies and bums from eastern Europe coming to Scandinavia to commit crimes, beg and live off the normal population. I find it rather disgusting to have them beg around the cities but I'm definitely not going to start paying for their living here.

Quoted for truth. A state has the legitimate right to avert abuse of the freedoms, rights, privileges and subsidies it grants to it's citizens.

[kosse]

Quoted for truth. A state has the legitimate right to avert abuse of the freedoms, rights, privileges and subsidies it grants to it's citizens.
And not just right - an obligation to its citizens to do so. If the state doesn't serve the interests of its citizens, what or who does it serve..

If politicians would just remember this after they get elected.

[Martel]

We have been called "fascists" and "vichysts" by the NY-Times, quite funny ... Many countries do already use the DNA tests, off course it's not a reason to justify these tests but it's a raison to not being called "fascists" ...

[Scourge]

We have been called "fascists" and "vichysts" by the NY-Times, quite funny ... Many countries do already use the DNA tests, off course it's not a reason to justify these tests but it's a raison to not being called "fascists" ...

Yes, that is quite funny given for a lot of Americans think European parties are liberal/communist!

[AROUETLJ]

Although i find the main idea quite interesting (decreasing illigal immigartion flows), DNA doesn't mean anything about you being part of a family or not. A family is NOT only about consanguinity. Its wrong, its 100 times wrong to say that, and it will always be wrong to claim such a thing.

No no, look. Someone claims to be someone else's husband/wife. Fine. We cannot test that. But someone claims to be someone else's father/mother/brother/sister. Then yes, we have a way of detecting fraudulent applications at least in this case.

[Sharp]

When they will have to do the cleaning, ruin their back working in house construction or in crop field they will say yes we want people to come to do the work we don't want.

I don't see what is wrong in your examples : peoples in France will then have to learn how to clean their house themself ! what a great idea. a good idea for these french crying against the expansive prices.

p-)

i don't give a f.u.c.k to what the foreigners are doing in their life and how they work to gain money. what i want is to see an only people in my streets, and not 2 or 3, stop to the communities. i have more than enough to see peoples speaking another language than mine, french.
they want to live here, they want to get a job, they want a receive money or health care from our government, fine. then they will have to show us how integrated they are.
damn, i'm not paying taxes to see them go in the pockets of peoples that aren't speaking a damn word of french.

im just boring to always have to explain the same arguments against the same peoples that are always crying for a thing or another. you are living in the past while we are living in the actual france that is going right in the wall if nobody's doing nothing.

[Chimera]

No no, look. Someone claims to be someone else's husband/wife. Fine. We cannot test that. But someone claims to be someone else's father/mother/brother/sister. Then yes, we have a way of detecting fraudulent applications at least in this case.

I was not thinking of husband/wife. I was thinking of adopted children.

[AROUETLJ]

I was not thinking of husband/wife. I was thinking of adopted children.

So you're thinking of the exception, not the norm. I see this no differently than taking fingerprints at a crime scene. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty, but what's wrong with increasing our chances of rooting out the guilty ones? Hell, I came to France with a regular passport, and stacks of documents proving my identity, my ability to maintain myself financially, my clean police record, the whole lot (and I was still given **** by dozens of landlords). Why should anyone have it easier?

[roland]

No no, look. Someone claims to be someone else's husband/wife. Fine. We cannot test that. But someone claims to be someone else's father/mother/brother/sister. Then yes, we have a way of detecting fraudulent applications at least in this case.

Even that not. Else probably a good percentage of our kings wouldn't have been king since they weren't all legitimate.

brother/sister is technically blood but in reality it's a question of sentiments and loyalty.

The fact that the DNA test concern only mother make it acceptable now imo.

I'm with those in this thread that are agaisnt immigration for a while, the time to fully assimilate the immigrant's sons and make good rational and honest french of them.

[Bitogno]

I don't see what is wrong in your examples : peoples in France will then have to learn how to clean their house themself ! what a great idea. a good idea for these french crying against the expansive prices.

p-)

i don't give a f.u.c.k to what the foreigners are doing in their life and how they work to gain money. what i want is to see an only people in my streets, and not 2 or 3, stop to the communities. i have more than enough to see peoples speaking another language than mine, french.
they want to live here, they want to get a job, they want a receive money or health care from our government, fine. then they will have to show us how integrated they are.
damn, i'm not paying taxes to see them go in the pockets of peoples that aren't speaking a damn word of french.

im just boring to always have to explain the same arguments against the same peoples that are always crying for a thing or another. you are living in the past while we are living in the actual france that is going right in the wall if nobody's doing nothing.
Fistly I was just stating that currently those illegal immgrants are working in jobs that white speaking French don't want to do such as garbage men ( cleaning ).
Secondly most of the immigration comes from french speaking former colonies.
And to finish immigrants and French would be better integrated if when they send their resume to a firm they are not rejected because of name. And don't tell me that's because there's nothing on their resume, I now enough engineers with foreign name to know what I am talking about.

[Nansouty]

Very sad day.
x3. As we call them here, une loi scélérate :-(

[roland]

Fistly I was just stating that currently those illegal immgrants are working in jobs that white speaking French don't want to do such as garbage men ( cleaning ).


because those french have the choice to survive without working instead of do manual but honorable work. remove them this choice and they'll have the choice between starving or working. they'll chose to work of course and even would be glad of that.
then they'll pay some taxes instead of having subsidies, there company would have less unempoyment charges and there would be more work available for everybody in the end. cqfd



And to finish immigrants and French would be better integrated if when they send their resume to a firm they are not rejected because of name.


that's true but that's not because the french are inherently racist, it's because we have entered in a vicious circle: the people with foreign name often come from sh:tty suburb with sh:tty schools. They, way too often, weren't taught how to speak properly and the good manners when good education shouldn't be an option in the Republican school.
So statistically it's more risky to hire one with foreign origines, no need to deny it. Why would I hire one that if I had to fire him because say he isn't honest, would come with his friends and break my head when I have plenty of choice ? Now those coming from those suburbs often have (still statistically) some advantages, like the will to fight and make there way on life while others coming from rich suburb had it too easy.
That's a balance between advantage and risk and apparently a lot of companies have balanced things the wrong way.
To make it worse, it's very difficult to fire a bad employee so it's difficult for a boss to give a young his chance.
No need to call racism a reaction that is, unfortunatelly, often rational specially when there is plenty of choice.
That's this vicious circle that need absolutelly to be broken, that's why we have to close immigration doors the time we fix our mess.
The immigrant's sons are victim of the general environment like bad school system, the fact that the meritant aren't honored and the troublemakers aren't punished, to make it short: the may 68 bullsh:t.

comme dit la chanson: "deux bras courageux et sa rude jeunesse, comme unique richesse"

[Ddavid]

I can't wait until they reopen Drancy

[Atlantic Friend]

I can't wait until they reopen Drancy

Indeed, passing a bill which has a provision for voluntary DNA tests is SO akin to reopening a concentration camp... :roll:

Nice way of showing respect to those who were in camps, BTW.

[Zeev]

I can't wait until they reopen Drancy

please don't disrespect the victims of nazism with this kind of stupid and indescent comparaisons.... :bash:

[Martel]

I can't wait until they reopen Drancy
That was stupid.

[Bitogno]

because those french have the choice to survive without working instead of do manual but honorable work. remove them this choice and they'll have the choice between starving or working. they'll chose to work of course and even would be glad of that.
then they'll pay some taxes instead of having subsidies, there company would have less unempoyment charges and there would be more work available for everybody in the end. cqfd

I was about to say I agree but in fact I am not so sure. It will surely lead some people to work. But if you have a look at UK or USA the people working in hard jobs are immigrants and mostly illegal ones.



that's true but that's not because the french are inherently racist, it's because we have entered in a vicious circle: the people with foreign name often come from sh:tty suburb with sh:tty schools. They, way too often, weren't taught how to speak properly and the good manners when good education shouldn't be an option in the Republican school.
So statistically it's more risky to hire one with foreign origines, no need to deny it. Why would I hire one that if I had to fire him because say he isn't honest, would come with his friends and break my head when I have plenty of choice ? Now those coming from those suburbs often have (still statistically) some advantages, like the will to fight and make there way on life while others coming from rich suburb had it too easy.
That's a balance between advantage and risk and apparently a lot of companies have balanced things the wrong way.
To make it worse, it's very difficult to fire a bad employee so it's difficult for a boss to give a young his chance.
No need to call racism a reaction that is, unfortunatelly, often rational specially when there is plenty of choice.
That's this vicious circle that need absolutelly to be broken, that's why we have to close immigration doors the time we fix our mess.
The immigrant's sons are victim of the general environment like bad school system, the fact that the meritant aren't honored and the troublemakers aren't punished, to make it short: the may 68 bullsh:t.

comme dit la chanson: "deux bras courageux et sa rude jeunesse, comme unique richesse"

I partly agree. I think it is an excuse. I saw once on la 5 a test they did in an emission. They hire actors to play people looking for jobs ( sale representative ). There was a 30 years old white man that serves as reference. With him there was a black man from guadeloupe ( doing some french boxe ), a fat man, an old man, two disabled persons (one with a wheelchair and one with a problem at the arm ) and an arab girl. They worked their play to behave like people with diploma. They send about 400 resume. The only two to be well accepted were the reference and the guadeloupean. The worst thing was the one with the problem at the arm, when people discover his problem ( and not once ) they started saying that in fact the position was filled. The girl once found place : it was in mobile shop where all the sales rep. were black and so she was less black than the other.
This long answer just to say that I think that french firm try to exclude, not only on color, all the people that doesn't correspond to the reference.