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J-10
11-06-2007, 04:34 AM
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/11/06/in_china_better_rich_than_red/
In China, better rich than red
By H.D.S. Greenway
November 6, 2007

THE VIEW across the river at the skyscrapers of Pudong, where only muddy fields had existed 20 years ago, or the sight of jolly crowds of Chinese tourists carousing in the impossibly quaint streets of Lijiang in the hills of Yunnan, called to mind the once-startlingly revolutionary slogan that changed China: "It doesn't matter the color of the cat as long as it catches mice."

The phrase, attributed to Deng Xiaoping, was revolutionary because it directly contradicted Mao Zedong's dictum "better red than expert." The old devil Mao had unleashed countless ideologically driven campaigns that had brought China to its knees. Being red was what was important, not whether you knew anything.

What Deng did with his cat analogy was to reel back ideology in favor of practicality, to take human nature as he found it rather than trying to create a perfect socialist man, culminating in another of his aphorisms: "To get rich is glorious."

And many Chinese have done just that. According to press reports, China now has 106 billionaires, second only to the United States. There were none in 2002. During the recent party congress, the Chinese press and television repeatedly claimed that China had the world's third largest economy, after the United States and Japan. Twenty years ago it ranked 29th.

Before he came to paramount power 30 years ago, Deng had been purged twice for being an "unrelenting capitalist roader." Today, one would have to say that's just what he was. "Build socialism with Chinese characteristics," Deng said. But it is hard to see where the socialism fits in anymore, now that a market economy is in force. Gone are the blue-suited masses who had to kowtow to "Mao Thought" in an Orwellian state. Income is certainly not equally distributed. The glitz and glamour of the new Shanghai sharply contrast with ox-drawn wooden plows in the countryside.

If anything, socialism means the control of the Chinese Communist Party. Deng, no democrat, feared China might disintegrate as did Mikhail Gorbachev's Soviet Union , even though Deng recognized, even before Gorbachev did, that communism was impractical. But he equated democracy protests with chaos, and he had seen enough of that in the Cultural Revolution. "Our people have gone through a decade of suffering," he said, and "cannot afford further chaos." Deng may have said that "socialism and a market economy are not incompatible," but he also said "socialism does not mean shared power."

The rising political expectations that followed Deng's economic and social reforms were squashed in Tiananmen Square 18 years ago. And any perceived challenge to state power is just as ruthlessly suppressed by Deng's successors. But for all of that, the last 20 years have been the best China has had in the last couple of centuries. China's rocket to the moon seemed timed to crown last month's party congress, and its plans for the Olympic games seem like the preparations of a debutante to celebrate her coming-out party.

Yet China's leaders seem as desperate to keep the tag of socialism attached to their society as American politicians are to avoid the socialist label when they discuss plans for national heathcare and the like.

It was unavoidable in a country so huge that China's problems would be outsized too. Extreme pollution stalks its cities and ravages the countryside. Rapid changes are unsettling society, lack of regulation is hurting its exports, and its demand for commodities to fuel its driven economy is affecting the markets of the world.

An interesting phenomenon is China's efforts to virtually acquire Africa. Chinese interest in Africa goes back to Zhou Enlai's efforts in the 1950s. But recent investments in a continent that so much of the rest of the world has written off as hopeless has little to do with ideology, and everything to do with business.

China has no interest in Africa's politics, it was explained to me by a Chinese academic. What China wants is Africa's commodities and hopes to enter into a mutually beneficial relationship with Africa to get them.

Chinese wonder at the Bush administration's zeal to promote democracy, even by force - prompting a Chinese friend to say that there were only four ideology-driven countries left in the world: Cuba, North Korea, perhaps Iran, and the United States. Desire for a more representational form of government may still beat in China's breast, but for the moment China's energies are concentrated on catching mice.

Zerazax
11-06-2007, 06:35 AM
As someone who has visited China and seen what the economic revolution there has done I can safely conclude from my experiences that:

a) Socialism doesn't work. The capitalism has made the Chinese better off in all walks of life (obviously some more so than others).
b) China is one of the few countries where capitalism seems to be gaining as it is viewed in a more positive light. Sad that in some European countries and even in the U.S., socialist answers are posed to societal questions when its the opposite in China.

and

c) The majority of people there didn't care much for democracy - corruption was an issue, yes, but there isn't much of a brooding feeling for democratic revolution among the populace.

If China can build a benevolent autocratic rule, it would be fine by me. You're talking about a culture 4000 years old with tradition of anything but democratic rule. Things wont change overnight. What *is* returning, however, is the power of the market...

Tempest
11-06-2007, 07:11 AM
Recently I was at Shenzhen for the first time. It's where communist state first opened up the country to the world. What started as a small fishing village in the late 70s is now a rip-roaring prosperous megalopolis. The pace of development there, even to this day, is truly mind-blowing. And it's just one city...

Solvent
11-06-2007, 12:54 PM
As someone who has visited China and seen what the economic revolution there has done I can safely conclude from my experiences that:

a) Socialism doesn't work. The capitalism has made the Chinese better off in all walks of life (obviously some more so than others).
b) China is one of the few countries where capitalism seems to be gaining as it is viewed in a more positive light. Sad that in some European countries and even in the U.S., socialist answers are posed to societal questions when its the opposite in China.

and

c) The majority of people there didn't care much for democracy - corruption was an issue, yes, but there isn't much of a brooding feeling for democratic revolution among the populace.

If China can build a benevolent autocratic rule, it would be fine by me. You're talking about a culture 4000 years old with tradition of anything but democratic rule. Things wont change overnight. What *is* returning, however, is the power of the market...

You conclusions are very accurate. Two thumbs up for you.

KVLG
11-06-2007, 11:45 PM
Supposedly at least half of China's economy is still state-owned, or so I've heard. I recall someone once saying that China's policies are basically the same as Lenin's New Economic Policy, but with more state involvement. Still, credit must be given to Deng and his successors for being smart enough to be pragmatic and pratical. Mao must be redlining his tachiometers-spinning in his grave.

pacifist
11-07-2007, 12:17 PM
Sad that in some European countries and even in the U.S., socialist answers are posed to societal questions when its the opposite in China.



That's because chinese economy is booming and wealth and available jobs for people are increasing whereas in Europe it's the other way around. All the manufacturing jobs are going to China and India.


So of course they see it more positively in China.

J-10
11-07-2007, 10:01 PM
Supposedly at least half of China's economy is still state-owned, or so I've heard...

China's economy is 1/3 state-owned, 78% employee's jobs are from private enterprises.

LaoSexMachine
11-07-2007, 10:04 PM
China's economy is 1/3 state-owned, 78% employee's jobs are from private enterprises.

Source? .

J-10
11-08-2007, 12:09 AM
Source? .

http://www.mofcom.gov.cn/aarticle/difang/shaanxi/200609/20060903231419.html

It's a briefing of "2006 China private economy blue book", title is "private economic GDP will reach 75% proportion in future five years".

KVLG
11-08-2007, 05:36 PM
http://www.mofcom.gov.cn/aarticle/difang/shaanxi/200609/20060903231419.html

It's a briefing of "2006 China private economy blue book", title is "private economic GDP will reach 75% proportion in future five years".

I don't have Chinese language capabilities on my computer. Also, just out of curiosity, does the private sector include partially private/partially government enterprises, or joint ventures with foreign companies, or even cooperatives?

J-10
11-09-2007, 10:12 AM
I don't have Chinese language capabilities on my computer. Also, just out of curiosity, does the private sector include partially private/partially government enterprises, or joint ventures with foreign companies, or even cooperatives?

China's private enterprises define as Non state-owned enterprises. Include joint ventures with foreign companies, or even cooperatives, but no government enterprises participant.

darkstorm08
11-09-2007, 12:34 PM
The number one thing China has been doing right, is letting the populus (at least some) get a piece of the pie. This is where the USSR failed. Eventually people get sick of communist rule, especially when there is no need for it. The need being a struggle of some sort. The true test will be when China cools off or starts to freeze.... regarding there economy. Then we will see if China falls back on its old ways or rolls with the punches.

SMYD
11-10-2007, 07:24 AM
welcome to China! Then you will know how different from you know in press.