US-Mexico Relations

[Dragunov]

Mexico's drug-control initiative reflects more trust in U.S.


By Chris Hawley, USA TODAY
MEXICO CITY — When Mexico's foreign minister laid out her proposal for a U.S.-Mexican military and police alliance against drug lords last spring, veteran U.S. diplomats in the room realized it was a break from the past.
"We all immediately grasped the historic nature of the moment," said U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Thomas Shannon, the State Department's point man for Latin America. "It represented a dramatic departure in our bilateral relationship."


Experts say the $1.4 billion "Mérida Initiative," made public last week, is a major change for Mexico, which has historically been suspicious of U.S. meddling in its affairs. U.S. officials hope it could open the door to more cooperation on immigration, terrorism and other issues.

Five months after Mexican Foreign Minister Patricia Espinosa first outlined the plan in a meeting with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in Washington, the first $500 million of aid is being debated by Congress. It would include money for surveillance aircraft, police training, high-tech communications gear and weapons.


Though the money would be used to help modernize Mexico's crime-fighting abilities, some left-leaning Mexican politicians say the pact would give U.S. agents access to state secrets and erode Mexican sovereignty. The United States "wants to make our country submit to it, in order to eventually get our oil and natural resources," Andrés Manuel López Obrador, the 2006 presidential candidate of the Democratic Revolutionary Party, told supporters Friday.

FIND MORE STORIES IN: Congress | United States | United States | Mexico | Mexican | Mexico City | Latin America | President Vicente Fox | Shannon
President Felipe Calderón's government has responded by saying the aid would be in equipment and training — and that Mexico would not be flooded by U.S. agents.

"There is no need to have (U.S.) advisers, nor troops, nor civilians, nor soldiers dressed like civilians," Mexico's assistant attorney general for international affairs, José Luis Santiago Vasconcelos, said in a radio interview.

There has been little public opposition to the plan, reflecting a change in how Mexicans view the United States, analysts said.

"Society in general wants security. It wants institutions that are more committed to peace and order," said Antonio López Ugalde, a law professor at Ibero-American University in Mexico City. "Being backed by a country like the United States in this fight against crime is appealing to people."

The Mexican government's distrust of the United States dates to the 1846-48 Mexican-American War, when Mexico lost half of its territory to its northern neighbor.

The Mexican military has long refused most U.S. aid. It won't participate in joint exercises with U.S. forces or allow U.S. bases on its soil. For decades, it sent aircraft mechanics and other technical personnel to the USA for training rather than allow U.S. military trainers to work in Mexico.

That began to change under President Vicente Fox, who studied in the USA and whose grandfather was American. During Fox's 2000-06 term, U.S. military and police aid to Mexico nearly tripled from $15.7 million in 2000 to $45.8 million in 2006, according to the Center for International Policy, a Washington think tank.

Fox also extradited more alleged drug smugglers to the United States for trial, handing over a record 63 suspects in 2006.

In 2003, Mexico began permitting U.S. military trainers to give classes in Mexico City and expanded the training from purely technical subjects to counterterrorism and intelligence. Some students were also trained at Fort Huachuca in Arizona.

Calderón has taken the anti-drug fight further by sending troops into violence-plagued Tijuana, Nuevo Laredo and Michoacán state. He has handed over to the United States key drug suspects, including the alleged leader of the Gulf Cartel.

Calderón first suggested a joint drug-control strategy at a March summit with President Bush in Mexico. It wasn't until Espinosa proposed a dollar figure on May 22 that U.S. officials learned how ambitious Calderón's plan was, Shannon said.

At $500 million, the initial U.S. aid package is equivalent to more than half of the Mexican Justice Department's 2007 budget of $846 million.

U.S. officials hope the aid, which must be approved by Congress, will help Mexico patrol its southern border better, cutting the number of Central American migrants who reach the USA, Shannon said.

"Ultimately the kinds of organized crime networks that move drugs and weapons also move people," he said.

Though the Bush administration has stressed that U.S. personnel will not join Mexican police on missions, Shannon said the two countries are still discussing maritime security agreements that might allow better anti-drug coordination.

He said the surveillance planes the United States will provide to Mexico are the same model that the Coast Guard flies, raising the possibility of joint anti-drug missions in the future.

Hawley is Latin America correspondent for USA TODAY and The Arizona Republic

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-10-29-mexico-drugcontrol_N.htm?csp=34


It would be great to see US and MX troops in joint exercises.


BTW. Please stick to the topic.

[bryanleu2002]

Well Dragunov, How about this,,, lets move the white house and congress, and the pentagon to Mexico city, We (you) can run the US from there!

Problem solved..(sarcasim) sometimes i think its there already!


Abstract : By the mid 1990s drug trafficking from Mexico to the United States was exacting a high political, economic and societal toll on both countries and severely straining diplomatic ties. U.S. and Mexican officials crafted the US/Mexico Ei-National Drug Strategy in 1997 to fight this debilitating menace together. Strategy initiatives proved successful in dismantling trafficking cartels, eradicating substantial tracts of illicit crops, and interdicting large quantities of processed drugs. The Strategy's emphasis on transparency and accountability also served, if inadvertently, to bolster Mexico's trek to full democracy - an equally important and mutually reinforcing U.S. foreign policy goal. The military forces of both nations were among the Strategy's initial supporting institutions. In spite of their key role in individually countering the drug threat in their respective countries, however, U.S. - Mexico military cooperation proved contentious and transitory. This thesis argues that military cooperation is worth reviving to promote U.S. policy goals in fighting drugs and nudging Mexico's military away from its authoritarian past and towards its proper role in a democratic society. The thesis further argues that the National Guard is the most appropriate U.S. military entity for this mission, and suggests a rationale and basic framework to encourage and guide such cooperation.

-NAVAL POSTGRADUATE SCHOOL MONTEREY CA -2003


source- http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA417524

[Aztec Eagle]

This is un exaptable,Mexico should inmediatly invade the U.S.,oh wait we allready did that,never mind....:roll:


No kidding a side i hope the best for our mutual fight against the drug war.

[AZRON]

No kidding a side i hope the best for our mutual fight against the drug war.

I agree with you.

I'm a fan of Calderon .

[LineDoggie]

It would be nice for more cooperation from both sides, but I dont see it happening on the scale envisioned.

Further the Illegal Immigrant problem is a higher priority, as a National Security issue.

[aj-0311]

It would be nice for more cooperation from both sides, but I dont see it happening on the scale envisioned.

Further the Illegal Immigrant problem is a higher priority, as a National Security issue.

True, as long as the border remains unsecure and wide open there will be no halt to the drug traffic.

[Laworkerbee]

I'm a fan of Calderon .

Same here, thank God Fox is gone.


True, as long as the border remains unsecure and wide open there will be no halt to the drug traffic.

The same can be said of weapons crossing into Mexico from the United States as well.

[AZRON]

It would be nice for more cooperation from both sides, but I dont see it happening on the scale envisioned.

Further the Illegal Immigrant problem is a higher priority, as a National Security issue.

The two basically go hand in hand. When you secure your home it's againist all not just rapists or thieves or kidnapers selectively , but all.
Same applies to most crossings, drug mules tonight , illegals and coyotes tomorrow night .

If I'm a coyote for hire I'll take anybodys money to guide you across the border. Drug or illegal entry it's all green to them. Some illegals pay their own way by muling drugs on the trip.

[aj-0311]

Either way, the border is wide open and undefended. We can throw all the "feel good" money into the wastebasket we want and yell all the tough talk from the soapbox but until the border is secured, WITH FORCE, nothing will change.

[Aztec Eagle]

Either way, the border is wide open and undefended. We can throw all the "feel good" money into the wastebasket we want and yell all the tough talk from the soapbox but until the border is secured, WITH FORCE, nothing will change.

Do you know the border???

Do you really know what your talking about?

Because from my window right now i can see 2 black hawcks one heading west along the border the other east bound plus i see a couple of fences,its seems pretty secure to me...

Most of the drugs are cross thru the entrie ports to the U.S.

[AZRON]

Do you know the border???

Do you really know what your talking about?

Because from my window right now i can see 2 black hawcks one heading west along the border the other east bound plus i see a couple of fences,its seems pretty secure to me...

Most of the drugs are cross thru the entrie ports to the U.S.

From your point of view how does one tell how secure the border is ?

Price of drugs ?
The going rate to hire a Coyote ?
What are 3-4-5 good indicators ?

[Aztec Eagle]

From your point of view how does one tell how secure the border is ?

Price of drugs ?
The going rate to hire a Coyote ?
What are 3-4-5 good indicators ?

Are you serious? is that the response of an mature thinking adult? my questions were valid and reasonable,are you familiar with the border in order to make such claims...

I have no idea whats the price of drugs in the street or of a Coyote.

First because i know no one that whants to cross illegaly to the U.S. and second because i dont use drugs of any kind,wen we cross the border me and my family we do it legally to spend dollars bought with pesos.

Maybe you would be more familiar with the price of drugs since they are sold in the U.S. more then here ,and it seems that you have no idea how we live in the border.
anyway i dont take it personal your just a victim of propaganda,maybe you even watch FOX news.

[aj-0311]

Do you know the border???

Do you really know what your talking about?

Because from my window right now i can see 2 black hawcks one heading west along the border the other east bound plus i see a couple of fences,
its seems pretty secure to me...

Most of the drugs are cross thru the entrie ports to the U.S.

That would explain the human waves coming across on a daily basis.:roll:

[jklv]

Are you serious? is that the response of an mature thinking adult? my questions were valid and reasonable,are you familiar with the border in order to make such claims...

I have no idea whats the price of drugs in the street or of a Coyote.

First because i know no one that whants to cross illegaly to the U.S. and second because i dont use drugs of any kind,wen we cross the border me and my family we do it legally to spend dollars bought with pesos.

Maybe you would be more familiar with the price of drugs since they are sold in the U.S. more then here ,and it seems that you have no idea how we live in the border.
anyway i don't take it personal your just a victim of propaganda,maybe you even watch FOX news.
Agree, drugs are transported to US in many ways, but through the dessert? It is very unprovable, the transport of drugs in majority is by sea, underground tunnels, even planes (Amado Carrillo), or by trucks and cars (low quantity).

[Aztec Eagle]

I belive that the U.S. has a god given right like we in Mexico do to secure and defend our borders,i also know theres many disinformation and xenophobic statements in this touchy subject .

Im NOT a pro-fence guy, a wall would not stop or solve anything,it would only hurt relations on both sides of the border and to have the National Guard is also not the solution there not trained for this kind of operation and are not familiar on what happends here at the boder.

I would rather see a NEW kind of Boder patrol more humane better equiped with many more agents and more fire power,better trained to face problems like this one and also to have them work hand and hand with Mexican authorities and the Mexican Army so wen there faced with a dilema like the one in Texas there better informed i lived in the border all my life and in my humble opinion that would change things a bit.

[AZRON]

Are you serious? is that the response of an mature thinking adult? my questions were valid and reasonable,are you familiar with the border in order to make such claims...

I have no idea whats the price of drugs in the street or of a Coyote.

First because i know no one that whants to cross illegaly to the U.S. and second because i dont use drugs of any kind,wen we cross the border me and my family we do it legally to spend dollars bought with pesos.

Maybe you would be more familiar with the price of drugs since they are sold in the U.S. more then here ,and it seems that you have no idea how we live in the border.
anyway i dont take it personal your just a victim of propaganda,maybe you even watch FOX news.

I'm just asking what are reasonable standards to judge the traffic , I'm not implying anything about you personally. All the talk but no real parameters of measuring results. We do get figures of those detained by district but don't know if the flow just moved somewheres else.

I don't think the border is as wide open as many claim it is or was 2 years ago and I do see Calderon being proactive and good for both countries which one won't hear on FOXNEWS. You won't hear me complaining about working with him or giving the money unless too much corruption occurs . I see him behind the scenes improving relations by his take charge attitude and actions and doing good for the citizens of Mexico.

[Felix U. Gómez]

True, as long as the border remains unsecure and wide open there will be no halt to the drug traffic.

How about the US gets off its butt and starts actually doing something to combat the true root cause of the drug problem which is its insatiable appetite for drugs? It is a well known fact that the United States is the biggest drug consuming market in the world. It is also a fact that most US efforts to solve this problem are directed towards stopping drugs at the borders, which so far, in the more than three decades since the US has conducted the so-called "war on drugs" has proven innefective. Very little effort, resources, and creativity are used to try and diminish the demand for drugs, and many drug users are let go with nothing but a slap on the wrist, especially if they are wealthy and powerful. How about the US doing something with a little more teeth than just "red ribbon week" at the local elementary? It would help us way more than $500 million or even $5,000 million for that matter.
A fence would only serve to make it "look like" some politicians are doing something about the problem, but in reality would not stop the flow of drugs. It would be just for show, damage relations, and be in the end just a big waste of money.

[Felix U. Gómez]

Same here, thank God Fox is gone.



The same can be said of weapons crossing into Mexico from the United States as well.

If you meant Fox News, I agree with you, but I think that they're unfortunately still there. If you meant Vicente Fox, I don't. First, as president he really didn't do such a bad job, secondly, if he had, Calderon wouldn't have been elected.

[Shadowstorm]

Will like I said a million times before. Both countries need to work together to slow down on illegal immigration and try to stop the gun and drug trades, because sitting their and arguing about who's to blame won't do nothing.

[Dragunov]

If you meant Fox News, I agree with you, but I think that they're unfortunately still there. If you meant Vicente Fox, I don't. First, as president he really didn't do such a bad job, secondly, if he had, Calderon wouldn't have been elected.

I have to disagree with that. During Fox's administration narcos gained more power. 90% of drugs was making it to the US. Now that Calderon is in office it went down to 60%.

BTW, where were you dude? I thought you got banned or something.

[INAT]

I have to disagree with that. During Fox's administration narcos gained more power. 90% of drugs was making it to the US. Now that Calderon is in office it went down to 60%.

BTW, where were you dude? I thought you got banned or something.

90% TO 60% That is like saying you the cancer has spread to 60% percent of your body instead of 90%.Both are still as bad.Or are they?

[noname]

Rant On

The best way besides mining and carpet bombing the border dailyp-), to stop the flow of illegals is to impose harsh sanctions against any business in the US who surreptitiously hire/ maintain illegals. Also having term limits to purge the scumbag politicians who have ties(lobbyist money) to corporations that harvest illegals for their "cheap labor". Until then nothing even as nice as having a huge border fence, and actually enforcing immigration laws, will have no effect.


Rant Off.

[Nano]

Dragunov, I agree that under Fox organized crime in Mexico gained more power, but that was as a result of the power transition. The previous administration was in with the Narcos and kept things nice and ginger for the most part. As, to the issue about the U.S. doing less than it could and should I agree, but it has been Mexico's second foreign policy to offload its economic problems onto U.S. soil let it be in the form of drugs or Mexican workers. The dynamics of a poor immigrant labor pool with the combination of its effect on demographics makes you guessed it Mexicans on both sides the gate keepers to America's appetite for drugs. The benefits are all around, the drug trade feeds back U.S. dollars back and immigrant workers feed their families back home.
The issue now really is not about how bad drugs are, but how Mexico's stability is being threatened by individuals who care only about their own gain. Mexico in the not so distant
future may see itself becoming a failed state. Conflict between those feed up with "Drug War" corruption and the government's (or at least some of its members)complicity in all of this. In my honest opinion the U.S. is very soft on drug crimes if it calls it a War on Drugs. Mexico is not any better with the fact being that the death penalty does not exist there. Mexicans in many ways take justice all on their own defending themselves against elements of society who the government are beholden to or too scared to deal with them properly. In all of this is a sad tragedy of those caught in the middle of failed policies by both countries. The U.S. should either make it a capital crime to use/sell hard drugs or make them legal. The justice system only feeds recruits and street control for gangs who go to prison. Mexico well it needs to build a long term economic strategy, after all you can only rely on cheap labor for economic growth for so long. Perhaps you ought to learn from the Chinese on how to go about it. The Chinese-Mexicans will be a great asset for Mexico in its future if it wishes to make good on its potential as a country.

[Aztec Eagle]

Rant On

The best way besides mining and carpet bombing the border dailyp-), to stop the flow of illegals is to impose harsh sanctions against any business in the US who surreptitiously hire/ maintain illegals. Also having term limits to purge the scumbag politicians who have ties(lobbyist money) to corporations that harvest illegals for their "cheap labor". Until then nothing even as nice as having a huge border fence, and actually enforcing immigration laws, will have no effect.


Rant Off.


Wow!!..this is by far the most stupid comment i have ever seen in MP.net even the racist coments cant compare with this one,can you imagine just for a second this comment coming out of your mouth,is like your tongue was disconected form your brain.

:bash:

[Felix U. Gómez]

90% TO 60% That is like saying you the cancer has spread to 60% percent of your body instead of 90%.Both are still as bad.Or are they?

No, that's more like saying that the cancer was reduced by 33%, which is very good news as it indicates that you might be beating the cancer. However while consumption rates in the US remain the same all this progress will be worth crap because the incentive to make profit is still there for anyone that wishes to take the risk.

[Felix U. Gómez]

Wow!!..this is by far the most stupid comment i have ever seen in MP.net even the racist coments cant compare with this one,can you imagine just for a second this comment coming out of your mouth,is like your tongue was disconected form your brain.

:bash:

The dufus didn't even notice that the thread was about drugs, not immigration. Carpet bombing the border? Do you notice that the dumbest and most hair-brained comments come out of those that are hundreds of miles away from the border?

[Aztec Eagle]

The dufus didn't even notice that the thread was about drugs, not immigration. Carpet bombing the border? Do you notice that the dumbest and most hair-brained comments come out of those that are hundreds of miles away from the border?

Yes, but is not only the Americans who lived milies away from the border,also the Mexicans that are comfortably in Mexico City or central or southern Mexico always make some stupid remarks about americans and the border wich they have no idea how it works.

I find my self defending Americans in Mexican forums, and defending Mexicans in American forums...lol

[Felix U. Gómez]

I have to disagree with that. During Fox's administration narcos gained more power. 90% of drugs was making it to the US. Now that Calderon is in office it went down to 60%.

BTW, where were you dude? I thought you got banned or something.

He had more success in some areas than in others, but even in the drug war he caught more heads of cartels than Zedillo, Salinas, De La Madrid, JoLoPo and Echeverria combined. The violence only increased because they were actually being combated and they had to strike back. In areas where he was successful was in lowering inflation, lowering interest rates, lowering the foreign debt, increasing the number of first time home owners to record levels, and ending the twenty year-old cycle of peso devaluations that tended to really kill the economy. He also did some impressive gains in the reduction of extreme poverty levels (I know some jerk will say something about this but it is true, according to world bank and UN figures, not only Mexican government figures). That's why I say that he wasn't half bad, besides the fact that his popularity rating were up in the 60's near the end of his term and that helped Calderon get elected. The fact that he wasn't very popular among right wingers in the US was really irrelevant since he wasn't working for them.

I wasn't banned or suspended or anything, I've just had a lot of work lately.

[Felix U. Gómez]

Yes, but is not only the Americans who lived milies away from the border,also the Mexicans that are comfortably in Mexico City or central or southern Mexico always make some stupid remarks about americans and the border wich they have no idea how it works.

I find my self defending Americans in Mexican forums, and defending Mexicans in American forums...lol

Now, now, leave woolpack out of this, and if you can't, just remember to insult him in English only.

[Shadowstorm]

Yes, but is not only the Americans who lived milies away from the border,also the Mexicans that are comfortably in Mexico City or central or southern Mexico always make some stupid remarks about americans and the border wich they have no idea how it works.

I find my self defending Americans in Mexican forums, and defending Mexicans in American forums...lol
Yep, like I told you earlier.

[Ordie]

Seek the middle way guys.

Mexico:

Stimulate the economy to allow for job growth and less folks are willing to make the trek up north.
Enforce anti-narcotics measures and traffiking.
Improve transparency (Anti-corruption)US:

Pay real living wages and benefits for service sector entry level work as a means to encourage locals take on jobs normally associated with migrant labor.
Allow for more temporary work visas as a better means to track and tax individuals and to alow for seasonal economic demands.
Cut the demand for narcotics through education and social services. Perhaps legalize pot with a high tax rate as we do with cigarettes and booze.All:

Both countries have more in common than many of our so called allies in the Middle East.
Lets work on being friends for once.

[Nano]

Ordie I can certainly agree and share your thoughts on this issue. Reasonable people can all certainly agree there is more than enough blame on both sides that neither side can present as fact one side bares more fault/responsibility than the other for the whole affair. I just don't think both societies are ready for real and practical solutions. One side largely consumes the product and in recent years has made gang culture mainstream and all they stand for all more palatable for the youth. The other side sees economic opportunities all around in the affair, while making themselves out to be the victim of it all. I think both sides have made important strides, but it is our societies and most importantly individuals that need to change their tolerance of certain vices and how they are dealt with. I can certainly agree that working together is certainly better than casting blame on each other while the scourge on both societies runs a mock.

[Dragunov]

Mexico 'needs US action on drugs'

The US must keep to pledges to tackle the flow of arms from the US into Mexico and money-laundering, Mexico's attorney general has stressed.


Eduardo Medina Mora said those parts of a new bilateral initiative were more important than the provision of $1.4bn of US funds under the plan.

Mr Medina also estimated about $10bn (£4.8bn) in laundered Mexican drug money ended up in US banks each year.

The anti-drugs "Merida Initiative" has caused some controversy in Mexico.

Some politicians have dubbed it "Plan Mexico", inviting comparisons with the contentious anti-narcotic scheme Plan Colombia, established by the US in co-operation with Colombia in 2000.

But President Felipe Calderon, who worked on the Merida Initiative with US President George W Bush, insists it will not entail an increased US military presence in Mexico as some suspect.

President Bush recently asked the US Congress for a first tranche of £500m funding for the plan.

US 'permissive'

The money will go towards training Mexican troops and the purchase of equipment and technology to fight the often violent drugs trade.

But on Tuesday, Mr Medina said that key parts of the agreement were US commitments to clamp down on the trade in arms and the illegal chemicals used to process drugs, money-laundering and domestic consumption of drugs.

"For me, it is far more important that the United States is dedicated to confronting these four components of the drug-trafficking equation," he told the Mexican Congress.

He said that there were some 12,000 American gun stores located close to the 3,200km border with Mexico, which, along with the US' "permissive" gun-control laws, facilitated the flow of arms into Mexico.

Mr Medina added that about $10bn of laundered Mexican drug money ended up in US banks each year. He said his office was drafting a money-laundering bill that would regulate those responsible for transactions commonly associated with money-laundering.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7070409.stm

[LaoSexMachine]

2nd Amendment will be too hot to be touched by American politicans. Got to remember each state has different gun laws.

As for the money laundering thing. Well money can't be laundered if you had tighter laws.

Sad to say the "drug war" is a loosing battle. Just my two cents.

[Nano]

I like this if people really work on this plan in good faith things will get done.
As to the politicians talking about it being "plan Mexico" I suspect their true intentions are far more geared towards protecting their drug enterprise. The bank account issue is huge and can bring about more results than a border fence ever could. I wish I was in charge of investigating bank transactions, I just can't in all good faith believe anything of great impact will get done. Here's to hope all in all a good sign. 10billion seems like a small figure to me, but that can just be money that stays put permanently in U.S. banks each year. Looks like Mexican intel has been doing its work.
Ezekiel I agree "drug war" is a loosing one when you treat it simply as a law enforcement issue. In Wars enemies are killed mercilessly, not given cushy prisons that they run and built.