Pregnant woman held down, tasered

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Pregnant woman held down, tasered

By staff writers
November 30, 2007 11:42am

Article from: http://www.news.com.au/images/sources/news_sourcelogo.gif (http://www.news.com.au/)
Font size: + (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22847362-2,00.html#) - (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22847362-2,00.html#)
Send this article: Print (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22847362-2,00.html#) Email (http://www.news.com.au/email/popup/0,23605,22847362-2,00.html)

FOOTAGE of a pregnant woman being held down on her stomach while being Tasered by a police officer has emerged in the middle of a US federal investigation.

Shocking CCTV footage of the incident, which occurred nearly two weeks ago outside of a police station in Trotwood, Ohio, is being distributed online.



According to police, the woman had gone to the station with her one-year-old son in hope of giving up custody of the boy, television station WHIO reported.

After a short argument, a struggle broke out between the officer – who moved the boy out of harms way - and the woman.

The officer then shoved the woman onto her pregnant stomach and Tasered her in the neck.

Trotwood Public Safety Director Michael Etter told WHIO that an officer was trying to find out information from the woman before the incident.

“(He) attempted to obtain information on both the mother and the child, at which time the mother refused to give any information and became very agitated,” Mr Etter said.

“She did not disclose, even after she was arrested, that she was pregnant.”

Mr Etter said that the woman was wearing a large coat at the time.

The US Federal Bureau of Investigations is investigating the matter. The young boy has reportedly been put into the custody of a relative.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22847362-2,00.html

[WarriorMonk]

shyte this Taser madness never seems to end!

either that or:

1 - some holier-than-thou cop watcher is getting lucky
2 - or some police departments are getting a little lax on their psych evaluations...

[Creeper]

too many cops are 'taser happy' these days,,, however, I feel plain fashion police techiniques need to be revisted>

[Hollis]

maybe but it into perspective....... for the cop bashers here.

BTW, this year has seen a mark rised in the number of LEO killed in the line of duty.

http://home1.gte.net/vzn05sxc/lawfacts.htm

[usm2b]

Wow this **** does seem ridiculous... but, considering the amount of loonies, and criminals police deal with ALL across the country day to day, the number of these stories are pretty low. Also, when we think of pregnant lady, we think of a gentle woman glowing with happiness and the miracle of life. Don't know the details here...but I've seen crackwhores who are pregnant as well.

[ronnieraygun]

Meh, it's the media flavor of the moment. Kind of like missing white girl syndrome. There have been people tasered all the time but only now you will hear about each one of them. The ambitious young journalism majors have to keep up with each other.

On the other hand, this is a relatively new thing, so you will hear even more discussion as to its use.

[Buckeye67]

Don't know the details here...

That's the main point that folks are missing in their rush to spout off with their righteous indignation.

[Creeper]

lol ,,i am not cop 'bashing' in any shape or form,,,, i will argue the fact that a trained officer who does not use an effective communcation technique(s) - seem to quickly retreat to his Taser.

just a subtle arguement,,,,

[Buckeye67]

..and a subtler argument is that people who aren't trained police officers and/or who don't have all of the facts of a situation at their disposal shouldn't shoot their proverbial mouths off.

[Creeper]

..and a subtler argument is that people who aren't trained police officers and/or who don't have all of the facts of a situation at their disposal shouldn't shoot their proverbial mouths off.

who is doing that? if you are referring to oui, I am just stating my opinion of the general climate of the usage of tasers - or the frequency of usage,,,

I am not going to stay past my bed time justifying my position.

LOL!

[dimasorokine]

I've seen so many of these videos it's not even funny, these cops behave like cowards in so many instances, using tasers and clubs to apprehend women...I know there are plenty of good cops out there, but it seems like a large amount of them are just cowardly losers with guns that get hard-ons from their authority.

-Dima

[Buckeye67]

Basing your opinion on something more factual than your knee-jerk reaction to a few news articles might be a good idea.

But nahhh... it's more fun to slag police officers as a whole my making ignorant wide-sweeping generalizations.

Edit: That goes for both of you.

[Creeper]

My friend, I am not commenting on this thread based on a "knee-jerk reaction" from a couple of articles. How about basing my opinion from the general climate of the society that I live in? Will that satisfy your standards - I drive to the city in order to earn a pay check - take a EMT course at nite - as well as having performed only 48 hours of Amb. clinicals. I have seen enough - first hand - to base MY opinion. That , my friend , is all it is - just a few words.


this thread could possibly be merged with the following:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=124611

[Carib]

Basing your opinion on something more factual than your knee-jerk reaction to a few news articles might be a good idea.

But nahhh... it's more fun to slag police officers as a whole my making ignorant wide-sweeping generalizations.

Edit: That goes for both of you.


OH BROTHER.... I'm going to bed, the holier than thou Buckeye is looking to trade shots again

[dimasorokine]

Basing your opinion on something more factual than your knee-jerk reaction to a few news articles might be a good idea.

But nahhh... it's more fun to slag police officers as a whole my making ignorant wide-sweeping generalizations.

Edit: That goes for both of you.

First off, my opinion is based on personal experience and logical thinking. Second, I didn't "slag police officers as a whole". You're the one replying to two people at once, with a knee jerk responce I might add.

Personally, I don't believe in the whole "Respect the police officers, they're here to protect us" BS. It's a job, they chose it, and they chose it for many different reasons. I'll respect them if they're good at it (most are just avarage).

-Dima

[Buckeye67]

OH BROTHER.... I'm going to bed, a guy who's actually done this stuff for a living, and trained other police officers in use of force, is posting in the thread.

Fixed. Douchebag.

[Buckeye67]

I've seen so many of these videos it's not even funny, these cops behave like cowards in so many instances, using tasers and clubs to apprehend women...I know there are plenty of good cops out there, but it seems like a large amount of them are just cowardly losers with guns that get hard-ons from their authority.

-Dima

No, no idiotic generalizations in this post at all... and by "no idiotic generalizations at all" I mean "this entire post is one big idiotic generalization".

How many police officers are there in the United States (and Canada)? How many uses of force are there on a daily basis? What percentage of those involve tasers? What percentage of those uses for force involving tasers are "abuse"?

You don't know. You're talking out of your asshole. When you call "a large amount" of police officers "cowards" you're painting with an extremely large brush that you have no basis for using.

[Creeper]

Well ,,,,there you have it,,,,I really did not want to see this thread become all mucked up,,,, but it has,,,,

hasta la vista amigos.

[Carib]

Now now Buckeye67 watch the name calling. I know we all can't be Super Troopers like yourself :roll:

[Desk Jockey]

..and a subtler argument is that people who aren't trained police officers and/or who don't have all of the facts of a situation at their disposal shouldn't shoot their proverbial mouths off.

Question for the LEOs,

Is the problem that people (media etc.) make judgments based on snippets of video without the entire story? Or is it that you believe that just trained police officers should be able to judge other cops?

If so what is the point of civilian review boards and more importantly, when cops do go to trial for alleged illegal on the job actions is a "jury of their peers" ie. citizens of the community acceptable as is the current standard or would you want it just to be other cops?

Who is qualified to judge?

[seraosha]

Lets get back on topic...that bitch was going to a police station to surrender her child to their care, because she no longer wanted custody of the child.

And she was pregnant, again, and lord only knows how many other children were at her place of residence.

Sterilization would be a better solution than tazering, but I guess you have to start somewhere.

[Hollis]

Part of this is focus of the media. If the media does not report it, did it ever happen?

Currently LEOs killed in the line of duty is up about 30% over last year. That close to one being killed every 2 days (approximate figures). Every two days a LEO is reported Killed and a number of media outlets publish that and editorial are written on it. Imagine what would happen in a week, there would be a outcry to do something. Family members of LEO would not want that member to go to work, etc.

So maybe our cop critics can think about that. There is a big difference in hind sight and not knowing what is going on and walking into a situation.

If you remember back a kid with a toy pistol was shot by a LEO who mistaken the toy for real. Since then toy gun manufacturers color the end of the barrel with a blaze orange paint, so people know it is a toy gun.

Good Idea?

Well some of the gang bangers in Calif, would color the end of the barrel of their real gun with blaze orange paint. Still think it is a good idea?

NOW Tasers, I was never trained on one. They are popular because they offer a better GENERAL alternative to a baton or lethal method.

Also keep in mind, when a LEO engages a suspect, not much is known at the time. Issues like heart conditions, other medical conditions, personality issues etc.

One of the goals that LEO share with everyone else, is the desire to finish work and go back home to be with the family.

One thing for certain, agencies and governmental bodies that have oversight of agencies and insurance companies along with a army of lawyers are reviewing the use of tasers.

There is no truly less than lethal weapon. All of them have pros and cons, or trade offs. I am sure the officers involved would have greatly preferred a cooperative suspect than to have to use any force.

[Mastermind]

No...the Police are not at fault here...nor is the woman considering the sscant information we have. But, consider this.

When you have a weapon that is "less than lethal" or supposedly so, you have far less inhibition against using it. If you have been issued a weapon, the tendency is to use it. If the only weapon the cop had was a steel baton, he probably would have used that. I question where his training was for simple "grappling" skills in restraining this "poor defenselss pregnant woman".

I have been participant in a melee of several officers trying to restrain and subdue a lone, small middle aged man....in the heat of "battle" the adrenaline flows and their strength is not just amazing, it is friggn' unbelievalbe. I know for sure that had I had a Taser available, I damn sure would have used it many times instead of grappling skills. Everyone comes away from a "wrestling" match with bruises, skin missing on elbows and knees, uniforms ripped (we had to pay for them out of our salary in those days) and small fingernail cuts and sometimes nasty bite wounds.

I was participant in a prosecuition of two County Officers who were using their old fashioned stun guns to torture inmates who had back talked them ...they would actually hand cuff a guy in an isolation cell and then shock him several times until the guy would throw up or siht....then laugh like hell and then toss him back into his regular cell like nothing had happened. Some of the inmates had burn marks from being stunned repeatedly at high voltage. If they had not had the stun guns, they probably would have used a bucket full of ice water...tossed on the inmate while he was sleeping....or slap him around with a bar of soap in a sock...less than lethal, but hurts like hell. For longer term inmates, they would use starvation, or even sleep deprivation. No matter what you may think of modern way, these things, no doubt, go on to this day...it's just too easy to do. Not everyone has an ACLU lawyer tagging around their cell blocks. (I have heard of all the little nasty things from prisons and county jails having experience working in the industry for 12 years as a guard). You would be amazed at the crap bored guards and inmates can come up with to do for entertainment at 01:30 in the morning..

[California Joe]

Question for the LEOs,

Is the problem that people (media etc.) make judgments based on snippets of video without the entire story? Or is it that you believe that just trained police officers should be able to judge other cops?

If so what is the point of civilian review boards and more importantly, when cops do go to trial for alleged illegal on the job actions is a "jury of their peers" ie. citizens of the community acceptable as is the current standard or would you want it just to be other cops?

Who is qualified to judge?

IMO, Reporting of these incidents is usually very sensationalized. Cops judging other cops usually have a better frame of referrence than the average citizen that read an article and has never been in harms way. Much like military BTDTs.

The trouble is that there are assholes in any profession that drag down the rest of them. Then there is a certain "us vs. them" mentality that can develop where protecting another cop becomes more important then responsibility to the general public because they "just don't get it..."

Insular communities tend to protect their own. Often this becomes a detriment. But it is necessary within the community. You need to know someone has your back.

This place is a good example of that. I think the LEOs and formers are actually very well behaved and willing to share their personal knowledge to a point. I think the insight of pros should be welcome. Everytime there is one of these threads, cops and former cops usually say things like "we don't have enough information to judge"..."If they did do that then they should be up on charges" "It's easier to tase someone and go home after your shift then beat the piss out of someone with a baton or shoot them..."

I once had to try and restrain some mutt that was dusted on PCP. He was already in holding when he freaked out and started beating the piss out of everyone in close proximity. 3 of us landed on him hard. We simply had to to restrain him. That could have easily been reported as "police beat subject while in custody". It's all about perception. Post one of these threads the day one of our members get a speeding ticket and their respose is likely to be "All cops should die..."

[Mastermind]

^^^^ What Joe Said x 3

[Laworkerbee]

Great post CJ

And an even greater post fixing there Buckeye67

[hank]

Everytime there is one of these threads, cops and former cops usually say things like "we don't have enough information to judge"..."If they did do that then they should be up on charges" "It's easier to tase someone and go home after your shift then beat the piss out of someone with a baton or shoot them..."

I agree with everything you've said in that post. I will say, though, that the quality of reporting these days is often so bad that this can be said for just about every "fact" we read or see, regardless of whether it relates to LEO or not. There is so much spin and insinuation related to every story that we never know what happens based on the stories.

I experience that all the time with lawyer stories. People get a little info that conveniently leaves out something highly pertinent and run with it. Once that happens objectivity is out the window for the reader and the follow-up stories.

Certainly there is an element of the blue line any time there are allegations against cops but that would not apply to me as I'm not LEO. I read these stories with a great bit of skepticism because I know the sources.

Also, there are very few times, if any, in which you can read isolated stories and make generalizations about an entire profession. That certainly applies here.

hank

[California Joe]

I think reports in general are written for effect not necessarily accuracy. hank is right there are a lot of legal issues written about that are completely misinterpreted. Much like a lot of reporting from Afghanistan and Iraq etc. as the militiary folks are well aware of.

Just looking over the article it occurred to me that the police had no idea the woman was pregnant. But to read the title and first paragraph, one would assume that we had a woman 8.75 months, out to --------------here, about ready to pop, clutching her pregnant belly while the jackbooted thugs flopped her on the ground, flattening her belly, jumping on her spine, potentially destroying her unborn child, blah, blah...

[playtym]

I think reports in general are written for effect not necessarily accuracy. hank is right there are a lot of legal issues written about that are completely misinterpreted. Much like a lot of reporting from Afghanistan and Iraq etc. as the militiary folks are well aware of.

Just looking over the article it occurred to me that the police had no idea the woman was pregnant. But to read the title and first paragraph, one would assume that we had a woman 8.75 months, out to --------------here, about ready to pop, clutching her pregnant belly while the jackbooted thugs flopped her on the ground, flattening her belly, jumping on her spine, potentially destroying her unborn child, blah, blah...

Selling newspapers is first and foremost a business, headlines like this are designed to boost sales.

[Hollis]

Like the writer of "taser nation" thread, look how it is written, adjectives used. How the information or lack of information is presented.

Like CJ is saying, the article paints a picture that is far from factual.

According to the article,

This:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/rosieksm.jpg

is actually this:

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k226/Hollis6475/Raquel.jpg

[wicked_hind]

I think the other problem a lack of good journalism creates is everytime the general public reads a story like this without knowing all the facts, and what led to the situation, it would only lead to a further mistrust by some towards the law enforcement community-not to mention it only adds more fuel to the fire to groups who use stories like these to paint a very ugly picture of law enforcement.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Well said Joe and Mastermind.

I see two things happening here.

1. Yes the media is at times being over sensationalist, however it is still putting it in the public domain which does hold the government/police to account. If the media didn't report such incidents (irrespective of the headlines) which no the police would want who is going to hold them to account?

2. With the advent of such devices (tasers, pepper spray and so forth) the use of these devices gives the impression that the police are resorting to these devices only because it makes the public more compliant, it's intimidating and makes there job easier. Think about it. Back in days gone by if a person copped a beating by the police he generally deserved. Now it appears that police are using these devices when there is no real need.

[Laconian]

Here, in my humble opinion, is one of the problems with use of force in LE. OC spray and the TASER are touted as alternatives to going hands on. Some agencies, whether they are looking to protect officers, or subjects or because they have a crappy DT program put their use very low and so officers have tendency to go to the OC/TASER instead of going hands-on. Many agencies have adopted the TASER at the first sign of resistance.

You can not arrest someone that is fighting you. It can't be done. You have to do something - strike, pressure point, take-down, OC, TASER - whatever to gain compliance. The TASER is the easiest thing to use, and it allows the officer to do so at a stand-off distance or in this case up close. Her pregnancy is really irrelevant (especially since the officers didn't know it at the time) was the use of the TASER justified? I don't know the agency's policy. But remember this is the legal standard in the US: Officers are not required to use the least amount of force necessary, only that amount of force that is reasonable to perform the LE mission.

I see it used a lot in situations where I would not use it, but that doesn't make it wrong or illegal.

[Kaplanr]

Part of this is focus of the media. If the media does not report it, did it ever happen?
. . .
Currently LEOs killed in the line of duty is up about 30% over last year. That close to one being killed every 2 days (approximate figures). Every two days a LEO is reported Killed and a number of media outlets publish that and editorial are written on it. Imagine what would happen in a week, there would be a outcry to do something. Family members of LEO would not want that member to go to work, etc . . .

There are lies, damn lies and statistics.

Hollis, according to the FBI's Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted
statistics http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2006/index.html 114 LEOs were killed in the line of duty in 2006 (2007 doesn't come out until the fall.) but the breakdown is interesting. All were State or city LEOs, none federal.
48 were killed feloniously (their terminology.)
66 were killed accidentally
--38 officers died in 2006 as a result of automobile accidents.
--13 officers were struck and killed by vehicles; 9 of these victim officers were directing traffic/assisting motorists, etc., and 4 were performing traffic stops, instituting roadblocks, etc.
--8 officers died of injuries sustained in motorcycle accidents.
--4 officers died as a result of accidental shootings (crossfires, training sessions, cleaning mishaps, etc.)

[Laconian]

From http://www.nleomf.org/ = National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund.

Preliminary 2007 Law Enforcement Officer Fatality Statistics
as of December 1, 2007

2007 2006 %Change
Total Fatalities 173 134 +29%
Gunshots 65 46 +41%
Traffic Incidents 77 69 +12%
Other Causes 31 19 +63%

2007 Fatalities - Top 10 States
Texas = 22 Missouri = 6
Florida = 15 Ohio = 6
California = 9 Arizona = 5
Louisiana = 9 Georgia = 5
N. Carolina = 8 Indiana = 5
New York = 8 S. Carolina = 5
Federal Agencies = 18

Learn more about officer fatalities or find information about a fallen officer.
*Note: The 2007 figures are preliminary and subject to change.

You were saying....

[Eztyga]

I think what is missed, and it is tragic, is the amount of people who are affected by mental problems who the police now have to deal with because the government has decreased or completely got rid of organisations that looked after them.

This has resulted in some deaths here in Oz, usually by hand-guns as we haven't adopted tasers as yet.

As a person who has worn uniform for twenty years, I am disturbed that the police forces of the developed world are becoming more militarised to a point that we have to help train them, and they consider themselves to be on the same level as us.

In my opinion, most pigs now are soft-cocks who are not worth a pinch of sh#t, scared little f#cks. This is the result of employing people that are required to have a degree as opposed to common sense and street smarts and are physically f#ck all to boot. Nothing like the street cops of old who would actually physically engage a criminal. They were blokes you could respect.

Ezy

[Hollis]

[quote=Kaplanr;2906788]There are lies, damn lies and statistics.

[quote]


Read Laconian below.

Not sure what you are getting at.

Stats are on going here. There was a article in a LEO journal recently on the rise of deaths. Yes not all officers die from attacks. I stated killed in the line of Duty. Purpose of my post was to point out that the media can over focus on a event to make it seem like it is more that what it is in relation to other events.

[Hollis]

In my opinion, most pigs now are soft-cocks who are not worth a pinch of sh#t, scared little f#cks. This is the result of employing people that are required to have a degree as opposed to common sense and street smarts and are physically f#ck all to boot. Nothing like the street cops of old who would actually physically engage a criminal. They were blokes you could respect.

Ezy


Kind of strong wording there. I have hear that all my life from some of the old salts/farts. I bet you heard that when you first started out too. Hell, the military has a lot of old farts that say that.

I disagree, Times have changed, Roles have changed, rules of engagement has changed. It is probably a lot harder to be a cop today that 40 years ago. There is a lot more "professionalism" that is demanded. The day, a badge was slapped on some good boy is long gone, for good reasons.

I was a young Marine about 40 years ago, I tell you, the Old salts stood very tall in my eyes. 40 Year later, the Marines today, still stand tall in my eyes. I first wore a badge over 30 years ago. There have always been small part of any group, that meets your description above, IMHO, they are just a very small group. The vast majority are no where like you just described. I think we demand more than we ever had from our LEOs. I think most are doing a A1 job too.