Pigs' heads at Australian Islamic school site: spokesman

[Snoshi]

SYDNEY (AFP) - Two pigs' heads were found at the site of a proposed Islamic school on Sydney's outskirts Wednesday, the school's backers said.

An Australian flag was draped between the two heads, said Jeremy Bingham, spokesman for the Quranic Society.

"Someone has put a couple of stakes in the ground with a pig's head on the top of each stake and an Australian flag inside," Bingham told AFP.

"The police are treating it as a crime scene and making investigations."

Earlier this month about 1,000 people attended a meeting to protest against the proposed school in Camden, in Sydney's far southwest, while a cross was previously found on the grounds.

Members of the Quranic Society were "a bit upset by it, a bit offended by it", Bingham said.

"Obviously you have got a sick individual (behind the act)," he said.

But he said it would make no difference to a planning proposal going through the local council, which the backers expect to be approved early next year. The local council also said it would not affect its decision.

Police said while they supported peaceful protest they would investigate and prosecute any "unlawful and obscene acts".

The state government's Community Relations Commission condemned the latest protest as "a mindless act".

"This insult and display of hatred is not something any fair-minded Australian would approve of," said commission head Stepan Kerkyasharian in a statement.

Muslim leaders condemned the incident, not the first in Sydney.

"It's just quite sad really, we don't need this rubbish in Australia," Australian Federation of Islamic Councils spokesman Haset Sali said.

In 2005 anti-Muslim sentiment boiled over into ugly riots on the Sydney beach of Cronulla, where rioters targeted people of Middle Eastern appearance.

And in 2004, a severed pig's head was similarly impaled in front of a Muslim prayer centre under construction in Sydney's northwest.

Parts of southwestern Sydney are now heavily populated by Middle Eastern migrants, many of them Iraqi Muslims.

The backers of the school, which would cater to about 1,200 pupils, hope it will open in 2009.

The Quranic Society denies it has any links to militant Islamic groups and says it is simply trying to provide a school where the children of group members can get a good education and religious instruction.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071128/wl_asia_afp/australiareligionrights

[vinny_121_ND]

That's so sick. But it's no secret that australians and muslims have been clashing ever since the cronulla riots. Racism in australia has always been a hot topic going from the indians, the asians to muslims.

[TallGuy]

Racismin australia has always been a hot topic going from the indians, the asians to muslims.
Well, hating muslims isn't racism. Islam is a religion, not a race.

[Chulo]

Well, hating muslims isn't racism. Islam is a religion, not a race.
Racism as a word has been diluted and misused so much right now its more of a catchall for anything that offends you.

[Dasein]

Well, hating muslims isn't racism. Islam is a religion, not a race.

Does that make it ok?

[vinny_121_ND]

Well, hating muslims isn't racism. Islam is a religion, not a race.

fine arabs, middle easterns. Anything not associated with 'white' culture.

[TallGuy]

Does that make it ok?
No, I never said it was. :roll:

[vinny_121_ND]

But, on the flipside, how many churches and synagogues get vandalized from islamic militants? Lots, and they don't get the same attention, and when they do, it's the same explanation here (small minority, does not reflect the whole society)

[Freibier]

Cool stunt, two thumbs up!

[Breakfast in Vegas]

Those poor pigs!

[Kilkenny]

Wonder if they were purchaced from the Pickton farm? fattened up on dead hookers.

[seraosha]

Be a little expensive shipping them from BC, but their hearts are in the right place...if not their heads.

[Flounder]

Hope that the rest of the pigs got a decent burial......smothered in BBQ sauce on a bed of rice.

[Dasein]

But, on the flipside, how many churches and synagogues get vandalized from islamic militants? Lots, and they don't get the same attention, and when they do, it's the same explanation here (small minority, does not reflect the whole society)

Do they really? Do you have evidence that churches and synagogues are vandalized specifically by Muslims as opposed to some other group?

[Chulo]

Do they really? Do you have evidence that churches and synagogues are vandalized specifically by Muslims as opposed to some other group?

LOL welcome to the new century

[Dasein]

LOL welcome to the new century

Do you have evidence, chulo_allen?

[Zoomie]

Do they really? Do you have evidence that churches and synagogues are vandalized specifically by Muslims as opposed to some other group?
And do you happen to have any evidence for the opposite, that the mosques are being targeted by Christians or Jews? Or is it going to be a case of Everyone vs. The Muslims?

[Jaeger07]

Do you have evidence, chulo_allen?

Well here in norway a crazed, muslim man shot at a synagoge in Oslo with an AK-47, he also said he would blow it up with dynamite.
Hes now on vacation behind bars...

But back on track: That sure is vandalizing, and IMO worse than some pig-heads, but have you heard of that incident... didnt think so.

This is the guy:

http://cache.aftenposten.no/multimedia/archive/00635/NB___R_DMERKET_-_ti_635909s.jpg

Link (norwegian): http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article2095450.ece

This happened in _quiet_ norway...

[dava]

Happens here as well in Belgium
Young muslims setting fire to synagoges or attacking young jews/spitting on them.
As the riots in Paris once show again, some of these young immigrants are really a pain in the arse.

[Chulo]

Do you have evidence, chulo_allen?
jezzz there are tons of events that happen everyday that dont get international media attention.
but here is one that did
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan
about 1500 years old and the Muslims decide to blow them up since they were "evil"


heres one from nov 28th - Radical Muslims destroy Indonesian church (http://www.christiantoday.com/article/radical.muslims.destroy.indonesian.church/14952.htm)

[Dasein]

Churches and Synagogues are common targets of vandals, some acting for political reasons. Do you have any proof that most of these attacks are committed by Muslims acting on religious prejudice as opposed to some other type of attack? If so, please provide this evidence. If not, please stop making such unsubstantiated claims.

[Chulo]

Churches and Synagogues are common targets of vandals, some acting for political reasons. Do you have any proof that most of these attacks are committed by Muslims acting on religious prejudice as opposed to some other type of attack? If so, please provide this evidence. If not, please stop making such unsubstantiated claims.
lol did you even read the article or links i gave you?

EVERYONE knows that the Taliban blew up the monuments - there was an international outcry, it wasnt vandals or some political reason, there was a religious reason for them to destroy those old temples

as for that news article, since you didnt read it


A Protestant church in the Indonesian province of West Java has been destroyed by a group of 250 “radical Muslims” according to Open Doors.
The Muslims from the “Anti Apostasy Movement Alliance” (AAMA) entered the Pasundan Christian Church in the South Bandung area of West Java by force.
Although no one was in the church at the time the husband and children of Pastor Cristine Yohanes were forced to hide nearby, according to Open Doors.
The militants held an Islamic prayer service in the church before proceeding "to destroy the interior with sticks and knifes", said Pastor Timorason, leader of the West Java branch of Christian Communication Forum, which is an umbrella group of Indonesian churches, reports BosNewsLife.
The attack destroyed the sound installation, glass works and chairs. The church has been attacked before by the AAMA, which claims to have 300 members.
In 2005, Christians were forced to close their buildings when local authorities said they did not have the proper documents to operate.
Despite the arrest of two suspects, Pastor Timorason has said that the police are reluctant to act against the militants.
He said, "We urge the government to take this case seriously because we have heard that a dozen other churches have been nominated for attacks in the coming weeks," according to BosNewsLife.
Over 100 churches have been closed in West Java in recent years due to concerns that radical Islam has been on the increase. [B]According to Open Doors 2007 alone 25 Christian places of worship were forced to close, attacked or destroyed by militants. The perpetrators of the attacks are usually not apprehended by the authorities.

[Firetxmi]

A handful of incidents does not make a majority- on either side of the argument.

[Chulo]

as for the Buddahs


The statues were destroyed by dynamite over the course of weeks starting in early March.
On March 6 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_6), the London Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Times) quoted Mullah Mohammed Omar as stating, "Muslims should be proud of smashing idols. It has given praise to God that we have destroyed them." He had clearly changed his position from being in favor of the statues to being against them. During a March 13 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_13) interview for Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan)'s Mainichi Shimbun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainichi_Shimbun), Afghan Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmad Mutawakel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakil_Ahmad_Mutawakel) stated that the destruction was anything but a retaliation against the international community for economic sanctions: "We are destroying the Buddha statues in accordance with Islamic law and it is purely a religious issue".
On March 18 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_18), The New York Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Times) reported (http://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/19/world/19TALI.html?ex=1142571600&en=e5ba6c267eada53a&ei=5070) that a Taliban envoy said the Islamic government made its decision in a rage after a foreign delegation offered money to preserve the ancient works. The New York Times also added, however, that other reports "have said the religious leaders were debating the move for months, and ultimately decided that the statues were idolatrous and should be obliterated."
Then Taliban Ambassador-at-large (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambassador-at-large), Sayed Rahmatullah Hashemi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayed_Rahmatullah_Hashemi), said that the destruction of the statues was carried out by the Head Council of Scholars after a single Swedish monuments expert proposed to restore the statues' heads. Hashimi is reported as saying: "When the Afghani head council asked them to provide the money to feed the children instead of fixing the statues, they refused and said, 'No, the money is just for the statues, not for the children'. Herein, they made the decision to destroy the statues

[Chulo]

A handful of incidents does not make a majority- on either side of the argument.

yes, but the issue was that...

Do they really? Do you have evidence that churches and synagogues are vandalized specifically by Muslims as opposed to some other group?

does it happen? and i said yes it does, and he argues that its vandals and others and not Muslims

Churches and Synagogues are common targets of vandals, some acting for political reasons. Do you have any proof that most of these attacks are committed by Muslims acting on religious prejudice as opposed to some other type of attack? If so, please provide this evidence. If not, please stop making such unsubstantiated claims.

[Firetxmi]

The key word in the quote of his that you cited was most.

You make it sounds as if there is an pandemic of Muslims running around here vandalizing synagogues and churches.

[Dasein]

Vinny_121_DDS originally claimed that 'lots' of churches and synagogues were being vandalized by Islamic militants, and that such vandalism is not reported by the media. Now, the destruction of the Bamyan Buddha statues by the Taliban was a highly publicized event, so that doesn't apply.

To clarify, a couple of things would need to be demonstrated:

1. Islamic militants are actually responsible for vandalism of churches and synagogues in numbers comparable to other types of vandalism - both politically and not politically motivated (ie, neo-Nazis vandalizing a synagogue or some kids spray painting pentagrams on a church).

2. Such incidents of vandalism are reported in the media at a lower rate than other incidents of vandalism.

[Murph]

For some strange reason all of this reminds me of that book: Lord of the Flies, By William Golding

[vinny_121_ND]

It's difficult to pinpoint who vandalized what, but there have been documented cases of certain individuals of whatever religious group doing the defamation that gives a bad name to entire community.

But, I think we should not forget that there are those lurking white supremacists who want the destroy all religious property. I shouldn't have been quick to blame anybody without thoroughly looking at social science journals.
http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=30684

From the above link, the postings are pretty scary how some people are.

[Dasein]

Don't think for a second that militants will let christians, jews, buddhists, hindus walk, and worship freely. This is jihad, struggle to convert non believers into believers of islam with whatever means possible. Dasein, I'm sure you think the militants give islam a bad name, but that's how it is. It's unbelievable, but I think you need to realize that as long as there are different people, different religious beliefs, then there will always be a 'us' versus 'them'. Every group has its few bad apples.

Yet for centuries, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and others have lived, worked and worshiped together in relative peace in predominately Muslim societies. Why is that?

[vinny_121_ND]

Yet for centuries, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and others have lived, worked and worshiped together in relative peace in predominately Muslim societies. Why is that?

Alright, let's take a page from wiki islam.

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/History_of_Jihad

There have been no protests so far, so it's 100% accurate.

So, on the right hand column, I see jihad against just about every group from 622 to 1683. What happened from 1683 to 1948 (israel) I don't know.

[Dasein]

Alright, let's take a page from wiki islam.

http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/History_of_Jihad

There have been no protests so far, so it's 100% accurate.

So, on the right hand column, I see jihad against just about every group from 622 to 1683. What happened from 1683 to 1948 (israel) I don't know.

That site seems to consider every war waged by an Islamic power, from the imperial conquests of the Caliphates to later wars waged by the Ottomans and the various Muslim states to be a jihad. Further, it seems to use a limited definition of Jihad - that of holy war - as opposed to the more general notion of jihad as a struggle.

Further, it gives no insight into the treatment of other religions within the boundaries of the various Muslim-controlled lands. However, we know, for example, that during the 12th and 13th centuries, Muslim lands were quite tolerant of other religions. Being a Jew in the 12th century, living in any of the major Muslim cities would have been preferable to any of the cities of Christian Europe.

[haze99]

You don't get out much, do you daesin?
I would venture to say you have not heard of the plight of the Iraqi Christian's? (I won't even go into what has happend in Kosovo!)
But, why bother, islam is the greatest, isn't it? That is why they have so many people immigrating to Syria, Libya, Yemen, Oman and Pakistan.

[Zoomie]

Yet for centuries, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and others have lived, worked and worshiped together in relative peace in predominately Muslim societies. Why is that?
That's called the past, we live in the present.

[Dasein]

You don't get out much, do you daesin?
I would venture to say you have not heard of the plight of the Iraqi Christian's? (I won't even go into what has happend in Kosovo!)
But, why bother, islam is the greatest, isn't it? That is why they have so many people immigrating to Syria, Libya, Yemen, Oman and Pakistan.

How long has Iraq been primarily a Muslim country? How long has the Christian community lived there largely unmolested?

The Christian community in Iraq has been harassed in the past few years, but as the tide in Iraq turns, the Christians are being welcomed back. What we've seen in the past few years is the exception, not the norm for that religious minority.

[Dasein]

That's called the past, we live in the present.

So what's changed?

[Zoomie]

So what's changed?
Radical Islam. Look around you. Whipping and jail time for naming a teddy Mohammad? Death threats over cartoons? :roll:

[Kilgor]

Radical Islam. Look around you. Whipping and jail time for naming a teddy Mohammad? Death threats over cartoons? :roll:

Bali is also a factor too.

[LRPV]

So what's changed?

The re-emergence of violent imperialist Islam.

[Dasein]

The re-emergence of violent imperialist Islam.

Islam has always been violent and imperialist, but at the height of it's empire, it was also probably at the most tolerant of any time in its history. If anything, I'd say the opposite is the case - Islam has become impotent and marginalized, and that's the problem.

During the golden days of the Caliphates, Islam was prosperous, cosmopolitan and open, and I would argue that it was because of this prosperity that the Muslim world was open. From a practical standpoint, prosperity is based heavily on trade, and trade means interacting with other cultures in a peaceful manner. Additionally, when one is powerful and secure, one can afford to be tolerant. Conversely, with weakness comes intolerance and radicalism.

[CPL Trevoga]

Yet for centuries, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and others have lived, worked and worshiped together in relative peace in predominately Muslim societies. Why is that?

In which societies? Enlighten us.

[hughdotoh]

Islam has always been violent and imperialist, but at the height of it's empire, it was also probably at the most tolerant of any time in its history. If anything, I'd say the opposite is the case - Islam has become impotent and marginalized, and that's the problem.

During the golden days of the Caliphates, Islam was prosperous, cosmopolitan and open, and I would argue that it was because of this prosperity that the Muslim world was open. From a practical standpoint, prosperity is based heavily on trade, and trade means interacting with other cultures in a peaceful manner. Additionally, when one is powerful and secure, one can afford to be tolerant. Conversely, with weakness comes intolerance and radicalism.

Wahhabis are powerful and secure in Saudi Arabia, but they are intolerant of other religions. Most other Gulf types are rich but they openly dislike Jews.

On the other hand, Palestinians are more tolerant of Christians and Jews, but they are so broke they can't pay attention.

If anything, it's the rich and influential who're paying the ignorant and poor to keep the former in power.

Jet-age Jihad: rich sheik's war, poor jihadi's fight.

[LaoSexMachine]

Blind faith and obedience=Disaster.

[Litti]

Bunch of morons trying to be clever. Probably some lowlife unemployed scum who have nothing better to do. Like most of these people who call themselves proud <insert country>.

[lider_r]

LOL welcome to the new century

this is not forgetting that Australia's now former prime minister openly embraced a church group which calls for the destruction of mosques, casino's and bottle shops (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22546811-2,00.html).

To have a nutty religious group like this in society is one thing, for a nations leader to give them endorsement is another. Unfortunatly, fundamentalism against muslims in Australia has been encouraged by the very people who are supposed to be fighting it.

[khukuri]

The difference is when some few muslims sabotage synagogues we criticize them, some here on the other hand are cheering the same thing done to muslims. Thats what makes you just as bad as the muslims who act like aholes, you in the same boat you...

[Zoomie]

Here's some interesting stats:
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7064/1fbistatsak2.jpg

[toki]

Here's some interesting stats:
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7064/1fbistatsak2.jpg

The left chart should include the nineties. To begin with a year that probably represents an all time peak makes it kinda meaningless.

[GokOguz]

Hmmmm..This topic will need a muslim comment i think..

First my question is simple..

Which countries were supportin radicalism aganist Soviets and political religion too?

Who make a movie for them?

i writin as a muslim who visited church and synagog and tryin to have idea about different believes..

and i have christian and jewish friends too..

Livin in a secular republic and will be really big problem who interest to change our regime with so called democracy..

Every extremist or radicalist ideas threatin wise people..

I think everyone watched about a woman who tryin to use kids for her ideas in USA..

Or who killed Yitzhak Rabin..

Bout Al Qaida&Laden and Wahabism..

I asked same question to Thomas Pm Barnett after readin his book how violence rised in Afghanistan after Hz.Muhammed(SAV) caricatures..

Taliban found how many people for joinin them after this and Al Qaida too?

How many soldiers or innocent people give their life reason was him..

And after he said;

I did it for beei famous..

21 Century?

Yes..

Century of money..

Century of for beein famous popular intellectual insult a religion nation or insult army oh with lie peace words you can be great..

But..

Your freedom of expression or brain masturbate cannot kill young people on the battlefield..

I rememberin some news before Pope visitin Turkiye.How they were makin propaganda..When everything okay some people start to insult Pope isnt it interesting?

Same for Skinheads too they are most ignorant people i ever seen..

And we livin in century of communication?

If its how prejudices risin like that..

PS : Statistics are meaningless

Problem is some idiots are usin them for propaganda..

and some politicians sh*t the f** up for 1 more vote..

[Murph]

Engrish pleze?