Zogby Analyst Says Ron Paul Strongest Contender to Beat Hillary

[50lidu5]

This is cut and paste, thought it 2 be pretty interesting.

Zogby Analyst Says Ron Paul Strongest Contender to Beat Hillary
Texas Congressman's popularity amongst Democrats, Independents outstrips Giuliani, Romney, Thompson, Paul is only chance of smashing Bush-Clinton power monopoly

Prison Planet | November 21, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson

Zogby's Director of Communications and polling analyst Fritz Wenzel says that Congressman Ron Paul is the strongest of the Republican frontrunners to go up against Hillary Clinton, underlining the fact that the rest of the field are just ringers as the establishment prepares to install Clinton and prolong the Bush-Clinton power monopoly.
"Among Democrats, yes, he would be a much stronger candidate than any of the other three (Romney, Giuliani, Thompson)" Wenzel told the Alex Jones Show yesterday.
A new Zogby poll commissioned by Jones Productions found Ron Paul the GOP winner in a blind poll that included Democrats, Republicans and Independents nationwide.


"He is anti-war and the majority of Democrats are anti-war, he has some other ideas and policies and stances on issues more attractive to Democrats, particularly conservative Democrats," said Wenzel.
"Even among independents, he is far and away a more attractive candidate," he added.
As we have highlighted before , Ron Paul is the only Republican candidate who will not seek to lead the U.S. into a military confrontation with Iran, something that leading Democrats Obama, Clinton and Edwards have all vowed to keep "on the table."
Ron Paul voted against the war in Iraq and the Patriot Act, both of which were supported by Hillary Clinton.
Every other Republican candidate besides Ron Paul stands no chance of coming out on top if they go up against Hillary Clinton for the 2008 presidency.
Wenzel agreed that Ron Paul's momentum is something that outstrips all the other candidates and gives him a real chance of performing well.
"He's right on schedule," Wenzel said. "He's making all the right moves, going in the right direction...at a time when other candidates are not moving."
Wenzel based his analysis on recent nationwide polls that show Ron Paul could win in New Hampshire and find his support intensifying with room to gain.
"Here's why his timing is almost perfect. He's moving up...but it's not so early that he's going to get a big backlash," Wenzel added.
"6 weeks to 8 weeks out before an election is about the time if you're going to make a big move from the back to the front-- that's when you want to make it," he concluded.

[gaijinsamurai]

Interesting.
Honestly, nearly everyone I know hates Hillary, but also won't vote for Giuliani, McCain, or Romney.

[Undisputed4]

I personally am a fan of Obama. He seems like the most straight forward guy. Hilary seems like an evil person. IMO

[Rictor]

http://www.southpark-world.net/images/cartman_ch.gif

Nya nya nya nya nya nya, ha ha ha ha ha ha!

[Mu-Meson]

And this Zogby guy said this on the Alex Jones show? Ha! What a load of crap. Anyone heard of this 'blind' poll? Was it blind because they picked his name out of a hat blindfolded?
If I were a yank, I'd vote for Fred. Ron Paul would scare me more than Hilary actually.

[gaijinsamurai]

Actually Zogby's polls are probably the most respected, and taken the most seriously in the US.
But then again, if you were a yank, you might know that.

[Alpheus]

Wait, let me get this straight. Ron Paul is more popular among Democrats and independents then the other Republican candidates?

No ****.

Too bad his popularity among Republicans is less then the polls margin of error!!
And Alex Jones, isn't he that conspiracy wack-job?

[50lidu5]

Its not Alex Jones saying it, Fritz Wenzel is the one saying it.
Alex jones is a patriot and a hard core constitutionalist something we need more of.

[gaijinsamurai]

I'm a Democrat, and will probably switch to the GOP just to vote for Ron Paul, unless Obama looks like he can be Hillary.

[Alpheus]

A small selection of Mr. Jones outstanding work:

Police State 2: The Takeover (2000): Second in a three-part series. Jones says that the American people are too accepting of a highly controlled society.
9-11: The Road to Tyranny (2002): Jones says that most major 20th and 21st century terrorist attacks were orchestrated by governments, including the September 11, 2001 attacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11%2C_2001_attacks).
The Masters of Terror (2002): Jones explains why he believes the elite are using manufactured terrorism to get the population to go along with pre-planned wars in an effort to grab the world's remaining natural resources.
Police State 3: Total Enslavement (2003) Last in a three-part series. Jones covers the creation of the United States Department of Homeland Security (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Homeland_Security), the USA PATRIOT Act (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act), and the Information Awareness Office (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Awareness_Office).
The Matrix of Evil (2003): Footage of speeches and conversations with Alex Jones, Congressman Ron Paul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul), Colonel Craig Roberts, former US representative Cynthia McKinney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynthia_McKinney), and activist Frank Morales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Morales).
American Dictators: Documenting The Staged 2004 Election (2004): About the major candidates in the 2004 United States presidential election (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_presidential_election).
Martial Law 9/11: Rise of the Police State (2005): Jones shows what he believes are signs of a growing police state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_state).
The Order of Death (2005): Jones claims that the Bohemian Grove (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_Grove), Freemasonry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry), and the Illuminati (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati) are secretly ruling most of the world by proxy.
TerrorStorm: A History of Government-Sponsored Terrorism (2006) Jones covers what he believes are terrorist attacks induced by governments throughout history, most particularly the 7 July 2005 London bombings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings). In 2007 an extended version was released featuring 17 minutes of new material: TerrorStorm: Final Cut Special Edition, Re-Mixed + Re-Mastered
Endgame: Blueprint for Global Enslavement (2007): Jones covers what he believes to be the gradual erosion of national sovereignty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_sovereignty) in favor of a one world government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_world_government).Hey, it's your country. He's still nuts though.

Anyway, back on topic. This is the killer quote for me:

"He's right on schedule," Wenzel said. "He's making all the right moves, going in the right direction...at a time when other candidates are not moving."
Yup, Ron Paul is the real electoral juggernaut.

[Shellshock1918]

I'm a Democrat, and will probably switch to the GOP just to vote for Ron Paul, unless Obama looks like he can be Hillary.

If he can beat hillary, there's no point in voting, right? Do what is right! vote for Ron Paul!!

[JJC]

I personally am a fan of Obama. He seems like the most straight forward guy. Hilary seems like an evil person. IMO

Bill Richardson sounds like the only Democrat with common sense and realistic solutions on important issues. He is not moveon.org minded like Obama, Hillary or Edwards.

[50lidu5]

In his work Terrorstorm alex jones begins the doco by reporting on
ADMITTED government sponsored false flag events, including the gulf of tonkin which sparked the vietnam war costing america 58,209 fine young men and woman. thats not the work of a nut job, ill say it again the guy is a patriot. hes exposing government crimes and thats what a patriot is supposed to do keep the government in check

[JJC]

In his work Terrorstorm alex jones begins the doco by reporting on
ADMITTED government sponsored false flag events, including the gulf of tonkin which sparked the vietnam war costing america 58,209 fine young men and woman. thats not the work of a nut job, ill say it again the guy is a patriot. hes exposing government crimes and thats what a patriot is supposed to do keep the government in check

So 9/11 was another Gulf of Tonkin?

[50lidu5]

We wont know the truth about 911 intill there is a proper investigation, one were terrorist bank rolling and mystery collapsing buildings are properly investigated.

[shocker1]

My God what a conspiracy!!?? My personal favorite is the Bohemian Grove escapades. Alex bashes on the military way to much but I tend to agree with most of his views. He is also a good source of news and I have posted news I heard from him here but from other sources. As long as Alex Jones's name is not on it people will listen. His big mouth and such taints debate in this forum for some.

[Shellshock1918]

Let's not turn this into a conspiracy theory thread.

[Mr.Flint]

We wont know the truth about 911 intill there is a proper investigation, one were terrorist bank rolling and mystery collapsing buildings are properly investigated.

i refer you to the relevant forum rule

21. If you are a rabid believer in any 'the space aliens/Halliburton/the Jews/the government did it' theory about 9/11- don't post it here. We've heard it all before and we're sick to the back teeth of them. Punch yourself in the face instead.

[shocker1]

Let's not turn this into a conspiracy theory thread.
You can forget that, considering the source of the article. By this time tomorrow this thread will be Ron Paul bashing tin foil hat central.

[50lidu5]

i refer you to the relevant forum rule

Yeh true, will just disregard the 1st ammendment in future

[Robbee]

Yeh true, will just disregard the 1st ammendment in future

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2056897#post2056897

The last line in the post is relevant.

[50lidu5]

Is the FACT that the only one who can beat that nightmare witch hillary is Ron Paul, so get behind him or look forward to four years of hell.

[50lidu5]

Robee, like MP.net America is not a democracy either, it is a constitutional republic, the consitution is the supreme law, hence free speech.

[BloodyTalon]

We wont know the truth about 911 intill there is a proper investigation, one were terrorist bank rolling and mystery collapsing buildings are properly investigated.
And don't tell me: until then missiles the size of 767s and being about to prep three buildings for demolition without anyone noticing is a logical alternative, right?

But shellshock is right; this isn't the time or the place for a 9/11 debate.

[50lidu5]

And who would want to debate it, i am not one of them, I do have questions like ALOT of americans but this is not the place to raise them.

[NuclearHead]

Yeh true, will just disregard the 1st ammendment in future

This is a privately owned forum board. They can ban you whenever they want and for whatever reason they want.

You're not helping Ron Paul with your conspiracy theorist crap.

[50lidu5]

I didnt mention any theories, why am i being bundled in with the tin foil hat brigade? all i said was alex jones was a patriot, i didnt say i had theories about 911 other than that it needs a proper investigation.

Mayby i should just tazer myself, for questioning the government

[BloodyTalon]

And who would want to debate it, i am not one of them, I do have questions like ALOT of americans but this is not the place to raise them.
That depends on what you think classifies as a "question". People like Alex Jones, Dylan Avery, etc. don't ask questions; they've already drawn their conclusions (i.e. it was an elaborate, evil plot by the government who wants to turn this country into a replica of Oceania) and then try to convince other people that its the truth by nitpicking the facts. Now theres nothing wrong with being critical of the government and demanding more evidence to why the attack happened under our noses and how to prevent that again, but automatically assuming that it was due to some elaborate government plot that would require thousands of people participating in and months, if not years, of planning ahead of time puts you on the same intellectual level as people who claim the moon landing was fake.

[NuclearHead]

We wont know the truth about 911 intill there is a proper investigation, one were terrorist bank rolling and mystery collapsing buildings are properly investigated.


I didnt mention any theories, why am i being bundled in with the tin foil hat brigade? all i said was alex jones was a patriot, i didnt say i had theories about 911 other than that it needs a proper investigation.

Mayby i should just tazer myself, for questioning the government

If you really want to help Ron Paul, please try to keep these two out. I'm a Ron Paul supporter and I think Alex Jones is an idiot, and so do most Americans, if they associate him with Ron Paul it will harm his campaign.

[50lidu5]

, but automatically assuming that it was due to some elaborate government plot that would require thousands of people participating in and months, if not years, of planning ahead of time puts you on the same intellectual level as people who claim the moon landing was fake.

And thats precisely what i am not saying, I infact am not debating 911 truth, i was trying to point out that Alex Jones is a patriot, i dont Necessarily share his views on 911

[dacanadianbomb]

Robee, like MP.net America is not a democracy either, it is a constitutional republic, the consitution is the supreme law, hence free speech.

MP.net is privately owned and operated, therefore you have no rights here.Remember that when you read the forum rules.Its a privilege not a right to be here.

[Calanen]

Robee, like MP.net America is not a democracy either, it is a constitutional republic, the consitution is the supreme law, hence free speech.

http://web.mit.edu/mingyanf/www/stupidity.jpg

[50lidu5]

Nice gun laws in Ausralia, mayby you could tell everybody what its like to live under Total semi auto gun bans, so they know what to look forward too under Hillary.

[Mu-Meson]

Actually Zogby's polls are probably the most respected, and taken the most seriously in the US.
But then again, if you were a yank, you might know that.

Checking Zogby.com found the latest poll for Nov 17th with Ron Paul at 5%. Whoa! He's the Juggernaut, bitch!! The margin of error was +/- 4.5%. Hey, at least he is out of margin of error now. http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1392
Blind bios are an interesting twist on polling but I wonder if Ron Pauls bio included the support, and donations he has recieved from neo-Nazis, rightwing supremacists, and 9/11 Troofers. Factor those in, and I think the numbers might change a little. He was Alex Jones show again today. He absolute lack of dissociation from the nuts that Jones and he ilk pander to reads volumes about him.
In conclusion, too bad that elections aren't based on blind bio voting because there is no chance in hell that Ron Paul will win otherwise.

[Buckeye67]

Blind bios are an interesting twist on polling but I wonder if Ron Pauls bio included the support, and donations he has recieved from neo-Nazis, rightwing supremacists, and 9/11 Troofers. Factor those in, and I think the numbers might change a little. He was Alex Jones show again today. He absolute lack of dissociation from the nuts that Jones and he ilk pander to reads volumes about him.
In conclusion, too bad that elections aren't based on blind bio voting because there is no chance in hell that Ron Paul will win otherwise.

You're two weeks late for that thread (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=122869), Suzie.

[gaijinsamurai]

I like your logic, Mu-Meson: Because some nut-jobs and conspiracy theorists have voiced support for Ron Paul, that automatically puts him in league with them! So, if extremist evangelical Christians, radical abortion rights opponents, and racists support a certain candidate, that should reflect on the politician they support too?
You might want to quit before you dig your hole any deeper.

[avedis]

I like your logic, Mu-Meson: Because some nut-jobs and conspiracy theorists have voiced support for Ron Paul, that automatically puts him in league with them! So, if extremist evangelical Christians, radical abortion rights opponents, and racists support a certain candidate, that should reflect on the politician they support too?
You might want to quit before you dig your hole any deeper.

sorry when a presidential candidate goes on a truther(Alex Jones) radio multiple times, then people can damn well question his ideology. No candidate is free from scrutiny.
And to 50lidu5, how is spreading BS and indoctrinating half the idiots in schools patriotic? At least he could try to pretend to be subjective rather than objective.

[gaijinsamurai]

Is Ron Paul's appearance on Alex Jones' show any worse than John McCain giving a speech at Bob Jones University?

[shocker1]

Checking Zogby.com found the latest poll for Nov 17th with Ron Paul at 5%. Whoa! He's the Juggernaut, bitch!! The margin of error was +/- 4.5%. Hey, at least he is out of margin of error now. http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1392
Blind bios are an interesting twist on polling but I wonder if Ron Pauls bio included the support, and donations he has recieved from neo-Nazis, rightwing supremacists, and 9/11 Troofers. Factor those in, and I think the numbers might change a little. He was Alex Jones show again today. He absolute lack of dissociation from the nuts that Jones and he ilk pander to reads volumes about him.
In conclusion, too bad that elections aren't based on blind bio voting because there is no chance in hell that Ron Paul will win otherwise.
Yeah, maybe he should Hob Knob with the Saudi Prince or heck why not go into business with Bin Ladens brother. Give him some contracts and say "ah he does not agree with his little brother. Why not just call ourselves China's puppet and cash cow or supporter of anyone when it is convenient. That is ok for a Pres these days so a crazy American supporting him is fine by me. So shove it up your ass pal, I don't give a damn who in the hell supports him. Your accusations are ignorant and the platform Dr,Paul runs on has more in common with America's values than any of the fake scripted liars you support. Wait a minute you are a Canadian, it does not matter who you support.

So in short you fail and you must listen to Alex Jones. Heck I do and he is very entertaining. I am getting real tired of the piss ant label of 911 troofer. I do not believe the pack of damn lies that the 911 commission put out. Have you even attempted to read any of it? I suggest you do. I read about half of it and in the end it is nothing but hog wash.

[WarriorMonk]

Yeah, maybe he should Hob Knob with the Saudi Prince or heck why not go into business with Bin Ladens brother. Give him some contracts and say "ah he does not agree with his little brother. Why not just call ourselves China's puppet and cash cow or supporter of anyone when it is convenient. That is ok for a Pres these days so a crazy American supporting him is fine by me. So shove it up your ass pal, I don't give a damn who in the hell supports him. Your accusations are ignorant and the platform Dr,Paul runs on has more in common with America's values than any of the fake scripted liars you support. Wait a minute you are a Canadian, it does not matter who you support.

So in short you fail and you must listen to Alex Jones. Heck I do and he is very entertaining. I am getting real tired of the piss ant label of 911 troofer. I do not believe the pack of damn lies that the 911 commission put out. Have you even attempted to read any of it? I suggest you do. I read about half of it and in the end it is nothing but hog wash.

Pardon this large leap of logic, but I guess you're one of those who said we shouldn't have gone into afghanistan in the first place?

[evanfitz]

I'm for Ron Paul and could give a flying hoot if white supremacist, alex jones, 911 truthers, hardcore liberals, hardcore conservatives or even Oprah supports him. Those people don't represent me

What matters is my beliefs and if they coincide with his, and I hope thats the reason people vote.

[Mu-Meson]

I like your logic, Mu-Meson: Because some nut-jobs and conspiracy theorists have voiced support for Ron Paul, that automatically puts him in league with them! So, if extremist evangelical Christians, radical abortion rights opponents, and racists support a certain candidate, that should reflect on the politician they support too?
Precisely. I'm glad we agree. If any candidate I was planning on voting for received an endorsement from a group like the KKK or people who bomb abortion clinics, then I would bloody well expect the candidate to, at least, clearly state that he refuses that endorsement, and that he returns any and all campaign donations from those groups. All it would take would be a short speech, and a couple thou in returned donations to show where his ideology truly lies. He ain't done that. Is it not a legitimate question to ask why not?
shocker, chill dude. I myself agree with much of libertarianism and while I disagree with much of US policy vis-a-vis Saudi, China, special interest groups etc, I am not willing to make the leap to 9/11 conspiracy theories. If there was a decent libertarian running, then I would wish them all the best. Now Ron Paul may have lots in common with your values, values that have made America great, but he also has views that don't match up. 5% support backs me up on that. Unless of course there is a conspiracy there too.
Yes I am Canadian, and no it doesn't really matter who I support, but I will express my opinion.

[avedis]

Is Ron Paul's appearance on Alex Jones' show any worse than John McCain giving a speech at Bob Jones University?
its a christian school? is there something i dont know about that school....some evil christian conspiracy or r u just attacking christians
McCain is a christian so he isnt hiding anything..so no surprise he went to that uni.
Ron paul probably isnt a truther and I would happily vote for him instead hillary but whats the deal with legitimizing alex jones.

[gaijinsamurai]

Bob Jones University is famous for being an extreme-right wing institution, which champions segregation and encourages bigotry.

[avedis]

Bob Jones University is famous for being an extreme-right wing institution, which champions segregation and encourages bigotry.

kinda like most colleges in america....cough.berkley...etc
and aren't those allegations from like the 70's?

the same vast right wing institution that brought the clintons down right?
how deep is this neocon christian fox news corporation conspiracy
there are a couple of christian schools compared to hundreds of the left leaning schools
what a threat to the enlightened

[gaijinsamurai]

I think you're trying to have it both ways:

Ron Paul should be held accountable for the beliefs of people who support him, but John McCain and others shouldn't?

And what do liberal universities like UC Berkeley have to do with it?

[50lidu5]

Yes, Ron appears on the Alex Jones radio program. But you know who else talks to Alex Jones? People like Judge Anthony Napolitano. Guess who hosts Alex Jones? FOX's John Gibson and National Public Radio. Dr. Paul has said time and again that he does not believe 9/11 was an inside job. He does, however, think we should always question authority. When, by the way, were conservatives supposed to become trusting of big government?

[avedis]

I think you're trying to have it both ways:

Ron Paul should be held accountable for the beliefs of people who support him, but John McCain and others shouldn't?

And what do liberal universities like UC Berkeley have to do with it?

ofcourse not, did I say that?... as I said before no candidate is free from criticism
and what does bob jones uni have to do with it?....u brought it into the subject

[avedis]

Yes, Ron appears on the Alex Jones radio program. But you know who else talks to Alex Jones? People like Judge Anthony Napolitano. Guess who hosts Alex Jones? FOX's John Gibson and National Public Radio. Dr. Paul has said time and again that he does not believe 9/11 was an inside job. He does, however, think we should always question authority. When, by the way, were conservatives supposed to become trusting of big government?

Radio talk show hosts/tv show hosts are not running for president. They want ratings last time I checked.

[gaijinsamurai]

You are either:

a: deliberately trolling
b: have your head so far up your ass that you can't figure out the lack of logic in your statements.

Either way, I'm not wasting my time with you. Goodbye.

[avedis]

You are either:

a: deliberately trolling
b: have your head so far up your ass that you can't figure out the lack of logic in your statements.

Either way, I'm not wasting my time with you. Goodbye.
logic is subjective brother
im not here to make friends...im here to give my opinion on things as respectfully as i can
I am not saying im right or wrong
I am sorry to have angered you

[California Joe]

You are being annoying. You might want to stop doing that.

[LineDoggie]

What worries me about Ron Paul is the apparent support from Racist Groups like Stormfront he gets.

He also has made comments that would make David Duke cringe regarding Blacks.

[gaijinsamurai]

Such as?
Sources?

[Snoshi]

Such as?
Sources?


The Lone Star Times has revealed that the Ron Paul campaign has received at least one contribution from neo-Nazi leader Don Black, who heads an internet-based group called Stormfront. (Read the Lone Star Times piece here)
You can also check out the Stormfront forum, they have an official ad there

I've been looking at neo-Nazi support for Ron Paul and found that there's quite a bit. It seems that one of Rep. Paul's top internet organizers in Tennessee is a neo-Nazi leader named Will Williams (aka "White Will"). Williams was the southern coordinator for William Pierce's National Alliance Party, the largest neo-Nazi party in the U.S. (for more on Williams' role in the National Alliance Pary see "Beyond A Dead Man’s Deeds: The National Alliance After William Pierce", page 7 [pdf], for general info on the National Alliance Party, read here) For those fortunate enough not to know, Pierce was the author of The Turner Diaries, the bible of American neo-Nazis and inspiration for this country's worst case of home-grown terrorism, the Oklahoma City bombing (read here).

Other National Alliance Party leaders or former leaders are actively promoting the Ron Paul campaign on neo-Nazi websites. One such is Ron Doggett, currently of a group called Viginia EURO, a local branch of a national group started by David Duke

Racist podcaster Hal Turner has recently taken a break from issuing death threats to politicians in order to endorse Ron Paul. And then there's David Duke himself, who's devoted webpage after webpage to material supportive of the Paul campaign, without formally endorsing Paul. You could say that's soft money from the hard right.


The Ron Paul campaign disavows racism, of course, but for some reason, they can't keep the racists away. Maybe it has something to do with Rep. Paul's seeming opposition to all federal civil rights laws. Or his vote against providing funding to re-open investigations of murdered of civil rights workers. His racist comments about fleet-footed black muggers (or, as Paul has claimed, the comments he first defended, then took several years to realize he hadn't made and disavowed) haven't hurt, nor has his association with the John Birch Society, acceptance of support from the Christian Identity movement and advocacy for conspiracy theories. His isolationism, anti-immigrant rhetoric, and disdain for Israel and its supporters just might help explain his appeal to racists.
http://adamholland.blogspot.com/2007/10/neo-nazi-support-for-ron-paul.html

[gaijinsamurai]

I'm not disputing the fact that he has received support from bigots.

I want to know what comments he has made, as Linedoggie alleges, that would make David Duke cringe.

[gaijinsamurai]

If I am convinced that Mr. Paul is a bigot, and his beliefs will result in policies that are detrimental to non-whites, i will re-evaluate my support for him.
As someone who is in a mixed-race marriage, and has a biracial son, there's no way I will support someone who looks down upon my family or tries to make their chances at success more difficult.

So far, none of the arguments against Ron Paul have persuaded me of this.

[avedis]

I can't verify but this is what I found

CAMPAIGN '96/U.S. HOUSE/Newsletter excerpts offer ammunition to Paul's opponent/GOP hopeful quoted on race, crime

By ALAN BERNSTEIN, Houston Chronicle Political Writer
Staff

.

Texas congressional candidate Ron Paul's 1992 political newsletter highlighted portrayals of blacks as inclined toward crime and lacking sense about top political issues.

Under the headline of ""Terrorist Update," for instance, Paul reported on gang crime in Los Angeles and commented, ""If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be."

Paul, a Republican obstetrician from Surfside, said Wednesday he opposes racism and that his written commentaries about blacks came in the context of ""current events and statistical reports of the time."

Selected writings by Paul were distributed Wednesday by the campaign of his Democratic opponent, Austin lawyer Charles ""Lefty" Morris.

Morris said many of Paul's views are ""out there on the fringe" and that his commentaries will be judged by voters in the November general elections.

Paul said allegations about his writings amounted to name-calling by the Democrats and that his opponents should focus instead on how to shrink government spending and reform welfare.

Morris and Paul are seeking the 14th Congressional District seat held by Greg Laughlin of West Columbia. Laughlin lost the Republican primary to Paul, a former congressman and the Libertarian Party's 1988 presidential candidate.

Paul, writing in his independent political newsletter in 1992, reported about unspecified surveys of blacks.

""Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action," Paul wrote.

Paul continued that politically sensible blacks are outnumbered ""as decent people." Citing reports that 85 percent of all black men in the District of Columbia are arrested, Paul wrote:

""Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system,' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal," Paul said.

Paul also wrote that although ""we are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers."

A campaign spokesman for Paul said statements about the fear of black males mirror ****ouncements by black leaders such as the Rev. Jesse Jackson, who has decried the spread of urban crime.

Paul continues to write the newsletter for an undisclosed number of subscribers, the spokesman said.

Writing in the same 1992 edition, Paul expressed the popular idea that government should lower the age at which accused juvenile criminals can be prosecuted as adults.

He added, ""We don't think a child of 13 should be held responsible as a man of 23. That's true for most people, but black males age 13 who have been raised on the streets and who have joined criminal gangs are as big, strong, tough, scary and culpable as any adult and should be treated as such."

Paul also asserted that ""complex embezzling" is conducted exclusively by non-blacks.

""What else do we need to know about the political establishment than that it refuses to discuss the crimes that terrify Americans on grounds that doing so is racist? Why isn't that true of complex embezzling, which is 100 percent white and Asian?" he wrote.

In later newsletters, Paul aimed criticism at the Israeli government's U.S. lobbying efforts and reported allegations that President Clinton used cocaine and fathered illegitimate children.

Stating that lobbying groups who seek special favors and handouts are evil, Paul wrote, ""By far the most powerful lobby in Washington of the bad sort is the Israeli government" and that the goal of the Zionist movement is to stifle criticism.

Relaying a rumor that Clinton was a longtime cocaine user, Paul wrote in 1994 that the speculation ""would explain certain mysteries" about the president's scratchy voice and insomnia.

""None of this is conclusive, of course, but it sure is interesting," he said.


link: http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=1996_1343749

[gaijinsamurai]

To be fair, those quotations are strong arguments, AGAINST Paul. Thank you for making an intelligent post, Avedis, and bringing this to my attention. To say the least, these statements were insensitive, simplistic, and something one of my redneck uncles might say, but should not be said by anyone who plans to be taken seriously as a political contender.

[avedis]

Im truly sorry about b4. When I rant I don't make much sense sometimes.
I speak more clearly in person.

[Ludipipo]

ADL Strong !!!! rofl

AOL "Fair and balanced" © rofl
http://news.aol.com/elections/story/_a/huckabee-gains-ground-in-gop-race/20071121080509990002

[Rictor]

What worries me about Ron Paul is the apparent support from Racist Groups like Stormfront he gets.

He also has made comments that would make David Duke cringe regarding Blacks.

Ah this old thing. Let me clarify:

As far as I know, Dr.Paul received a grand total of $500 from a single white supremacist donor, out of more than $8,000,000 raised. His position (Paul's) is that he will accept any money from any source, but will not change his position one iota because of that money. So he would accept money from people who's politics are directly counter to his own, because all they're doing is throwing away their own money and they're free to do that.

I think if you researched the man, you'de see that there isn't a single hateful bone in his body, and rascism is not exactly compatible with his libertarian outlook.

[LineDoggie]

A man who thinks Cross Burning is Free Speech, has Stormfront creaming itself in girlish admiration, and has made those comments noted previously.

Smells like Klan spirit to me....

[The Punisher]

A man who thinks Cross Burning is Free Speech, has Stormfront creaming itself in girlish admiration, and has made those comments noted previously.

Smells like Klan spirit to me....

I can't believe I'm about to defend Ron Paul's position on something....

But free speech protects the right to say mean things too. If free speech meant we just got to say nice things, we wouldn't need the constitutional right to do it. We have free speech so that people can say whatever they want.

[TR1]

http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/articles/ron-paul-polling-african-americans.html

[shocker1]

According to Ron Paul he never said those things and his limited government stance does appeal to nefarious types. None the less this is a rehash of an old attack on him that has been refuted long ago. It was about Washington DC justice and we all know the issues there. Yet people put this stuff out every time he has ran. It sells papers but in the end does not add up to anything. It was in a published work he funds and publishes. So what he has to say about it means something and you should find out what he in fact did say in response. Still if this is all people can dig up then nice try I say.

1996 article implying Ron said those quotes. Exactly as posted previously! Like it was new news!
http://web.archive.org/web/20070512114222/http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/aol-metropolitan/96/05/23/paul.html

I have done plenty of reading on him, his voting record and straight from the mouth talk. I see nothing racist rather a view that the Federal Gov has no business social engineering. He has voted against many political football bills like civil rights and such which even I know that in their time had to be passed. Ron's view as mine is that we need to stop with the labeling of people and become individual American's. This limited interference view is right IMO.

Maybe some should read some of the references in wiki and the articles there. Like the Rosa Parks medal issue and such. It is the States that should have these powers and make laws in line with the Constitution. Not Washington mandating the laws and subjecting monetary and political punishments for not doing so. this is an old political stance of my part of the country and those who disagree love to tie racism to this. Just because that was part of the reason the South broke away. Ron Paul may not win but he has shown the people in the click how a sizable majority feel. How we are tired of government in our lives and are tired of unequal application of the law.

It is unfortunate that people make light of the least of his supporters rather than his record, his biography, his live and let live world view and his belief that government destroys individuality. All of these have an appeal to a broad spectrum of people. All of which seem to be drawn to a candidate promising small Constitutional government, IRS abolishment and equal treatment regardless of race. So besides falsely quoting Ron Paul, linking him to racists then writing long speeches about people who do not matter. Whom he does not agree with but happens to not put down due to his strict Constitutional politics. His political views, voting record and life seem to say the opposite. Catchy headlines, skillful writers in blogs just do not bring down the record. He is on Alex Jones because a lot of people listen to him and most of those want SMALL GOVERNMENT. His views on foreign aid are spot on.

The one thing I found was him voting against funding the B-2 and aircraft carriers. None the less he is precisely the person to temper the power grabbing and overbearing Federal Government. If you like big government, subsidies that drain you business, War without end then vote for the pre-chosen selection of ****s.

I am also very sensitive to antisemitism, I do not see any. Rather he is very critical of Israel as he should be. I am not to keen on how Israel has been doing things myself but that is a flaming subject I would soon just not discuss. before you call me anti-semitic or whatever be sure you know all about me before uttering that non-sense.

Here is an excerpt from a decent article on the politics around Ron.

The question is whether the old ideologies being resurrected are neglected wisdom or discredited nonsense. In the 1996 general election, Paul’s Democratic opponent Lefty Morris held a press conference to air several shocking quotes from a newsletter that Paul published during his decade away from Washington. Passages described the black male population of Washington as “semi-criminal or entirely criminal” and stated that “by far the most powerful lobby in Washington of the bad sort is the Israeli government.” Morris noted that a Canadian neo-Nazi Web site had listed Paul’s newsletter as a laudably “racialist” publication.
Paul survived these revelations. He later explained that he had not written the passages himself — quite believably, since the style diverges widely from his own. But his response to the accusations was not transparent. When Morris called on him to release the rest of his newsletters, he would not. He remains touchy about it. “Even the fact that you’re asking this question infers, ‘Oh, you’re an anti-Semite,’ ” he told me in June. Actually, it doesn’t. Paul was in Congress when Israel bombed Iraq’s Osirak nuclear plant in 1981 and — unlike the United Nations (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/united_nations/index.html?inline=nyt-org) and the Reagan administration — defended its right to do so. He says Saudi Arabia has an influence on Washington equal to Israel’s. His votes against support for Israel follow quite naturally from his opposition to all foreign aid. There is no sign that they reflect any special animus against the Jewish state.
What is interesting is Paul’s idea that the identity of the person who did write those lines is “of no importance.” Paul never deals in disavowals or renunciations or distancings, as other politicians do. In his office one afternoon in June, I asked about his connections to the John Birch Society. “Oh, my goodness, the John Birch Society!” he said in mock horror. “Is that bad? I have a lot of friends in the John Birch Society. They’re generally well educated, and they understand the Constitution. I don’t know how many positions they would have that I don’t agree with. Because they’re real strict constitutionalists, they don’t like the war, they’re hard-money people. . . . ”
Paul’s ideological easygoingness is like a black hole that attracts the whole universe of individuals and groups who don’t recognize themselves in the politics they see on TV. To hang around with his impressively large crowd of supporters before and after the CNN debate in Manchester, N.H., in June, was to be showered with privately printed newsletters full of exclamation points and capital letters, scribbled-down U.R.L.’s for Web sites about the Free State Project, which aims to turn New Hampshire into a libertarian enclave, and copies of the cult DVD “America: Freedom to Fascism.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/22/magazine/22Paul-t.html?ei=5124&en=22ee37525a9fc4f5&ex=1343016000&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink&pagewanted=all

[gaijinsamurai]

I still have yet to make up my mind on who I will give my vote to.
Opposition to giving Israel carte blanche, or to question unqualified support to Israel does not make a candidate anti-Semitic. While I have Israeli friends, and wish the state well, I do not believe we should give support to all of their government's policies.
Did Ron Paul make the statements about Blacks? I don't know, but I do know that whenever a candidate runs for office, there will always be those in the opposition who are willing to bring up half-truths, inuendos, unsubstanitated gossip, and downright lies to smear a person and ruin their credibility. I'm sure there are plenty of fatcats in Washington, both Republican and Democrat, who wouldn't hesitate to do that to Mr. Paul.
Like I wrote earlier, if he is indeed a racist, i won't vote for him, just like i won't vote for the other Republican candidates, or Hillary.

[Rictor]

A man who thinks Cross Burning is Free Speech, has Stormfront creaming itself in girlish admiration, and has made those comments noted previously.

Smells like Klan spirit to me....

Burning an object you own on property you own, harming no one...sounds OK to me. Are we to arbitrarily decide which object may and may not be burned?

And like shocker1 said, a proponent of free speech is inherently appealing to those with an unpopular message. So what? I support free speech for white supremacists just the same as for black supremacists as for Hindu supremacists as for NAMBLA types and everyone else.

[avedis]

thnx shocker1

[gaijinsamurai]

I agree with the Free Speech issue, as much as I abhore activities like cross burning and neo-Nazi activity.

The reason I don't respect the ACLU is because they defend the 1st Amendment with great zeal, but ignore the Second, just because they choose to "interpret" it in favor of the government, against the rights of the individual, due to the fact that most of them are liberals who do not personally like guns.

If we are to preserve our Consitutional rights, we need to fight for the rights of everybody, not just those we agree with.

It is a sign of political maturity.