"Freedom fries": US official apologizes

[xav]

An American official expressed regret Wednesday for the campaign of vilification of France ( "French bashing") in the United States in the years 2002-2003 caused by the opposition from Paris to the war in Iraq. "I hope that Americans who have renamed French fries (" French fries ") with freedom fries (" freedom fries ") and who emptied bottles of good wine into gutters french realize the foolishness that it was," in Paris said Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs, Nicholas Burns.
"I think now we regret that a real disagreement on a serious subject- war - has given rise to such excesses on the part of many people in our country," said the number three of American diplomacy during a lecture at the American University of Paris.

I appreciate the initiative but he needs to take the word out not only in Paris, but also in the US... especially in the southern states (Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas)

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Mr. Burns can go pound sand up his *ss as far as I'm concerned. I don't need him speaking for us, or apologizing for what was essentially a grass roots movement. We Americans are capable of loving or hating whatever the hell we want without some pinhead government ass kisser speaking for us.

[Lov3ll]

I'm still waiting for them to change the flag of Iowa p-)

[muck]

@2Sheds_Jackson
You sound like a kindergarten child..."But I can hate whosoever I want http://forum.smileys.free.fr/Emotion-Tongue/bleh.gif!"

[JKD]

What an embarrassing period in our history.

It's like waking up after a party and remembering all the stupid drunken things you said the night before.

[MajorTom]

Good news!
Better late than never. That really was a stupid campaign that mezmerized not so talented people.

@2Sheds_Jackson

Speak for your self. Only some fools fell on this hate trap. Majority of USA are very smart and never went for this BS.

[Scourge]

Mr. Burns can go pound sand up his *ss as far as I'm concerned. I don't need him speaking for us, or apologizing for what was essentially a grass roots movement. We Americans are capable of loving or hating whatever the hell we want without some pinhead government ass kisser speaking for us.

Do you realize you are speaking for all the Americans (us)? Should you not have used "me"?

I think it was time for some sort of excuse.

[Occam's Razor]

I gotta say that, regardless of everything else, the "freedom fries" thing was pretty ridiculous. Saying "french fries" doesn't somehow mean that you love France and hate America.

[Gfunk]

sorry Burns, we are gonna continue to hate on the French regardless of Bush's war

[khukuri]

the whole freedomfries thing is on the same level as chavez rants...

[2Sheds_Jackson]

@2Sheds_Jackson
You sound like a kindergarten child..."But I can hate whosoever I want !"

Can't I? Or have you appointed yourself as the arbiter of what I can hate? Please send me the list, I'll be sure to adhere to it.


Good news!
Better late than never. That really was a stupid campaign that mezmerized not so talented people.

@2Sheds_Jackson

Speak for your self.

Oh this is priceless. I make a post which states that I reserve the right to speak for myself, and you respond that no, this government official may speak for all of us...and then you admonish me to...drum roll...speak for myself.

That's exactly what I'm doing. I will speak for myself, and you may delegate your speech to the government if you want.

BTW I don't hate France, nor did I ever use the term "freedom fries" - however I do think France well earned the derision of any thinking American during the Iraq vote. And I'm terribly sorry but I won't be pretending it never happened simply because some government official tells the French that it was all a mistake.

[Chulo]

the whole freedomfries thing is on the same level as chavez rants...
and some anti-bush rants ...(some)

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Do you realize you are speaking for all the Americans (us)? Should you not have used "me"?

You are of course correct. I had assumed that all Americans reserved he right to speak for themselves. But judging from this thread, perhaps I'm alone in that respect. So yes - I don't want him speaking for me - the rest of you are free to free to give up whatever rights you choose.

[Pigdog]

I gotta say that, regardless of everything else, the "freedom fries" thing was pretty ridiculous. Saying "french fries" doesn't somehow mean that you love France and hate America.

So you just hate freedom then?


I tried to order "freedom fries" one time but I couldn't keep from giggling like a retard.

[Lazy Lob]

I, as a Brit, approve and agree fully with 2sheds.

[JKD]

I do think France well earned the derision of any thinking American during the Iraq vote.
Because they were right?

[2Sheds_Jackson]

Because they were right?

Because they said one thing and then did another. Call me crazy, but I generally don't treat my friends like that.

>edit< just for clarity's sake - by "they" I refer to the French government at the time, not France.

[theholeinthedonut]

I remember being on a trip to Paris the day of the last Presidential elections ( the US ones well understood) Everyone was surfing high on a wave of Bush bashing and everybody and his cousin was convinced Dubbya would not be reelected. So at dinner when the lady who owned the place kept on ranting about the stupid and fascist american pigs I couldn't help but ask for ketchup with my "freedom fries"......my only luck was that most of the patrons were typical skinny PC intelectuals of the Quartier Latin...otherwise they would have killed me.......anyhow the lady threw us out and SWMBO was raging mad with me. To make up for my big time fail I invited her to "Pavillon Nouria", the best Lebanese Restaurant you can find alll over Europe. Very very expensive! So this was the first time I used "Freedom fries" and it set me back +/- 300 €, from there on I just called them french fries or frites or Pommes.....I'm no millionaire.
The point of my story is that the stupid bush-bashing and antiamericanism of some europeans is imho as primitive as some yanks are with their french bashing! No difference at all. Both sides should see the good qualities the other have, try to understand and respect the differences and focus on common ennemies.

[Teme]

http://www.billoreilly.com/images/product/promotional/bfmugltblue_large.jpg
http://jitcrunch.cafepress.com/jitcrunch.aspx?bG9hZD1ibGFuayxibGFuazoyNl9GLmpwZ3xsb2FkPUwwLGh0dHA6Ly9pbWFnZXMuY2FmZXByZXNzLmNvbS9pbWFnZS8yMDYxNDI1XzQwMHg0MDAuanBnfHxzY2FsZT1MMCw5OSw3OSxXaGl0ZXxjb21wb3NlPWJsYW5rLEwwLEFkZCwxOTEsMjM1fGNwPXJlc3VsdCxibGFua3xzY2FsZT1yZXN1bHQsMCw0ODAsV2hpdGV8Y29tcHJlc3Npb249OTV8
http://jitcrunch.cafepress.com/jitcrunch.aspx?bG9hZD1ibGFuayxibGFuazoyX0YuanBnfGxvYWQ9TDAsaHR0cDovL2ltYWdlcy5jYWZlcHJlc3MuY29tL2ltYWdlLzIyMzE2NjNfNDAweDQwMC5qcGd8fHNjYWxlPUwwLDE1OSwxMTksV2hpdGV8Y29tcG9zZT1ibGFuayxMMCxBZGQsMTYwLDEyNXxjcD1yZXN1bHQsYmxhbmt8c2NhbGU9cmVzdWx0LDAsNDgwLFdoaXRlfGNvbXByZXNzaW9uPTk1fA==

Priceless collectors items p-)

I did not have any problems to decide what to buy as gifts to my French friends.

Too bad the "Boycott France and spit on their canadian friends" mug is unavailable now. I was planning to stock few as presents for Canadians.

[Macs.]

Americans, French, British... I hate them all.

[xav]

The point of my story is that the stupid bush-bashing and antiamericanism of some europeans is imho as primitive as some yanks are with their french bashing! No difference at all. Both sides should see the good qualities the other have, try to understand and respect the differences and focus on common ennemies.

X2, well said.

On the other hand, and trying to be realistic I am quite certain those kind of stupid behaviors will always be around for it is impossible to educate such stupid people and/or make trolls change their mind...

[vryhpyammoadded]

I agree with 2Sheds and you guys missed his point. Then again I wonder if you all are capable of seeing it at all.

You know 2sheds, free thinking individuals with strong opinions are considered about the greatest threat to these fearful, panicky collective sheeple that there can be. Keep up the fight and don’t ever let these lemmings drive us all over the cliff.

[muttbutt]

Americans, French, British... I hate them all.
Your German it's your job...

Note to self, remove road sign directions to Poland near Macs house

[Rittmester]

Well.. The US hasnt scored that much prestige in the last 4 years. France was the leader of the anti-Iraq campaign: One might conclude they won the "I told you so".

[pgm]

I, as a Brit, approve and agree fully with 2sheds.

X2, as an Italian.

[9mmRifle]

nor did I ever use the term "freedom fries" - however I do think France well earned the derision of any thinking American during the Iraq vote. And I'm terribly sorry but I won't be pretending it never happened simply because some government official tells the French that it was all a mistake.

jog your memory ?


This is right up there with Freedom Fries. Good goin' there Democrat Congress, you've made great strides in erasing legislative idiocy.

[Chulo]

Well.. The US hasnt scored that much prestige in the last 4 years. France was the leader of the anti-Iraq campaign: One might conclude they won the "I told you so".

won the I told you so what? they told people what?

[helomech]

Nicholas Burns is a smart guy but he shouldn't be saying he speaks for all,knowing that there are quite a few people who won't be apologetic for the anti-Frenchism movement



SWMBO was raging mad with me



So this was the first time I used "Freedom fries" and it set me back +/- 300 €,

@holeinthedonut,what does that mean?I'm not familiar with that acronym;and it costs you that much for saying some sh1t like that?Remind me not to go there!

[muck]

Can't I? Or have you appointed yourself as the arbiter of what I can hate? Please send me the list, I'll be sure to adhere to it.
Come on, your level is higher than that, is it not?

[Rittmester]

won the I told you so what? they told people what?

...that invading Iraq was less than a good idea..? perpaps..?

[Mr. JOSHUA]

...that invading Iraq was less than a good idea..? perpaps..?

Why?

Because Chirac would've been caught with his pants down in the same room as Saddam?

Bitogno is cool, other than that, all French people are teh ghey. p-)

[Chulo]

...that invading Iraq was less than a good idea..? perpaps..?
as compared to having Saddam with WMDs? which im sure he would have been happy to use on the Kurds right now, and maybe link up with Iran on their advance weapons plans?

and i may add.. that if things arnt goin as well as they could, it would be the fault of France and other countries that wish not to help, but sit on the side lines and bitch.. with more troops there would be much more progress, but even with the little help, Iraq is slowly progressing, BESIDES all the bitching and finger pointing the other countries are doing

[Firetxmi]

as compared to having Saddam with WMDs?

Because we have clearly found these supposed WMD's.... :roll:

[Chulo]

Because we have clearly found these supposed WMD's.... :roll:

WMDs are not just Nuclear, but also biological .. and there was enough proof of manufacturing of WMDs

or do u really believe that saddam never had any WMDs?

[Firetxmi]

WMDs are not just Nuclear, but also biological .. and there was enough proof of manufacturing of WMDs

or do u really believe that saddam never had any WMDs?

Then where are they?

[Chulo]

Then where are they?

so are u saying Saddam never had any WMDs?

[Mr. JOSHUA]

Some country has those mofos or they're still well hidden some where in Iraq.

[Firetxmi]

so are u saying Saddam never had any WMDs?

I'm saying we never found them, which begs the question- if he had them, where are they?

Our whole [first] reason for going to war was based on these supposed WMD's. We have yet to see our [first] reason for going into Iraq.

[Chulo]

I'm saying we never found them, which begs the question- if he had them, where are they?

Our whole [first] reason for going to war was based on these supposed WMD's. We have yet to see our [first] reason for going into Iraq.

well before we get into that.. i want to know if you believe if he ever had WMDs.

just a simple Yes or No ..

[Firetxmi]

well before we get into that.. i want to know if you believe if he ever had WMDs.

just a simple Yes or No ..

If I remember correctly he did before our first invasion (in the 90's).

[muck]

Some country has those mofos or they're still well hidden some where in Iraq.
Hmm...Considering the time US Forces needed to find Saddam hiding in a simple dirty hole in the ground, I'd say you could be right. If your country is willing to waste another four years in Iraq they will probably find them.

I love it to polarize.

[AlterMega]

Keep your fking apology to yourself.I have nothing to appologize for that wasn't a direct result of the arrogant,smelly Frenchman,Chirac.

[muck]

Keep your fking apology to yourself.I have nothing to appologize for that wasn't a direct result of the arrogant,smelly Frenchman,Chirac.

You mean the souvereign decision of the souvereign president of a souvereign state justified this childish and totally arrogant crap? French Bashing? Boycott of French goods?
I guess you know that the last time somebody called for boycott of goods of another country it was Ahmadinejad?

[Rittmester]

God damn, how do I unsubscribe to this increadably stupid thread!?! This is the worst perception of the real world I ever saw.

[muck]

Via your user control panel? Or the next time you post you simply switch the button below the message window to "Do not subscribe".

[helomech]

God damn, how do I unsubscribe to this increadably stupid thread!?! This is the worst perception of the real world I ever saw.

Stop posting replys on this thread to start with then

http://www.tennis.com/uploadedImages/Your_Game/Sports_Science/2006_04_19_choke.jpg

[Fargin]

Appologizing for your retarted brother stepping on toes, doesn't mean you assume his guilt, but it sure improves the average oppinion of your family.

[Mr. JOSHUA]

Hmm...Considering the time US Forces needed to find Saddam hiding in a simple dirty hole in the ground, I'd say you could be right. If your country is willing to waste another four years in Iraq they will probably find them.

I love it to polarize.

Well just think about it.

A country about the size of TX.

Densely populated urban areas, lots and lots of desert, total disregard for the citizens for Iraq.

They could be anywhere.

I think the only reason Saddam was found was because more people hated him than liked him.

Weapons on the other hand, if they are found are more likely to be quickly wrapped in a blanket and moved quickly, so to speak.

Especially if it a country looking for new or any technology or a country looking to cover their asses.

[SkyUS]

Hey, Mr. Burns while your at it why don't you hop over to Germany and apolagize for the Liberty Cabbage, liberty steak etc. This whole thing is rediculous, but hey since Mr. Burns apologized for the Freedom Fires, I would expect the same from French politicians to apologize for their French fellow citizens for the anti-Americanism and Bush bashing.

[Rittmester]

Via your user control panel? Or the next time you post you simply switch the button below the message window to "Do not subscribe".

Thanks mate. Will do. Good luck down the road. hehe

[muck]

Well just think about it.

A country about the size of TX.

Densely populated urban areas, lots and lots of desert, total disregard for the citizens for Iraq.

They could be anywhere.

I think the only reason Saddam was found was because more people hated him than liked him.

Weapons on the other hand, if they are found are more likely to be quickly wrapped in a blanket and moved quickly, so to speak.

Especially if it a country looking for new or any technology or a country looking to cover their asses.

I was just kidding.

[Jaeger07]

Bahahahah. This thread clearly shows how the mind of true neo-cons work.

It must be great to live in a world where everything imaginary can exist.


For the rest of the people on this planet you look like a bunch of dumb-asses.
Saying saddam had WMD in 03 is as believable as saying the loch ness monster exists on top of the Eifel Tower.

You would believe both if Bush said so wouldnt you?


:)

[AlterMega]

You mean the souvereign decision of the souvereign president of a souvereign state justified this childish and totally arrogant crap? French Bashing? Boycott of French goods?
I guess you know that the last time somebody called for boycott of goods of another country it was Ahmadinejad?

Who cares?It's nothing to be apologizing about.You'll find plenty of America-bashing in Europe,so it sounds to me that you have double standards?A citizens grassroots movement can boycott France all it likes.
Ahmadinejad or any other government official would be quite different-You cant draw parallels.

[Chulo]

For the rest of the people on this planet you look like a bunch of dumb-asses.
Saying saddam had WMD in 03 is as believable as saying the loch ness monster exists on top of the Eifel Tower.



:)

and if you believe that Saddam had WMD's prior to 2003 the decided that it was a good idea to stop researching and just scrap the billions he spent on it because he was being told to stop by the UN, may need to think beyond the black and white that the liberal media feeds u.

[Aztec Eagle]

Who likes the FRENCH?? DOES ANYONE?

Im Mexican and i dont like them,why would the U.S. apologize that B.S. even if you were wrong to opologize to them makes no sense.

I prefer the Canucks there nice people.


Im glad that we in Mexico kick there butts in... cinco de mayo.

[muck]

Who cares? It's nothing to be apologizing about.
Well, that's a mix of Bolton and Patton and not the attitude of the true global player the US should be.


You'll find plenty of America-bashing in Europe,

I guess that's the conclusion you have drawn from some European governments rejecting orders of the White House? But thats simply wrong, for a large majority of the people here the US of A are still a lodestar. Furthermore, we did not boycott US goods or turned McDonalds restaurants down here, did we?


so it sounds to me that you have double standards?
That's the impression I get from you.


A citizens grassroots movement can boycott France all it likes.
Ahmadinejad or any other government official would be quit different-You cant draw parallels.
Uhm, as far as I can remember the call for boycott lead to the burning down of several danish embassies and a billion dollar damage for the food industry.


Who likes the FRENCH?? DOES ANYONE?
Idiot.


Im Mexican and i dont like them,why would the U.S. apologize that B.S. even if you were wrong to opologize to them makes no sense.
I'm glad to see that this posting makes no sense.


I prefer the Canucks there nice people.
French can nice people, too, as well as Italians and Mongolians and whosoever else...Are you really 34 years old?!

[Macs.]

Who likes the FRENCH?? DOES ANYONE?

Im Mexican and i dont like them,why would the U.S. apologize that B.S. even if you were wrong to opologize to them makes no sense.

I prefer the Canucks there nice people.


Im glad that we in Mexico kick there butts in... cinco de mayo.

How old are you again ?

Don't you feel a bit embrassed ? Atleast a bit ?

[Mr. JOSHUA]

I was just kidding.

Then quote your sarcasm damnit!


Bahahahah. This thread clearly shows how the mind of true neo-cons work.

It must be great to live in a world where everything imaginary can exist.


For the rest of the people on this planet you look like a bunch of dumb-asses.
Saying saddam had WMD in 03 is as believable as saying the loch ness monster exists on top of the Eifel Tower.

You would believe both if Bush said so wouldnt you?


:)

Yes I would because I love Bush.

I have a heart tattooed on my ass with the words I love Bush in it.

[Firetxmi]

Yes I would because I love Bush.

I have a heart tattooed on my ass with the words I love Bush in it.

I knew it... Seriously...

[Fargin]

Then quote your sarcasm damnit!



Yes I would because I love Bush.

I have a heart tattooed on my ass with the words I love Bush in it.
In or on and is there a difference?

[shocker1]

My God who cares anyway? I always called them fries anyhow. As far as Iraq let's just say some on the UNSC did not want the covers pulled back so to speak. WMD's where? Destroyed by war, lack of maintenance, destroyed by Saddam and inspectors then of course something was hauled away too. If you think that did not go on just before the war you are deluding yourself. However good luck finding that. Back on topic I am not sorry, I thought it was cool to rile up Europeans over some damn sliced potatoes made golden crispy in hot oil.

[Mr. JOSHUA]

My God who cares anyway? I always called them fries anyhow. As far as Iraq let's just say some on the UNSC did not want the covers pulled back so to speak. WMD's where? Destroyed by war, lack of maintenance, destroyed by Saddam and inspectors then of course something was hauled away too. If you think that did not go on just before the war you are deluding yourself. However good luck finding that. Back on topic I am not sorry, I thought it was cool to rile up Europeans over some damn sliced potatoes made golden crispy in hot oil.

With chili and cheese?

[Mr. JOSHUA]

In or on and is there a difference?

On is accross the entire heart.

In is in the boundries of the heart.

[Jaeger07]

My God who cares anyway? I always called them fries anyhow. As far as Iraq let's just say some on the UNSC did not want the covers pulled back so to speak. WMD's where? Destroyed by war, lack of maintenance, destroyed by Saddam and inspectors then of course something was hauled away too. If you think that did not go on just before the war you are deluding yourself. However good luck finding that. Back on topic I am not sorry, I thought it was cool to rile up Europeans over some damn sliced potatoes made golden crispy in hot oil.

WHat about 2001 pre 9/11? huh? HUH? :)

http://www.youtube.com/v/YsVKDY74C0g&rel

[Chulo]

WHat about 2001 pre 9/11? huh? HUH? :)


what does it matter, you are so immersed in your anti-bush and anti-iraq war that other valid reasons and questions are totally ignored. There are good points and bad points, but you wont listen or answer the questions and rather just go on the negative.

[chas]

Did someone already mention the idiots who wanted to organize a boicot on burritos and tacos for Zapatero pulling out of Iraq? Hahahaha!!

[Jaeger07]

what does it matter, you are so immersed in your anti-bush and anti-iraq war that other valid reasons and questions are totally ignored. There are good points and bad points, but you wont listen or answer the questions and rather just go on the negative.

That is what I call a winning argument. Go cry...

[helomech]

what does it matter, you are so immersed in your anti-bush and anti-iraq war that other valid reasons and questions are totally ignored. There are good points and bad points, but you wont listen or answer the questions and rather just go on the negative.

Quoted for truth

[theholeinthedonut]

@holeinthedonut,what does that mean?I'm not familiar with that acronym;and it costs you that much for saying some sh1t like that?Remind me not to go there!

SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed.......the alternative dinner at the posh Lebanese restaurant was so expensive..it's just around the corner from the Pont d'Alma and the American Embassy...I had to make up with my Lady for getting evicted from the first place because of my big mouth.

[Chulo]

That is what I call a winning argument. Go cry...
why dont you answer the harder questions about WMD's and Saddams intents with the middle east and his aggressive stance?

The fact that he had WMD's and USED it on people and that no matter what other sanctions or actions taken by the UN , he kept on working on improving his WMDs research and is on record on not hesitating to use any weapon that was in his control.

and if you believe that after he had the WMDs and gassed thousands of people, and worked actively to get nuclear weapons.

so if the war didnt happen and if he wasnt removed. how do u think the present middle east with be?

i see a few things that could/most likely have happed
mass killing of the kurds
War with Iran - or - collaboration with Iran and two states with Nuclear weapons that want to use them willingly.


so before u go on bashing something on a 20/20 hindsight, and can only bitch, how about getting over it, and try to make the best of the situation and help it instead of hampering that progress towards "peace" that you want so much.

[shocker1]

WHat about 2001 pre 9/11? huh? HUH? :)

What about it? Youtube clips and little smarty replies do not constitute a good argument. The possibility of weapons did exist and could have if they were actually there been hauled off by connected Baathists. Not saying they did but anyone looking at the whole Iraq situation objectively would also find it a logical possibility.

There is no evidence of this and I am one who is inclined to say there were none. However my collection of brain cells tries to look past the politics at the realties that could have been in place. Where applying engineering thought to any problem you assess all logical possibilities. Remote possibilities are not illogical.

[Elemental666]

A fried potato thread turned serious. Dear god. FRIED POTATOES. Who the **** cares. Just eat them. It's delicious.

[xav]

OMG why did I created this thread in the first place?
I expected any outcome but this one.

This is BS and getting out of hand.
Can a mod lock the thread please? Before it turns into a stupid flame war 2003-era style...

[shocker1]

Well what the hell did you expect with the subject? Glad handing and back slapping over why the term arose in the first place? You opened this can of worms, enjoy it.

[Jaeger07]

What about it? Youtube clips and little smarty replies do not constitute a good argument.

C'mon, when condi rice says pre 9/11 that saddam is no threat and has no WMD capabilities, and then post 9/11 says the exact opposite - its a friggin paradox and makes for a darn good argument.



The possibility of weapons did exist and could have if they were actually there been hauled off by connected Baathists. Not saying they did but anyone looking at the whole Iraq situation objectively would also find it a logical possibility.

There is no evidence of this and I am one who is inclined to say there were none. However my collection of brain cells tries to look past the politics at the realties that could have been in place. Where applying engineering thought to any problem you assess all logical possibilities. Remote possibilities are not illogical.

Nonetheless its pretty far fetched, as you yourself point out. And not, by any standards, enough to go to war for. You lost thousands of soldiers and trillions of dollars as well as international support in that war. Would you really go to war on that basis with those things at risk.

...

[shocker1]

C'mon, when condi rice says pre 9/11 that saddam is no htreat and has no WMD capabilities, and then post 9/11 says the exact opposite - its a friggin paradox and makes for a darn good argument.
...
I never said either way whether the war was right or wrong just how I see it over the 12 years of Iraq intervention. Condi Rice is hardly the credible source since you will not agree with the flip side of her flop. I do not like her ways myself.

[JKD]

Bahahahah. This thread clearly shows how the mind of true neo-cons work.

It must be great to live in a world where everything imaginary can exist.
:)

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4293/neoconyr8.jpg

[Bulletproof]

To protest against this thread, i'll throw my strawberries from California in the street and crush them with my car.

[Kak]

Hey, Mr. Burns while your at it why don't you hop over to Germany and apolagize for the Liberty Cabbage, liberty steak etc. This whole thing is rediculous, but hey since Mr. Burns apologized for the Freedom Fires, I would expect the same from French politicians to apologize for their French fellow citizens for the anti-Americanism and Bush bashing.
We bashed them for opposing an aggressive war based on false pretenses, they bashed us for carrying out this action which ended up unleashing such an incredible disaster that anyone who knew anything about Islam, Iraqi demographics, and the history of the country and region would have been able to foresee. Not quite the same thing.

Using an opposing variation of how 2sheds put it; any thinking American would have opposed this war from the start.

[Chulo]

Nonetheless its pretty far fetched, as you yourself point out. And not, by any standards, enough to go to war for. You lost thousands of soldiers and trillions of dollars as well as international support in that war. Would you really go to war on that basis with those things at risk.

...
so u are saying you would feel safer with Saddam in power with WMD capabilities right next to Iran with nuclear weapons and WMDs of their own.

Than the situation right now, where there is only one major WMD threat.

and, now that the war has been started, what are the other countries doing to help bring peace faster? How about they stop bitching and making the job harder and lend a helping hand, or shutup and let them finish it faster

[Jaeger07]

so u are saying you would feel safer with Saddam in power with WMD capabilities right next to Iran with nuclear weapons and WMDs of their own.


once again: What friggin WMDs? You're so far off into to neo-con-dream-land its hard to not laugh.

And concerning iran: Your own intel. says iranian nukes is years away.

...

Please tell me where are the W_M_Ds ?

[Chulo]

once again: What friggin WMDs? You're so far off into to neo-con-dream-land its hard to not laugh.

And concerning iran: Your own intel. says iranian nukes is years away.

...

Please tell me where are the W_M_Ds ?

SO u dont think Saddam ever had WMDs? you must be so totally into the retoric that u dont look at the facts


Program development 1960s - 1980s

1959 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1959) — 17 August (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_17) USSR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USSR) and Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq) wrote an agreement about building an atomic power station.
1968 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968) — a Russian supplied IRT-2000 research reactor atomic power station together with a number of other facilities that could be used for radioisotope production was built close to Baghdad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad).[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#_note-4)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#_note-5)
1975 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975) — Saddam Hussein (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein) arrived in Moscow in April. He asked about building an advanced model of an atomic power station. Moscow would approve, but only if the station was regulated by the International Atomic Energy Agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Atomic_Energy_Agency). Iraq refused.
After 6 months Paris agreed to sell 72 kg of 93% Uranium[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#_note-6) and built the atomic power station without International Atomic Energy Agency (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Atomic_Energy_Agency) control at a price of $3 billion.
In the early 1970s, Saddam Hussein ordered the creation of a clandestine nuclear weapons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon) program.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#_note-7) Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs were assisted by a wide variety of firms and governments in the 1970s and 1980s.[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#_note-8)[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#_note-9)[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#_note-10)[12] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#_note-iraq_wmd_2004_chap5)[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#_note-11) As part of Project 922 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Project_922&action=edit), German firms such as Karl Kobe helped build Iraqi chemical weapons facilities such as laboratories, bunkers, an administrative building, and first production buildings in the early 1980s under the cover of a pesticide plant. Other German firms sent 1,027 tons of precursors of mustard gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_gas), sarin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin), tabun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabun_%28nerve_agent%29), and tear gasses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tear_gas) in all. This work allowed Iraq to produce 150 tons of mustard agent and 60 tons of Tabun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabun_%28nerve_agent%29) in 1983 and 1984 respectively, continuing throughout the decade. Five other German firms supplied equipment to manufacture botulin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botulin) toxin and mycotoxin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycotoxin) for germ warfare. In 1988, German engineers presented centrifuge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifuge) data that helped Iraq expand its nuclear weapons program. Laboratory equipment and other information was provided, involving many German engineers. All told, 52% of Iraq's international chemical weapon equipment was of German origin. The State Establishment for Pesticide Production (SEPP) ordered culture media and incubators from Germany's Water Engineering Trading.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#_note-12)
France (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France) built Iraq’s Osirak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osirak) nuclear reactor in the late 1970s. Israel claimed that Iraq was getting close to building nuclear weapons, and so bombed it in 1981. Later, a French company built a turnkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnkey) factory which helped make nuclear fuel. France also provided glass-lined reactors, tanks, vessels, and columns used for the production of chemical weapons. Around 21% of Iraq’s international chemical weapon equipment was French. Strains of dual-use biological material also helped advance Iraq’s biological warfare program.
Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy) gave Iraq plutonium extraction facilities that advanced Iraq’s nuclear weapon program. 75,000 shells and rockets designed for chemical weapon use also came from Italy. Between 1979 and 1982 Italy gave depleted, natural, and low-enriched uranium. Swiss companies aided in Iraq’s nuclear weapons development in the form of specialized presses, milling machines, grinding machines, electrical discharge machines, and equipment for processing uranium to nuclear weapon grade. Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil) secretly aided the Iraqi nuclear weapon program by supplying natural uranium dioxide between 1981 and 1982 without notifying the IAEA. About 100 tons of mustard gas also came from Brazil.
The United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) exported $500 million of dual use exports to Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq) that were approved by the Commerce department. Among them were advanced computers, some of which were used in Iraq’s nuclear program. The non-profit American Type Culture Collection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Type_Culture_Collection) and the Centers for Disease Control sold or sent biological samples to Iraq under Saddam Hussein up until 1989, which Iraq claimed it needed for medical research. These materials included anthrax (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthrax), West Nile virus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Nile_virus) and botulism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botulism), as well as Brucella melitensis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brucella_melitensis), which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium_perfringens), which causes gas gangrene. Some of these materials were used for Iraq's biological weapons research program, while others were used for vaccine development.[15] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#_note-13)
The United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) paid for a chlorine factory that was intended to be used for manufacturing mustard gas.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#_note-14) The government secretly gave the arms company Matrix Churchill (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrix_Churchill) permission to supply parts for the Iraqi supergun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_supergun), precipitating the Arms-to-Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-to-Iraq) affair when it became known.
Many other countries contributed as well; since Iraq's nuclear program in the early 1980s was officially viewed internationally as for power production, not weapons, there were no UN prohibitions against it. An Austrian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria) company gave Iraq calutrons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calutrons) for enriching uranium. The nation also provided heat exchangers, tanks, condensers, and columns for the Iraqi chemical weapons infrastructure, 16% of the international sales. Singapore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore) gave 4,515 tons of precursors for VX, sarin, tabun, and mustard gasses to Iraq. The Dutch gave 4,261 tons of precursors for sarin, tabun, mustard, and tear gasses to Iraq. Egypt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt) gave 2,400 tons of tabun and sarin precursors to Iraq and 28,500 tons of weapons designed for carrying chemical munitions. India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India) gave 2,343 tons of precursors to VX, tabun, Sarin, and mustard gasses. Luxembourg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg) gave Iraq 650 tons of mustard gas precursors. Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain) gave Iraq 57,500 munitions designed for carrying chemical weapons. In addition, they provided reactors, condensers, columns and tanks for Iraq’s chemical warfare program, 4.4% of the international sales. China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China) provided 45,000 munitions designed for chemical warfare. Portugal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal) provided yellowcake between 1980 and 1982. Niger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger) provided yellowcake in 1981.



Chemical weapon attacks

Location Weapon Used Date Casualties Haij Umran Mustard August 1983 fewer than 100 Iranian/Kurdish Panjwin Mustard October-November 1983 3,001 Iranian/Kurdish Majnoon Island Mustard February-March 1984 2,500 Iranians al-Basrah Tabun March 1984 50-100 Iranians Hawizah Marsh Mustard & Tabun March 1985 3,000 Iranians al-Faw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Faw) Mustard & Tabun February 1986 8,000 to 10,000 Iranians Um ar-Rasas Mustard December 1986 1,000s Iranians al-Basrah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Basrah) Mustard & Tabun April 1987 5,000 Iranians Sumar/Mehran Mustard & nerve agent October 1987 3,000 Iranians Halabjah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabjah) Mustard & nerve agent March 1988 7,000s Kurdish/Iranian al-Faw Mustard & nerve agent April 1988 1,000s Iranians Fish Lake Mustard & nerve agent May 1988 100s or 1,000s Iranians Majnoon Islands Mustard & nerve agent June 1988 100s or 1,000s Iranians South-central border Mustard & nerve agent July 1988 100s or 1,000s Iranians an-Najaf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An-Najaf) -
Karbala (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karbala) area Nerve agent & CS March 1991 Shi’a casualties not known

https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/chap5.html

http://www.iraqwatch.org/wmd/index.html Iraq's Nuclear, Chemical and Biological Weapons Programs


http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB80/ Iraq and Weapons of Mass Destruction

just to name a few... Get a clue, he had WMDs prior to the war, and after the war they wernt there, and THAT is the issue.

[TR1]

You know, Im quite sure the French hardly give a **** that some half-brained people here in the States use moronic and childish terms such as "freedom fries"....however I'm sure they are quite happy they arn't stuck in that ****-hole of a war in the middle east.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

jog your memory ?

You know, I had a creeping suspicion that somebody was going to stoop to being that pedantic as a means of coming out on top. Obviously I did not literally mean that I had never used words "Freedom" and "Fries" one after the other, to form the term "Freedom Fries". In fact, since I used that expression in the very sentence I claimed to have never used it, I had assumed that was self-evident. But no, apparently not. This is the level of discourse we're reduced to. Therefore I will spell it out for those of you riding the short bus:

I, 2Sheds_Jackson, have never made the conscious decision to use the term "Freedom Fries" as a mechanism to demonstrate my displeasure, protest, or hatred of the French people or government stemming from their actions during the run up to the vote at the United Nations regarding the use of force in Iraq, when referring to thinly sliced potato slivers which are then deep fried in animal or vegetable oil heated to approximately 357 degrees F, and then served at room temperature.

Jesus H f*cking Christ on a polo pony what is wrong with you people?


Come on, your level is higher than that, is it not?

No, not really.

The biggest winner in the "I told you so" department isn't France. It's Iran. They've watched and learned - and they've played the fractured West like a fiddle. When they have their nuke, and spark an new nuclear arms race in the region I do hope France savors that sweet moment when the US inspectors finally concluded there were no stockpiles of WMD found.