View Full Version : A Spy Returns Home
achilles
11-27-2007, 06:33 AM
US Embassy spy Steven Lalas to return to Greece
AP - Sunday 25th of November 2007
A former U.S. Embassy employee convicted of spying for Greece will return to Athens to serve the remainder of his parole, Greece's Justice Ministry said Friday.
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Steven Lalas, 54, was sentenced in 1993 to 14 years in prison for spying, and was placed on parole following his release from a U.S. federal prison.
Lalas, a communications officer who is of Greek descent, had served in U.S. government posts in Greece, Turkey and Yugoslavia.
Lalas is due to arrive in Greece on Sunday, to be reunited with his wife and children, the Justice Ministry said.
"Justice Minister Sotiris Hadjigakis has provided written assurances to the competent U.S. authorities, that the Greek government will fulfill any court decision regarding Mr. Lalas' parole," a statement said.
http://www.lgr.co.uk/news/greece/10356/us-embassy-spy-steven-lalas-to-return-to-greece/
The ordeal of former agent Steven Lalas
He fought in Vietnam, became a spy for his country, went to prison, and is seeing his family for the first time in 14 years
By Alexis Papachelas - Kathimerini
The first time I saw Steven Lalas was in 1993, in a courtroom in Virginia, not far from Washington. He looked like a hunted animal caught in the headlights, fearfully awaiting his punishment. Shackled hand and foot, in a room full of agents from the FBI, CIA and Pentagon, he seemed at a loss, unable to understand what had happened to him.
At that time no Greek stood by him. A leading member of the Greek-American community literally threw out of his office someone who dared to suggest they help pay the steep fees for Lalas’s defense. Only his family and a few Greeks abroad helped.
By contrast, the Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard was embraced by the Jewish community and no Israel-US summit took place without mention of his case.
I remember the day Lalas was sentenced to 168 months in a maximum-security prison. He stared blankly at the judge who read out the sentence. At the back of the courtroom, CIA agents were handing out souvenirs of glasses, pens and other gifts with their logo to prosecutors, FBI agents and others who had collaborated in the operation to arrest Lalas.
From 1993 to 2005, I spoke regularly with Lalas in prison, always aware that the conversation was being taped. He asked for books and newspapers. I’m no fervent nationalist but I was impressed that, thousands of miles from his family, and knowing that Greece was 99 percent responsible for his situation, at the end of every meeting he would shout: “Long live Greece; long live the homeland!”
I saw Lalas again in the summer of 2005, when he was released from prison to live under house arrest with his brother. I remember how eagerly he snatched at his food. It was only when he used a steak knife as a toothpick that I realized how brutal prison life had been.
Later, at a hotel, he told me his story.
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_ell_206_27/11/2007_90559
Welcome back brother
http://www.lgr.co.uk/news/greece/10356/us-embassy-spy-steven-lalas-to-return-to-greece/
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_ell_206_27/11/2007_90559
Welcome back brother
Your so called brother was a traitor to the country he choose to serve. He can go EATADIK.
Amateur
11-27-2007, 01:11 PM
Good riddance traitor
Your so called brother was a traitor to the country he choose to serve. He can go EATADIK.
Your perspective is understandable, however you should note that Lalas was in fact a loyal US citizen who served his chosen country during the Vietnam war; he did not regard his actions as treason against the US, because whatever secrets he passed on to the Greek secret service were not aimed against US interests, but rather referred to NATO and US military information about Turkey, or US disposition on issues of Greek interest (Turkey and the Balkans). Lalas was obviously under the impression that he was serving his country of origin (Greece) without harming his chosen country (USA).
So I think "traitor" is a rather exaggerated term; Greece is a US ally after all, not Russia, nor China. And whatever secrets Lalas passed on to Greece, may have compromised some diplomatic moves of the US side, but they never compromised vital US interests.
Your perspective is understandable, however you should note that Lalas was in fact a loyal US citizen who served his chosen country during the Vietnam war; he did not regard his actions as treason against the US, because whatever secrets he passed on to the Greek secret service were not aimed against US interests, but rather referred to NATO and US military information about Turkey, or US disposition on issues of Greek interest (Turkey and the Balkans). Lalas was obviously under the impression that he was serving his country of origin (Greece) without harming his chosen country (USA).
So I think "traitor" is a rather exaggerated term; Greece is a US ally after all, not Russia, nor China. And whatever secrets Lalas passed on to Greece, may have compromised some diplomatic moves of the US side, but they never compromised vital US interests.
The Britannica Online encyclopedia defines Espionage as:
process of obtaining military, political, commercial, or other secret information by means of spies, secret agents, or illegal monitoring devices. Espionage is sometimes distinguished from the broader category of intelligence gathering by its aggressive nature and its illegality
He passed along information without permission to a third party. He was a traitor to the US because he betrayed the trust of the US by passing along information that was of a classified nature. He betrayed the US.
Vorian
11-27-2007, 01:58 PM
Good riddance traitor
He passed down info about US actions that hurt vital national (not economical) interests of a supposed "ally and friend". So yes, he is a traitor.
God bless him.
derkrieger
11-27-2007, 02:05 PM
...and the country or its citizens/fellows he chose to serve did not help him in his cause when caught. I'd say good job Greeks.
For the guy I have respect though, for it takes some serious courage to sell US secrets to a country like Greece, of which secret service is a joke when compared to that of USA or Russia.
He passed down info about US actions that hurt vital national (not economical) interests of a supposed "ally and friend". So yes, he is a traitor.
God bless him.
So it should perfectly alright for a Greek with English ancestry to pass on national secrets to the British SiS then. Right?
saladin
11-27-2007, 02:20 PM
he did not regard his actions as treason against the US, because whatever secrets he passed on to the Greek secret service were not aimed against US interests, but rather referred to NATO and US military information about Turkey, or US disposition on issues of Greek interest (Turkey and the Balkans). L
So I think "traitor" is a rather exaggerated term; Greece is a US ally after all, not Russia, nor China. And whatever secrets Lalas passed on to Greece, may have compromised some diplomatic moves of the US side, but they never compromised vital US interests.
Greece is a US ally after all,
He passed down info about US actions that hurt vital national (not economical) interests of a supposed "ally and friend". So yes, he is a traitor.
I see... but didn't you forget to mention that Turkey is also an "ally" and "friend" for US? Doesn't his actions put US-Turkish relations on hot road? He spied between 77-93 that covers the hight of cold war during which Turkey was extremely important for US.
He may be hero for Greece but lets not forget that he betrayed US.
Amateur
11-27-2007, 02:38 PM
...and the country or its citizens/fellows he chose to serve did not help him in his cause when caught. I'd say good job Greeks.
Ummm....
he was initially sentenced to 14 years for a crime that could bring him life imprisonment; he was released at 12 years with another 5 years of house confinement; and 2 years later he was allowed to fly to Greece because the Greek Minister of Justice gave his assurances...
Does it look like Greece did nothing for him?
I 'm not denying that Greece owes him a lot and should do whatever possible to comfort him; but "didn't lift a finger" is a phrase that doesn't reflect reality.
If memory serves me well, Jonathan Pollard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard) is still doing time in a US prison because he spied for Israel, isn't he?
Isn't Israel a US ally? Of course it is.
Isn't Israel a serious country that cares for its spies? Of course it is.
Doesn't Israel "lift a finger" to help him? Of course it does.
Do we hear about it? Of course not.
Let us not oversimplify things... All countries have spies, it happens even between allies; and all countries are embarassed when one of their spies is caught, and all countries try their best to help them, without attracting too much attention to the issue...
Vorian
11-27-2007, 03:19 PM
So it should perfectly alright for a Greek with English ancestry to pass on national secrets to the British SiS then. Right?
It would be ok from the English side of view. I understand that you don't like him since he did spy on US. I am fine with that.
These things happen. Every country has spies everywhere and much more dangerous than ours.
achilles
11-27-2007, 06:17 PM
Take it easy with Steve Lalas. He is a hero and a true patriot to me and the rest of the Greeks, just like the lot of American snitches spying every single corner of this planet, are heroes to you.
He shafted you and then paid for it. Get over it.
Again...welcome back brother...
Moledet
11-27-2007, 06:22 PM
As long as he didn't spy for an enemy country and his information didn't endanger any Americans I can understand the Greeks.
Hopefully, we will be able to open a similar thread soon.
Yehuda Katz, Zacharia Baoumel, Tzvi Feldman, Ron Arad, Gilad Shalit, Ehud Goldwasser, Eldad Regev, Jonathan Pollard - born to freedom.
As long as he didn't spy for an enemy country and his information didn't endanger any Americans I can understand the Greeks.
Hopefully, we will be able to open a similar thread soon.
Yehuda Katz, Zacharia Baoumel, Tzvi Feldman, Ron Arad, Gilad Shalit, Ehud Goldwasser, Eldad Regev, Jonathan Pollard - born to freedom.
Oh I didn't know they were spies; I thought they were just captured/MIA soldiers.
achilles
11-27-2007, 06:34 PM
A turncoat to his adopted country, a disgrace to the Army he fought with in Viet Nam, a thief, a liar, and a backstabber......
yeah...and a Greek too....
you can have him!
Oh we do have him, and we are proud to do so....
Moledet
11-27-2007, 06:49 PM
Oh I didn't know they were spies; I thought they were just captured/MIA soldiers.
What's the difference between a spy and an army serviceman? He's as much a captured soldier as the others.
What's the difference between a spy and an army serviceman? He's as much a captured soldier as the others.
Well there are legal differences. Spies are not covered under Geneva as soldiers are. To me if you get caught too bad, that's the risk you take when you volunteer to do the job. No one should demand that their spies be released.
Moledet
11-27-2007, 07:11 PM
Well there are legal differences. Spies are not covered under Geneva as soldiers are. To me if you get caught too bad, that's the risk you take when you volunteer to do the job. No one should demand that their spies be released.
You are correct that there are legal differences, it doesn't mean that a country shouldn't work in order to return home its spies.
In addition, Israel as a Jewish state should follow Jewish morals that says that the Jewish community should work for the release of anyone that was kidnapped/captured by non-Jews (Pidyon Shvuiim).
achilles
11-27-2007, 07:25 PM
Plesae don't alter my post to make me apperar anti-Greek.
The Greek-American comminity couldnt even stand that snake, they were ashamed of him, what he did, and the stain he put on them and Greece. He's gone,good.
You can have your "hero"..............
Show me where did i "alter" your post to make you look....anything. I am just replying. And certainly i never thought you are anti-Greek. Its Steve Lalas we are talking about here.
The Greek_American community was embarassed because they had hardly anything to say to the American authorities. They were never ashamed of him or what he did.
Let me ask you this. What would you think of a Greek of American descent who, lets say, provided the CIA with intelligence?
Would this guy be a shame, a true disgrace, a scumbag of the worst kind for you?
And i repeat...we do have our hero and we are damn proud of it...
little icebear
11-27-2007, 07:25 PM
To me if you get caught too bad, that's the risk you take when you volunteer to do the job. No one should demand that their spies be released.
Are you serious? Do you think the US Gov should sit on his hands when a CIA-Agent is caught in, say, China or Russia or Beloruss?
A spy may not have the same legal status as a soldier, but he is a service man, risking his life for his country. He derseves the same attention, if not more.
Are you serious? Do you think the US Gov should sit on his hands when a CIA-Agent is caught in, say, China or Russia or Beloruss?
A spy may not have the same legal status as a soldier, but he is a service man, risking his life for his country. He derseves the same attention, if not more.
If U.S. catches a Russian spy or Russia catches a CIA spook I think it's fair game etc, especially if the spies cause grave harm to the security of a state by stealing high tech military info for example...
little icebear
11-27-2007, 08:17 PM
If U.S. catches a Russian spy or Russia catches a CIA spook I think it's fair game etc, especially if the spies cause grave harm to the security of a state by stealing high tech military info for example...
Well, for god sake the goverments do care in one way or the other. But people like us wont notice it very often. Deals are made behind closed doors.
timetraveller
11-27-2007, 08:23 PM
There are Spies , Snitches in All forms .of life .. Especially In normal wrking enviroments .. Be it in the City , town small villages ..
There are Company Bosses that know your every move even if they are no where near the permises because they have there Spies telling them everything that happens , even if your not on the permises .. because there just a phn call away
In all the places that i have wrked I have never experienced that kind of Enviroment before ,
PANKRASTIS
11-28-2007, 05:19 AM
This is a difficult topic, nowhere near as black & white as some would like to make it. Predominantly becuase you have a citizen recruited by a foreign service who is also an ally, to spy for them against your own interests.
Wether its for Greece or Israel or the United Kingdom, France or the United States, and i mention those cointries because they have all caught & sentenced or released with expulsion each others agents spying on one another to which the US ia anything but innocent of.
Lets not forget only 2-3 years ago 2 Jewish Australian residents & apparent local businessman using a travel agency as a cover, and for the un-unciated it is one of the more popular covers used by all agencies as it allows people to travel to several destinations & nations without suspicion.
The agents were caught in New Zealand with fake passports, though they were both Australian citizens, they were charged, after tri-nations negotiations between Australia, New Zealand & Israel they were deported to Israel, not back to Australia.
As i say, the issue is not black & white, & anyone who has been emlpoyed in the forein service or military in specialist areas, even in current operations has been asked at one time or another (offcourse not all, key people only) to provide information to even ones ally.
On matters as seemingly innocent as attidutes of the troops, feelings towarrds the larger contributers, feelings towards expanded involvement etc.
No nations is immune, or innocent.
I am a Hellene, what he did was right for Greece, & support that, but he betrayed The United States, and even though many Americans might sympathise with his sentiment, you cannot nor must not forgive a betrayel.
PANKRASTIS
11-28-2007, 06:00 AM
Greece & The United States actually have a very uniqe history together the knowledge of which has been lost to all but Acedamia.
Has no one ever wondered why so many parts of the southern United States, its States, cities, towns & counties & its architecture are so remeniscent of the Greeks & Ancient Hellas, considering many of these towns & cities & states were thus named 200-300 years ago.
As a matter of fact, you can find in the United States, particular the South & South East that every Ancient, and recent past Town, City, Area & Prefecture of Greece has a twin in the United States.
There is a good reason for this, and for those who live in these areas but never quired why & how they were named may be in for a pleasant suprise.
Vorian
11-28-2007, 09:23 AM
A turncoat to his adopted country, a disgrace to the Army he fought with in Viet Nam, a thief, a liar, and a backstabber......you can have him!
I wonder what you think about your agents scattered around the world. Oh, I forget they defend the free world from evil.
Anyway, this thread has too much heat for no reason.
Vorian
11-28-2007, 12:59 PM
This man was an American who turned his back on his country to spy for a foriegn goverment, He wasnt a Greek mole planted in the US, He in fact was a traitor not a planted "spy". And as a traitor he should have had a cell next to Pollard.
Whatever. You play with words "not planted" , moles and no-mole traitors etc etc.
If he was planted as you say from the beginning, achieved his position and then passed the info you would be ok with it?
I am out of this thread. It's pointless.
Peris
11-28-2007, 02:20 PM
hello.
Lalas is a decorated Vietnam veteran who was also injured in Vietnam. There is no question he violated US laws although we must remember that a couple of times US agents have been arrested in Greece and were releashed without any trials after under the table agreements.
However it was a generous gesture from the US govt to let Lalas return to Greece and not having him under surervision another 2.5 years. This was done for humanitarian reasons, among others Lalas' older son is a child with special needs.
Rictor
11-28-2007, 03:56 PM
A Greek spying on America? To what possible end: finding out where they keep their strategic reserves of feta and olives?
They're NATO allies, trade partners and allies.
Peris
11-28-2007, 04:00 PM
I guess you also dont understand the difference between a "agent/spy" or what he was a "traitor".
SPY-to watch or gather information secretly.
TRAITOR-Someone who betrays a trust or commits TREASON=LALAS
The agents you speak of were US "agents/spys", Lalas was a Traitor someone who betrayed a trust as an American citizen and commited TREASON agains his country, the US, and was caught....the same as Pollard.
Is a shame posters here want to make some kind of a hero of an American who betrayed his country for over 25 years, whose only claim to fame was treason and betrayal..............that is so sad.
Trace you are right about the spy/traitor issue. Please have in mind that even in a crime like spying there are levels. It's one thing to spy on behalf of Greece giving details about Turkish armed forces and another thing to give the names of US agents abroad and have them killed.
As you know the US is recruiting people in various agencies with different ethnic backgrounds offering them careers and using them to actually spying at their birth countries. It is all part of the game. Believe it or not Lalas beside his ''treason'' i accept your term has done in SE Asia a lot of staff in favour of the US while working for US intel. If you want to erase his contribution ok. Remember that prominent US citizens avoided the draft for Vietnam and did not serve. I am saying that it's not all black and white and when you brake the law you pay.
Hollis
11-28-2007, 06:28 PM
A Greek spying on America? To what possible end: finding out where they keep their strategic reserves of feta and olives?
They're NATO allies, trade partners and allies.
There is a good book, Two Lives, One Russia By Nicholas Daniloff. He was arrested by the KGB for being a US spy. Problem with governments, they do not trust each other. Even as allies there is a distrust because of self interest can conflict. Often Agents like the KGB and CIA are known to each other. The act to verify what is going on in the other country. Not all cloak and dagger stuff. Spying does have some positive merits to it.
The article stated he was sentenced for Spying. Works for me. Why he was not tried for treason I don't know. Maybe some element that defines treason was missing.
I think it is safe to say he betrayed the US. I guess we could say, "One man's spy is another man's traitor." In this case. I don't think duel loyalities is a defense.
Peris
11-28-2007, 07:08 PM
The article stated he was sentenced for Spying. Works for me. Why he was not tried for treason I don't know. Maybe some element that defines treason was missing.
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
Peris
11-28-2007, 07:20 PM
There should be no question of duel loyalty, since when he was sworn in as a US citizen he gave up any loyalty to his old country.
Not really.
Based on the U.S. Department of State regulation on dual citizenship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_citizenship) (7 FAM 1162), the Supreme Court of the United States has stated that dual citizenship is a “status long recognized in the law” and that “a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both. The mere fact he asserts the rights of one citizenship does not without more mean that he renounces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renunciation_of_citizenship) the other,”
Peris
11-28-2007, 07:43 PM
talking about Lalas the person who was most shocked was his wife who as a Greek woman considered him the all American boy. When the FBI went to see her she took a polygraph test while pregnant. When they told her that her husband is suspected for spying she thought this was kind of joke.
Lalas was called back from Athens to DC and there he understood that something is going on. He did not run to escape or hide.He came back and took orders to go to one hotel which was a cover for FBI. There they interrogated him BEFORE any official arrest or charge and without a lawyer. Lalas said they they forced him only psychologically,nobody touched him.
The bad thing is that during these years the lady was alone to raise two boys by herself. Again the American govt acted very humain and let the family reunite.
Peris
11-29-2007, 08:06 AM
He passed an estimated 700 highly classified documents, including papers dealing with plans and readiness for U.S. military strategy in the Balkans and a U. S. assessment of Greece’s intentions toward the former Yugoslavia. Athens was Lalas’ fourth communications posting with the State Department. During his espionage career he earned a steady income stealing, then selling, DIA reports about troop strength, political analyses, and military discussions contained in cables between the U.S. Embassy in Athens and the White House. He also obtained information from FBI communications about counter-terrorism efforts, and the names and job descriptions of CIA personnel stationed overseas.
Greek handlers allegedly paid him $20,000 for about 240 documents over a three- year period ending with his arrest.
Lalas deny that he got any money and i believe him since his family was in a bad econimic shape. Despite that the FBI and DA never prooved the money issue. They aired the ''money'' thing simlpy to discredit a spy. Even the FBI bulletin says ALLEGEDLY'' paid.
The other staff the article mentioning agent names and ct efforts is pure FBI fantasy and has nothing to do with the actual case in the court.
I am sure you are not stupid to believe that names of American agents are transmited via cables. The agents are contacted only via thier handlers or with nicknames. The job description of agents:cantbeli: and such is simply hilarious.
it's clear that the Feds also waged a dafamation campaign vs him but the FBI has done more worse things to law abiding citizens so an arrested spy should expect dirty staff.
Security guard wrongly suspected in Atlanta bombing dies
Richard Jewell, the security guard who was wrongly linked to the bombing that marred the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, has died, a Georgia coroner said Wednesday.
Meriwether County coroner Johnny Worley said Jewell's wife discovered the 44-year-old Jewell dead in their home on Wednesday morning.
Worley told the Atlanta Journal Constitution that an autopsy would be performed by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, but added there was "no suspicion of foul play".
"He had been having some pretty serious medical problems," Worley told the newspaper.
Jewell, a security guard at Centennial Olympic Park, was initially hailed as a hero in the July 27, 1996 bombing, which left one woman dead and more than 100 injured.
Jewell called attention to a suspicious backpack that held the bomb and helped evacuate the area.
Within days, however, he was widely reported to be the Federal Bureau of Investigation's chief suspect.
The FBI later cleared Jewell of wrongdoing. He was never charged with a crime and later sued several news outlets over the published accusations.
Last year, Jewell was commended by Georgia governor Sonny Perdue at an event marking the 10th anniversary of the bombing.
"The bottom line is this: His actions saved lives that day," Perdue said.
Eric Robert Rudolph pleaded guilty to the bombing in 2005 and is serving life in prison for it and other attacks.
Peris
11-29-2007, 08:34 AM
US Citizenship Oath
I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God. In acknowledgement whereof I have hereunto affixed my signature.
Lets see proof that Lalas had duel citizenship.......If you cant read the underlined in the above Oath....and then tell me he wasnt a traitor.
it seems that the US oath and Supreme Court legislation contadict.
Peris
11-29-2007, 11:33 AM
Apples and oranges, you infered Lalas had duel citizenship, I asked you to prove it, you didnt you can't. And since you cant your whole Congress line of bull is just more smoke to cover the fact that Lalas was a backstabbing turd that go caught and now is being DEPORTED like any common criminal.
And there is no conflict between Congress and the Court, this is the Oath all naw American citizens take when they are sworn in as new Americans. An Oath Lalas broke almost as soon as he took it when he started spying while still a member of the US ARMY in 1977 and continued to spit on until he was caught in 1993.
He'd gone, good riddance, I hope hell has a special place for traitors.
i never said he had duel citiz. You said that once having the oath you 'forget the previous country. This is not the case as your Supreme court legislated. I am not an expert in US laws but common sense says that when a ie British citizen becomes an American he still loves Britain.
Amateur
11-29-2007, 11:48 AM
@ Trace: I 've been away from this thread for some time, and I am amazed that you still can't accurately tell the difference between a spy and a traitor - that's the root of our speaking across each other here. Your initial mistake was this:
I guess you also dont understand the difference between a "agent/spy" or what he was a "traitor".
SPY-to watch or gather information secretly.
TRAITOR-Someone who betrays a trust or commits TREASON=LALAS
[...] Lalas was a Traitor someone who betrayed a trust as an American citizen and commited TREASON agains his country, the US, and was caught....the same as Pollard.
The above definition of "treason" is wrong. In common parlance and on personal level, you may call a person that betrays your trust a "traitor"; however, when it comes to nations, the terms "traitor" and "treason" are not limited to betraying someone's trust. They rather mean "siding with the enemy". Peris rightly pointed out to you this passage
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
That quote didn't seem to impress you; well it should have: it's the United States Constitution, Article III Section 3. You and I may define terms as we please, but I think the US Constitution is a more authentic source than both of us. And let me give you some further food for thought:
Several people generally thought of as traitors in the United States, including Jonathan Pollard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard), the Walker Family (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Anthony_Walker), Robert Soblen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Soblen), and Julius and Ethel Rosenberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg), were not prosecuted for treason, but rather for espionage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage). John Walker Lindh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh), an American citizen who fought with the Taliban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban) against the U.S.-supported Northern Alliance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Alliance), was convicted of conspiracy to murder U.S. nationals rather than treason.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason
So: espionage does not equal treason. Treason presupposes another element, that of spying for an enemy country, while Greece is an allied country. Lalas did spy against the US, but not for an enemy country, and therefore he did not commit treason, nor can he be regarded as a "traitor".
Amateur
11-29-2007, 12:35 PM
I find it very funny, you expect me to feel anything but distaste and revulsion for this turd. ...
Your attemps to sway me are, and,will fall on deaf ears, ....
You got it all wrong; I don't expect you to feel anything about anybody. No offense meant, but I couldn't care less about changing your opinion.
I'm just setting the record straight here: according to the US Constitution, Lalas is a "spy" but not a traitor because he didn't side with any enemy.
Other than that, you have every right to believe whatever you want and feel as hurt as you like. It's a democracy after all.
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