Gift patrols?

[SiFiOn]

AL ANBAR, Iraq(May 11, 2004) -- Marines train for combat patrols, reconnaissance patrols and mechanized patrols. But Marines from 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines tried something different in Iraq.

They conducted a "gift patrol."

Marines from the battalion's Weapons Company participated in a joint patrol with a group of local Iraqi policemen May 11, handing out gifts purchased from local merchants to help instill faith in the Coalition Forces.

The gift-patrol covered nearly a half dozen struggling communities throughout the region and was supplied with products purchased from local storeowners in need of a little help.

"We tried a different approach," said 1st Lt. Will Haag, Weapons Company's executive officer, from Seattle.

The company's everyday routine consists of two to three night and day patrols in search of improvised explosive devices and rooting out terrorists. The gift patrol allowed for a new approach to accomplishing the same task.

"This was a change in pace," said Cpl. Yancy Green, from Baton Rouge, La. "A lot of these people have grown to not like us. Once we started giving them gifts though, they changed a bit. I think that's why we're out here. The process is slow, but we are changing their hearts and minds."

The goal, according to Haag, was to help sway some opinions of the locals, who may or may not have been turned against Coalition Forces.

The patrol was the first of its kind in the battalion, according to Haag.

"This was the first time this group has done this and I'm sure the battalion as a whole," Green said. "We interact with people a lot here, but not often in a positive way such as this.

"We went in and bought goods from store owners who were anything but nice," Haag explained. "If they gave us a thumbs down or something we'd stop and buy from them. We want to give back to the community."

The Marines handed out 15 large black garbage bags full of items ranging from plastic storage containers to hygiene supplies. The items were passed out the same way they were purchased. If Marines felt unwelcome, they stopped to talk to the Iraqis, handing out the gifts.

"It's all right helping out," said Lance Cpl. Nicholas Brown, a machine gunner for the company from Dallas. "This is what we're here to do. The more we help them and they begin to take care of themselves, the faster we're out of here."

"This was an attempt to convince the people that we are here for their support," Haag added. "We want them to know Iraqi solutions can solve Iraqi problems."

The money used to purchase the items was funded by the battalion, which uses funds to improve life for local Iraqis.

"I don't know how often this will happen," Haag said. "Our number one priority is security, but we will likely be out here more often distributing goods and interacting with the locals in a more positive manner."


Maybe not as exciting as a combat patrol, but this is the way to win this war overthere, in my opinion.

source: http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/ad983156332a819185256cb600677af3/4a181a3e2729ac8f85256e9300487570?OpenDocument

[Obergefreiter]

Not that I think this sort of thing should not be done. But soldiers are trained to fight, kill and destroy. Not deliver pizza.

Someone else should be doing this, the soldiers should be fighting. The only exception I could see to this was if they were "off duty" and voluteered for the work.

[SiFiOn]

Not that I think this sort of thing should not be done. But soldiers are trained to fight, kill and destroy. Not deliver pizza.

Someone else should be doing this, the soldiers should be fighting. The only exception I could see to this was if they were "off duty" and voluteered for the work.

So, who would you like to do this kind of work?
It's important for the military to gain support among the civil-population in Iraq. (Not only Iraq btw, this kind of aproach is also used in Bosnia and it has helped a lot). By doing this kind of work, the Iraqi's will not see the coalition as an occupation-power, but more as someone who could help them.

[Argyll]

Not that I think this sort of thing should not be done. But soldiers are trained to fight, kill and destroy. Not deliver pizza.

Someone else should be doing this, the soldiers should be fighting. The only exception I could see to this was if they were "off duty" and voluteered for the work.


You never heard of "Hearts and Minds"?

[Obergefreiter]

Not that I think this sort of thing should not be done. But soldiers are trained to fight, kill and destroy. Not deliver pizza.

Someone else should be doing this, the soldiers should be fighting. The only exception I could see to this was if they were "off duty" and voluteered for the work.

So, who would you like to do this kind of work?
It's important for the military to gain support among the civil-population in Iraq. (Not only Iraq btw, this kind of aproach is also used in Bosnia and it has helped a lot). By doing this kind of work, the Iraqi's will not see the coalition as an occupation-power, but more as someone who could help them.

I thought it was clear by my post that I would not like to do this. ;)

[scm77]

The soldiers should be doing more of this. It makes alot better impression of people then kicking down doors.

[Obergefreiter]

Not that I think this sort of thing should not be done. But soldiers are trained to fight, kill and destroy. Not deliver pizza.

Someone else should be doing this, the soldiers should be fighting. The only exception I could see to this was if they were "off duty" and voluteered for the work.


You never heard of "Hearts and Minds"?

Read the second pargraph. I did not say that someone shouldn't be doing this, but I just think soldiers should not do it.

I was not trained to deliver pizza, I was trained to defend my country. I was trained to do that by destroying the enemy, not by handing out gifts. This is war for the policly correct.

Hearts and minds is crap anyway. The people from the country being pacified already are polerized one way or another. Once the troops leave they will be inundated with information from the local media. After time, it will have very likely all been for nothing. The US will not be there forever, this will spread to another area where the troops will be needed or a hundred other posible outcomes IMO.

The average person simply wants to be left alone. If they want to fight, this won't stop them. If they don't want to fight, it won't change anything to those who do.

My $.02

[Argyll]

Read the second pargraph. I did not say that someone shouldn't be doing this, but I just think soldiers should not do it.


It's a fair point,but soldiers are usually the only ones there in a warzone/conflict.

Hearts and Minds worked very well for the British in the past,and this was carried out by Soldiers,not just any soldiers but members of the Special Air service.

It's not just about handing out Pizza mate,a simple medical task can make the difference between life and death,sure soldiers are trained to kill,but they also possess other charachteristics which makes them ideal for this task.........compassion.
Who would you have do this job instead of the soldier,and what would make them more apt for doing the Job?,who would be required to act as protection for them?
From my point the soldiers are there,and not all soldiers are trained to fight,medics ,engineers ,craftsmen etc........plenty opportunities to apply their trades to assist those in need,instead of just being there to kill everyone!

[MapleLeafInfantry]

Not that I think this sort of thing should not be done. But soldiers are trained to fight, kill and destroy. Not deliver pizza.

Someone else should be doing this, the soldiers should be fighting. The only exception I could see to this was if they were "off duty" and voluteered for the work.


You never heard of "Hearts and Minds"?

Read the second pargraph. I did not say that someone shouldn't be doing this, but I just think soldiers should not do it.

I was not trained to deliver pizza, I was trained to defend my country. I was trained to do that by destroying the enemy, not by handing out gifts. This is war for the policly correct.

Hearts and minds is crap anyway. The people from the country being pacified already are polerized one way or another. Once the troops leave they will be inundated with information from the local media. After time, it will have very likely all been for nothing. The US will not be there forever, this will spread to another area where the troops will be needed or a hundred other posible outcomes IMO.

The average person simply wants to be left alone. If they want to fight, this won't stop them. If they don't want to fight, it won't change anything to those who do.

My $.02

the soldiers should definatly be the ones doing because they are so many times on the recieving end of the insurgents "gifts".. If this can make someone think twice, i'd rather have them think twice about shooting at a soldier then a gift giver who you never see...

mapes

[Sabre]

It's very important that soldiers be the ones who do this.

It shows the Iraqi people that the soldiers who occasionally kill their relations/friends in exchanges of fire with militants are there to help them.

By showing that they will spend their own money on local businesses and then give free gifts to people who need them, this portrays another side of the coalition soldier to the Iraqi populace. It shows that they are human, that they are concerned for the average Iraqi's well being and if nothing else it means that the Iraqis are finally seeing some benefit (however small) of having foreign soldiers in their lands.

Put it this way, you say that the only purpose of a soldier is to 'fight, kill and destroy'. If that were the case and you had 150,000 of these mindless killers walking around YOUR country, even if they only occasionally killed some people, would you see any purpose in having them around?

Using Argyll's point about the Regiment and its hearts and minds campaigns as an example, there were at least three drawn-out actions against rebel insurgents that were won by using the power of trust over the power of the gun.

1. Malaya, the SAS befriended and gave aid to the local tribes who in turn gave them information on the CT's locations/activities. The regiment only killed very few of its enemies, but the change in allegiance of the locals and the overriding presence they had caused the CTs to give up.

2. Borneo. Again, the regiment gave support and aid to the indigenous people and won their trust. the locals then provided them with intelligence on the 'Indo's' (Indonesian's) movements and enabled the boys to inflict serious damage on their supply routes and FOBs.

3. Aden/Oman. The regiment prioritised its actions placing medical aid, supporting agriculture, education, road building etc above military action. The result was the entire country pulled itself out of the Sha'ria induced middle-ages and into the 20th century and large numbers of the enemy changed sides to fight in pro-government units. Two interesting points were that these units intitially were given uniforms and boots, but it became clear that the reason many had joined the rebels was the attraction of the nomad-warrior lifestyle. So the regiment training team had to allow for traditional dress, the use of older weapons and bare feet! The second point was that many of the regiment blokes had spent so long teaching themselves and then the locals how to correctly plow their fields, few of them wanted to give up the 'water-buffalo and paddy field' they had grown used to. Several of them, apparently, came back after they left the regiment.

[Obergefreiter]

Well guys, I mostly disagree, but I am not here to start a flame war so I will step out of this one.

I stand by my view, but understand it is not the same as the rest of you have.

There has been enough flaming around here lately. I will stop my decent before this one turns the samw way. :|

[California Joe]

You have a point pal and believe me most of the guys here that have been shot at would probably agree that soldiers are there to kill the enemy. But this is the type of conflict where making friends with people that may be thinking about shooting you tomorrow is a good and intelligent idea. Fighting smart. More friends, less snipers. Sometimes it's the little things. Warriors today are not allowed to be Conan the Barbarian.

[Argyll]

Well guys, I mostly disagree, but I am not here to start a flame war so I will step out of this one.

I stand by my view, but understand it is not the same as the rest of you have.

There has been enough flaming around here lately. I will stop my decent before this one turns the samw way. :|

Oberg,no need to ,but what we have given you is clear examples of Hearts and Minds at work,and where they have been sucsessful,you're not flaming,but you're not offering many alternatives.

Whats the Austrian approach to Unconventional warfare?How do the Austrian Special Forces work with Irregular forces Forces behind enemy lines?
It might not be your chain of thought here,but say you were in an SF team deployed behind enemy lines and the mission highly depended on the teams ability to interact with the indiginious/irregular forces,would you say that this was fundamentaly wrong?,and not contribute the skills your Country has trained you up on ,perhaps the only member of the team who is fluent in that language?The whole mission of you being able to interpret the situation so that the Mission can be completed depends on you being able to reach into the "Hearts and Minds" of these you are there to assist?
How can this be wrong Obergefrieter?
Who is then in a better position to do this work?

[Pooga]

Talk about an edgy situation…handing a gift over to a wizzened old grandma while the Marine around the corner checks for snipers…

You're a sitting duck, is the problem.

[Tane Angle]

I agree, I think it's extremely important that the soldiers do such things. It shows that they are not just occupiers.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[SEALInTheMaking]

This is an excellent idea. I agree that it needs to be the soldiers doing this. The soldiers are the ones that the Iraqis dislike. By doing this, they're showing the people that they are human, and they genuinly want to help.

[Obergefreiter]

Well guys, I mostly disagree, but I am not here to start a flame war so I will step out of this one.

I stand by my view, but understand it is not the same as the rest of you have.

There has been enough flaming around here lately. I will stop my decent before this one turns the samw way. :|

Oberg,no need to ,but what we have given you is clear examples of Hearts and Minds at work,and where they have been sucsessful,you're not flaming,but you're not offering many alternatives.

Whats the Austrian approach to Unconventional warfare?How do the Austrian Special Forces work with Irregular forces Forces behind enemy lines?
It might not be your chain of thought here,but say you were in an SF team deployed behind enemy lines and the mission highly depended on the teams ability to interact with the indiginious/irregular forces,would you say that this was fundamentaly wrong?,and not contribute the skills your Country has trained you up on ,perhaps the only member of the team who is fluent in that language?The whole mission of you being able to interpret the situation so that the Mission can be completed depends on you being able to reach into the "Hearts and Minds" of these you are there to assist?
How can this be wrong Obergefrieter?
Who is then in a better position to do this work?

I am in no position to say who else is out there to do the work. I am sure there is someone there to do it, but I admit that I do not know enough about this part to offer any ideas.

I have been involved in a somewhat similar situation before about 14 years ago. I was told by my Capatin at the time "We are not here to make friends, just do your job so we can all go home." We were more along the lines of "advisors" (so they could liberate themselves) than "invaders" or "liberators", so it was different in that respect, but we were still not wanted there by most. We avoided the population most of the time and let the civilians fend for themselves when the time came.

Yes I am being vague as the last time I was clear about it elsewhere it started a huge flame war as it would here.

Civilians, IMO, were / are not part of what the soldiers should be worried about. Again, just my opinion.

[Argyll]

Are you refering to the Balkans here?

I understand and respect your wish here,the fact you are being civil means there are no inflammatory comments,and none by yourself will be percieved as such,not on my accounts anyway.

[Scrim]

Its also good for the Marines. Its a nice break from either the horror of combat, or the tedium of day to day camp life, and all the bull**** that comes with that. I was envolved with the Toys for Tots program for ten years, and I got a tremendous ammount of feel goodiness from that. Obergefreiter has a point though Id still rather be breaking **** though!

[SiFiOn]

Its also good for the Marines. Its a nice break from either the horror of combat, or the tedium of day to day camp life, and all the bull**** that comes with that. I was envolved with the Toys for Tots program for ten years, and I got a tremendous ammount of feel goodiness from that. Obergefreiter has a point though Id still rather be breaking **** though!

He certainly has a point, but we are trained to execute a job effective, whether we like it or not. In wars like this (the ones that could end up in guerilla-warfare) it isn't effective to kill and destroy. Do not forget that the war actually ended and the coalition forces are there to provide a safe and secure environment for the people over there. They can't do this in the common military way, they have to be aware of their environment. Certainly nowadays where every accident is shown in the press and a fault made by one soldier can cost a minister his job...
I think this is the most effective way to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.

[SiFiOn]

A related topic:

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15020