Don't let the politicians leave you defenseless face to criminals

[Alael]

Riots are happening again here in France: 2 young thugs (15 & 16 years old) driving illegally a mini-motorcycle (these kinds of motorcycle are not allowed to run on the road only on circuit: no lights, no blinkers etc..) ran into a police car and killed themselves.
The other thugs living in this "country of human rights" started a riot to avenge them, burning cars, police vehicules, a school, a Mac Donald's restaurant, a police station, shot a police officer with a shotgun hitting him at the shoulder with a 12 caliber slug, throwing incendairy bottles and rocks and iron balls, another police officer lost an eye, 60 Police officers have been wounded up to this day and more will be wounded this night.
The family of the 2 "victims" (who ran into the police car) want to prosecute the police officers for "homicide". While the thungs who try to kill the cops and mutilated them will only receive a slap on the hand in the name of "human rights".

Here even police officers don't really have the right to shoot to protect themselves (on the paper they are told they have this right, but not in fact).

In this country the criminals are trusted, and police always suspected. The thugs just set fire and they are let alone because no politicians have the courage to give orders to stop the thugs.

My wife is US citizen and living here she cannot understand this crap: she feels unsafe here and I agree with her (I'm a Law Enforcement Officer), she longs to get back to the USA as soon as I'll be able to move there with her (after getting my degrees in Forensic Science).

She and I are afraid that this said "human rights" crap contaminates the USA: that the politicians and the freaken intellectuals will take away the right of citizens to defend themselves and even the right of LEO's.
It began like this here: more and more restricted firearms laws, change in law about legitime use of force, death penalty abolition (they even now talk about to abolish lifetime jail sentences, even if in fact a murderer will spent only 15 years in jail), and now even LEO's are left with their hands tied and made to face the dangerous rioters with nothing but their body, because they are not allowed to shoot back, just to count the wounded among them, and happily there has not been any casualities yet, but not because the rioters have not tried but just because of luck.

So US citizens, protect your right to defend yourself, don't follow this crap, don't let your politicians let this crap get into the USA.
There were riots in the USA, but the citizen are not left defenseless, nor the LEO's.

http://tf1.lci.fr/infos/france/0,,3635096,00-evenements-beaucoup-plus-violents-2005-.html

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/file/407267.jpg
http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/file/407268.jpg

[Dasein]

I thought the point of gun rights was so that when it comes time to riot like they are in France, we're not left facing the police with rocks and Molotov cocktails, but are at least on somewhat equal footing?

[Alael]

I thought the point of gun rights was so that when it comes time to riot like they are in France, we're not left facing the police with rocks and Molotov cocktails, but are at least on somewhat equal footing?

Last night one Police Officer was shot with a 12 caliber shotgun the rioters are not supposed to have (pump action shotgun sell is prohibited in France since 1998)... prohibition lets the law abiding citizens unarmed not outlaws...

It's over this point: it's the will to prohibit people to defend themself and to not let them the means to do so (either legal means-- the right to defend yourself-- and material means --the weapons to protect yourself--).

[Dasein]

Are you advocating that Parisians fight it out in the streets? That 'law abiding' Frenchmen form up their own militias and take on these youths? Do you really think that street fighting between armed mobs is the way to go?

[Alael]

No I talk about a whole political situation: they start by restricting more and more the right of "ordinary citizens" to protect themselves, and now even Law Enforcement Officers.

There are hunters here who own firearms but they didn't shoot at any rioter in the 2005 riots, while the rioters killed one man (lately sentenced to 15 year of jail) and burned one woman. So firearms owners are not criminals. And even the cops who bear firearms don't use their in this great danger.

But they should be able to shoot back like in the USA... don't let your cops loose this right.

And if the thugs threat "ordinary citizens" who are in their home by setting fire, yes these citizens should have the right to shoot to protect themselves. But here they don't have this right, neither the means to do it.

[TheBelgian]

I thought Sarko was supposed to be a hard ass. I say put a few RAID and GIPN snipers on the rooftops of these banlieu buildings and pick off a couple of the shooters/molotov cocktail throwers. That'll send the message that this crap cant be tolerated. Sure, there might be some outrage, but you can bet your ass that the majority of the french will be supportive.

[WarriorMonk]

Are you advocating that Parisians fight it out in the streets? That 'law abiding' Frenchmen form up their own militias and take on these youths? Do you really think that street fighting between armed mobs is the way to go?

Well then I beg this question - do you have a better way of dealing with it?

(provided your answer already includes figuring out the "injustices" in the system that is maddening the rioters, or the fact that these militias will probably be guarding important areas to them, even though they probably can't tell friend from foe, or perhaps your answer already includes the fact that it would be easier for the police if the citizenry weren't armed so there isn't as much of a headache trying to figure out who is a rioter and who isn't - well the "militia's" gotta stay inside to make it easier.)

[Cralis]

I think the points he's trying to make are:

A> Don't let your police be crippled legally so they are unable to use their weapons to defend themselves or innocent people.

B> Don't let ourselves become crippled legally so when one of those arsehats breaks down our door with the intention of dragging myself, my wife, or my children into the street, he instead is greeted with a stream of highly accurate high-velocity copper frangibles (or lead, whichever you prefer).

I have to say THAT I COMPLETELY AGREE.

I think that 99% of riot responses in the USA are completely legit, tear-gas, water canon, and all. I was in the area when a riot over the WTO broke out in our largest city in the state, and it wasn't until the "demonstrators" starting breaking store-fronts, overturning cop cars, and charging police lines that they were met with suppressive force. I'm 100% behind it.

[Thom]

Surely the french have contingencies for dealing with riots? It's not like you send out officers in regular gear to deal with these sorts of things surely?


Also I like how you bring in completely unrelated issues into your post.

[pgm]

Here in Italy we have the same riots - with dead and wounded people - almost avery sunday, and just for soccer matches, imagine. We too have very strict weapon laws. And the story is the same about cops, self-defence etc.
It's the "European model", I suppose: we are not the "violent" USA.

[Andreas]

Well the french kind of invented riots dident they Read: "Revolution"

Its the flock of sheep mentality, every human is ****e to this.
People in large groups who feel they are not in danger of being arrested tend to revert to primate behaviour.

I hope this blows over, but I do think the French government should "take the streets back" and dont take any more crap.

Cheers
Andreas