A wierd M240 attachment [Archive]

the_recruit

11-27-2007, 06:29 PM

I know this video has been posted on this website, but a couple of pictures caught my eye and I would like to know if you could help me Identify what I am looking at.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UB6EnuXUiiE

at 1:19 the soldier on the right has a M240B slung low at his waist with what looks like a plastic (or maybe metal?) ammunition case.

at 1:54 you get a close up view at this again.

It is the first time I ever seen anything like that on a 240. You almost always see a gunner with an assistant to help feed ammunition with a 240. This soldier would also carry the tripod for the weapon. Does anyone have any pictures or info on what I am looking at here?

UKWolf

11-27-2007, 06:43 PM

cavtroop4

11-27-2007, 06:46 PM

its an issue ammo pouch for linked 7.62

the_recruit

11-27-2007, 06:49 PM

I haven't seen that ever. I didnt know you can hook an ammo pouch to a 240.

cavtroop4

11-27-2007, 06:52 PM

there is a hook that it attaches to the weapon where the ammo feed plate is at. let me see if i can find anything else for you. i've used it before... junk stuff for me but i suppose others use it

shorty

11-27-2007, 06:54 PM

Ask the airsofters...They'll know straightaway....

the_recruit

11-27-2007, 07:00 PM

cool, any pictures would be great too. thanks for the info again.

Robbee

11-27-2007, 07:12 PM

I'd suspect it's an ITM (In-Theatre Modification) to make the weapon more useable in urban patrols and iraq-style work. Similar in set up to the M249 box, except with twice the punch.

What do you mean, twice the punch?

I know I've seen SAS men (In photos) and Pathfinders who do something similar.

Were the weapons with or without slings?

wayneard3413

11-27-2007, 07:17 PM

Robbee i think he is talking about the 240 having twice the punch of the SAW... And im quite sure the SAS guys had slings but had the Leo commemorative edition combat pants on to make up for it

TheWatcher

11-27-2007, 07:18 PM

The SADF had a teardrop shaped bag with metal lips & belt retainer spring for the MAG, which is basically the same as the 240.
Kept the link clean & out of the way but best of all it actually worked a treat.

cavtroop4

11-27-2007, 07:19 PM

Ask the airsofters...They'll know straightaway....

interesting. you saying that airsofters would know more about a weapon than a soldier who actually had trigger time?

CG51

11-27-2007, 07:21 PM

interesting. you saying that airsofters would know more about a weapon than a soldier who actually had trigger time?

It's a running joke here.

cavtroop4

11-27-2007, 07:23 PM

I couldn't find any more photos on this. It's green vinyl type pouch that holds 100 rds. Its attached to the weapon via ammo attachment clip. It's an extra piece thats attached to the weapon. I founf the clip on the TM but no info on the pouch. Maybe someone else will get lucky

Kap

11-27-2007, 07:25 PM

It's a running joke here.

It sure is. Kinda like how Starfox was giving Beo some "how to look professional" tips.... roflrofl

wayneard3413

11-27-2007, 07:25 PM

Joke nothing... I bet right now there is an airsofter that can tell you the caliber, model, weight and even the type of ammo loaded in the weapon on my side right now

cavtroop4

11-27-2007, 07:26 PM

It's a running joke here.

sorry, my bad, didn't mean to take it personal

wayneard3413

11-27-2007, 07:26 PM

Hey now... There is nothing funny about blousing your DAMN pants!!!!!

Kap

11-27-2007, 07:28 PM

Hey now... There is nothing funny about blousing your DAMN pants!!!!!

I blouse mine everyday with the green / foliage green elastic hook ones. p-)

Laworkerbee

11-27-2007, 07:36 PM

It sure is. Kinda like how Starfox was giving Beo some "how to look professional" tips.... roflrofl

You're ****ting us right? please link me. :)

Hollis

11-27-2007, 07:43 PM

Joke nothing... I bet right now there is an airsofter that can tell you the caliber, model, weight and even the type of ammo loaded in the weapon on my side right now

The sad part that is probably true. Heck the guys who do the Viet-Nam reenacting knows a hell of a lot more about the gear we had, than I ever knew.

Hollis

11-27-2007, 07:44 PM

You're ****ting us right? please link me. :)

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=124335

wayneard3413

11-27-2007, 07:44 PM

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=124335
Cant say ive never done nothing for ya worker bee

wayneard3413

11-27-2007, 07:45 PM

Damn hollis... way to steal my thunder

Kap

11-27-2007, 07:52 PM

God you got pwned. p-)

Laworkerbee

11-27-2007, 07:55 PM

Thanks HOLLiS

Thats right wayneard3413 I don't owe you ****! p-)

God damn that was a funny thread.

Chulo

11-27-2007, 08:02 PM

You're ****ting us right? please link me. :)
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=124348

a whole new award was made for it

Hollis

11-27-2007, 08:09 PM

Damn hollis... way to steal my thunder

Oppps My cat may be do it.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/mesosorry.jpg

muttbutt

11-27-2007, 08:34 PM

I'd suspect it's an ITM (In-Theatre Modification) to make the weapon more useable in urban patrols and iraq-style work. Similar in set up to the M249 box, except with twice the punch.

I know I've seen SAS men (In photos) and Pathfinders who do something similar.
No offence son but your 14 years old, he sure as edited for kids Poo was not asking you....back to your lane now lad.p-)

cavtroop4

11-27-2007, 10:10 PM

found it in my pile of iraq photos while i was there. hope it helps.

DeltaWhisky58

11-28-2007, 01:55 AM

I'd suspect it's an ITM (In-Theatre Modification) to make the weapon more useable in urban patrols and iraq-style work. Similar in set up to the M249 box, except with twice the punch.

I know I've seen SAS men (In photos) and Pathfinders who do something similar.

:cantbeli:

Only 14 and such an expert - I'll know where to come for advice in the future.

Oh just as a matter of interest, can you give me some expert pointers on how to recognise SAS and Pathfinders in photographs as you clearly have these special skills.

andreen

11-28-2007, 05:58 AM

????????
This is a standard GPM/FN MAG/Ksp58B/M240 ammo pouch.
It have been around since the MG was invented.
http://gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/utv_ksp58/ksp58/ksp58d_sv600.jpg

TheWatcher

11-28-2007, 06:16 AM

????????
This is a standard GPM/FN MAG/Ksp58B/M240 ammo pouch.
It have been around since the MG was invented.
http://gotavapen.se/gota/artiklar/utv_ksp58/ksp58/ksp58d_sv600.jpg

Yes Andreen, but different armies have a different CES.

On a related subject, do the gas regulators on the Ksp58C and D models have less ports than the Ksp58B/MAG ?

the_recruit

11-28-2007, 05:30 PM

found it in my pile of iraq photos while i was there. hope it helps.

that helps very much thank you.

kerfuffled

11-28-2007, 07:41 PM

Is this particular item sometimes refered to as a "nutsack"?
Cuz thats what it looks like.:)

TheWatcher

11-28-2007, 07:58 PM

Is this particular item sometimes refered to as a "nutsack"?
Cuz thats what it looks like.:)

If yours is green and brown you've either been playing naked in a field or you'd better get to the STD clinic asap.

Vince S

11-28-2007, 09:46 PM

Found some time ago in the Today's Pics

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d157/pvtvince/Strykersoldier.jpg

Since I don't know **** and don't want to earn DW's new award I won't pretend to know anything about it p-)

Tribunius

11-29-2007, 01:14 AM

Is this particular item sometimes refered to as a "nutsack"?
Cuz thats what it looks like.:)

That it is.

JC0352

11-29-2007, 09:07 AM

JC0352

11-29-2007, 09:10 AM

UKWolf

11-29-2007, 10:18 AM

ITM? :cantbeli:Did the 14 yr old weapons expert think of that all by himself?

My dad told me it. It's what his unit used to call it when he was in the army (80's). Apparently it means a modification to a weapon done by an armourer. For example, mounts for a box on the GPMG (That, according to him, could only carry rounds on the belt, which is bad when you're in a unit that needs everything cammed up.)

Sorry

JC0352

11-29-2007, 11:49 AM

My dad told me it. It's what his unit used to call it when he was in the army (80's). Apparently it means a modification to a weapon done by an armourer. For example, mounts for a box on the GPMG (That, according to him, could only carry rounds on the belt, which is bad when you're in a unit that needs everything cammed up.)

Sorry

I wasn't trying to be a d!ck for no reason. There's alot of kids on here who think they're military experts because they read about it online or because they play 6mm commando on the weekends. Thanks for explaining where you received your information. :)

the_recruit

11-29-2007, 06:19 PM

My dad told me it. It's what his unit used to call it when he was in the army (80's). Apparently it means a modification to a weapon done by an armourer. For example, mounts for a box on the GPMG (That, according to him, could only carry rounds on the belt, which is bad when you're in a unit that needs everything cammed up.)

Sorry

He knows a lot more than me and I research things like this when Im bored. wow

TheWatcher

11-29-2007, 06:22 PM

...which is bad when you're in a unit that needs everything cammed up.

We always paint each individual round in four colour DPM.

UKWolf

11-29-2007, 06:24 PM

We always paint each individual round in four colour DPM.

Bet that makes the working parts of the weapon look lovley and shiny, right? Cleaning the thing must be a right laugh! p-)

Lt. James Anderson

11-29-2007, 06:31 PM

I hope he has an A-gunner nearby with more rounds because that wouldn't last long

It's not suppose to last "long" ... It's not like you would carry more than 50-100 rounds loose belt on the MG anyways (+ 400-600 in your assault pack)... They get caught on stuff, they break easily ...

IMO, that pouch makes sense ... I was trying to get one of those before my last deployment but by the time I found it (I think it was British) it was time to go.

JC0352

11-29-2007, 06:46 PM

It's not suppose to last "long" ... It's not like you would carry more than 50-100 rounds loose belt on the MG anyways (+ 400-600 in your assault pack)... They get caught on stuff, they break easily ...

IMO, that pouch makes sense ... I was trying to get one of those before my last deployment but by the time I found it (I think it was British) it was time to go.

What I meant was that the pouch doesn't hold much ammo and he obviously doesn't have more on his person (at least i don't see more on his IBA and there's just a camelbak on his back). By "not long" I meant he would run out quickly and I hoped he had some more nearby.

I know how akward long belts of linked 7.62 can be. When I was in Ramadi, my truck had a 240 w/ 1000rds in a patrol pack that we could dismount in addition to the Mk19 in the turret (and they weren't all linked together, haha) .

You didn't think i meant for him to have some 200rd belt dangling around did you? :cantbeli:

Hollis

11-29-2007, 06:55 PM

Looks like it could be a posed photo, one of those "hero" pictures that you send home.

JC0352

11-29-2007, 07:00 PM

that's an excellent point!

TheWatcher

11-29-2007, 07:10 PM

We always paint each individual round in four colour DPM.Bet that makes the working parts of the weapon look lovley and shiny, right? Cleaning the thing must be a right laugh! p-)

Don't be daft, we paint the working parts too of course, don't you ?

Lt. James Anderson

11-29-2007, 07:13 PM

That wouldn't make any sense if he didn't carry any more ammo on him. But on the other hand, I've seen worse ...

I kind misunderstood "long" ... I thought you were referring to the ammo on the gun for immediate use ... like, he should carry more on the gun or something. :)

JC0352

11-29-2007, 07:26 PM

yea, i know what you mean... you can only carry so much in the weapon because it already a b!tch to carry on a dismounted patrol like that. it's probably a posed shot like Hollis said, unless he really thought he's good to go with just that much ammo and no A-barrel. it's comfortable to go light, but i'd rather get back alive with a sore back

budgie

11-30-2007, 01:43 AM

Ask the airsofters...They'll know straightaway....

They have better equipment than real soldiers half the time anyway...

the_recruit

12-01-2007, 10:53 AM

It just doesn't make sense to me why then can't just make a plastic ammo box for the 240 that hooks up underneath the thing like the 249. It would make life so much easier.

orange

12-01-2007, 11:07 AM

It just doesn't make sense to me why then can't just make a plastic ammo box for the 240 that hooks up underneath the thing like the 249. It would make life so much easier.
Because plastic is way more high-speed and cool or what? What's wrong with the pouch that's on the gun now?

Or is it more linked belt you'r after? 7,62 ammo weighs a hell of alot more than 5,56 + the fact that the gun itself weighs a sh|tload compared to the 249.

TheWatcher

12-01-2007, 11:17 AM

It just doesn't make sense to me why then can't just make a plastic ammo box for the 240 that hooks up underneath the thing like the 249. It would make life so much easier.

Echo the points made by Orange above, and would add that if you're carrying a MAG/GPMG/240 for any length of time a plastic or metal box is a royal pain as it digs into you.

the_recruit

12-01-2007, 11:23 AM

Because plastic is way more high-speed and cool or what? What's wrong with the pouch that's on the gun now?

Or is it more linked belt you'r after? 7,62 ammo weighs a hell of alot more than 5,56 + the fact that the gun itself weighs a sh|tload compared to the 249.

Well what I meant to say is, why doesn't it hook under the 240 like the plastic can on the 249. They have the same thing for the pouches with the 249. you see this pouch hangs off the side of the gun and it looks like it probably throws the balance off on the weapon. a plastic can or a pouch that hooks under the 240 would probably be a bit more comfortable for the operator. Wieght always is a factor but the pouch only holds 100 rounds from what I learned from this thread thus far. So that should help with some of the wieght problem.

is there any reason why the Army doesn't issue these pouches to more soldiers?

Lt. James Anderson

12-01-2007, 05:11 PM

is there any reason why the Army doesn't issue these pouches to more soldiers?

Yes. The Army is slow to change and always chooses the hard way of doing things.

Plastic box would be too fragile for a machinegun ... and the pouches like the one on picture had been in use with various forces througout the world for a long time, so the chances are - it works (and that's all that matters).

the_recruit

12-01-2007, 06:09 PM

And thats all that matters. Your right.

SnowFella

12-01-2007, 06:18 PM

Another reason why they don't make something that hooks on underneath the M240, like the M249's boxes, could be that the 240 ejects it's empty shells straight down through a port in the bottom of the reciever.
So a box mounted there would block the eject port.

JC0352

12-03-2007, 07:03 PM

is there any reason why the Army doesn't issue these pouches to more soldiers?

that's not what it was designed for. it's made to be a crew served or vehicle/airframe mounted machine gun, but they're adapting to have more firepower in a patrol.

here's one for you airsofters: he's got the pouch to match his gear. enjoy
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f3/070206-A-4520N-166.jpg/800px-070206-A-4520N-166.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/070206-A-4520N-166.jpg)

TheWatcher

12-03-2007, 07:39 PM

that's not what it was designed for. it's made to be a crew served or vehicle/airframe mounted machine gun, but they're adapting to have more firepower in a patrol.

That may well be the case for the 240, but the MAG was designed for use as a GPMG from the start.

The beltbag was definitely meant & used as a patrol bag for a teaser belt, the Belgans had learnt lessons from the German beltboxes.
Armscorp also kept this feature on the SS77.

Catch22

12-04-2007, 07:54 AM

that's not what it was designed for. it's made to be a crew served or vehicle/airframe mounted machine gun, but they're adapting to have more firepower in a patrol.

here's one for you airsofters: he's got the pouch to match his gear. enjoy
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f3/070206-A-4520N-166.jpg/800px-070206-A-4520N-166.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/070206-A-4520N-166.jpg)

That's actually the new patrol ammo pouch developed within PEO Soldier/PM Soldier Weapons. Holds 50rds, but the idea behind it is that pouch is openable - if you look closer at the picture you'll see the press-studs (theres velcro too) on it. Pouch gives 240 gunner a convinient way to carry enough ammo to perform IA drill in case of sudden contact, when the MG firing position is set, the A-Gunner can easily open the ammo bag and attach more linked ammo to the one left in it.

JC0352

12-04-2007, 09:38 AM

That may well be the case for the 240, but the MAG was designed for use as a GPMG from the start.

The beltbag was definitely meant & used as a patrol bag for a teaser belt, the Belgans had learnt lessons from the German beltboxes.
Armscorp also kept this feature on the SS77.

No I agree that it is a GPMG. It just looks from some of these pics that it's being used as a primary by one man instead of a machine gun team.

TheWatcher

12-04-2007, 01:43 PM

That may well be the case for the 240, but the MAG was designed for use as a GPMG from the start.

The beltbag was definitely meant & used as a patrol bag for a teaser belt, the Belgians had learnt lessons from the German beltboxes.
Armscorp also kept this feature on theSS77.No I agree that it is a GPMG. It just looks from some of these pics that it's being used as a primary by one man instead of a machine gun team.

Yup, that kind of defines a GPMG:
General Purpose Machine Gun - mg designed to fulfill the rôles of both the MMG and the LMG.

In this photograph the 240 general purpose machine gun is being used in the light rôle.

JC0352

12-04-2007, 03:45 PM

Yup, that kind of defines a GPMG:
General Purpose Machine Gun - mg designed to fulfill the rôles of both the MMG and the LMG.

In this photograph the 240 general purpose machine gun is being used in the light rôle.

good point. i was a TOW gunner/rifleman and by no means an expert on machine gun employment

Kaplanr

12-06-2007, 12:08 PM

This is what we used to use; I think i got 50 or so in it. The belts around my neck are for the photo, we never-ever carried them that way.
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e373/Kaplanr/3some.jpg
Anything more and it would dislodge bullets from the links and jam. In my ephod I kept 50 round belts instead of clips in 4 pouches, I had a larger British where I kept a 150 round belt, and another 200 rounds in the back pouch. Finally I usually had 1 box on my back, and several other cases around the platoon when we were on foot.

It's heavy stuff after a few k. On paper at least, in addition to what I carried, I was supposesd to be going around with the spare barrel and a homemade ruck with two 7.62 cases brazed together with 500 rounds in it. In theory I was supposed to regularly be able to drop the ruck onto one shoulder, load the belt and fire on the run with the ruck hanging off one side.

Laworkerbee

12-06-2007, 12:13 PM

In theory I was supposed to regularly be able to drop the ruck onto one shoulder, load the belt and fire on the run with the ruck hanging off one side.

How did that work out for you? :)

Kaplanr

12-06-2007, 12:30 PM

How did that work out for you? :)

Aside from the tennis elbow and black & blue marks -- not very well. I think I did it twice in a field exercise and once for a staff demo - controlled environment where it worked beautifully. Other than that it was too ungainly. As it is the brazed boxes are too deep and the belted ammo starts slipping forward (pointy side down) till they're almost standing up.

The reality is we used it as a portable weapon, so we kept the belted ammo in compact quantities to avoid jams and misfires. Even the nutsack couldn't be too long or it hangs down on the ground, folds over itself and causes the links to dislodge.

We practiced very controlled fire, 2-4 shot bursts. I got to the point I could have functioned as a sniper with it. THe hardest part was finding the right balance of ammo load and maintaining mobility. In the IDF, at least then, The MAGist was always up front and was expected to be leading with the officer in the event of a "charge" . Once the gunner starts lagging behind, he's no good cause he can't give cover and he risks hitting everyone in front. THe most wlecome words we'd ever hear were "blah blah blah, 3 men with me and MAGistim (plural) in cover." That meant we could slink off to the oblique side and fire at our leisure.