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View Full Version : Lufthansa banned from Russian airspace then bow under pressure



xav
11-02-2007, 06:15 PM
MOSCOW/FRANKFURT (*******) - Russia said on Friday it would allow the cargo unit of German airline Lufthansa to use Russian airspace for another two weeks, easing tensions in a dispute about fly-over rules.

Russia's Transport Ministry said in a statement that it had decided to extend temporary permission for Lufthansa Cargo to fly over Russia until Nov 15.

"The Russian side has taken a decision to extend until Nov 15, 2007 temporary permission for flights by Lufthansa Cargo until the official confirmation by the German side of the selection of an airport for transit landings," it said.

Germany and Russia locked horns after Lufthansa's freight carrier said on Wednesday it had been stopped from flying through Russian airspace.

Lufthansa has been resisting pressure from Russia to move its regional cargo hub to an airport in Siberia from Astana in Kazakhstan amid a dispute with Moscow over the use of Russian airspace.

The Russian transport ministry said German aviation authorities had confirmed their readiness to consider the possibility of transit landings in Krasnoyarsk and to inform Russia of their decision by Nov 7.

"Moving the hub to Krasnoyarsk is not a realistic option because the infrastructure there does not meet the necessary conditions," a spokesman for the German carrier said on Friday, before the Russian announcement.

For example, flights could not land there if there is thick fog, he said.

Lufthansa is seeking help from politicians to resolve the standoff. The European Commission has said it was following the matter closely but was not yet involved as it was a bilateral matter.

The ban has raised fears in Germany that Russia might be employing strong-arm tactics similar to those it has used in gas price disputes with Ukraine, which resulted in supply disruptions to western Europe.

A spokeswoman for the German Foreign Ministry said Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier had twice spoken to his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov about the dispute and a transport ministry spokeswoman said officials in Berlin and Moscow were in intensive talks.

"The German government appeals to the Russian authorities to allow German cargo flights over its air space again as soon as possible," government spokesman Ulrich Wilhelm told a regular news conference in Berlin.

"I believe that the talks between Germany and Russia are making good progress and I expect them to come to a positive result," he added.

Asked whether Germany was considering asking the European Commission to intervene, the Transport Ministry spokeswoman said: "We think it can be resolved at the national level."

The exact reason for the ban, which Lufthansa Cargo says affects all its flights to and from Astana, is unclear. Russia's aviation transport agency has played down talk of a conflict.

Lufthansa Cargo uses Astana -- its second-biggest cargo airport after Frankfurt -- as a connection point for flights to southeast Asia. The company is diverting flights around Russian airspace, leading to longer flying times and greater fuel use.

http://uk.*******.com/article/worldNews/idUKL0215617820071102

Germany agrees to move Lufthansa cargo hub to Russia

Germany agrees to move Lufthansa cargo hub to Russia

12 hours ago

FRANKFURT (AFP) — Germany has accepted the transfer of Lufthansa Cargo's central Asian hub from Kazakhstan to Siberia, bowing to pressure from Moscow after it blocked the carrier from flying over Russian territory.

"Discussions with the Russian transport ministry continue. At this time, it is above all a question of a timetable for the transfer of Lufthansa Cargo towards the Russian airport of Krasnoyarsk," Transport Minister Wolfgang Tiefensee said Friday in a statement.

The announcement signalled a possible end to a dispute that had seen Lufthansa cargo planes forced to make a costly detour around Russian airspace en route to the group's current Asian refueling and distribution point at Astana, Kazakhstan.

Russia banned Lufthansa Cargo from Russia airspace earlier this week after a permit allowing the airline to fly over the country expired. The ban was seen by some as an attempt to strong-arm Lufthansa into moving its hub from Kazakhstan to Russia.

Detours to avoid Russian airspace have increased the carrier's fuel costs by about 400,000 dollars (280,000 euros) per week.

The Russian transport ministry agreed on Friday to extend a temporary authorisation, allowing Lufthansa Cargo to resume flights over the country.

Tiefensee said that a precondition for a final accord was "the creation of infrastructure to enable flights to that airport (Krasnoyarsk) in any weather condition."

According to the Financial Times Deutschland, Krasnoyarsk lacks guides for fog-bound landings.

Lufthansa Cargo, a major air cargo carrier, uses McDonnell Douglas MD-11 freighters with a range that prevents direct flights to Asian capitals.

Lufthansa Cargo had appeared earlier Friday to be categorically opposed to a move to a Siberian city, with a spokesman telling Thomson Financial news agency it was "out of the question."

"Technical conditions at the airports mentioned absolutely do not satisfy international standards," the spokesman said.

Later, the group stressed that conditions at the airport needed to be upgraded and that the location of the hub should not be linked to the issue of overflight rights.

A statement said: "We don't agree that talks about overflight rights should be linked to demands for the transfer of the cargo hub.

"Lufthansa Cargo will only consider a move once operational and commercial conditions are established."

German officials had promised to respond by November 7 to Russian conditions that include a requirement that Lufthansa freight flights to southeast Asia make a stop on Russian territory, the Russian trade ministry said.

The spat is another example of trade tension between Russia and a European Union member, with relations strained between the EU and its giant neighbour to the east.

Polish meat exports to Russia and gas shipments from Russia via Ukraine to EU states have also raised tensions in the past year.

On Monday, cargo flights by the Russian airline Aeroflot were barred from landing in Frankfurt, but the measure was lifted the next day "as a goodwill gesture," according to a German transport ministry spokesman.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hQ6iL5y99PjhJ-gXWKdI2hxqdREg

Well, the pressure did not take long to give the Russians what they wanted.

muck
11-02-2007, 06:30 PM
For a long while now, Russian enterprises seek entrance to share pools of large German firms like the Telekom, the Post and the Bahn, which was doggedly blocked by the concerned groups with backup of Berlin. I guess the present incidence is a tit-for-tat-reaction in that manner.

Nightsky
11-02-2007, 07:51 PM
For a long while now, Russian enterprises seek entrance to share pools of large German firms like the Telekom, the Post and the Bahn, which was doggedly blocked by the concerned groups with backup of Berlin. I guess the present incidence is a tit-for-tat-reaction in that manner.

Agreed, it's quite understandable.

xav
11-02-2007, 08:12 PM
^^ the whole story makes sense then

cbreedon
11-04-2007, 12:27 AM
And America is the evil country? the devil you know.... look east.

Pille1234
11-04-2007, 06:56 AM
I'd like to mention that the afp report is factually wrong. Lufthansa promised a long time ago that the company would have a look into the Russian airports once the technical requirements are established. Up to today this has not happened and Lufthansa did not agree to move its cargo hub to Russia.
I'm sure we will hear more about that story in the next weeks.

Kitsune
11-04-2007, 12:48 PM
Have you noticed how the name of the Russian airline Aero-flot comes out in this forum? It's Aeroflot! ;-)

Asheren
11-04-2007, 01:04 PM
For a long while now, Russian enterprises seek entrance to share pools of large German firms like the Telekom, the Post and the Bahn, which was doggedly blocked by the concerned groups with backup of Berlin. I guess the present incidence is a tit-for-tat-reaction in that manner.

Well they were trying similiar thing in Poland (mostly with energy and oil related companies).

Freibier
11-04-2007, 01:07 PM
Sneaky bastards those iwans

Doublethinker
11-04-2007, 02:10 PM
Sneaky bastards those iwans

And mods will let it slide?

theholeinthedonut
11-04-2007, 02:11 PM
Does anyone want some cheese?

Asheren
11-04-2007, 03:00 PM
What kind of cheese?

Wodan
11-04-2007, 04:19 PM
FRANKFURT (AFP) — Germany has accepted the transfer of Lufthansa Cargo's central Asian hub from Kazakhstan to Siberia,

enough for me to not going on with reading that article:

"Germany has accepted"...

a corporation (Lufthansa) has a dispute about flight rights, and bows to pressure from some nation...
mkay... be it like that, but donīt say "germany has accepted"... its a single company, not germany

(if that is true at all, with lufthansa doing this)

Kitsune
11-05-2007, 02:37 PM
@theholeinthedonut:


What, no remark somehow alluding to Hitler this time? You are slipping...

theholeinthedonut
11-05-2007, 02:51 PM
And mods will let it slide?


Does anyone want some cheese?


@theholeinthedonut:


What, no remark somehow alluding to Hitler this time? You are slipping...
What the hell has doublenotthinker to do with Schicklgruber?

Mastermind
11-05-2007, 03:25 PM
Seems with all the little trade bangs, Russia is letting folks know she is a contender and probably should be somehow included in all these wonderful free trade arrangements that are really trading coalitions. The big 'ol shebear is not a meager player and seems like she has plenty of savvy in the business world.

The more I read about Russia and Russians, the more I admire them. They have guts. Something the rest of the world is sorely lacking these last several decades.

muck
11-14-2007, 11:37 AM
The Russians are getting annoying.
Today, the Russian Air Force has forced a German Air Force transport plane, heading towards Uzbekistan in support of Isaf troops, to turn back to Germany.

quinsen
11-14-2007, 12:44 PM
Well done our russian friends. :roll:

Kampfbaer
11-14-2007, 02:18 PM
I don`t like the fact, that were depending more and more on Russian gas, the pipeline through the Baltic is a big mistake in my eyes.

Russia isn`t acting like a responsible partner lately and Germany should act accordingly, i.e., ignore them as much as possible or duplicate the behaviour.

There are other tradepartners elsewhere.

0rphie
11-14-2007, 03:16 PM
The Russians are getting annoying.
Today, the Russian Air Force has forced a German Air Force transport plane, heading towards Uzbekistan in support of Isaf troops, to turn back to Germany.
Will Germany allow Rusian military plane use its airspace? The US would not.

muck
11-14-2007, 03:30 PM
Will Germany allow Rusian military plane use its airspace? The US would not.

Germany would if there is a real reason. Germany is a transit nation, especially in the air space. A plenty of foreign military planes cross German air space every day.
US-Russian relations are as I understand it are far less hearty than German-Russian relations are
Since February 2002 German Air Force has been permanently using Russian Air Space to reach Uzbekistan and the Russians never had something against this

He219
11-14-2007, 03:38 PM
the story ..

Lufthansa said earlier on Wednesday that Germany's transport minister had informed it that Russia had extended the overflight rights, but said the extension was not linked to a possible move of its cargo hub from Kazakhastan to Russia.

Russia stopped Lufthansa cargo planes from flying through its airspace at the end of October, saying the German carrier should move its regional cargo transit hub from Astana in Kazakhstan to Krasnoyarsk in Siberia, as previously agreed.

It later gave permission for flights until Nov. 15.

Lufthansa Cargo uses Astana, its second-biggest cargo airport after Frankfurt, as a connecting point for flights to southeast Asia. In 2006, it carried 2,542 flights to and from China, Japan, South Korea via Astana.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20071114/tbs-lufthansa-russia-7318940.html

MZKT
11-14-2007, 05:11 PM
I don`t like the fact, that were depending more and more on Russian gas, the pipeline through the Baltic is a big mistake in my eyes.

So you want to be dependent on Russian gas + polish-russian relations + russian-ukrainian relations together intead of just on russian gas as provided by the pipeline?

Freibier
11-14-2007, 05:29 PM
So you want to be dependent on Russian gas + polish-russian relations + russian-ukrainian relations together intead of just on russian gas as provided by the pipeline?
I think he means that we should buy somewhere different altogether, russia ain't the only supplier and the price is the same elsewhere anyway.

RomanS
11-14-2007, 11:21 PM
Nothing negative will come out, only on this forum it has a potential to turn into flames.

Germany will continue buying Russian gas, Russia will continue selling Russian gas.

Life goes on, and this thread goes deep into old pages.

Kampfbaer
11-15-2007, 12:32 PM
So you want to be dependent on Russian gas + polish-russian relations + russian-ukrainian relations together intead of just on russian gas as provided by the pipeline?

I donīt like to be dependent on Russia at all, the current government (of Russia) has proven multiple times, that they canīt be trusted.

The reliable delivery of Energy (gas, oil) is very important for the national security of an independent state and should be lokked after accordingly.

That doesnīt mean, that Germany shouldn`t deal with Russia at all, we should just look for alternatives and put less weight on trading with current Russia.