View Full Version : World citizens favour stronger EU global role
Scourge
10-30-2007, 05:32 PM
World citizens favour stronger EU global role
25.10.2007 - 09:23 CET | By Elitsa Vucheva
Citizens worldwide prefer "soft power" in international affairs rather than military might, and the EU appears to be the political actor whose role is most respected, a new survey suggests.
In the poll, released by new think tank the European Council on Foreign Relations, more than one third of the respondents (35 percent) said they see an increased EU power as a central element needed to develop a better world.
In comparison, 26 percent of respondents would like to see US influence grow, while 23% would like Russia to be more important and 24% say the same thing about China.
On top of that, 37% estimate the world would be better off if US influence in the world declined, and 29% and 32% believe this is true about Russia and China respectively.
A less powerful EU on the other hand is desired by 20% of those surveyed.
The poll was conducted among 57,000 respondents in 52 countries around the globe.
According to analysts from the think-thank, negative perceptions of Russia and China – or Iran – "seem to be connected with the fact that they are perceived not so much as rising economic or political powers as military powers".
"The European Union is unique among the big four powers (the other three being the US, China and Russia) in that no one wants to balance its rise", the think-tank's executive director Mark Leonard and board member Ivan Krastev commented.
"It is striking that a continent with a military budget second only to the United States, and the biggest number of peace-keeping forces serving in the world seems to be perceived as a non-military power", they added.
Support for the EU at home and abroad
Unlike the US, the EU seems to have a good reputation worldwide and is also "highly appreciated" in its neighbourhood, the analysts write.
Most European citizens do prefer a bigger role for the EU, while respondents in third countries such as Albania or Moldova also give a high approval rating to the EU.
A notable exception, Ukraine would rather see an increased role for Russia (45 percent) than the EU (41 percent).
Also in candidate country Turkey enthusiasm about a greater EU role is not high. However, Turkey's case is particular as "it demonstrates the instincts of an unrecognised world power", Mr Leonard and Mr Krastev stated.
"Turkish public opinion resists the influence of any of the rising powers and (…) expressed rejection of both EU and US leadership of world affairs", they add.
Enlargement perspective is key
Results of the survey show two important trends particularly as regards neighbouring countries, according to the think-thank analysts.
First, it suggests that there is a close link between the "EU's soft power" and the possible prospects of enlargement in the EU neighbourhood.
For example, "the stark rise in the attractiveness of Russia in some parts of the former Eastern Bloc and the ex-USSR - particularly in Ukraine – is linked to European foot-dragging on enlargement, which is having a negative impact on its reputation in the European neighbourhood".
Secondly, the results also indicate that in places where the bloc acts as "a quasi-colonial power" – such as Bosnia and Herzegovina – enthusiasm about EU influence in the world is much less ****ounced.
"This makes clear that the EU faces a choice in the Balkans either to press ahead with enlargement so as to normalise relations with these countries, or to face further hostility if it continues behaving like an imperial power", the analysts conclude.
This year's Voice of the People annual survey has been carried out by Gallup International in collaboration with the European Council on Foreign Relations.
© 2007 EUobserver, All rights reserved
LINK (http://euobserver.com/9/25036)
shocker1
10-30-2007, 05:39 PM
European Council on Foreign Relations sister entity of the CFR, Rockefeller creation and globalist agenda. CFR supporter of action in Iraq, Iran and anywhere else the think tank can sway Americans to go.
Think tanks are nothing but a collection of failed politicians and money brokers. Europeans would be better off without this "think tank".
Why compare US and EU? One being a nation the other an economic partnership. Oh wait the ECFR has a different idea on the EU's role. Seems more like a nation everyday.
2Sheds_Jackson
10-30-2007, 06:35 PM
Go, mighty EU, go forth and ask nicely. If they don't comply, use harsh language. Whatever you do, don't resort to using your military or you'll be no better than the knuckle dragging Americans, which 3 out of 4 dentists surveyed did not prefer for their patients who chew gum.
Atlantic Friend
10-30-2007, 06:42 PM
It's not US Hard Power vs EU Soft Power. Any country must have - and use - both, sometimes alternatively, sometimes simultaneously.
As we say in France, "if the only tool you have is a hammer, ll your problems will start looking like nails".
Switek
10-30-2007, 06:44 PM
WTF is EU in that case???? (What the hell is EU itself?) Please elaborate...:roll:
And who are "Citizens worldwide"???? One BIG fake, I guess.
rofl
Laworkerbee
10-30-2007, 06:47 PM
As we say in France, "if the only tool you have is a hammer, ll your problems will start looking like nails".
That is an American saying Froggy, stop ripping us off.
Where the hell have you been? It is good to see you are back.
Atlantic Friend
10-30-2007, 06:49 PM
That is an American saying Froggy, stop ripping us off.
Where the hell have you been? It is good to see you are back.
I've been a tad busy. Divorcing, changing jobs, writing historical fiction, getting plastered... You know. Business as usual.
Laworkerbee
10-30-2007, 06:51 PM
I hope things are going your way Pal.
Atlantic Friend
10-30-2007, 07:12 PM
I hope things are going your way Pal.
Well, beer still works as usual... It goes my way during three pints, and then it demands to go out of my way pretty fast.
Laworkerbee
10-30-2007, 07:19 PM
Well, beer still works as usual... It goes my way during three pints, and then it demands to go out of my way pretty fast.
Thats what they say about beer; you never own it, you are just renting it. :)
Atlantic Friend
10-30-2007, 07:24 PM
Thats what they say about beer; you never own it, you are just renting it. :)
Indeed ! Instead of favoring stronger European role, world citizens should favor stronger European ale.
Kilgor
10-30-2007, 07:30 PM
Citizens worldwide prefer "soft power" in international affairs rather than military might, and the EU appears to be the political actor whose role is most respected, a new survey suggests.
Soft power ?
I have to lol....
Real power comes from economic or military projection.
Chimera
10-30-2007, 07:32 PM
WTF is EU in that case???? (What the hell is EU itself?) Please elaborate...:roll:
The European Union is a political and economic community that provides, through intergovernmental features, financial aids to several countries, such as Poland. Last year, Poland recieved 11,2 billion euros, the highest subsidies given to a member and the equivalent of 10% of the European Commission's budget. Just want you to know that.
But anyway, i agree, i have no idea of what a "worldwide citizen" is.
Rictor
10-30-2007, 11:06 PM
See personally, I would prefer "no power" to "soft power", 'cause the EU's economic/diplomatic interventionism only looks dandy compared to the US' military interventionism...but that's just little ol' me. Why people consider it necessary to have this or that super-power lording over them (sorry, "leading the international community") is beyond me.
I'm sure the European Council on Foreign Relations is completely impartial in the matter and is only reporting the facts. Giving European leaders and ego boost must surely not have crossed their minds.
I can't think of a name
10-31-2007, 02:42 AM
European Council on Foreign Relations was set up and funded by Soros, it just started this Fall.
Douros81
10-31-2007, 05:14 AM
WTF is EU in that case???? (What the hell is EU itself?) Please elaborate...:roll:
rofl
The 4th Reich :)
Switek
10-31-2007, 05:28 AM
The European Union is a political and economic community
Exactly is a community, nothing more. But from that survey, I find that, EU top leaders dream they rule a superpower...
rofl
If the EU is so unimportant I wonder why so many people here react with arrogance and sarcasm to the result of that poll?
It appears to me that mostly Americans think the EU had to be nothing more than an economical partnership of convenience. In fact, more than 45%, upward trend, of all the legislation for every Union member nation is made in Brussels today, and the only branch in which the Union has not gained real power yet is foreign affairs. Every citizen of every Union member nation daily comes countless times into contact with decisions someone in Brussels has made and not someone in Paris, Warsaw or Rome.
Solely the unflexibility and small-mindedness of some members, foremost Poland and the UK - at least that's the current situation - slows down the tempo of the Union and make it look like a giant paper tiger.
Well, go ahead my American friends, play the world police and be our lodestar. My tit-for-tat response.
Switek
10-31-2007, 06:56 AM
The problem is a lack of common EU foreign policy but to make it realistic and efficient EU need its armed forces... and this just the begining of the problems.
So far EU forces were created to fulfil special tasks in a gentle way where particular interest of one country was redefinied as paneuropean. Besides this all humanitarian BS about Chad, tell me what's the interest of whole EU t be there. I can find only French one...
TheBelgian
10-31-2007, 07:04 AM
Exactly is a community, nothing more. But from that survey, I find that, EU top leaders dream they rule a superpower...
rofl
A superpower may be a bit much, but the EU nowadays is way more than just a community. More powers are continuously devolving from the member states to the EU. Having a common foreign policy and a military to back it up is still far off. But with the economic clout the EU wields it is defenitly a force to be reconed with on the international stage.
achilles
10-31-2007, 07:48 AM
Go, mighty EU, go forth and ask nicely. If they don't comply, use harsh language. Whatever you do, don't resort to using your military or you'll be no better than the knuckle dragging Americans, which 3 out of 4 dentists surveyed did not prefer for their patients who chew gum.
lol well, i dont know what the dentists say but anything is preferable to a neocon US of A...
Sounds a bit romantic, but only a strong, unified Europe (with or without the UK) can only promote The Economist's last moto: "Brains, not Bullets".
MichaelF
10-31-2007, 09:58 AM
The trick is, the EU (rightly) picks & chooses situations where it only needs to employ so-called "soft power" (whch is neither particularly soft, nor particularly powerful).
Expand its roles and involvement and, eventually, EU ops start resembling US/NATO ops.
Switek
10-31-2007, 10:00 AM
The trick is, the EU (rightly) picks & chooses situations where it only needs to employ so-called "soft power" (whch is neither particularly soft, nor particularly powerful).
Expand its roles and involvement and, eventually, EU ops start resembling US/NATO ops.
Good remark...
The trick is, the EU (rightly) picks & chooses situations where it only needs to employ so-called "soft power" (whch is neither particularly soft, nor particularly powerful).
That is the most common practice of international diplomacy. A community of interests only intervenes when success and profit is foreseeable.
The US of A already could have stopped the bloodshed in Dafur if it had wanted to do so, to name only one example.
Laworkerbee
10-31-2007, 01:56 PM
The US of A already could have stopped the bloodshed in Dafur if it had wanted to do so, to name only one example.
Darfur is a hell of a lot closer to Europe than it is to the United States, it is in Europes back yard. Europe made a mess of Africa the least it can do is try and clean some of it up.
The conflict in Darfur didn't start yesterday, it has been going steadily since the 1950's or so. I had hopes for this Euro-Corps to be created to intervene in places like this but alas it is nothing but a pipe dream.
Switek
10-31-2007, 02:28 PM
Darfur is a hell of a lot closer to Europe than it is to the United States, it is in Europes back yard. Europe made a mess of Africa the least it can do is try and clean some of it up.
The conflict in Darfur didn't start yesterday, it has been going steadily since the 1950's or so. I had hopes for this Euro-Corps to be created to intervene in places like this but alas it is nothing but a pipe dream.
What Darfur? There won't be any peacekeepers there. All that UN mission undertaken by EU and AU will be focused in eastern Chad, former French colony... Where France still have their own interests and where some FFL units are already stationed...
Laworkerbee
10-31-2007, 02:38 PM
I was simply responding to Mucks assertion that the United States could have stopped the fighting in Darfur "had it wanted too" where as Europe is just as capable but lacks the will as well.
Switek
10-31-2007, 02:52 PM
... where as Europe is just as capable but lacks the will as well.
This lack of will is a direct result of many counter interests inside Europe itself...
Mastermind
10-31-2007, 03:24 PM
Who are these so-called "World Citizens"? What is their form of government...are they socialists? Are they Muslim or Christian or are they Athiests? Do they have a Priemier or a President? Are they slaves or freemen? Do they own slaves? Are they wealthy or poor? Where do they vote on these "Worldly" matters? Do they have an army? Do they pay taxes to support thier self defense and keep the "World peace"? Have they fought to preserve freedom world wide? Have they sacrificed to protect human honor, dignity and liberty?
They sound like a bunch of freeloaders and big mouths who like to leech off of other people and who like to bloviate on and on about utopian marvels of peace and tranquility. Perhaps they are entities from heaven who just like to make us all "feel" bad about how miserable we lowly Earth bound humans are and how absolutely perfect and enlightened they are.
You know what? I suggest the fother muckers can go fet gucked...that's my opinion on it.
Who are these so-called "World Citizens"? What is their form of government...are they socialists? Are they Muslim or Christian or are they Athiests? Do they have a Priemier or a President? Are they slaves or freemen? Do they own slaves? Are they wealthy or poor? Where do they vote on these "Worldly" matters? Do they have an army? Do they pay taxes to support thier self defense and keep the "World peace"? Have they fought to preserve freedom world wide? Have they sacrificed to protect human honor, dignity and liberty?
They sound like a bunch of freeloaders and big mouths who like to leech off of other people and who like to bloviate on and on about utopian marvels of peace and tranquility. Perhaps they are entities from heaven who just like to make us all "feel" bad about how miserable we lowly Earth bound humans are and how absolutely perfect and enlightened they are.
You know what? I suggest the fother muckers can go fet gucked...that's my opinion on it.
Citizens worldwide
The poll was conducted among 57,000 respondents in 52 countries around the globe.
Got stuck on semantics?
muttbutt
10-31-2007, 03:42 PM
The trick is, the EU (rightly) picks & chooses situations where it only needs to employ so-called "soft power" (whch is neither particularly soft, nor particularly powerful).
Expand its roles and involvement and, eventually, EU ops start resembling US/NATO ops.
I don't know, you'd be surprised what "soft power" can do, the problem with military power is that you have to focus constently for it to be effective, the minute your distracted with other problems requiring that power, the people you were using it on just get back to business, "soft power" can change things more permenently if used well, all those little countries in the Balkans working their ass's off to reform and get along so they can join the EU would point in that direction somewhat....frankly the EU's over riding concern should be making Europe prosperous and peaceful, everything else should be way lower down the list of priorites, I learned the lesson after Palestinians who we funded and lets be honest sided with a little decided to burn down building my tax money paid for over some stupid cartoons...realism hit me like a Tsunami
Switek
10-31-2007, 03:49 PM
The poll was conducted among 57,000 respondents in 52 countries around the globe.
Got stuck on semantics?
It really says nothing about sample structure and the methodology of the reresearch considering the fact that there are about 144 countries in the world, for example.
Mastermind
10-31-2007, 03:53 PM
Yeah...Joka...I know..I just think folks should worry about their own back yards and journos should quit this crap about "World citizens"...57,000 out of 6 billion or so. My calculatior does not have a decimal point that small to figure the percentage of it (being sarcastic). And who knows how the poll was conducted in so-called 57 nations. G Soros pals, no doubt. Theres a fine group of wealthy spoiled little air heads for ya.
Yeah...Joka...I know..I just think folks should worry about their own back yards and journos should quit this crap about "World citizens"...57,000 out of 6 billion or so. My calculatior does not have a decimal point that small to figure the percentage of it (being sarcastic). And who knows how the poll was conducted in so-called 57 nations. G Soros pals, no doubt. Theres a fine group of wealthy spoiled little air heads for ya.
I'm not saying this poll is particularly accurate or interesting either but you're not even barking at the right sort of plant. Whether the participants are described as world citizens, citizens worldwide or people who live on this planet doesn't really matter, it's just semantics.
Anyway, considering the recent blunders of US foreign policy I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people would prefer the emergence of a more gentle superpower.
Switek
10-31-2007, 05:17 PM
Anyway, considering the recent blunders of US foreign policy I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people would prefer the emergence of a more gentle superpower.
Partly true... USA has a bad PR recently (with personal contribution of GWB), so by comparision EU seems to be an angel...
But it is not an angel. As I said before, money makes the world go round and not good intentions.
Mastermind
10-31-2007, 05:55 PM
"More gentle superpower"...now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one...
You do not get to be a "Superpower" by being a "gentle" little weakling and letting other nations trample over your nation's interests....the nations that trample you are the ones that become superpowers...history proves the point.
Semantics...perhaps...I think we are not on the same wavelength on this...
Actually, the only nations except of the EU members itself which trample down EUs interests are other super powers - China, Russia, and above all the US.
What Darfur? There won't be any peacekeepers there. All that UN mission undertaken by EU and AU will be focused in eastern Chad, former French colony... Where France still have their own interests and where some FFL units are already stationed...
I might have misunderstood you, however have you checked the map? Eastern chad boarders darfur. The point of the mission to chad is:
1. Keep the konflict from spreading(which it to some extent already has).
2. Provide security for the refugees from darfur.
3. Keep lokal chadian groups in line.
4. gently remind the players in darfur that a man with a bigger stick is just over the boarder.p-)
Mastermind
10-31-2007, 10:59 PM
Actually, the only nations except of the EU members itself which trample down EUs interests are other super powers - China, Russia, and above all the US.
That seems strange to vex the US when it is Russia that has directly threatened to cut off fuels and trade and has committed all sorts of goofy incursions into EU territory with both subs and air. All threats within this century, too. "Above all the US" and the US are the guys willing to share missile defense technology, equipment and personnel and have provided the great stumbling block for the last fifty years of the last century for potential invasion by USSR...namely, stationing huge numbers of US forces through Europe at very heavy expense to US taxpayers. I wonder how Europe might have faired economically if they had had to provide 100% of their own self defense against the USSR...they might all be speaking Russian by now.....might not be quite the economic power they are today, eh? And the US is made out to be the evil genius behind Europe's failure to achieve super power status. And that free money from the Marshall plan, again provided by good old stupid American tax payers sure held Europe back, didn't it... That kind of crap just really irks me as an American. Hell, I served two years in a pathfinder Airborne outfit in Germany, stood on the line looking into those East German beady eyes in snow and rain and hot sun and was alerted many times to be ready to lay it all on the line if the Eastern Block came through.
We must have really been evil to have even thought of coming over twice in the first half of the last century to help out. But, "Above all the US" are the ones holding Europe down.....makes me want to say "Go to hell....."
naymeria
11-02-2007, 01:12 PM
That seems strange to vex the US when it is Russia that has directly threatened to cut off fuels and trade and has committed all sorts of goofy incursions into EU territory with both subs and air. All threats within this century, too. "Above all the US" and the US are the guys willing to share missile defense technology, equipment and personnel and have provided the great stumbling block for the last fifty years of the last century for potential invasion by USSR...namely, stationing huge numbers of US forces through Europe at very heavy expense to US taxpayers. I wonder how Europe might have faired economically if they had had to provide 100% of their own self defense against the USSR...they might all be speaking Russian by now.....might not be quite the economic power they are today, eh? And the US is made out to be the evil genius behind Europe's failure to achieve super power status. And that free money from the Marshall plan, again provided by good old stupid American tax payers sure held Europe back, didn't it... That kind of crap just really irks me as an American. Hell, I served two years in a pathfinder Airborne outfit in Germany, stood on the line looking into those East German beady eyes in snow and rain and hot sun and was alerted many times to be ready to lay it all on the line if the Eastern Block came through.
We must have really been evil to have even thought of coming over twice in the first half of the last century to help out. But, "Above all the US" are the ones holding Europe down.....makes me want to say "Go to hell....."
Heavy on america’s tax money? Not exactly...
Italy pays 41% of the costs for a total amount of 400 mil euros per year. These include free usage of land and buildings, free maintenance, cost reductions on the use of infrastructures, exemption on taxes for goods and services destined to the US military and other beneficials for US troops and their families, including tax free petrol.
There are 113 American military sites only on italy’s meagre territory, among which there are ground, sea and air bases, ammunition depots (including nuclear weapons in a, mind you, fully non-nuclear country), communication centres, NSA sites and strategic sites. Army, navy, air force, NSA, DIA and add also CIA, while we’re at it. How many are they between militaries and civilians in all? Nobody knows for sure, but official numbers seem to be a bit lask.
If this has burdened on American pockets, it not only has burdened on italian ones too, but the country with its peninsular and insular structure has given the US one of the most strategic and dominating positions over the mediterranean sea, towards africa and the ME. And i don’t need to be a military expert to understand that. Your country has gained from it much more than what a open-heartened generosity wishes to make people think.
And please do, tell me more about how italy was menaced by the ‘Commies’ after the soviets and jugoslavia collapsed. Maybe a word on the Taranto base too?
At least have the mind to see things how they stand, instead of going after emotions and myths.
Europe owes a lot to those americans who fought and died in the two world wars. And also to those of you who were deployed as servicemen in europe during the cold war. But i’m sorry, not to your gov’ts, nor to your policy-makers nor to what you may have as a current belief. And if some americans don’t see what’s happening and how your last two presidents are acting in international affaires and using war, you can’t pretend that most europeans will even have the shadow of a desire to follow.
You use your policies and europe will use its. And if these start clashing, as lately they have started to, then that’s the way history will evolve.
It has nothing to do with being ungrateful.
Nay
Audio
11-02-2007, 01:45 PM
European Council on Foreign Relations was set up and funded by Soros, it just started this Fall.
One step closer to "world government".
Mastermind
11-02-2007, 01:50 PM
You know, in 1964 France said to the US...get the F out! We immediately abandionded bases we had spent billions building...handed them over post haste to the French...I know, I was detailed in 1965 to clean out remaining warehouses of US supplies and watched thousands of looters scrounging window, doors, and even commodes from the base buildings. We did not argue, we did not hesitate...WE LEFT when asked. Germany, Italy and England among others have the absolute right to tell us to get out and we would go without the slightest bit of fuss....I suggest, heartily, your nation do that....Please! We'd be no longer a burden.
Uh..what's that? Now there are suddenly reasons we are loved? No...you don't love us...you love that darling and so hated Yanquee Dollar....Yup...that's the bottom line, isn't it? We be gone, we don't buy your local stuff, hire your local folks and you get to pay their unemployment and you get to build up your defenses to replace the vacuum....And, us much abused tax payers here at home might actually see a tiny speck of relief. There's no war in Europe...there's no threat of war in Europe...ther'e no gooming Soviet Union to spook you guys....Why the F are we still there? Think about that little question, will ya?.
Laworkerbee
11-02-2007, 02:13 PM
Masermind,
I feel the same way about American forces deployed still in South Korea, if they have not gotten their act together after 50 years (which I believe actually they have) then why the hell are our boys still there ready to fight and die?
Time to pack it up worldwide I say.
Freibier
11-02-2007, 02:38 PM
Time to pack it up worldwide I say.
Better yesterday than tomorrow
Isn't Bush planning to start troop withdrawal from Germany? In fact Germans want US troops to stay - as tens of thousands of people here make their money with the foreign troops presence.
Laworkerbee
11-02-2007, 02:47 PM
Isn't Bush planning to start troop withdrawal from Germany? In fact Germans want US troops to stay - as tens of thousands of people here make their money with the foreign troops presence.
Europe needs to step up with security concerns in it's own backyard, Americans have no national interest in the Balkans for example.
Laworkerbee
11-02-2007, 02:53 PM
That means what?
We have no business interfering in the Balkans thats what, I'm tired of America intervening everywhere especially when it is not in our national interest but someone elses.
Deploy the Euro-Corps already!!!
perdurabo
11-02-2007, 03:03 PM
Yankee Go Home! ;)
Mastermind
11-02-2007, 03:04 PM
I doubt they could afford to step up thier own plate....they have too much committed to the overly vaunted and EU tax payer subsidized Airbus ...keeping the Airbus costs low to drive off all those American built Aircraft. Isn't that ironic, we pay billions to keep American troops and hdwe in Europe so the EU consortiums can in turn subsidize projects to make Americans here at home lose jobs...what's wrong with that picture?
Look, I really am going to apologize to any European ally who may take offense to what I have been writing. I do not want to belittle the huge contribution on both sides of the water to our mutual security. We certainly had made efforts that well earned mutual respect to all concerned. It's just that after all we have done together, it is really difficult to sit back and watch as people who received so much benefit from American money, blood and sweat to tell us we are the bad guys. We have never been out to conquer anyone. We have never forced ourselves on anyone who didn't want us to be there...except, of course, the occassional enslaving, murdering SOB Dictator. You don't want us in your country, lobby your govt for that goal...They tell us to leave, we have always left (notice the Phillipines and Panama along with France as further proof of that). But, please, I don't think, all things considered, we have earned anything but a bit of gratitude and a modicum of respect.
Freibier
11-02-2007, 03:22 PM
Yankee Go Home! ;)
Well put, couldn't have said it better ;)
muttbutt
11-02-2007, 03:30 PM
I doubt they could afford to step up thier own plate....they have too much committed to the overly vaunted and EU tax payer subsidized Airbus ...keeping the Airbus costs low to drive off all those American built Aircraft. Isn't that ironic, we pay billions to keep American troops and hdwe in Europe so the EU consortiums can in turn subsidize projects to make Americans here at home lose jobs...what's wrong with that picture?
what has that distorted view of Airbus got to do with this thread?
Laworkerbee
11-02-2007, 03:31 PM
Well put, couldn't have said it better ;)
Bastards....
muttbutt
11-02-2007, 03:32 PM
Bastards....
You know you like the tough lovep-)
Weasel
11-02-2007, 03:33 PM
Owned.........
Laworkerbee
11-02-2007, 03:35 PM
You know you like the tough lovep-)
As love as there is love
Owned.........
Who is owned? I'm agreeing with you wanks....YANKEE GO HOME!!!
muttbutt
11-02-2007, 03:49 PM
As love as there is love
Who is owned? I'm agreeing with you wanks....YANKEE GO HOME!!!
Better yet, Yankee stay, Germans go somewhere else! p-)......I hear Madagascars nice this time of year
Weasel
11-02-2007, 03:54 PM
Who is owned? I'm agreeing with you wanks....YANKEE GO HOME!!!
You! Why? Because you are a Yank! Gotcha.
:hug:
IronFinn
11-02-2007, 05:01 PM
There are 113 American military sites only on italy’s meagre territory, among which there are ground, sea and air bases, ammunition depots (including nuclear weapons in a, mind you, fully non-nuclear country), communication centres, NSA sites and strategic sites. Army, navy, air force, NSA, DIA and add also CIA, while we’re at it. How many are they between militaries and civilians in all? Nobody knows for sure, but official numbers seem to be a bit lask.
Excatly for this reason EU will never be a "superpower" as long as all of strategic positions in most of the EU countries are occupied by the US. They are holding us by our balls.
No offence, thats just my personal observation.
Laworkerbee
11-02-2007, 05:04 PM
Excatly for this reason EU will never be a "superpower" as long as all of strategic positions in most of the EU countries are occupied by the US. They are holding us by our balls.
No offence, thats just my personal observation.
It is time we washed these balls off our hands and left, you can take care of yourselves.
IronFinn
11-02-2007, 05:09 PM
It is time we washed these balls off our hands and left, you can take care of yourselves.
That was a figure of speech ;). But you have to admit that there has never been a superpower/empire/what ever, which would have had troops of a another great power all over its area. All historical empires have guarded their own land.
Laworkerbee
11-02-2007, 05:13 PM
That was a figure of speech ;). But you have to admit that there has never been a superpower/empire/what ever, which would have had troops of a another great power all over its area. All historical empires have guarded their own land.
I agree, I think to have an honest and even relationship we need to be more equal. We share a common history and culture and I have little doubt that the Americans, Australians, Canadians, etc would come back if needed in Europe to prevent war or help with it's security.
IronFinn
11-02-2007, 05:45 PM
I agree, I think to have an honest and even relationship we need to be more equal. We share a common history and culture and I have little doubt that the Americans, Australians, Canadians, etc would come back if needed in Europe to prevent war or help with it's security.
I also agree. If US would push for strong EU it would be for its best interest. True, it would loose in some areas but it would also gain more by getting a strong partner which could watch over US back in case of need. Like you said, we have common history and culture which makes us automatically close.
Mastermind
11-02-2007, 05:57 PM
The American presence in Europe makes the Europeans appear weak..like the Americans are the daddy. If the shoe were on the other foot...I'd be a bit shamed by the arrangement and want the "Daddy" to get out..leave me alone to take care of my own business....And I would strongly support such a move by the Europeans.
Macs.
11-02-2007, 06:06 PM
Umm, I don't see the US troops here in a "Daddy" kind of way. More in a soldier-exchange-program kind of way.
There are german soldiers stationed in the US also, albeit not as much as there are US soldiers in Germany. There are actually german jets flying over your heads with live ordnance .p-)
All part of ze Masterplan.
All part of ze Masterplan.
Yeah exactly hahaha^^
Switek
11-02-2007, 06:22 PM
Yeah exactly hahaha^^
So let me know when you start rule ze USA...
42.8 million of all Americans are of German descent. It has already begun!11!!! p-)
Switek
11-02-2007, 06:28 PM
42.8 million of all Americans are of German descent. It has already begun!11!!! p-)
Pffff.... statistic.... p-)
Lambert58
11-02-2007, 06:53 PM
Go, mighty EU, go forth and ask nicely. If they don't comply, use harsh language. Whatever you do, don't resort to using your military or you'll be no better than the knuckle dragging Americans, which 3 out of 4 dentists surveyed did not prefer for their patients who chew gum.
I was going to reply, but 2sheds hit the nail on the head.
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