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J-10
11-30-2007, 05:23 AM
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/nov2007/gb20071129_851610.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_global+business

November 29, 2007, 7:53AM EST
Debunking Myths about China's Legal System
Plenty of misinformation has been circulated about Beijing's laws and lawyers. It's time to acknowledge how much progress has been made

In the recent article on the PRC legal system published in China Economic Review, I was struck by the factual inaccuracy of many of the statements made. The truth is that over the last 10 years China has made remarkable progress in introducing a fully functioning civil law system.

Much work needs to be done, and anyone in China understands the process is just beginning. But the trend is very clear. The Chinese authorities fully understand that economic development and development of a strong legal system go together.

In late 1990, China began adopting the laws and institutions necessary for a modern legal system – a mix of continental European civil law and Asian approaches to law with some Chinese socialist features thrown in. Once it is fully established, the system will look nothing like the US and British common law system, so lawyers trained in these countries will dislike it. But it will do its job of providing the guidance and legal certainty required of a modern market economy.

Data from the Report on China Law Development, published (in Chinese) this year, explodes the five most common myths about the PRC legal system:

Myth No.1: There are no laws in China.

If anything, China has too many laws. Between 1979 and 1983, China promulgated 4,119 laws and regulations, and a further 37,775 between 1996 and 2000. Then the dam broke. In the five-year period from 2001 to 2004, 94,288 laws and regulations were promulgated in China, almost triple the previous five-year period. The pace of Chinese legislation continues at a breathtaking speed, with 2006 seeing the adoption of a property code, individual and corporate tax codes, a labor contract law and an anti-monopoly law. As it now stands, virtually every area of business life in China is covered by a modern statute or regulation.

Myth No.2: There are few lawyers and they are poorly educated.

In 1981, there were only 6,218 lawyers admitted to practice in China. Since there were no legal departments in any of the major Chinese universities, many of these lawyers were poorly trained. By 2005, the number of admitted lawyers had grown to 114,471. Though the number of lawyers is far less than the highly over-lawyered US, it compares favorably with European countries like England, Germany, Italy and Spain, where the number of lawyers ranges from 120,000 to 150,000. Japan has only about 22,000 and Korea about 12,000. The level of education for members of the bar has also improved, with 100% having a post high school education and 54% having college or higher degrees with a specialization in law.

Myth No.3: There are few judges and they are poorly educated.

China has worked especially hard at improving the quantity and quality of its judiciary. In 1987, there were 117,647 judges in China, but only 17% of those judges had received a post high school education. By 2000, this was up to 100%. By 2004, there were 190,961 judges, probably more than any other country in the world. (According to the crime statistics section at Nationmaster.com, there are 67,994 judges in Russia, 29,023 in the US, 6,774 in France and 3,019 in Japan.)

Myth No.4: The laws adopted are meaningless because Chinese people file few lawsuits.

China has seen a tremendous increase in the number of civil lawsuits. In 1981, 1,179,388 decisions were rendered in cases of first instance in China. By 2004, the number had increased to 5,625,310 decisions, up 377%. Meanwhile, the number of mediated civil disputes declined from 7,805,400 in 1981 to 4,414,233 in 2004. Civil disputes formally decided in accordance with the law totaled 10,039,543.

Myth No.5: Chinese statutes are intentionally vague and there is no guidance on interpretation from commentary or case law.

China is a civil law country, and every statute assumes a large body of unstated civil law theory from official and academic commentary. Further, China’s Supreme Court publishes important explanatory comments and cases every year. Fully annotated cases on virtually every major statute are available in large bookstores, but they are usually in Chinese only. For a common law lawyer to try to understand Chinese statutes merely by reading the English language translation is an exercise in futility.

In dealing with China, it is critical to understand the facts. We should not make China an even more difficult place to conduct business by perpetuating stale, old myths that can lead business people to make costly mistakes.

****inson is a partner at Harris Moure PLLC, Seattle, Washington and Shanghai, China.

signatory
11-30-2007, 06:05 AM
I'd say those are fabricated myths to validate pro-chinese propaganda.

Who here recognize those five as average day myths about China ?

A typical myth would be "Chinese criminals get executed without fair trials".

(or actually that's not a myth.. it's fact.)

tsuri
11-30-2007, 06:09 AM
Great to debunk Myths that do not exist. Well the alternative would have been debunking the facts

Fact No. 6: Corruption
China's legal system, as well as basically anything remotely political, is so corrupt that it borders uselessness

Fact No. 7: Rule of Law
It does not exist. Party members do whatever they please without getting in trouble with the legal system. In the cases where this does happen, it is merely a tool for someone higher up within the party to get rid of someone they dislike.

Invisigoth
11-30-2007, 06:10 AM
Never heard of any of these myths before :P

Jaeger07
11-30-2007, 06:18 AM
There are no laws in China

This is just too stupid to be a myth. So are the rest of these "myths" if you ask me...

Calanen
11-30-2007, 07:31 AM
****inson is a partner at Harris Moure PLLC, Seattle, Washington and Shanghai, China.


Lightweights. Its just a kiss ass article so they have something to show their mates in Shanghai.

The only thing that you need to know is, the legal system in China is the last resort, not the first. You have to get things done with negotiation and the backing of those with power. Charging off and saying the law is on your side, because you can bring some sort of lawsuit - is the dumbest thing to ever do.

Lokos
11-30-2007, 09:53 AM
The only thing that you need to know is, the legal system in China is the last resort, not the first. You have to get things done with negotiation

Aren't 95% of Australian disputes resolved through mediation or, at the very least, with a settlement before the issue is taken to court?

Lokos

lenovo
11-30-2007, 10:39 AM
I am very glad that China doesn't follow US or British's law systems

Freibier
11-30-2007, 10:44 AM
I am very glad that China doesn't follow US or British's law systems
Yeah, cause sino-savagery rulez so much and bribes and stuff and no human rights are awesome too, LMAO

ViktorNavorski
11-30-2007, 11:06 AM
PBS's Wide Angle - The People's Court (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/china2/index.html#videoplayer)

The Issue
Poised to surpass the United States as the largest economy in the world, yet facing mounting domestic and international pressure for a fair and transparent framework of laws, China is racing to reshape the rules of society. In the past quarter century, the country has opened nearly 400 law schools, trained hundreds of thousands of judges and lawyers, and launched education campaigns to encourage people to bring their grievances to court rather than taking to the streets. But the transformation is incomplete and the judiciary far from independent. Senior judges are appointed by, take orders from, and receive their paychecks from the one-party state. Hundreds of Chinese lawyers have been jailed in recent years while citizens are taking to the streets in record numbers to protest land seizures, corruption, pollution, or unpaid wages. And China executes more prisoners each year than the rest of the world combined.

The Film
WIDE ANGLE gained exclusive access to film in Chinese courts - a first for a Western documentary. Profiling itinerant judges, law students, a human rights lawyer, and ordinary citizens, The People's Court examines China in flux, revealing the lengths to which Chinese people must go to obtain justice and raising crucial questions about their emerging system of law.The entire documentary can be seen on the website I linked.

BugHunt
11-30-2007, 11:07 AM
Fact no 8 - Property developers and corrupt officals can conspire to take away your home and property (despite your family living there for decades to hundreds of years) - and leave you with nothing.

Resist - and find yourself on the bad end of strongmen thug tactics or in a "political" prison.



Welcome to the Olympics! :)

Ordie
11-30-2007, 12:46 PM
I am very glad that China doesn't follow US or British's law systems

Do you mean lack of due process?

Your wrong by the way.

The Republic of China's and Macau's legal system is based on Germany's.

Hong Kong's legal system is based on English Common Law.

Jaguar
11-30-2007, 02:12 PM
By 2005, the number of admitted lawyers had grown to 114,471. Though the number of lawyers is far less than the highly over-lawyered US, it compares favorably with European countries like England, Germany, Italy and Spain, where the number of lawyers ranges from 120,000 to 150,000. Japan has only about 22,000 and Korea about 12,000.

But China has a 1,3 billion population, which gives one lawyer for 11.5k people. Japan has one for 5.8k and I can bet its legal system is more efficient than China´s.

2Sheds_Jackson
11-30-2007, 02:34 PM
I would like to debunk the myth that the American legal system casts women into a pond to see whether or not they will float. That is just so not true. Who could think that about our modern, forward-thinking society? We now weigh them, and see if they're heavier than a duck.

Calanen
11-30-2007, 05:38 PM
Aren't 95% of Australian disputes resolved through mediation or, at the very least, with a settlement before the issue is taken to court?

Lokos

Taken out of context, and your stripped the end bit of my quote. Negotiation with the party cadre, not the parties to the dispute.

I can't think of a name
11-30-2007, 06:28 PM
When people say there are no laws in China they mean that since the PRC has absolute power the regional officials can do what they want are lock anyone up for any reason. The ordinary citizen cannot use the law to protect himself from people in power.

The PRC rules not the Law.

Lokos
12-01-2007, 08:17 AM
Taken out of context, and your stripped the end bit of my quote

Whilst I now understand the meaning you intended to convey, the sentence you constructed was, at best, linguistically poor. 'You have to get things done with negotiation and the backing of those in power' should be more like 'You have to get things done by negotiating with those in power and having their backing'. In the former there is a serious disconnect between the negotiation and to whom it pertains.

There's no further issue with what you said, as far as I'm concerned. I did not interpret your statement correctly.

Lokos

BugHunt
12-01-2007, 10:34 AM
Aren't 95% of Australian disputes resolved through mediation or, at the very least, with a settlement before the issue is taken to court?

Lokos

95% of australian disputes are resolved in the street by drunken brawling! p-)

Zerazax
12-02-2007, 04:23 AM
They've got a long way to go before any solid legal system is in place. It's kind of hard to build a judicial system when there has never been a legitimate one in China for their entire culture. China has always played the "strong man" version of government - be it the Dynasties, the Nationalists, or the Communists - the top male is always the undisputed ruler.

Heh, I still enjoy watching videos of politicians in Taiwan beating each other up during legislation. Now imagine if Congress still had that ;) Would be hilarious