OPSEC

[California Joe]

This is something I deal with everyday at work and believe me it is taken extremely seriously by all in my command. There are code words etc. and all of that cool type stuff. There are no leaks. It's not something that professionals do.

What annoys the **** out of me is when I read things like the article Weedman just posted..."According to interviews with several past and present American intelligence officials, the Pentagon’s operation, known inside the intelligence community by several code words, including Copper Green, encouraged physical coercion and ****** humiliation of Iraqi prisoners in an effort to generate more intelligence about the growing insurgency in Iraq. A senior C.I.A. official, in confirming the details of this account last week, said that the operation stemmed from Rumsfeld’s long-standing desire to wrest control of America’s clandestine and paramilitary operations from the C.I.A."

The public has a right to know if our government is f*cking up. They do not have a right to know things that take a background investigation of at least 6 months to know. These "intelligence officials" that are constantly being sited, if real, are the biggest f*cking threats to OPSEC there are. I don't know if they have axes to grind or are simply attention whores that snicker when they read things in the paper but they seriously piss me off.

[Roger Rabbit]

$6.95 for 25 rounds of FMJ 9x23mm

[Argyll]

Hear hear!!
There is a lot of stuff the public also do not need to know,and they should stop this Bull****,if they knew half of what the Intelligence community knew they'd be hell on earth!

[Argyll]

$6.95 for 25 rounds of FMJ 9x23mm

Roger
I think this is in the wrong thread buddy! ;)

[Roger Rabbit]

;) Naa posted that in the other thread as well. Was just offering it as a cheap way of getting rid of people who are revealing secret infomation.

On a more serious note how do these people get away with it? I'm sure there must be rules in place to prevent this happening. Maybe the punishments need to be made more severe to deter people.

[Tane Angle]

I agree, CJ. In certain cases, it is best to be a whisteblower. However, in this case, the whistle has already been blown, so is there that much point to continue tweeting it for attention? If I'm ever not sure about sometime I write, I just stay on the safe side and don't mention it. I've asked one of the CI guys here to read posts before I submit them a few times, but he's always cleared them.

I agree that particularly unnecessary is the release of codewords. Most people, including most Senators, won't gain anything from knowing a code word, and won't lose anything by not knowing it. I've had the same problem over the years, it's just really not important for a word or two to be included.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[California Joe]

No, not really. You're on your honor. It goes with the clearance level. When you sign papers in the beginning you are told you face prison time for talking about this stuff.

[Tane Angle]

And prison time/discharges, etc. do happen. Sometimes to the people who were blowing whistles that sincerely needed to be blown. It's an unfair system.

[budanski]

Its well documented that these orders were ordered from the top. C'mon, we all know that GWB finished his crossword puzzle early one day and needed something else to do, so he sent orders for the troops to traumatize prisoners in Iraq. That Nick Berg killing was a CIA coverup.

Weedman likes to post these "feel good" stories to him about the alleged abuses and such, but to keep things in perspective, all the pictures I've seen appear to be posed. The leash picture, the picture of the guy wired with the hood are not pictures of abuse but staged pictures. They may be in bad taste, they may picture unacceptable prankstering, but they are not abuse. Just because the neocommunist, ultra-left wing media uses the word, doesn't make it so.

I remember the efforts to capture Noriega in Panama when we broadcast loud rock music at his compound to force him out. Abuse? Only if a Republican had ordered it.

Watched a documentary the other night titled "The Day of the Jackel.: In it, the French government kidnapped a guy from Rome and during questioning in France, patterned after interegation from French Indo China and Alergia, he died. That's abuse.

Seems some germans will always have a sick fascination with abuse (http://www.parascope.com/gallery/galleryitems/holocaust/).

[Argyll]

Its well documented that these orders were ordered from the top. C'mon, we all know that GWB finished his crossword puzzle early one day and needed something else to do, so he sent orders for the troops to traumatize prisoners in Iraq. That Nick Berg killing was a CIA coverup.

Weedman likes to post these "feel good" stories to him about the alleged abuses and such, but to keep things in perspective, all the pictures I've seen appear to be posed. The leash picture, the picture of the guy wired with the hood are not pictures of abuse but staged pictures. They may be in bad taste, they may picture unacceptable prankstering, but they are not abuse. Just because the neocommunist, ultra-left wing media uses the word, doesn't make it so.

I remember the efforts to capture Noriega in Panama when we broadcast loud rock music at his compound to force him out. Abuse? Only if a Republican had ordered it.

Watched a documentary the other night titled "The Day of the Jackel.: In it, the French government kidnapped a guy from Rome and during questioning in France, patterned after interegation from French Indo China and Alergia, he died. That's abuse.

Seems some germans will always have a sick fascinated with abuse (http://www.parascope.com/gallery/galleryitems/holocaust/).

That's a lie for a start you know fine GWB cannot do crossword puzzles ;)

[Ichhabe]

Its well documented that these orders were ordered from the top. C'mon, we all know that GWB finished his crossword puzzle early one day and needed something else to do, so he sent orders for the troops to traumatize prisoners in Iraq. That Nick Berg killing was a CIA coverup.

Weedman likes to post these "feel good" stories to him about the alleged abuses and such, but to keep things in perspective, all the pictures I've seen appear to be posed. The leash picture, the picture of the guy wired with the hood are not pictures of abuse but staged pictures. They may be in bad taste, they may picture unacceptable prankstering, but they are not abuse. Just because the neocommunist, ultra-left wing media uses the word, doesn't make it so.

I remember the efforts to capture Noriega in Panama when we broadcast loud rock music at his compound to force him out. Abuse? Only if a Republican had ordered it.

Watched a documentary the other night titled "The Day of the Jackel.: In it, the French government kidnapped a guy from Rome and during questioning in France, patterned after interegation from French Indo China and Alergia, he died. That's abuse.

Seems some germans will always have a sick fascinated with abuse (http://www.parascope.com/gallery/galleryitems/holocaust/).

That's a lie for a start you know fine GWB cannot do crossword puzzles ;)

Thanks for posting that one. I thought of doing it aswell... But then, I'm just a leftie pinko bla bla bla. rofl

[ShotOver]

What is it exactly that you DO Calijoe?
And what is OPSEC, i've heard the term used alot around photo topic's and informative topic's. I apologize for going off topic.

[catdat]

I think there are several issues here. I doubt very much that the pentagon has "several" real names for the same operation. More likely there are several similiar operations with different names. The name itself can be secret but repeating the name isn't necessarily the same as revealing the operation.

i.e -I'm at the pentagon water cooler and I ask Joe Snuffy, "Hey how's that operation Overlord going?" this is not the same as saying "Hey how's the plan to invade normandy next weekend going?"

There's a reason operations are given code names.

Codes for the actual comsec of an operation are usually changed on a weekly basis. If someone with a clearance lost his code book or revealed the contents that would be a different story.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Weedman likes to post these "feel good" stories to him about the alleged abuses
The human pyramid photos were abuse I really cannot find any other words to describe this act unless your one of the minority of men who enjoy participating in similar acts with other consenting adults then of course you could then call it "fun".

[Tane Angle]

No apology about asking what OPSEC is necessary, PT. OPSEC is operational security. It is basically ensuring that operations aren't compromised, that things are divulged on a need-to-know basis only, things of that nature. Good OPSEC keeps things secret when they should be.

[cqbrdy]

i thought breaking opsec was something like this:
joe and jim were out eating and jim started talking about work on the base and how theyre short manned and usually dont have these positions guarded between these hours and someone over hears it who wants to attack the base. pretty much handing out security details.
or reporters when they say, hey everyone, im here in this location, where the soldiers are leaving to attack this place, by traveling this road.
what does the whole detainee scandle have to do with operation security?

[budanski]

Weedman likes to post these "feel good" stories to him about the alleged abuses
The human pyramid photos were abuse I really cannot find any other words to describe this act unless your one of the minority of men who enjoy participating in similar acts with other consenting adults then of course you could then call it "fun".

http://www.kristensheley.com/bttf/pics/pyrimid.jpg
http://tlc.discovery.com/convergence/pmt/timeline/gallery/pop_human_lg.jpg

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

Nice try Budanski I have revised it to include "naked"


The naked human pyramid photos were abuse I really cannot find any other words to describe this act unless your one of the minority of men who enjoy participating in similar acts with other consenting adults then of course you could then call it "fun".

[Argyll]

IIRC a drunken attempt one night to see how many Jocks we could get into one of the showers in the Abloutions one night after beeing out on the piss,this thing was less than 4' x 4' and we got 20 blokes in there,and it was not a pretty sight ;)

[BlackRain]

Nice try Budanski I have revised it to include "naked"


The naked human pyramid photos were abuse I really cannot find any other words to describe this act unless your one of the minority of men who enjoy participating in similar acts with other consenting adults then of course you could then call it "fun".

In America, citizens are presumed innocent until proved guilty in a court of law.

Since you do not know the full facts of the "ALLEGED" abuse, you really can't make any honest determination about the issue.

Know-nothings from around the world are making public declarations about this case and are unfairly prejudicing these soldiers trials.

I am surprised that you are making a stink about naked men in a pyramid; isn't that common in Scotland. Just kidding! :D

[Herrmannek]

OPSEC is flawed idea its realy against human nature..People should talk as much as possible, but not necessarly true :), with si way more natural and ieasy to follow....

[ibstolidude]

I agree, CJ. In certain cases, it is best to be a whisteblower. However, in this case, the whistle has already been blown, so is there that much point to continue tweeting it for attention? If I'm ever not sure about sometime I write, I just stay on the safe side and don't mention it. I've asked one of the CI guys here to read posts before I submit them a few times, but he's always cleared them.

I agree that particularly unnecessary is the release of codewords. Most people, including most Senators, won't gain anything from knowing a code word, and won't lose anything by not knowing it. I've had the same problem over the years, it's just really not important for a word or two to be included.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...
I have a problem with some of the anon senior officials - in the past they have ended up being not that senior nor that official. Having witnessed first hand accounts in that past that were later released by an anon official "in the know" they were totally false and not even remotely accurate. The problem I often have is that the anon official releasing has little cred as they could be ANYONE with a beef - and have been proven so in the past.

If you are going to be a man of "character" standing against the system then do so, don't hid behind the title of "anon" - men of character accept their consequences.
Nor should we be so apt to believe "anon" officials - hell they could be the cofee go-for - although I would likley listen to a gofer before most other staff members.

That having been said it is a fine line. There have been glaring abuses in the past brought forward by individuals that have lead to reforms.

[Tane Angle]

Good point, stoli. If the camera adds ten pounds, then the press tends to add five pay grades. p-) The specific incidents I refered to with:
And prison time/discharges, etc. do happen. Sometimes to the people who were blowing whistles that sincerely needed to be blown. It's an unfair system.
Those people made it clear that they felt they were doing the right thing (in my humble opinion, they were), had nothing to hide, and used their names. They pissed off a lot of powerful people, and thus the cane came for them. They had no illlusions about being carried around on people's shoulders, of being publicly hailed as heroes. They were selfless, on and off the field of battle.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

[SABER 2-3]

TANE,

Great qoute about the media; can I steal that from you for official and unofficial use. I'll call it Operation Self Important. We can use the codename "Vulture" for classification. Your part of the op. will be codeworded under "Wise Guy" and will be compartmental under the codename "School house". You will of course change all codewords IAW National Security Classification directives (enforced under Federal law and Executive order) to include authentication of all in and out communications. I will use the codename "Qoute bandit" and shall mirrior your classification structure but w/ different less original codeword classifications. And Damn those janitorial people are doing a great job, every trash can empty and no papers laying around.

[shrek]

an OPSEC violation is when an 82nd trooper gets on the SATphone and tells his girlfriend that "he's tired of feeding 120 Rangers at the ............. safehouse in .............! All they do is go to the border, act like they're leaving, but leave some guys behind to catch badguys when they cross". Do you know how many Green Berets I've seen around here, at least .......!


Most of the guys that leak these stories are peons like the ones that took the pictures in the first place that want to play James Bond and feel important. That's why agents target them!

[Uncle Sam]

an OPSEC violation is when an 82nd trooper gets on the SATphone and tells his girlfriend that "he's tired of feeding 120 Rangers at the ............. safehouse in .............! All they do is go to the border, act like they're leaving, but leave some guys behind to catch badguys when they cross". Do you know how many Green Berets I've seen around here, at least .......!


Most of the guys that leak these stories are peons like the ones that took the pictures in the first place that want to play James Bond and feel important. That's why agents target them!

Did it have to be a trooper from the 82nd??

[shrek]

It didn't have to be, but it was!!!

[Merik]

Honestly I dont give a rat's ass what happened in the prison. If we got something out of the prisoner's then tops to the MI guys. However, what I do have a problem is the fact that these morons were just too damn stupid enough to actually take pictures of this ****. What kind of f-ing dumbass do you have to be to take pictures? I mean who the hell are you going to show them to anyway?

*30 years later*
"Well kids, this is your grandpa in Iraq in 2003 when I was in a prison making all the prisoners look like they are butt f-ing each other."



WTH!!!!!!!!!???????

[pinkeye]

i thought breaking opsec was something like this:
joe and jim were out eating and jim started talking about work on the base and how theyre short manned and usually dont have these positions guarded between these hours and someone over hears it who wants to attack the base. pretty much handing out security details.
or reporters when they say, hey everyone, im here in this location, where the soldiers are leaving to attack this place, by traveling this road.
what does the whole detainee scandle have to do with operation security?

that's certainly part of it. for example, my current security clearance prevents me from discussing any classified material regardless of the context and circumstances. i was clearly warned before signing my papers that any unauthorised divulgations were severely punished.

when abuses of any kind do take place, action must be taken. if that means rocking the boat, so be it. security should not take precedence over fundamental freedoms...

[pinkeye]

Its well documented that these orders were ordered from the top. C'mon, we all know that GWB finished his crossword puzzle early one day and needed something else to do, so he sent orders for the troops to traumatize prisoners in Iraq. That Nick Berg killing was a CIA coverup.

Weedman likes to post these "feel good" stories to him about the alleged abuses and such, but to keep things in perspective, all the pictures I've seen appear to be posed. The leash picture, the picture of the guy wired with the hood are not pictures of abuse but staged pictures. They may be in bad taste, they may picture unacceptable prankstering, but they are not abuse. Just because the neocommunist, ultra-left wing media uses the word, doesn't make it so.

I remember the efforts to capture Noriega in Panama when we broadcast loud rock music at his compound to force him out. Abuse? Only if a Republican had ordered it.

Watched a documentary the other night titled "The Day of the Jackel.: In it, the French government kidnapped a guy from Rome and during questioning in France, patterned after interegation from French Indo China and Alergia, he died. That's abuse.

Seems some germans will always have a sick fascination with abuse (http://www.parascope.com/gallery/galleryitems/holocaust/).

budanski, still waving that big ol' "i love mccarthy" flag, eh?!? neo-communist, ultra-left wing media? who uses this terminology in 2004?
:roll:

[Retard]

neo-communist, ultra-left wing media? who uses this terminology in 2004?
:roll:

Count me in! :P

Actually, I prefer 'commie pinko pigs!'

I'm serious! After watching the news reports this last year, I'm disgusted with the 'news' media.

[budanski]

budanski, still waving that big ol' "i love mccarthy" flag, eh?!? neo-communist, ultra-left wing media? who uses this terminology in 2004?
:roll: Hows that Neocon working for ya? Ask Kitsune for some testimonials.

[Trigger]

pinkeye wrote:

budanski, still waving that big ol' "i love mccarthy" flag, eh?!? neo-communist, ultra-left wing media? who uses this terminology in 2004?

People with both eyes and ears open.

[pinkeye]

pinkeye wrote:

budanski, still waving that big ol' "i love mccarthy" flag, eh?!? neo-communist, ultra-left wing media? who uses this terminology in 2004?

People with both eyes and ears open.

unless your news sources are indeed communist, no one can make the argument that the media is "neo-communist, ultra-left wing". this statement is beyond ridiculous... just like if someone were to call the republican party "neo-fascist, ultra-right wing". some obviously do, but they aren't credible by any stretch of the imagination.