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moughoun
05-18-2004, 08:08 AM
Iraq conflict raises doubts on FCS survivability

By Joshua Kucera JDW Staff Reporter
Washington, DC

Additional reporting by
Ian Kemp JDW News Editor
London

The constant stream of casualties from close-range fire in Iraq has again raised questions that the US Army's future family of combat vehicles, which will rely on superior intelligence rather than thick armour, could be vulnerable.

The Future Combat Systems (FCS), a group of 18 networked land and air platforms, will be ill-equipped to handle threats like improvised explosive devices (IEDs) and rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs), some critics say.

The army's official line is that the network will give FCS-equipped units such a good understanding of the enemy's positions that they will be able to evade threats rather than needing thick armour to withstand hits. However, critics argue that danger can never completely be avoided and that soldiers could be unprotected in such lightly armoured vehicles. This view has gained currency after higher-than-expected casualties from IEDs and RPG attacks in Iraq.

"The network is not going to keep you alive," said one army official, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "The network is probably irrelevant once you make close contact with the enemy, and we're going to continue to make close contact because even [Iraqis], who are pretty unimpressive, have turned out to be sufficiently smart to rapidly reposition, adapt, evolve, and change in order to inflict damage on us."

One source with a major European armoured fighting vehicle manufacturer expressed scepticism to JDW about the reliance on information superiority to ensure the survivability of the FCS.

He noted that situational awareness is easier to achieve on the conventional battlefield with an enemy equipped with tanks and other vehicles but much more difficult during peace support operations or counter-insurgency operations when the enemy uses stealth tactics to blend into the civilian population. This is particularly true of military operations in urban terrain.

Tane Angle
05-18-2004, 08:14 AM
"Multiple militaries" seems like like a good idea, but that's just me. People have been suggesting it for decades, having a peacekeeping/enforcement force, a light combatant force, and a heavy combatant force, and not really using one to do the other's job. We somewhat have that today, but we have such a small military that units and equipment that weren't designed for some tasks are now sent to do them. Take the Stryker Brigades; they're not really made for peace enforcement. They are wonderful at some things, but at peace enforcement, not so much. They've been kept away from the RPG/IED ranges specifically because of this.

Have a good one, and just some thoughts...

Kilgor
05-18-2004, 08:20 AM
Stryker’s half-inch-thick steel body and ceramic-skin armor shields the vehicle from 14.5mm and 7.62mm armor-piercing bullets. United Defense Industries, Arlington, Va., received a $7.9 million contract from GM Defense 04 November 2002 to develop and test add-on applique armor that will stop RPG-7 rounds. The contract requires United Defense to develop and test the applique armor by February 2004. If it passes, the company could build 1,600 add-on armor kits by 2006.

Thats from global security .

Given the amount of RPG's around the place, shouldnt it be a min stnd for armour protection ?

Btw, ive seen pics of russian BMP's in chechnya with wire cages around them... why cant the US adopt this as a quick fix solution till others are worked out ?

seruriermarshal
05-18-2004, 09:08 AM
No , FCS are system , Including UAV , UGV , SUGV ......

martinexsquaddie
05-18-2004, 03:40 PM
Peace keeping etc works much better when you turn up in a warrior than when you turn up in a saxon lots of armour and a chain gun.
and people are going to obey the peace deal
an up armoured SUV with a machine gun and they may feel like argueing the point :(

Tane Angle
05-18-2004, 03:55 PM
I think there's something psychological about treads and turrets, no?

catdat
05-18-2004, 04:00 PM
Tane Angle I have to agree. Wheels look wimpy to me even on Monster Trucks. Tracks yell stay the F@ck out of my way. Can't imagine the armor patch with a big wheel and a lightning bolt.

catdat

wreck
05-18-2004, 04:15 PM
Peace keeping etc works much better when you turn up in a warrior than when you turn up in a saxon lots of armour and a chain gun.
and people are going to obey the peace deal
an up armoured SUV with a machine gun and they may feel like argueing the point :(
So you have no idea about peacekeeping? It has quite little to do with the war what coalition is facing in iraq.