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bas
05-17-2004, 10:16 PM
Hello all,

I thought you guys might enjoy a firearms website I'm building. The German and Russian guns are mine, British and American ones belong to a friend.

Enjoy: www.gunpics.net

Durandal
05-18-2004, 12:00 AM
We have a Class III FFL owner on the forum now?

Nice.

Nice pics.

Can you tell me you experience of getting your FFL? I have been considering it and have heard varied responses on the difficulty.

bas
05-18-2004, 12:11 AM
We have a Class III FFL owner on the forum now?

Nice.

Nice pics.

Can you tell me you experience of getting your FFL? I have been considering it and have heard varied responses on the difficulty.

Sorry I don't live in the States, so I don't have a clue about getting a Class III licence.

Durandal
05-18-2004, 12:26 AM
My appologies.

Ok, then I have some questions...

Are the full auto weapons on your website actually full auto?

If so, how are they handled under the gun laws of your nation?

Lastly, assuming the answer to the first question is a yes, then how did you go about aquiring them and was it difficult?

bas
05-18-2004, 12:53 AM
My appologies.
Ok, then I have some questions...
Are the full auto weapons on your website actually full auto?
If so, how are they handled under the gun laws of your nation?
Lastly, assuming the answer to the first question is a yes, then how did you go about aquiring them and was it difficult?

Edit: Yes they are full auto, and fully functioning, I'm just not allowed to shoot them.

The way our laws work, is that the owner is licensed. You need to apply to the police who do a background check, interview 2 character references and inspect your firearms locker. You then sit a safety test, which is all common sense.

In your application, you need to give a reason for wanting to own firearms, collecting, pest control, humane killing on the farm, hunting etc. Protection is NOT seen as a valid reason (even mace is illegal to carry here).

You now have your "A class" license. With it you can buy ammunition for any calibre and as many sporting rifles or shotguns as you want. With no further police/govt involvement.

To get additional classes added to your licence you need to have further reason i.e. competition pistol shooting, collecting and to be a commercial dealer. This requires genuine proof of the reason and additional character references who also have that class on their licence. You also need extra security.

B Class entitles you to shoot pistol. Which can only be done on an approved pistol range. Pistol clubs have a 6mth trial period where you learn pistol safety and competition rules before they will sponser your application. Also your club will be able to veto any pistol purchase, if it is not a "competition gun" (however this is very broad as there are many shooting disciplines). Shooting is done with live ammo.

C Class is the collectors class that entitles you to own anything under the sun. However when you apply you have to declear your collecting interest and they encourage you to stay within the boundries of your collection. This license applies to both pistols and full autos. These guns cannot legally shot with live ammo, ever (but they do work). Proof of collecting includes a libuary of books & magazines and club memberhips. Once you have the license the police cannot restrict what you buy as it is not their job to decide on how you engage in collecting.

D Class is for arms dealers who trade in guns. Special rules apply and the license is valid for a year (more a tax than real hinderence). You can purchase any firearm on this license.

E Class is for a category called M.S.S.A which is a political category and stands for Military Style Semi-Automatic. A MSSA is defined as a rifle with a magazine that holds more than 7 rounds (15 if .22 cal), has a pistol grip, flash suppressor or a bayonet lug. A typical example is the AR-15, Norinco Type-56 copies and SKS. You need a reason to apply for this license like competition shooting or pest eradication (over here they use helichopters to cull deer and thar in the alps).

All restricted weapons (B, C and E class) are registered to the owner. When you want to buy one, you need a permit from the police (go to central police station and fill out the form, walk out with the permit). Once you have the firearm you go back to the police station with the gun and permit, the serial number is checked and recorded on their database.

Make sense?

Durandal
05-18-2004, 01:10 AM
Makes sense...an interesting system.

And what nation is it?

bas
05-18-2004, 01:17 AM
Makes sense...an interesting system.

And what nation is it?

The country with the 3rd highest gun ownership in the world, New Zealand :D

(well we were, not sure if that is still true.)

Herrmannek
05-18-2004, 07:15 AM
Extra site..any chances for more?

GazB
05-18-2004, 08:38 AM
Hi bas, do you have an interest in Russian guns?

I have a few incuding some you have in your collection (ie Mosin Nagant 1891/30 rifle, and the 1938 and 1944 carbines, as well as a Chinese SKS and a chinese AKM civilianised (ie Type 56S).
I also have an L1A1 (SLR) and a few other sporting weapons.

ANGRY KIWI
05-18-2004, 12:05 PM
soon this forum will be ours muahahahahahahh

where u at bas?

bas
05-18-2004, 06:20 PM
Hi bas, do you have an interest in Russian guns?

I have a few incuding some you have in your collection (ie Mosin Nagant 1891/30 rifle, and the 1938 and 1944 carbines, as well as a Chinese SKS and a chinese AKM civilianised (ie Type 56S).
I also have an L1A1 (SLR) and a few other sporting weapons.

Hi GazB, yes I collect Russian and German guns from the Second World War. Are you a collector yourself? Looks like you're off to a good start :D

REMOV
05-18-2004, 07:26 PM
I thought you guys might enjoy a firearms website I'm building. The German and Russian guns are mine, British and American ones belong to a friend.

Enjoy: www.gunpics.netEkhm... you have a really great site, but as a Pole I must lodge a protest... :(

The 9mm pistol VIS wz.1935 is not a German weapon but Polish. The name P-35(p) is only the German designate of this gun (Yes, I know that during occupation they produced ca. 200 000 VIS'es under the 9mm Pistole 35(p) name, but still the real name and origins of this pistol are different). Similar you can put a Russian PPSh also to the German section and called it Maschinenpistole 717(r), because of that was also German designate of this submachinegun. The same is also with 9mm Browning or P-35(b).

http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/niemiecka_bron_strzelecka_pliki/vis_mag_nab_bt.gif

bas
05-18-2004, 07:35 PM
Ekhm... great site, but as a Pole I must lodge a protest... :(

The 9mm pistol VIS wz.1935 is not a German weapon but Polish. The name P-35(p) is only the German designate of this gun (Yes, I know that during occupation they produced ca. 200 000 VIS'es under the 9mm Pistole 35(p) name, but still the real name and origins of this pistol are different). Similar you can put a Russian PPSh also to the German section and called it Maschinenpistole 717(r), because of that was also German designate of this submachinegun.

You are of course correct, but as my pistol was manufactured during the German occupation is stamped as P.35(p) and was issued to the German Army, that's how I chose to describe it. The same applies to the P.35(b) or Browning HP.

I'm not trying to slur the Polish or the Belgiums, it just represents the place they have in my collection. Sorry to have upset you.

TacoDelRio
05-18-2004, 09:01 PM
Nice site.

The funnest part of having an automatic weapon is SHOOTING IT!

Come to Nevada, we'll have a party!

DB

GazB
05-19-2004, 05:10 AM
Hi GazB, yes I collect Russian and German guns from the Second World War. Are you a collector yourself? Looks like you're off to a good start

I do have a very strong interest but I just have a normal licence at the moment. Other WWII weapons I have include a Jungle Carbine (Mk5 Lee Enfield) that kicks less than the Mosin Nagant carbines in my opinion, and I also have a Mk4* Lee Enfield... the * in the designation refers to the fact that it was made in America by Savage for the British when they needed as many as they could get.

Mark Sman
05-19-2004, 07:40 AM
All hail the Lee-Enfield.
No seriously, on your knees and hail.
Thats better.

Durandal
05-19-2004, 09:47 AM
Come to Nevada, we'll have a party!

DB

Or Kentucky! ;)

Marmot1
05-19-2004, 06:17 PM
FB RADOM VIS Mod.35 Pat.1556... It is Polish stamp not german...

FB - FABRYKA BRONI (ARM'S FACTORY)

RADOM -FACTORY NAME, BUT ALSO CITY WHERE IT WAS PRODUCED

VIS- (WIS -Wilewicz Skrzypnicki later changet to VIS- from latin vis (power))

Mod.35-MODEL 35 [ not P-35(p) ]

Pat1556... - PATENT Number under which it was registered in polish patent registry...

Sorry to upset you but your pistol was either assembled from parts produced in poland prior to war or produced in conspiracy from parts stlen in FB factory (barrels were produced in underground factory Warsaw Leszno 18str-Germans moved production of barells to Steyer factory in austria).... There is no even german stamp on it or at least it is not visible, and germans were creazy about it...

EDIT... barel number match those on receiver so it cannot be underground production.
EDIT 2: Found it... yeah indeed it is germany produced one... end of 1944 before factory was evacuated to Austria...

http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/niemiecka_bron_strzelecka_pliki/vis_03.jpg
German one's had stamps (polish eagle remained on them)

http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/niemiecka_bron_strzelecka_pliki/viskrieg3.jpg
On receiver too

bas
05-19-2004, 07:10 PM
Marmot1,

Thank you for your comments, however I am reasonably well versed in the history of these pistols. From a collecting point of view there are 3 commonaly recoganised versions or grades:

Grade 1: the rarest and sought after model where made by Radom prior to the war and are of the best quality. There is a transition version like the one in your picture that has both the original Polish Eagle and the Wafenampt (I have seen one first hand).

Grade 2: These are the Radom pistols manufactured in Poland, in the Radom factory under German occupation, same as happened in Czechslovakia, France and Belgium. They are marked as your first picture including the German designation P.35(p) They do not display the Polish Eagle. My pistol is this version.

Grade 3: Last ditch production with parts taken from the Radom factory and assembled in the Steyr factory in Austria. These are very rough and are missing the de-cocking lever from the frame.

As this pistol was produced under German occupation for the German Army that is where I have included it. The same would be true for a Kar98k or MG-34 built in the BRNO factory.