"Why don´t you shut up?".Colonial Spain is back.

[Ariha]

http://www.fox23news.com/news/world/story.aspx?content_id=d7d08105-176b-4244-8b75-409765b04b14

During Spain´s President Zapatero speech, continuosly interrupted by President Chavez of Venezuela the King of Spain angrily turned to President Chavez and cried "Why don´t you shut up?".

[Lazarou]

rofl .

[Lancero]

You forgot to mention that Chavez repeatedly called Aznar (former spanish government president) a "fascist".

[Ariha]

It is said in the article. But what hits me right in the middle of the eye is Spain´s elected President being there, who the hell is the king to intervene in the scuffle, specially in this manner against the President of a former colony. Do he thinks that Pres. Chavez is his subject?

[Tokamak]

I feel sorry for the Venezuelans. Imagine having a president like that.

[Lancero]

Everyone's pacience has a limit. Zapatero called for "respect" and Chavez continued bulling. He got what he deserved.

Here's (http://www.elpais.com/) the video

[Tokamak]

It is said in the article. But what hits me right in the middle of the eye is Spain´s elected President being there, who the hell is the king to intervene in the scuffle, specially in this manner against the President of a former colony. Do he thinks that Pres. Chavez is his subject?

I think being a former colony has nothing to do with that discussion!. I don't think neither the King nor Hugo Chavez was thinking about that. He reacted in that way after hearing how that president was attacking a former president of his country.

[Tokamak]

Everyone's pacience has a limit. Zapatero called for "respect" and Chavez continued bulling. He got what he deserved.

Here's (http://www.elpais.com/) the video


Thanks for the link.

[BloodyTalon]

It is said in the article. But what hits me right in the middle of the eye is Spain´s elected President being there, who the hell is the king to intervene in the scuffle, specially in this manner against the President of a former colony. Do he thinks that Pres. Chavez is his subject?
No, he thinks Chavez is a disrespectful oaf that was making the confrence less civil with his ****ing around. The "STFU Chavez!" was well deserved

[Snoshi]

No, he thinks Chavez is a disrespectful oaf that was making the confrence less civil with his ****ing around. The "STFU Chavez!" was well deserved

Yep.. Atleast someone have balls to shut him up

[Chulo]

It is said in the article. But what hits me right in the middle of the eye is Spain´s elected President being there, who the hell is the king to intervene in the scuffle, specially in this manner against the President of a former colony. Do he thinks that Pres. Chavez is his subject?
and who does Chavez think he is by interrupting others when they are talking? while it was out of place, i think Chavez deserved it and must learn some manners.

[Tokamak]

I think he deserves more than that but at least someone did something.

[theholeinthedonut]

It is said in the article. But what hits me right in the middle of the eye is Spain´s elected President being there, who the hell is the king to intervene in the scuffle, specially in this manner against the President of a former colony. Do he thinks that Pres. Chavez is his subject?

You seem to be on quite the same level with Chavez.

[Ariha]

and who does Chavez think he is by interrupting others when they are talking? while it was out of place, i think Chavez deserved it and must learn some manners.

I think that Chavez is a gorilla, but nevertheless I insist, the President of Spain was there and he should have imposed respect on Chavez. Diplomatically speaking it is the most irregular that an unelected and symbolical figure intervened like this.

[Ariha]

You seem to be on quite the same level with Chavez.

Which level, care to explain?

[Ariha]

Yep.. Atleast someone have balls to shut him up

Pity it wans´t the elected President of Spain...

[Nansouty]

I think that Chavez is a gorilla, but nevertheless I insist, the President of Spain was there and he should have imposed respect on Chavez. Diplomatically speaking it is the most irregular that an unelected and symbolical figure intervened like this.

The King is the nominal head of the Spanish state and Zapatero's its Prime Minister. For protocolary matters, King Juan Carlos is the equivalent of President Chavez.

[Ironsight06]

I think that Chavez is a gorilla, but nevertheless I insist, the President of Spain was there and he should have imposed respect on Chavez. Diplomatically speaking it is the most irregular that an unelected and symbolical figure intervened like this.
Because Chavez respects other people?

Give me a break. :roll:

[gaijinsamurai]

Good for King Juan Carlos.

Viva el Rey!

[-peacemaker-]

I think that Chavez is a gorilla, but nevertheless I insist, the President of Spain was there and he should have imposed respect on Chavez. Diplomatically speaking it is the most irregular that an unelected and symbolical figure intervened like this.
Respect for Chavez? Chavez was being a dumbass, he had his turn to speak and yet he still did not shutup, Chavez deserved it. The man who was trying to get Chavez to shutup, "diplomatically", was correct when he told Chavez that if you want to be respected you should also show respect to others.

Also, I don't see how this little frustrated outburst by the king of spain somehow shows that colonial spain is back? wtf?

[Surf City]

It is said in the article. But what hits me right in the middle of the eye is Spain´s elected President being there, who the hell is the king to intervene in the scuffle, specially in this manner against the President of a former colony. Do he thinks that Pres. Chavez is his subject?

That's the problem nowadays. Instead of staying on point you choose to divert the attention away from the real problem.....Hugo Chavez! You choose to be offended by the big bad Spanish Imperialist instead of focusing on the real danger...Hugo Chavez!

Give me and everyone else a break, nobody is going feel badly for Chavez especially when he initiated the confrontation and deserved the verbal smackdown!:bash:

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I think that Chavez is a gorilla, but nevertheless I insist, the President of Spain was there and he should have imposed respect on Chavez. Diplomatically speaking it is the most irregular that an unelected and symbolical figure intervened like this.

Er, you see an exchange like this - and the individual you choose to criticize is the one person who has tried to restore order? What as a colonial past, hundreds of years ago- got to do with Chavez behavior? What has this guy's elected status got to do with enforcing order? Chavez has a huuuge chip on his shoulder, he acted like a petulant 4 year old, and was publicly corrected - who cares who does the correcting?

[Andrew Chalmers]

Diplomatically speaking it is the most irregular that an unelected and symbolical figure intervened like this.

Uh - says who? There's really not much precedent for an elected head of state to act like a child during another official's speech. Diplomatic protocols generally don't provide rules governing how to shut up poor mannered heads of states.

[Surf City]

I think that Chavez is a gorilla, but nevertheless I insist, the President of Spain was there and he should have imposed respect on Chavez. Diplomatically speaking it is the most irregular that an unelected and symbolical figure intervened like this.

Yeah, how are you supposed to "impose respect" on someone who has neither respect nor diplomacy as part of his repertoire! Besides, if he had "imposed respect" on Chavez, you'd probably cry about Chavez not getting his rights to comment........:cantbeli:

[Ariha]

The King is the nominal head of the Spanish state and Zapatero's its Prime Minister. For protocolary matters, King Juan Carlos is the equivalent of President Chavez.

What happened is totally irregular and out of protocol. Article 56 of the Spanish Constitution grants to the King of Spain the representation of the country in the International Relations. But then in this Summit there were TWO heads of State for Spain. Who was representing Spain, the elected President or a symbolic figure whose role is already challenged in his country?

[muttbutt]

Shut up, Spain king tells Chavez

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44231000/jpg/_44231744_king_ap_story203.jpg King Juan Carlos (r) and Mr Zapatero (l) defended Mr Aznar

Spain's King Juan Carlos told Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez to "shut up" as the Ibero-American summit drew to a close in Santiago, Chile. The outburst came after Mr Chavez called former Spanish Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar a "fascist".
Mr Chavez then interrupted Spanish PM Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero's calls for him to be more diplomatic, prompting the king's outburst.
Latin American, Portuguese, Spanish and Andorran leaders were meeting in Chile.
'Democratically elected'
Mr Chavez called Mr Aznar, a close ally of US President George W Bush, a fascist, adding "fascists are not human. A snake is more human."
Mr Zapatero said: "Former President Aznar was democratically elected by the Spanish people and was a legitimate representative of the Spanish people."
Mr Chavez repeatedly tried to interrupt, despite his microphone being turned off. The king leaned forward and said: "Why don't you shut up?"
According to reports, the king used a familiar term normally used only for close acquaintances - or children.
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44231000/jpg/_44231745_chavez_ap_story203.jpg Mr Chavez (r) called Mr Aznar a fascist


Later, Mr Chavez responded to the king's rebuke.
According to the Associated Press news agency, he said: "I do not offend by telling the truth. The Venezuelan government reserves the right to respond to any aggression, anywhere, in any space and in any manner."
The theme of this year's 22-nation summit was "social cohesion".
Earlier, a row between neighbours Argentina and Uruguay threatened to overshadow the summit.
The long-running dispute erupted anew after Uruguay gave an operating permit to a paper mill despite unresolved environmental objections by Argentina.
On Saturday, scores of Argentine protesters staged a peaceful protest against the setting up of the plant, which they fear could contaminate their crops.
Some of the marchers carried banners reading "No to the paper plant!". Police stopped them from marching across a bridge into Uruguay.
'Stabbed in the back'
Uruguayan President Tabare Vazquez granted a long-awaited start-up permit to the mill on Thursday - hours after giving a conciliatory speech at the summit, which he ended by hugging outgoing Argentine President Nestor Kirchner.
On Friday, Uruguay announced it had closed its border crossing with Argentina closest to the mill in Fray Bentos.
The moves led to protests from the Argentine delegation in the Chilean capital, with Mr Kirchner blaming Mr Vazquez for putting an end to efforts by King Juan Carlos to mediate a resolution to the dispute.
"You have stabbed the Argentine people in the back," Mr Kirchner told his counterpart according to the official Argentine news agency Telam.
This is the latest instalment of a two-year row.
The Finnish owners of the pulp mill - the biggest foreign investment in Uruguay - insist it employs the latest technology and will not pollute. But Argentina disagrees and has taken the case to the International Court in The Hague, whose ruling is pending.



heheheheheh

[Bombtrack]

Which level, care to explain?
Douchebag level.

[loganinkosovo]

What happened is totally irregular and out of protocol. Article 56 of the Spanish Constitution grants to the King of Spain the representation of the country in the International Relations. But then in this Summit there were TWO heads of State for Spain. Who was representing Spain, the elected President or a symbolic figure whose role is already challenged in his country?

Who cares? The King was the only one MAN enough to tell that Monkey A-s-s-Clown to STFU!

I say that if that banana eating B-U-T-T Munch gets too uppity the king should take him out.

p-)

[Surf City]

What happened is totally irregular and out of protocol. Article 56 of the Spanish Constitution grants to the King of Spain the representation of the country in the International Relations. But then in this Summit there were TWO heads of State for Spain. Who was representing Spain, the elected President or a symbolic figure whose role is already challenged in his country?

I don't think the people of Spain mind their "symbolic figure" (or anyone else) telling Chavez to shut his piehole when he's being a rude azz while their elected President is REPEATEDLY interrupted while trying to speak!

Seems you're changing the point of focus again, afterall you're original point was how dare the King of Spain make comments "against the President of a former colony". Now you're trying to argue it's against Spanish diplomatic protocol! Want to try again?:bash:

[Tokamak]

You shouldn't make a fuss because it was the King, it was good some did STFU that guy. About your idea that the Colonial Spain is back you totally lost it there.

[Ariha]

Er, you see an exchange like this - and the individual you choose to criticize is the one person who has tried to restore order? What as a colonial past, hundreds of years ago- got to do with Chavez behavior? What has this guy's elected status got to do with enforcing order? Chavez has a huuuge chip on his shoulder, he acted like a petulant 4 year old, and was publicly corrected - who cares who does the correcting?

I did´nt choose to criticize the king of Spain for restoring the order, but because he´s not the person intended to restore the order. The one he was using his turn to talk was the President of Spain, he should´ve imposed his right, then the authority was of the designated President of the Summit. If these two failed, then diplomatic mechanisms should have penalized Chavez and his country for that outside of the summit. I care who does the correcting because we are not in the times of paternalistic monarchist powers. Or are we brainless citizens of countries that can´t cope with a tyrannnical gorilla?

[little icebear]

Now, that´s cool! Hail to the king! woot

[Ariha]

I don't think the people of Spain mind their "symbolic figure" (or anyone else) telling Chavez to shut his piehole when he's being a rude azz while their elected President is REPEATEDLY interrupted while trying to speak!

Seems you're changing the point of focus again, afterall you're original point was how dare the King of Spain make comments "against the President of a former colony". Now you're trying to argue it's against Spanish diplomatic protocol! Want to try again?:bash:

I´m not changing my focus, the focus is changing while the discussion evolves.

If the (once) elected President of Venezuela interrupts the elected President of Spain, the elected President of Spain is the person to say "shut your mouth". I consider that the king exposed Zapatero to diplomatic ridicule and made him appear as a weak leader.

What is monarchy if not hierarchy and protocol? There´s protocol in the diplomatic sphere too, and the king broke the rules.

[Lazy Lob]

About time the Spanish King decided enough was enough. Good for him. This is exactly what happens when a nation’s PM (or prez) lacks the balls or gumption to stand up for anything.

Rodriguez is the freakin **** who was going to modify and sell EADS CASA 212's to Chavez.

[Lancero]

Rodriguez is the freakin **** who was going to modify and sell EADS CASA 212's to Chavez.

Weren't they C-295 ?

[Ariha]

You shouldn't make a fuss because it was the King, it was good some did STFU that guy. About your idea that the Colonial Spain is back you totally lost it there.


I´m not. Spain is trying to restore it´s influence in the former South American colonies through of a series of diplomatic and economic steps. Spanish companies are investing heavily in SouthAmerica and imposing very heavy tariffs to the point the citizens of Argentina or Peru for example are protesting for what they consider abusive prices. All this is done with arrogance of the Spanish officials and businessmen, and the hubris of the Spanish people.

[Lazy Lob]

Weren't they C-295 ?

Yes, you are quite right. Saturday night stuff, you know ;-) My apologies

[Daniel San]

Colonial Spain is not back.

There is such a concept known as doing something in the performance of duties.

A Head of State when speaking at the plenary session of an international summit should not be told to shut up by another Head of State.

However, when Hugo Chavez was calling former Prime Minister Aznar a fascist he was clearly not doing something in the performance of his duties. Doing so he was acting like an as-s and not like a Head of State.

He only deserved to be told to shut up.

[Tokamak]

I´m not. Spain is trying to restore it´s influence in the former South American colonies through of a series of diplomatic and economic steps. Spanish companies are investing heavily in SouthAmerica and imposing very heavy tariffs to the point the citizens of Argentina or Peru for example are protesting for what they consider abusive prices. All this is done with arrogance of the Spanish officials and businessmen, and the hubris of the Spanish people.

I don't know what type of tariffs you refer, but it is mainly up to the South American people and their governments to stop that. In any case, Mexico and specially Brazil are also increasing their influence in Central and South America but that's the way it works. Mexico and Venezuela have invested a lot in Argentina too.

[Ariha]

Douchebag level.

I think that I´m not breaking any diplomatic rule if I tell you:

"Shut up bonehead, and do not participate in something you don´t understand"

[Surf City]

I´m not changing my focus, the focus is changing while the discussion evolves.

If the (once) elected President of Venezuela interrupts the elected President of Spain, the elected President of Spain is the person to say "shut your mouth". I consider that the king exposed Zapatero to diplomatic ridicule and made him appear as a weak leader.

What is monarchy if not hierarchy and protocol? There´s protocol in the diplomatic sphere too, and the king broke the rules.

It's pretty much stayed the same for everyone else in this discussion, i.e. Chavez is an idiot who needs to shut up!

Meanwhile your focus is the only thing that's "evolved", especially as people have called you out. First you declare "Colonial Spain is back" and "Do he thinks that Pres. Chavez is his subject?" Then you act as if you respect Spanish diplomatic protocol by saying he's weakening his country's leadership/breaking the rules by speaking at all!

It was clear from the beginning that you had an agenda and you are not liking it as people are calling you on it!rofl

[Ariha]

I don't know what type of tariffs you refer, but it is mainly up to the South American people and their governments to stop that. In any case, Mexico and specially Brazil are also increasing their influence in Central and South America but that's the way it works. Mexico and Venezuela have invested a lot in Argentina too.


The type of tariffs that make Nestor Kirchner yell at the Spanish Telecom Co. "Telefonica" not to raise their prices for 2-3 years. Or the Bolivian President imprison a couple of Spanish executives of an oil co. "Repsol" because of the abuse of the Company not paying taxes and exporting illegaly produce without the Bolivian government´s consent, while the Spanish diplomatic body press local authorities with all kinds of threats.

[Bombtrack]

I think that I´m not breaking any diplomatic rule if I tell you:

"Shut up bonehead, and do not participate in something you don´t understand"

Nobody elected you so you can't tell me to shut up, you neo-colonial fascist!

[Muang]

Wars have begin just like that in Europe :D

[Ariha]

It's pretty much stayed the same for everyone else in this discussion, i.e. Chavez is an idiot who needs to shut up!

Meanwhile your focus is the only thing that's "evolved", especially as people have called you out. First you declare "Colonial Spain is back" and "Do he thinks that Pres. Chavez is his subject?" Then you act as if you respect Spanish diplomatic protocol by saying he's weakening his country's leadership/breaking the rules by speaking at all!

It was clear from the beginning that you had an agenda and you are not liking it as people are calling you on it!rofl

Boy, Chavez needs to shut up, but if you and me are not medieval subjects of any king, and if history teached us the need to respect an order where we all have the same rights in face of the law, we should agree that it is not a king who should made Chavez to shut up, it was the task of the guy next to him, called Zapatero, the legitimate representative of Spain. And yes, Spain is behaving with arrogance with its former colonies, and this a truth that almost any Southamerican I know would state.

It is not that I´m not liking people calling me of. I´m here because I face the criticism, I defend my convictions and I don´t run.

[joemanu]

What happened is totally irregular and out of protocol. Article 56 of the Spanish Constitution grants to the King of Spain the representation of the country in the International Relations. But then in this Summit there were TWO heads of State for Spain. Who was representing Spain, the elected President or a symbolic figure whose role is already challenged in his country?

No, there were not two Heads of State. Zapatero is not the President of Spain, he can't be in a monarchy. His official title is "Presidente del Consejo de Ministros" (Chairman of the Council of Ministers), in other words, he is the Prime Minister, just as Gordon Brown is in the UK.
Zapatero was doing his job, speaking in a civilized way, but Chavez wouldn't shut his mouth. And this wasn't the only time, he had been ranting for two days against the former Spanish goverment and the Spanish companies (the number one investors in Latin America).

Having said that, I think the king shouldn't have lost his temper in a diplomatic conference.

[Bombtrack]

that I´m not liking people calling me of. I´m here because I face the criticism, I defend my convictions and I don´t run.

... on the internet

[Ariha]

Nobody elected you so you can't tell me to shut up, you neo-colonial fascist!

Who elected you to call me "douchebag", heh scumbag?

(Pls cut the crap, or add some argument)

[Ariha]

Having said that, I think the king shouldn't have lost his temper in a diplomatic conference.

That´s one of my points. The other being that Spain is trying to act as if the colonial times were not over.

[Ariha]

... on the internet

It´s not the place from where you`re sniping?

[Tokamak]

The type of tariffs that make Nestor Kirchner yell at the Spanish Telecom Co. "Telefonica" not to raise their prices for 2-3 years. Or the Bolivian President imprison a couple of Spanish executives of an oil co. "Repsol" because of the abuse of the Company not paying taxes and exporting illegaly produce without the Bolivian government´s consent, while the Spanish diplomatic body press local authorities with all kinds of threats.

As I said it is up to them. I am not from any of those countries but if I see that the company I have is charging way to much I simply change for another one. They would ultimately lose clients and have no option but to lower their prices. In any case the presidents or their governments have the right to control the market in situations like in Argentina and if they don't want to play ball then don't play and revoke their concessions whether they like it or not. About breaking the law it doesn't matter whether they are Spanish, Americans or any other one they deserve to go to jail. Sorry I also know a lot of South Americans and none of them think that Spain is trying to regain control of former colonies.

[Tokamak]

Boy, Chavez needs to shut up, but if you and me are not medieval subjects of any king, and if history teached us the need to respect an order where we all have the same rights in face of the law, we should agree that it is not a king who should made Chavez to shut up, it was the task of the guy next to him, called Zapatero, the legitimate representative of Spain. And yes, Spain is behaving with arrogance with its former colonies, and this a truth that almost any Southamerican I know would state.

It is not that I´m not liking people calling me of. I´m here because I face the criticism, I defend my convictions and I don´t run.


About being arrogant, ask a Guatemalan or anyone from Central American what do they think about Mexico?:fork:

[Lancero]

Yes, you are quite right. Saturday night stuff, you know ;-) My apologies

No worries

I just wonder if Chavez will pay the eight patrol vessels he ordered from Spain.

[U W]

That´s one of my points. The other being that Spain is trying to act as if the colonial times were not over.

Not that I'm an expert, but I've been listening to a lot of old Latin American news audio clips (DLPT here I come), anyways King Juan Carlos has long mediated disputes between Latin American countries.

I believe that with colonial ties come a lot of cultural ties (like language). History and common perspective go a long way.

Once again I'm no expert, but in the news clips I've seen, Chavez never insults the King. I think there is still a lot of respect for the man in Latin America. If the countries thought he was a relic of colonial times they would ask that he not to be there.

[joemanu]

That´s one of my points. The other being that Spain is trying to act as if the colonial times were not over.

That is the only one you are partially right. If you think private companies investing money in South America to make bussiness is the same as colonial ocupation, you know very little history. And If they are charging too much, the market will put them where they deserve. Maybe the Argentinians don't like a higher telephone bill, who does, but the ones I know recognize that the y also like telephones that work.

[Chulo]

This is all stupid.. and this is what it all boils down to, no matter what position they hold or what happened in the past.

People are trying to talk, some one is being rude and interrupting, and some one tells him to shutup.

- That is what it all boils down to , should person number 2 not said shutup? well maybe, but mainly person number 1 should have had some manners and shut up untill it was his time to speak.. thats just common sense and basic manners.

[AROUETLJ]

I think that Chavez is a gorilla, but nevertheless I insist, the President of Spain was there and he should have imposed respect on Chavez. Diplomatically speaking it is the most irregular that an unelected and symbolical figure intervened like this.

What "symbolical figure"? He's the Head of State of Spain, as every fule kno.

[foxtrot023]

During the XVII ibero american meeting, Chavez had launched a diatribe to Spain´s previous president- Aznar. On Spain´s turn Chavez continued calling Aznar a Fascist, etc, interrupting the current president´s turn, till the King of Spain suddenly told Hugo Chavez- WHY DON´T YOU SHUT UP! (in spanish ¨porque no te callas?¨

hahaha funny stuff, here is the vid

http://videos.abc.es/informaciondecontenido.php?con=2870

ed. sorry found out there is another thread on this...pls delete

[Tempest]

During the XVII ibero american meeting, Chavez had launched a diatribe to Spain´s previous president- Aznar. On Spain´s turn Chavez continued calling Aznar a Fascist, etc, interrupting the current president´s turn, till the King of Spain suddenly tod Hugo Chavez- WHY DON´T YOU SHUT UP! (in spanish ¨porque no te callas?¨

hahaha funny stuff, here is the vid

http://videos.abc.es/informaciondecontenido.php?con=2870


There's no vid dude

[foxtrot023]

There's no vid dude

not sure what happened, try this link, front page

http://www.elmundo.es/

[Warlord]

I wonder if this news ever reached Venezuela at all or if they're able to discuss it.

Either way, Chavez is a cvnt.

[foxtrot023]

Boy, Chavez needs to shut up, but if you and me are not medieval subjects of any king, and if history teached us the need to respect an order where we all have the same rights in face of the law, we should agree that it is not a king who should made Chavez to shut up, it was the task of the guy next to him, called Zapatero, the legitimate representative of Spain. And yes, Spain is behaving with arrogance with its former colonies, and this a truth that almost any Southamerican I know would state.

It is not that I´m not liking people calling me of. I´m here because I face the criticism, I defend my convictions and I don´t run.

dude, STFU, and I happen to live in the region

[Solvent]

The first one works. Thanks, although I can't understand a word.:-(

[Zerazax]

Posted already in other thread

[theholeinthedonut]

Which level, care to explain?

You are showing it of quite clearly.....seems you are the only one not to realizte it though......never mind!



I think that Chavez is a gorilla, but nevertheless I insist, the President of Spain was there and he should have imposed respect on Chavez. Diplomatically speaking it is the most irregular that an unelected and symbolical figure intervened like this.


Pity it wans´t the elected President of Spain...


What happened is totally irregular and out of protocol. Article 56 of the Spanish Constitution grants to the King of Spain the representation of the country in the International Relations. But then in this Summit there were TWO heads of State for Spain. Who was representing Spain, the elected President or a symbolic figure whose role is already challenged in his country?


I did´nt choose to criticize the king of Spain for restoring the order, but because he´s not the person intended to restore the order. The one he was using his turn to talk was the President of Spain, he should´ve imposed his right, then the authority was of the designated President of the Summit. If these two failed, then diplomatic mechanisms should have penalized Chavez and his country for that outside of the summit. I care who does the correcting because we are not in the times of paternalistic monarchist powers. Or are we brainless citizens of countries that can´t cope with a tyrannnical gorilla?


I´m not changing my focus, the focus is changing while the discussion evolves.

If the (once) elected President of Venezuela interrupts the elected President of Spain, the elected President of Spain is the person to say "shut your mouth". I consider that the king exposed Zapatero to diplomatic ridicule and made him appear as a weak leader.

What is monarchy if not hierarchy and protocol? There´s protocol in the diplomatic sphere too, and the king broke the rules.


I´m not. Spain is trying to restore it´s influence in the former South American colonies through of a series of diplomatic and economic steps. Spanish companies are investing heavily in SouthAmerica and imposing very heavy tariffs to the point the citizens of Argentina or Peru for example are protesting for what they consider abusive prices. All this is done with arrogance of the Spanish officials and businessmen, and the hubris of the Spanish people.


I think that I´m not breaking any diplomatic rule if I tell you:

"Shut up bonehead, and do not participate in something you don´t understand"

[Buckeye67]

Do he thinks that Pres. Chavez is his subject?

No, I imagine he thought that Chavez was a rude ****ing douchebag who needed to be told to shut the **** up.

I agree with the sentiment.

[Tempest]

not sure what happened, try this link, front page

http://www.elmundo.es/

Grazie..

Chavez's a peasant.

IIRC, Khrushchev did something like that at the UN years ago

[Ordie]

King Juan Carlos deserves a lot of respect not so much of the recent summit in Santiago, but his devotion to his country and his leadership in Spain's democratic transition.

In his honor I'll drink a shot of "Bourbon".

-Salud

[Freibier]

No sympathy for monarchists from me, they should shut up forever.
Blueblood parasites

[Dercius]

IIRC, Khrushchev did something like that at the UN years ago

It is said that during a UN debate he removed his shoe and started to bang the table with it.

Anyway Chavez is an ungly rude orang-utan, he was trying to bully everyone during that meeting, Zapatero should have been the one to stop him, but it was more than obvious that he lacked the balls to do it (he was rising his arm and asking for "un momentito" permission to reply to chavez, just like a 7 year old school kid), Spanish king just saw that it was impossible to speak or reason with such an animal and during spanish turn just told him to shut up.should have been STFUp-)

I think that he was polite (more than Chavez deserved), after all, Chavez was the one who was speaking out of his turn, shouting and insulting.

All that stuff about spanish colonialism is just BS. Dont try to put the blame on Spain, after all they left South America two centuries ago. 60 Years ago Spain was on a civil war, and when WW2 was over it remained a poor and isolated country with its borders sealed and under an embargo till 1954. In less than 50 years it became one of the richest countries in the world 8th or 9th in the ranking.

Its time for countries in south america to assume their responsabilities and mistakes, they should start with putting out of office cleptocrats and wannabe dictators like Chavez, Morales, etc... If not, then look for a more interesting story and try to put the blame on Martians:):)

[Dercius]

Come on who can take chavez seriously??? ahahaha

[GETSOME]

Its about time someone told him to shut the **** up.

[Calanen]

The King is way more than a figurehead monarch in Spain. The King is revered in Spain by many, and it was the King that handed the people democracy after Franco died. It's a bit too simplistic to say that only the elected President should have said anything.

Frankly, the drinkswaiter would have had my vote to bitchslap Chavez.

[zad]

No sympathy for monarchists from me, they should shut up forever.
Blueblood parasites

two words, 23-F

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23-F


23 of February of 1981
...At 18:21, the different coup plots that had been fomenting since the beginning of the transition to democracy met in a coordinated action.
At 18:30, led by Lieutenant-Colonel Antonio Tejero, 200 guardias civiles took hostage the Congress of Deputies of Spanish parlament...
...Whilst almost all deputies dropped terrified on the floor, three kept standing defiantly: acting Minister of Defence Manuel Gutierrez Mellado, who stood up and ordered Tejero to desist; acting prime minister Adolfo Súarez, who remained sitting down instead of crouching on the floor; and communist leader Santiago Carillo, who, sitting down, calmly lit a cigarette and did not seem to be disturbed by the events...
...Shortly afterwards, the captain general of the 3rd military region, Jaime Milan del Bosch, rose up in Valencia, put tanks on the streets, declared a state of emergency and tried to convince other senior military figures to support the coup...
...Another insurgent general, Torres Rojas, failed in his intent to supplant General Juste in the Brunete Armored division of the military, relinquishing the ambition to occupy strategic points in the capital..
...The refusal of the King to promote the coup led to it being called off during the night. The monarch assured himself after discussions, personal and with colleagues, of the fidelity of military leaders...



...At 1:14 on February 24, the king interceded on television, in uniform as the Captain General of the Armed Forces (Capitán General de los Ejércitos), the highest Spanish military rank, to position himself against the insurgents, defend the Spanish Constitution and undermine the authority of Milans del Bosch. At that moment, the coup was taken to be a failure
the assault to the congress:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDLTNqi-Emk
the speech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6kWPzaM4mI
translation:

The crown, symbol of of the permanence and unity of the country, can´t tolerate in any way, actions or attitudes of persons who try to interrupt by force the democratic process that the constitution voted by the spanish people determined back in day trought referendum


I am republican by the way, it is just that I respect very much that guy as person, not as monarch. p-)

[Tokamak]

That's pretty much why a Spanish friend told me he liked the King.

[JanusHu]

Our king did what he had to do, Hugo Chavez was all the time interrupting the other speechers.
I feel sorry for the venezolans, they don´t deserve a president like Hugo Chavez.

[DanteXavier]

Props to the king for saying what needed to be said.

[Kilgor]

Sometimes even the most graceful people when confronted with complete douche bags will loose their cool.

Its good to be the king.

+1 rep.

[CreepingDeath]

Kodus for the king!

[xepharo]

X2, i feel bad for Venezuelans as well to have a president like that.

[Scotus]

It is said in the article. But what hits me right in the middle of the eye is Spain´s elected President being there, who the hell is the king to intervene in the scuffle, specially in this manner against the President of a former colony. Do he thinks that Pres. Chavez is his subject?Actually Venezuela was never a Spanish "colony." Venezuela was formed as a sovereign republic in 1830 by José Antonio Páez by breaking away from the republic of Gran Colombia founded by Simón Bolívar. Gran Colombia, in turn, was not really a former "colony" of Spain but was formerly a monarchy known as the Kingdom of New Granada, in which, for example, King Carlos III de Borbón [1716-1788] was the monarch seperately, in theory, from his role in the Kingdom of Spain.

[theholeinthedonut]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7089988.stm

It goes on.

[Dercius]

I was hearing Chavez today, and he said that Spanish King was lucky that he didnt heard telling Him to "Shut up":):):):), thats what I would call a coward´s excuse.

Its just hillarious this Chavez.p-)p-)p-)

[Doublethinker]

Chavez is a sad clown, of course. But Juan Carlos was brought to power by a fascist.

Looks like Chavez hit some weak spots accidentally ;)

[Buckeye67]

^-custom title at work.

[Lazy Lob]

^-custom title at work.

Couldn't agree with you more.

[timetraveller]

Our king did what he had to do, Hugo Chavez was all the time interrupting the other speechers.
I feel sorry for the venezolans, they don´t deserve a president like Hugo Chavez.


That sort of behaviour if done by anyone else that Chavez did would have resulted in a crack across the jaw ..and a lot more

It's not proper behaviour that such a leader should be seen to do in Public turn it shows what a complete whalloper Chavez really is ..

No wonder he is call "CHAV "- EZ

[theholeinthedonut]

^-custom title at work.

X3........ total and utter ignorance at it's best!!!
But still we do not refrain from spoutting out our sheer stupidity! Everyboody shall see....everybody shall know!!!

[sp2c]

It is said in the article. But what hits me right in the middle of the eye is Spain´s elected President being there, who the hell is the king to intervene in the scuffle, specially in this manner against the President of a former colony. Do he thinks that Pres. Chavez is his subject?

he's just faster then everybody else that's all ... there's a reason why they turned off Chavez' microphone

[zad]

Chavez is a sad clown, of course. But Juan Carlos was brought to power by a fascist.

Looks like Chavez hit some weak spots accidentally ;)

You seem to forget that he started inmediatly the transition to democracy giving all the power to a transition goverment, you seem to forget also that his intervention was crucial to stop the coup de etat of 1981.



After Franco's death, Juan Carlos I quickly instituted democratic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy) reforms, to the great displeasure of Falangist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falangist) and conservative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism) (monarchist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchist)) elements, especially in the military, who had expected him to maintain the authoritarian state. He appointed Adolfo Suárez (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolfo_Su%C3%A1rez), a former leader of the Movimiento Nacional (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movimiento_Nacional_%28Spain%29), as Prime Minister of Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_Government_of_Spain).
On 20 May (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_20) 1977 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977), the leader of the only-recently legalized Spanish Socialist Workers' Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Socialist_Workers%27_Party) (PSOE) Felipe González (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felipe_Gonz%C3%A1lez), accompanied by Javier Solana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javier_Solana), visited Juan Carlos in the Zarzuela Palace. The event represented a key endorsement of the monarchy from Spain's political left (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left), who had been historically republican (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism). Left-wing support for the monarchy grew when the Communist Party of Spain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Spain) was legalized shortly thereafter, a move Juan Carlos had pressed for, despite enormous right-wing military opposition at that time, during the Cold War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War).
On 15 June (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_15) 1977 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977), Spain held its first post-Franco democratic elections. In 1978, a new Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Constitution_of_1978) was promulgated that acknowledged Juan Carlos as rightful heir of the Spanish dynasty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasty) and King. This language justified Juan Carlos' position by deeming him Head of State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_of_State) of a democratic, historical monarchy, and not simply the appointed heir of the dictator Franco. The Constitution was passed by the democratically elected Cortes Generales, ratified by the people in a referendum and then signed into law by the King before a solemn meeting of the Cortes.
Further legitimacy had been restored to Juan Carlos´ position on 14 May (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_14) 1977 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977), when his father, Don Juan (whom many monarchists had recognized as the legitimate, exiled King of Spain during the Franco era), formally renounced his claim to the Throne and recognized his son as the sole head of the Spanish Royal House, transferring to him the historical heritage of the Spanish monarchy, thus making Juan Carlos both the de facto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_facto) and the de jure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_jure) (rightful) King in the eyes of the traditional monarchists. Juan Carlos, who was already King since Franco's death, gave an acceptance address after his father’s resignation speech and thanked him by confirming the title of Count of Barcelona (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Counts_of_Barcelona) that Don Juan had assumed in exile.
Under the new 1978 Constitution Juan Carlos relinquished absolute power and became a reigning but non-ruling monarch. The reforms of these years attracted considerable animosity from the armed forces, which ultimately culminated in an attempted military coup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23-F) on 23 February (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_23) 1981 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981), in which the Cortes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortes_Generales) was seized by members of the Guardia Civil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardia_Civil) in the parliamentary chamber (see 23-F (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23-F)). According to the widely accepted version, the coup ended up being thwarted by the public television broadcast by the King, calling for unambiguous support for the legitimate democratic government. In the hours before his speech, he had personally called many senior military figures to tell them that he was opposed to the coup, and that they had to defend the democratic government.....
....After the collapse of the attempted coup mentioned above, however, in an emotional statement, Carrillo told television viewers: "God save the King." The Communist leader also remarked: "Today, we are all monarchists." If public support for the monarchy among democrats and leftists prior to 1981 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981) had been limited, following the King's handling of the coup, it became significantly greater. According to a poll by "Sigma Dos" published in the newspaper El Mundo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Mundo_%28Spain%29) in November (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November) 2005 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005), 77.5% of Spaniards thought Juan Carlos was "good or very good", 15.4% "not so good", and only 7.1% "bad or very bad"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_I_of_Spain

[AOCBravo2004]

Hail to the king baby!

[Doublethinker]

X3........ total and utter ignorance at it's best!!!
But still we do not refrain from spoutting out our sheer stupidity! Everyboody shall see....everybody shall know!!!


Why do you keep trolling for my attention? Are you that lonely?

[Doublethinker]

You seem to forget that he started inmediatly the transition to democracy giving all the power to a transition goverment, you seem to forget also that his intervention was crucial to stop the coup de etat of 1981.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_I_of_Spain

Coup d'etat? Oh please, Franco's supporters, didn't even have a decent leader, and this coup failed as soon as it started. Even Soviet coup in 1993 got much more far.

Moreover, Carlos and Co. bribed their way out of his deal with Franco - Franco breed still remains filthy rich even in modern Spain. Who knows what kind of deal Carlos struck with senile Franco to make sure, that he allows him to reign with his blessing.


Aznar too was a prominent member of Spanish falanga. So Chavez wasn't that far away from the truth, if we face the facts ;)

Just like Russian officials are mainly commies who eagerly traded 'the rule of the Party' for 'democracy', many of Spanish officials have a background in the fascist movement.

[zad]

Coup d'etat? Oh please, Franco's supporters, didn't even have a decent leader, and this coup failed as soon as it started. Even Soviet coup in 1993 got much more far.

Moreover, Carlos and Co. bribed their way out of his deal with Franco - Franco breed still remains filthy rich even in modern Spain. Who knows what kind of deal Carlos struck with senile Franco to make sure, that he allows him to reign with his blessing.


Aznar too was a prominent member of Spanish falanga. So Chavez wasn't that far away from the truth, if we face the facts ;)

Just like Russian officials are mainly commies who eagerly traded 'the rule of the Party' for 'democracy', many of Spanish officials have a background in the fascist movement.

Wow, that is what I call improvement spirit, you are clearly doing your best to get the Dumbarse of the week award again!!!

GO Doublethinker GO!!! don´t let your limitations get between you and your dream !!!!!! woot

[foxtrot023]

Coup d'etat? Oh please, Franco's supporters, didn't even have a decent leader, and this coup failed as soon as it started. Even Soviet coup in 1993 got much more far.

Moreover, Carlos and Co. bribed their way out of his deal with Franco - Franco breed still remains filthy rich even in modern Spain. Who knows what kind of deal Carlos struck with senile Franco to make sure, that he allows him to reign with his blessing.


Aznar too was a prominent member of Spanish falanga. So Chavez wasn't that far away from the truth, if we face the facts ;)

Just like Russian officials are mainly commies who eagerly traded 'the rule of the Party' for 'democracy', many of Spanish officials have a background in the fascist movement.

you might just get to be MP.net back to back dumbarse of the week! woot

[Doublethinker]

Any more copy-pasted "witty" comments with no substance, but ad hominem attacks?

I should warn though, I don't give alms on Saturdays, so make it quick ;)

[foxtrot023]

Any more copy-pasted "witty" comments with no substance, but ad hominem attacks?

I should warn though, I don't give alms on Saturdays, so make it quick ;)

how about sticking to facts instead of opinion hotshot

[Doublethinker]

how about sticking to facts instead of opinion hotshot

How about you say that to posters on previous 6 pages? ;)

Discussion about politics is always a discussion about opinions. The fact, that mine isn't in the same boat as yours doesn't really make your attempts to marginalize it all too clever. It only shows that you argue dishonestly, preferring character-killing to arguementation.

[foxtrot023]

How about you say that to posters on previous 6 pages? ;)

Discussion about politics is always a discussion about opinions. The fact, that mine isn't in the same boat as yours doesn't really make your attempts to marginalize it all too clever. It only shows that you argue dishonestly, preferring character-killing to arguementation.


Stop dancing around the issue, answer these questions-


Coup d'etat? Oh please, Franco's supporters, didn't even have a decent leader, and this coup failed as soon as it started.

please state the leaders, and why are they so disqualified?


Moreover, Carlos and Co. bribed their way out of his deal with Franco -

Please state the amounts, and or information on this, any source? or just data being pulled from the arse?


Who knows what kind of deal Carlos struck with senile Franco to make sure, that he allows him to reign with his blessing.

Once again, please post references not opinions


Aznar too was a prominent member of Spanish falanga.

As a teenager, Aznar was a member of the Frente de Estudiantes Sindicalistas (FES), a student union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_union) which was a branch of the Falange Española Independiente (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Falange_Espa%C3%B1ola_Independiente&action=edit) (FEI), then a current of the falangist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falange) official party.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Maria_Aznar#_note-2) After the death of Francisco Franco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco) and the restoration of democracy, Aznar joined the People's Alliance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Alliance) (AP) in January 1979 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979),

hardly prominent but let us not place facts that might distort your fantasy world


Just like Russian officials are mainly commies who eagerly traded 'the rule of the Party' for 'democracy', many of Spanish officials have a background in the fascist movement.

Once again, who?

not that it is not true what you argue, however present facts, not opinions, till then I will continue to think you are clueless

[Lazy Lob]

Please state the amounts, and or information on this, any source? or just data being pulled from the arse?


I second foxtrots023's request. Please state sources and back your statements up.

[Boina verde]

King Juan Carlos I is my hero!

[RICHICOQUI]

this is from one of opposition blogs from venezula http://blogs.salon.com/0001330/

[Kippari]

Hahaha! Viva el Rey!
That really showed him who's the King and who's the retarded monkey.

[RSone]

Chavez has to learn that calling someone a fascist is NOT done in Europe. ESPECIALLY not in SPAIN(Franco, Civil War etc.)

[LineDoggie]

Everyone's pacience has a limit. Zapatero called for "respect" and Chavez continued bulling. He got what he deserved.

Here's (http://www.elpais.com/) the video
My natural disdain for Royalty was just upended, Good Drills Juan Carlos