An American in Cannes...

[fdt]

I saw this individual's speech at the Cannes Festival... huh that was a bizarre and embarassing show... First it was Michael Jackson, now is Michael Moore... I've lost all the respect I had for him...
:cantbeli:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40163000/jpg/_40163901_moore3_afp_story203.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3720569.stm

Moore film shows 'US Iraqi abuse'

By Ian Youngs
BBC News Online correspondent in Cannes

The film criticises the Bush administration
Oscar-winning director Michael Moore has screened at Cannes what he claims is the first film footage of US soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners.
It appears in his new documentary, Fahrenheit 9/11 which also explores alleged connections between the Bush and Bin Laden families.

The abuse "occurred in the field - outside the prison walls", Moore told the film festival.

The White House declined to comment on this issue.

Moore's film, which received its world premiere in Cannes, France, on Monday, shows what appear to be US soldiers putting hoods on Iraqi prisoners.

Moore, who won an Oscar last year for Bowling For Columbine, said he sent three under-cover film crews to Iraq.

"You saw this morning the first footage of abuse and humiliation of these Iraqi detainees," he told reporters on Monday.

What this film is going to do is to peel back the layers so the [American] people can see what is really going on

Michael Moore on one example of alleged abuse

The world had seen now notorious photographs from Abu Ghraib prison, near Baghdad - but no photos or footage from outside a prison until now, he said.

On Saturday, President Bush said he would not allow any more abuses by US troops in Iraq. But he also said the abuses were restricted to Abu Ghraib.

Soldiers in Moore's film were shown outdoors ridiculing a man covered in a blanket on the ground, calling him "Ali Baba".

"It was an older man who was actually drunk, and it was early in the morning, and he was lying on the ground on a stretcher with a blanket over him," Moore said.

The footage was shot in Samarra in December 2003, he told BBC News Online, but did not reply when asked which military division was involved.

He said it was "disgraceful" that it took him, using stringers and freelance camera crews in Iraq, to bring such footage to the public.

The director's movie has been the talk of the festival

"The American people do not like things being kept from them, and I think what this film is going to do is to peel back the layers so the people can see what is really going on," he said.

"They are going to be shocked and they are going to be in awe - and they are going to respond accordingly, he said - alluding to his aim of convincing voters not to re-elect Mr Bush in November's presidential election.

The film also alleges Saudis, including those with links to the Bin Laden family, had funded oil and arms companies run by the Bush family and their inner circle. And the film claims the military operation in Afghanistan was carried out purely so a natural gas pipeline could be built through the country.

Moore has said the White House has tried to stop the film being made and released because they are afraid of the effect it could have on November's election.

He told BBC News Online someone "connected to the White House" and a "top Republican" had put pressure on film companies not to fund Fahrenheit 9/11.

When asked what evidence he had, he said: "I only know what I was told by my agent. That's all I know.

"I don't know who made the calls. I don't know what was said."

'Not shocked'

Film studio Disney has refused to distribute the film and Moore is now having trouble finding another distributor to release the film on his preferred 4 July release date.


Moore has alleged the invasion of Afghanistan was for a pipeline to be built

Film critic Derek Malcolm gave his verdict on the film to News Online, saying: "I think it's over-long and quite boring in parts but it is strong in other sections.

"It is a more even-handed offering than Moore's previous films. But one is not very shocked by the film. It certainly won't win [John] Kerry the [US] election."

And the Hollywood Reporter described it as "angry polemic against the president, the Bush family and the administration's foreign policy".

"There is no debate, no analysis of facts or search for historical context. Moore simply wants to blame one man and his family for the mess we are now in," it said.
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[ExtraT]

First it was Michael Jackson, now is Michael Moore... I've lost all the respect I had for him...

You had any? rofl

[fdt]

First it was Michael Jackson, now is Michael Moore... I've lost all the respect I had for him...

You had any? roflA bit... to humbly admit... :oops: .

[Herrmannek]

Fdt you made good impression about yourself, but now you are falling straight down on my worth to listen list :) :hug:

[Damian]

He isn't American.... He's a MF a**

[fdt]

http://www.racingtrack.de/****_award/bilder/****.gif

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/graphics/michaelmoore_jackass.jpg

[Mark Sman]

Michael Moore is a fraud. He peddles crap to people that believe it.

He is responsible for creating alot of BS in peoples minds while at the same time claiming to be working to help people.

What a self-agrandizing chuckle head.

[Kilgor]

Moore is a lying, anti american fat pile of ****.

No wonder the french love him.

[scm77]

Moore, who won an Oscar last year for Bowling For Columbine, said he sent three under-cover film crews to Iraq.

He had to send undercover film crews 'cuz if he went an american soldier probably would have shot him. Or they could have used him as a bunker. rofl

It says the video shows them putting hoods on the prisoners heads. Big ****ing deal! :bash:

[SFontaine]

They also called a drunk man Ali Baba! This is the next My Lai folks!

[Vance]

They also called a drunk man Ali Baba! This is the next My Lai folks!
Oh my God oh my God oh my God oh my God oh my God

[Smoothie104]

Before you call him Anti-American, see "Roger and me" about GM President Roger Smith laying off 30,000 workers in a town of 150,000.

I can't think of a whole lot, thats more anti-american, than re-locating General Motors factories to Mexico.

[Kilgor]

They also called a drunk man Ali Baba! This is the next My Lai folks!

The horror.... the horror....

[n4292936]

I love it! rofl MM is such a **** stirrer, ruffling conservative sensabilities the way he does.....
Alright, so he's as left as they come but I for one thought his Bowling for Columbine was pretty entertaining - especially when Charlton Heston walked out on the interview cause he didnt want to answer pointed questions :petting: Good stuff i say. Ill be seeing this film! :D
and in reply to another post here: I agree, who gives a **** that it shows prisoners having hoods put on their heads, interrogations arent supposed to be all ****s and giggles. THAT whole episode is just turning retarded :bash:
Good point above about his film regarding working middle America

[front]

Michael Moore is a fraud. He peddles crap to people that believe it.

He is responsible for creating alot of BS in peoples minds while at the same time claiming to be working to help people.

What a self-agrandizing chuckle head.

We'll wait until we see the film... thank you.

"Roger And Me" is the film you need to watch my friend. I suggest that you might search it out in your nearest video store and give it an airing.

"Chuckle head"? Moore is not laughing... and his films are not produced to make Americans laugh.

cheers

front

[martinexsquaddie]

yeah home of freedom of speech until you upset George REAL SMART rofl
NOW EVERYBODY HAS HEARD OF THE FILM :lol:
YOU COULD'NT BUY THAT SORT OF PUBLICITY :lol:

[fdt]

yeah home of freedom of speech until you upset George REAL SMART rofl
NOW EVERYBODY HAS HEARD OF THE FILM :lol:
YOU COULD'NT BUY THAT SORT OF PUBLICITY :lol:I'm not a Yank, I don't like Bush neither his gang (to make this clear). I was refering only to his speech in cannes as i haven't seen the movie. Read a transcript (if there is any on web) or watch the news...

Freedom of speech -Yeah.
Anti war propaganda - Yeah.
Anti - Bush political propaganda - Yeah.
Should that movie be banned - Nay.
Should Disney have right not to distribute Moore's film - Yeah
(Why nobody complaints that Toys R'Us don't sell Armalite's products?)
Should the film distribution be banned in US - Nay.
Should the film be screened in US - Yeah (In some countries - like N. Korea, Saudi Arabia, Cuba etc... distributors would queue for it, if there would be more distributors than the one govt run)
Should Michael Moore be criticism free - Nay

Living in a countries that have the freedom of speech for decades people usually tend to take it for granted. I myself have been exposed too damn long to shameless and lie commie propaganda that Mr Moore reminded me yesterday with his speech. Should such a propagandist attitude be banned? Nay, but neither should be a right to say that it is a propaganda... nothing "moore" nothing less. Was the speech smart? Huh... IMHO... all but smart and intelligent... Sort of opposite sign Mc Carthy finesse (Urban style - for those who knew the J.Urban :slap: ).... real embarassment and scatology.

One moore thing I forgot to mention. People in the West know all about the freedom of speech except for one You've all tend not to be awrare of the real price of this freedom. Those were You grand grand grand parents who had to pay it, You all have just inherited it. The price was paid in my country by my generation... so I know how costly and precious thing it is. It takes moral responsibility, civil courage to put Your own personal freedom and sometimes life at stake. Moore's speech wasn't worth a dime in this categories. It was cheap as he talked to the people who craved to hear what he had to say... Michael Moore and freedom of speech... huh good joke, rather Michael Moore and his self promotion... Nothing moore.

[ZeroPositive]

Seen him live in London he is not as great in person has a hard time stiring up the people in the audience but was alright to watch, with him like all the things he has done he lacks that certain approach he has on film in person :(
Still interesting guy.

[Mark Sman]

I've seen "Roger and Me"

Probably his only work I actually thought worth seeing.

I've seen a bunch of his stuff. A shame its not intended to make Americans laugh as that is about the only thing the are good for.

[Retard]

Before you call him Anti-American, see "Roger and me" about GM President Roger Smith laying off 30,000 workers in a town of 150,000.

I can't think of a whole lot, thats more anti-american, than re-locating General Motors factories to Mexico.

Did GM move the factory or did the union?

My Dad's cousin worked for GM as a secretary. She made $20,000 more a year & had better benefits than my Dad who as a Masters Degree & worked as a programmer for NASA (Cost of Living was about the same).

I work in the aerospace industry & unions have destroyed the company’s ability to manufacture effectively.

Here’s an example: We were installing a new device on an aircraft & we needed it done over the weekend. Only one guy knew how to properly install it. However, he was not the most senior guy in his department. Union rules state that the most senior “qualified” guy gets first shot at overtime pay. So, 3 more senior guys sat on their a$$ all weekend at overtime rate while this young guy did the work.

Here’s an example from yesterday: we just got a new hire. We needed a phone line added for him. However, the line in his cube needed to be used in the next cube. We had to fill out 2 requests (1 to move old line into correct cube & 1 to add a new line for the new hire). However, the union phone guy would only do one request at a time. He came in one day & connected the new hire to the existing line and then came in the next day & undid all the worked he did the previous day. We tried to explain the 1st day what we needed done, but he didn’t care.

Or the time I got a grievance filed against me because I had a screw in my hand (salary people can’t have parts in their hands).
The list goes on & on.

[Mamon]

For anyone wondering about Michael Moore's credibility, wonder no further: http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
about the movie "Bowling for Columbine specifically, and here about him in general:
http://www.mooreexposed.com/

[mi35d]

There are more than enough websites out there that explain all of the fabricated elements that go into a MM production. He's nothing more than a modern yellow journalist.

Bowling for Columbine: The interview with Charlton Heston is a good example. MM stated that the interview was shown in its entirety - a little less than 10 minutes. Yet, when you look in the background you can see a clock that clearly shows more than an hour has passed. Hmmm...

Then there's the creative editing and taking comments out of context. He took quotes from CH that occured BEFORE Columbine and chained them together to make it look as though CH was making these statements after the shooting.

There's the factory near the town that makes sattelite components and MM calls it "a war factory that produces missiles of death".

Then again, there's the title of his last movie itself - "Bowling for Columbine". The story that the killers were bowling before they went on their shooting rampage was proven time and again to be false. But MM felt that the truth didn't fit into his nice little world.

As for his present movie, "The Bush family and Bin Laden's family know each other!". Well, duh. The Bush family is heavily invested in oil. So is the legitimate side of Bin Laden's family. (Who have repeatedly disowned their terrorist relative over the years.) ANYONE doing business in Saudi Arabia that is connected to oil will be doing business with the Bin Laden family - its a fact of life.

His political opinions and his vitriol are well known.

[n4292936]

There are more than enough websites out there that explain all of the fabricated elements that go into a MM production. He's nothing more than a modern yellow journalist.
....His political opinions and his vitriol are well known.

Ill bet this has pissed Fox News right off :fork:
They've finally got some competition rofl

[Mamon]

Ill bet this has pissed Fox News right off :fork:
They've finally got some competition rofl
Maybe you should take the time to read those websites?

[n4292936]

Oh I did, well the first one anyway, and Im not disputing the content. The "documentaries" were clearly intended to influence and sway opinions.

[Loco]

Hi to all. Just one note: The sign of the true strenght of popular american culture is that everybody listened of Michael Moore in Europe but few people saw his documentals, beginning with that about the shootings of Columbine?(spell?). I don´t know if Disney distributed that movie in europe, but I didn´t see it exhibited in any Cinema Hall around my house. Anyway, those americans critizesing Moore perhaps ignore that he will bring millions dollars back USA with his "anti-american" documentals. I can´t comment his works because I didn´t see them.
And Disney: I read some confussion thing about Disney. One job is producing a movie, and a different job is distributing that movie. Usually, big american companies search to control both production and distribution in Spain, I talk of what I know, but the exhibition locals here have strong links with local distributors which sometimes are producers too of spanish movies, of course spanish market is very small compared with USA, but if an american producer wants to exhibit all across Spain his movies and don´t control any distributor here, he usually allies with an spanish distributor. The main american distributors are stablished in Spain since many years ago, so they too distibute in Spain american movies that they didn´t produced or nor distributed in USA, just because they are "here" and they know the local market, and that´s the Disney case. Disney is not only Mickey and Minney Mouse, it´s a huge corporation that does everything: makes and produces movies, and distributes movies across the world, Spain included, not to mention the other branches of business, and so Disney introduces through its net in Spain american products of other producers, and that´s include **** movies. I find that if Disney has produced Moore´s movie and signed a contract for distributing his movie, Disney is oblied to do the job, other thing than that is pure and simple censorship, and USA, by now, is a democracy.
When I was in college the third course, I got a little job for earning some money translating screen movies from english to spanish, my english as you know is very bad, but the boss was a friend of mine and the screens were of **** movies, so what I had in my hands weren´t Shakespeare´s opus, he gave me usually 10 or 15 pages of twenty written lines in english or some times I had to write the screen only listening to them, and I got 3 euros free of taxes for every page translated. If the movies were europeans the job was easier because they talked an elemental english like me and usually they talked more than in american movies, so I earned more money :D , but when movies were americans then it took me more time translating if they used a colloquial vocabulary. Usually, the american ****s movies, specially the best quality ones that were exhibited in public cinemas or in tve were distributed in Spain by the Disney distribution company in Spain, and if some spanish are reading me, many of these movies were those broadcasted in Canal+ friday late night. Btw, that studios were a typical "estudios de doblaje"(sound studios?) that worked in everything related with sound, the **** movies only were a little part of their job, big movies like Titanic or tv series were dubbed there too but for expert translators, of course(in Spain, movies and foreing series are played with their original voices changed by those of spanish actors). Rocco Sigfriedi and Bambi, what a couple, true as life! p-)

[Jehuty]

I saw Bowling for Columbine.
It sucked except the Charlton Heston interview.

[Mamon]

Yeah I remember my brother and I would listen to Canal+ sometimes because of the noises! :D Most of the time it was just futbol though rofl When I live in Sevilla I lived near to the Estudios de Doblaje for Canal Sur ;) They should distribute Torrentes and Dia de la Bestia in America, get a taste of Spanish humor! :)

sorry for off topic p-)

[Uncle Chô]

Hi to all. Just one note: The sign of the true strenght of popular american culture is that everybody listened of Michael Moore in Europe but few people saw his documentals, beginning with that about the shootings of Columbine?(spell?). I don´t know if Disney distributed that movie in europe, but I didn´t see it exhibited in any Cinema Hall around my house.
Exactly. Ask the everage Euro citizen in the street I'll bet very few people will even know him. He sometimes received good comments from movies reviewers and critics as well as a few intellectual leftists but that's all.

For example 260 000 spectators watched "Bowling for Columbine" in France where " The Matrix reloaded " scored 6 millions viewers... ;)

[fdt]

Yeah I remember my brother and I would listen to Canal+ sometimes because of the noises! :D Most of the time it was just futbol though rofl When I live in Sevilla I lived near to the Estudios de Doblaje for Canal Sur ;) They should distribute Torrentes and Dia de la Bestia in America, get a taste of Spanish humor! :)

sorry for off topic p-)"Dia de la Bestia" ... absolutely cool and wacked stuff... The directors name is a good joke in this context... de la Iglesia rofl . I must humbly admit that this movie took me by surprise. I've been jumping on the channels and seen smth... irst thought was eeehhh Spanish movie.... and then .... No more words ... a must see!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112922/

[FRO]

An interesting anti-union rant, to which I feel compelled to answer. I'm weak that way. ;)



I work in the aerospace industry & unions have destroyed the company’s ability to manufacture effectively.

Here’s an example: We were installing a new device on an aircraft & we needed it done over the weekend. Only one guy knew how to properly install it. However, he was not the most senior guy in his department. Union rules state that the most senior “qualified” guy gets first shot at overtime pay. So, 3 more senior guys sat on their a$$ all weekend at overtime rate while this young guy did the work.

If those three guys sitting on their @$$es couldn't do the job, they weren't qualified. This was a management problem. You can't blame workers for taking advantage of a company that would screw them in their @$$es first chance it got. Either the guy is qualified or he is not, bottom line. Just because the manager doesn't have the backbone to deal with it, don't blame the union.



Here’s an example from yesterday: we just got a new hire. We needed a phone line added for him. However, the line in his cube needed to be used in the next cube. We had to fill out 2 requests (1 to move old line into correct cube & 1 to add a new line for the new hire). However, the union phone guy would only do one request at a time. He came in one day & connected the new hire to the existing line and then came in the next day & undid all the worked he did the previous day. We tried to explain the 1st day what we needed done, but he didn’t care.


So you've complained to him. Did you complain to his supervisor, or the manager for the section? Did you complain to him, he ignored your complaint and you then fumed and blamed the evil union?



Or the time I got a grievance filed against me because I had a screw in my hand (salary people can’t have parts in their hands).
The list goes on & on.

And what happened with that grievance? Was it successful?

Yes, the grievance process can be abused. It's unfortunate, but I haven't seen a solution to that. The grievance process is necessary because employers actually try to break the contract with workers. (*gasp* Say it ain't so!) In fact, some workplaces are downright hostile to workers. The workers need a method in which to bring abuses to light. The court systems also have examples of flagrant abuse. Shall we shut those down as well?

The fact is that workers are well aware that corporations see them as little more than numbered cogs, and those cogs only have value as money-makers. They are not human, they do not have families and they have no intrinsic value beyond their ability to make the company/corporation/employer-of-any-kind money. But it's the union's fault because these workers aren't motivated to act like good corporate peons? I'm sorry, I don't buy that.

I've worked as a union worker and I've managed union workers. From my experience I have found that managers are too frightened or too lazy to actual try to do their jobs, and they then blame it on the "union." I know of no contract that outlaws disciplinary action, the problem is managers are too lazy to document the problems so that when the union tries to protect its worker--which it is duty bound to do--management can lay out its case. If a worker is always late, tell the worker next time, he'll get written up. He complains to the union, the union comes to you and flexes their muscle, the only thing you have to do is say "where in the contract is he allowed to be late?" Unfortunately, it takes effort and backbone.

I was lucky, I had no problems in the section I managed. A friend of mine got promoted into an assistant manager position in the same organization. She was faced with an individual who was regularly abusive to co-workers and used sick days as holidays. My friend compiled a file on this individual, including statements from those co-workers who were willing to take action when abused. It came to a head when this worker was informed that for the next sick day, she would need a doctor's note. She brought in the union as she felt she was being unfairly treated. Faced with her pattern of Monday and/or Friday sick leaves weekly, the union couldn't do anything. They had to back off and she had to take her lumps. The abuse of coworkers never got to the union because she suddenly realized there was someone who would actually stand up to her, and she behaved herself.

So, if GM or whoever negotiates a lousy contract, that isn't the union's fault. If the workers take advantage of the contract, that's not the union's fault. If the workplace had been a happy, healthy place and employers had proved they actually valued their workers as something other than machinery, unions would not exist. And if unions ever disappear, you can expect employers to take advantage of that fact.

If you don't win the game, don't blame the rules.