Best Democratic Countries and Worst

[SOG]

this is a PDF compiled from the "Economist Intelligence Unit" from Sweden. it is the democracy index for 2006.

PDF here:
http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/DEMOCRACY_TABLE_2007_v3.pdf

they rank:
I Electoral process and pluralism
II Functioning of government
III Political participation
IV Political culture
V Civil liberties

they rank themselves as #1 with a perfect ten in four categories.
the first number is the rank of the country ie 1, 2, 3, 4, and on.



Full Democracies
Sweden 1 9.88 10.00 10.00 10.00 9.38 10.00
Iceland 2 9.71 10.00 9.64 8.89 10.00 10.00
Netherlands 3 9.66 9.58 9.29 9.44 10.00 10.00
Norway 4 9.55 10.00 9.64 10.00 8.13 10.00
Denmark 5 9.52 10.00 9.64 8.89 9.38 9.71
Finland 6 9.25 10.00 10.00 7.78 8.75 9.71
Luxembourg 7 9.10 10.00 9.29 7.78 8.75 9.71
Australia 8 9.09 10.00 8.93 7.78 8.75 10.00
Canada 9 9.07 9.17 9.64 7.78 8.75 10.00
Switzerland 10 9.02 9.58 9.29 7.78 8.75 9.71
Ireland 11= 9.01 9.58 8.93 7.78 8.75 10.00
New Zealand 11= 9.01 10.00 8.57 8.33 8.13 10.00
Germany 13 8.82 9.58 8.57 7.78 8.75 9.41
Austria 14 8.69 9.58 8.21 7.78 8.75 9.12
Malta 15 8.39 9.17 8.21 6.11 8.75 9.71
Spain 16 8.34 9.58 7.86 6.11 8.75 9.41
US 17 8.22 8.75 7.86 7.22 8.75 8.53
Czech Republic 18 8.17 9.58 6.79 7.22 8.13 9.12
Portugal 19 8.16 9.58 8.21 6.11 7.50 9.41
Belgium 20= 8.15 9.58 8.21 6.67 6.88 9.41
Japan 20= 8.15 9.17 7.86 5.56 8.75 9.41
Greece 22 8.13 9.58 7.50 6.67 7.50 9.41
UK 23 8.08 9.58 8.57 5.00 8.13 9.12
France 24 8.07 9.58 7.50 6.67 7.50 9.12
Mauritius 25= 8.04 9.17 8.21 5.00 8.13 9.71
Costa Rica 25= 8.04 9.58 8.21 6.11 6.88 9.41
Slovenia 27= 7.96 9.58 7.86 6.67 6.88 8.82
Uruguay 27=7.96 10.00 8.21 5.00 6.88 9.71


Flawed democracies
South Africa 29 7.91 8.75 7.86 7.22 6.88 8.82
Chile 30 7.89 9.58 8.93 5.00 6.25 9.71
South Korea 31 7.88 9.58 7.14 7.22 7.50 7.94
Taiwan 32 7.82 9.58 7.50 6.67 5.63 9.71
Estonia 33 7.74 9.58 7.50 5.00 7.50 9.12
Italy 34 7.73 9.17 6.43 6.11 8.13 8.82
India 35 7.68 9.58 8.21 5.56 5.63 9.41
Botswana 36= 7.60 9.17 7.86 5.00 6.88 9.12
Cyprus 36= 7.60 9.17 6.79 6.67 6.25 9.12
Hungary 38 7.53 9.58 6.79 5.00 6.88 9.41
Cape Verde 39= 7.43 9.17 7.86 5.00 6.88 8.24
Lithuania 39= 7.43 9.58 6.43 6.67 5.63 8.82
Slovakia 41 7.40 9.58 7.50 6.11 5.00 8.82
Brazil 42 7.38 9.58 7.86 4.44 5.63 9.41
Latvia 43 7.37 9.58 6.43 6.11 5.63 9.12
Panama 44 7.35 9.58 7.14 5.56 5.63 8.82
Jamaica 45 7.34 9.17 7.14 5.00 6.25 9.12
Poland 46 7.30 9.58 6.07 6.11 5.63 9.12
Israel 47 7.28 9.17 6.64 7.78 7.50 5.29
Trinidad and Tobago 48 7.18 9.17 6.79 6.11 5.63 8.24
Bulgaria 49 7.10 9.58 5.71 6.67 5.00 8.53
Romania 50 7.06 9.58 6.07 6.11 5.00 8.53
Croatia 51 7.04 9.17 6.07 6.11 5.63 8.24
Ukraine 52 6.94 9.58 5.71 5.56 5.63 8.24
Mexico 53 6.67 8.75 6.07 5.00 5.00 8.53
Argentina 54 6.63 8.75 5.00 5.56 5.63 8.24
Serbia 55 6.62 9.17 5.36 5.00 5.63 7.94
Mongolia 56 6.60 9.17 6.07 3.89 5.63 8.24
Sri Lanka 57 6.58 6.92 5.00 5.56 7.50 7.94
Montenegro 58 6.57 9.17 5.71 5.00 5.63 7.35
Namibia 59= 6.54 4.75 4.00 6.67 8.75 8.53
Papua New Guinea 59= 6.54 7.33 6.43 4.44 6.25 8.24
Suriname 61 6.52 9.17 6.07 4.44 5.00 7.94
Moldova 62 6.50 9.17 4.29 6.11 5.00 7.94
Lesotho 63= 6.48 7.92 6.43 4.44 6.25 7.35
Philippines 63= 6.48 9.17 5.36 5.00 3.75 9.12
Indonesia 65= 6.41 6.92 7.14 5.00 6.25 6.76
Timor Leste 65= 6.41 7.00 5.57 5.00 6.25 8.24
Colombia 67 6.40 9.17 4.36 5.00 4.38 9.12
Macedonia 68 6.33 8.25 4.50 7.22 3.75 7.94
Honduras 69 6.25 8.33 6.43 4.44 5.00 7.06
El Salvador 70 6.22 9.17 5.43 3.89 4.38 8.24
Paraguay 71= 6.16 7.92 5.00 5.00 4.38 8.53
Benin 71= 6.16 6.83 6.43 3.89 6.88 6.76
Guyana 73 6.15 8.33 5.36 4.44 4.38 8.24
Dom Rep 74 6.13 9.17 4.29 3.33 5.63 8.24
Bangladesh 75= 6.11 7.42 5.07 4.44 6.25 7.35
Peru 75= 6.11 8.75 3.29 5.56 5.00 7.94
Guatemala 77 6.07 8.75 6.79 2.78 4.38 7.65
Hong Kong 78 6.03 3.50 5.71 5.00 6.25 9.71
Palestine 79 6.01 8.25 2.71 7.78 6.88 4.41
Mali 80 5.99 8.25 5.71 3.89 5.63 6.47
Malaysia 81= 5.98 6.08 5.71 4.44 7.50 6.18
Bolivia 81= 5.98 8.33 5.71 4.44 3.75 7.65

Hybrid regimes
Albania 83 5.91 7.33 5.07 4.44 5.63 7.06
Singapore 84 5.89 4.33 7.50 2.78 7.50 7.35
Madagascar 85= 5.82 5.67 5.71 5.56 6.88 5.29
Lebanon 85= 5.82 7.92 2.36 6.11 6.25 6.47
Bosnia and Hercegovina 87 5.78 8.25 3.29 4.44 5.00 7.94
Turkey 88 5.70 7.92 6.79 4.44 3.75 5.59
Nicaragua 89 5.68 8.25 5.71 3.33 3.75 7.35
Thailand 90 5.67 4.83 6.43 5.00 5.63 6.47
Fiji 91 5.66 6.50 5.21 3.33 5.00 8.24
Ecuador 92 5.64 7.83 4.29 5.00 3.13 7.94
Venezuela 93 5.42 7.00 3.64 5.56 5.00 5.88
Senegal 94 5.37 7.00 5.00 3.33 5.63 5.88
Ghana 95 5.35 7.42 4.64 4.44 4.38 5.88
Mozambique 96 5.28 5.25 5.71 4.44 6.88 4.12
Zambia 97 5.25 5.25 4.64 3.33 6.25 6.76
Liberia 98 5.22 7.75 2.14 5.00 5.63 5.59
Tanzania 99 5.18 6.00 3.93 5.06 5.63 5.29
Uganda 100 5.14 4.33 3.93 4.44 6.25 6.76
Kenya 101 5.08 4.33 4.29 5.56 6.25 5.00
Russia 102 5.02 7.00 3.21 5.56 3.75 5.59
Malawi 103 4.97 6.00 5.00 3.89 4.38 5.59
Georgia 104 4.90 7.92 1.79 3.33 5.00 6.47
Cambodia 105 4.77 5.58 6.07 2.78 5.00 4.41
Ethiopia 106 4.72 4.00 3.93 5.00 6.25 4.41
Burundi 107 4.51 4.42 3.29 3.89 6.25 4.71
Gambia 108 4.39 4.00 4.64 4.44 5.63 3.24
Haiti 109 4.19 5.58 3.64 2.78 2.50 6.47
Armenia 110 4.15 4.33 3.21 3.89 3.13 6.18
Kyrgyzstan 111 4.08 5.75 1.86 2.78 5.00 5.00
Iraq 112 4.01 4.75 0.00 5.56 5.63 4.12

Authoritarian regimes
Pakistan 113= 3.92 4.33 5.36 0.56 4.38 5.00
Jordan 113= 3.92 3.08 3.79 3.89 5.00 3.82
Comoros 115= 3.90 3.00 3.21 4.44 5.63 3.24
Morocco 115= 3.90 3.50 3.79 2.78 5.63 3.82
Egypt 115= 3.90 2.67 3.64 2.78 6.88 3.53
Rwanda 118 3.82 3.00 3.57 2.22 5.00 5.29
Burkina Faso 119 3.72 4.00 1.79 2.78 5.63 4.41
Kazakhstan 120 3.62 2.67 2.14 3.33 4.38 5.59
Sierra Leone 121 3.57 5.25 2.21 2.22 3.75 4.41
Niger 122 3.54 5.25 1.14 1.67 3.75 5.88
Bahrain 123 3.53 3.50 2.57 2.78 5.00 3.82
Cuba 124= 3.52 1.75 4.64 3.89 4.38 2.94
Nigeria 124= 3.52 3.08 1.86 4.44 4.38 3.82
Nepal 126 3.42 0.08 3.57 2.22 5.63 5.59
Côte d’Ivoire 127 3.38 1.25 2.86 3.33 5.63 3.82
Belarus 128 3.34 2.58 2.86 3.33 4.38 3.53
Azerbaijan 129 3.31 3.08 0.79 3.33 3.75 5.59
Cameroon 130 3.27 0.92 3.21 2.78 5.63 3.82
Congo Brazzaville 131 3.19 1.42 2.86 2.22 5.63 3.82
Algeria 132 3.17 2.25 2.21 2.22 5.63 3.53
Mauritania 133 3.12 1.83 4.29 2.22 3.13 4.12
Kuwait 134 3.09 1.33 4.14 1.11 5.63 3.24
Afghanistan 135= 3.06 6.17 0.00 2.22 2.50 4.41
Tunisia 135= 3.06 0.00 2.36 2.22 6.88 3.82
Yemen 137 2.98 2.67 2.71 2.78 4.38 2.35
China 138 2.97 0.00 4.64 2.78 6.25 1.18
Swaziland 139= 2.93 1.75 2.86 2.22 3.13 4.71
Iran 139= 2.93 0.08 3.57 3.89 5.63 1.47
Sudan 141 2.90 2.25 2.36 1.67 5.00 3.24
Qatar 142 2.78 0.00 3.43 1.67 5.00 3.82
Oman 143 2.77 0.00 3.07 1.67 5.00 4.12
Democratic Republic of Congo 144 2.76 4.58 0.36 2.78 3.75 2.35
Vietnam 145 2.75 0.83 4.29 2.78 4.38 1.47
Gabon 146 2.72 0.50 3.21 2.22 5.63 2.06
Bhutan 147= 2.62 0.08 4.64 1.11 3.75 3.53
Zimbabwe 147= 2.62 0.17 0.79 3.89 5.63 2.65
Tajikistan 149 2.45 1.83 0.79 2.22 6.25 1.18
UAE 150 2.42 0.00 3.07 1.11 5.00 2.94
Angola 151 2.41 0.50 2.14 1.11 5.63 2.65
Djibouti 152 2.37 2.50 1.43 0.56 5.00 2.35
Syria 153 2.36 0.00 1.79 1.67 6.88 1.47
Eritrea 154 2.31 0.00 2.14 1.11 6.25 2.06
Laos 155 2.10 0.00 3.21 1.11 5.00 1.18
Equatorial Guinea 156 2.09 0.00 2.86 1.11 5.00 1.47
Guinea 157 2.02 1.00 0.79 2.22 3.75 2.35
Guinea-Bissau 158 2.00 2.08 0.07 3.33 1.88 2.65
Saudi Arabia 159 1.92 0.00 2.36 1.11 4.38 1.76
Uzbekistan 160 1.85 0.08 0.79 2.78 5.00 0.59
Libya 161 1.84 0.00 1.64 1.11 5.00 1.47
Turkmenistan 162 1.83 0.00 0.79 2.78 5.00 0.59
Myanmar 163 1.77 0.00 1.79 0.56 5.63 0.88
Togo 164 1.75 0.00 0.79 0.56 5.63 1.76
Chad 165 1.65 0.00 0.00 0.00 5.00 3.24
Central Africa 166 1.61 0.42 1.43 1.67 1.88 2.65
North Korea 167 1.03 0.83 2.50 0.56 1.25 0.00


north korea takes the prize coming in dead last at 167th place! congrats!

weird list and all from a "perfect" democracy viewpoint. so of course some countries fail heavily in an ideological sense if you are comparing apples to oranges.

Ireland is listed as its own country? i thought it was part of the UK?

edit, i guess the Republic of Ireland is its own country.

[Mackey]

Italy is a flawed democracy!! rofl

[Pars]

Sweden FTW woot

[KninGrad]

Wow u put Russia and Iraq in same basket LOLLLL

Serbia and Croatia in 2nd pot hahahah I am from Serbia but LOLLL

[Mr.K]

What else can you expect from The Economist.

[Herrmannek]

My BS meter went out of scale...If Sweden is best democracy on the Planer with most freedoms all around I'm Mother Theresa...

[Litti]

If Sweden is best democracy on the Planer with most freedoms all around I'm Mother Theresa...Care to explain your stand?

The political activity in grassroot level is excellent and there is great transparency in the government. Freedom of press is statistically second only to Finland. There is no data to deny this.

Sweden belongs up there altough I would probably put Netherlands into number 1. Finland could be up there with them if young people were a bit more active like they were in the 70's and 80's.

[afreu]

What else can you expect from The Economist.

I agree, what else than this fine piece of journalism. Excellent work!

[Snoshi]

So Palestine almost have as much civil liberties as Israel?

[little icebear]

So Palestine almost have as much civil liberties as Israel?

Maybe they include the right of getting involved in terrorist-activities as part of civil liberty. p-)

[Doublethinker]

I salute Papua New Guinea for its tremendous success in building a democratic state.

[Herrmannek]

Care to explain your stand?

The political activity in grassroot level is excellent and there is great transparency in the government. Freedom of press is statistically second only to Finland. There is no data to deny this.

Sweden belongs up there altough I would probably put Netherlands into number 1. Finland could be up there with them if young people were a bit more active like they were in the 70's and 80's.

If you can be dragged by the state in front of the courts and then sentenced for jail because you said "gay *** is sin" then its not a democracy even by far fetch...

[johanness]

From place 1 to place 14 all countries are speaking a germanic languge....
seems like who make the rules --> win

anyway, I would like to live in any of this countries without a problem

[Pars]

From place 1 to place 14 all countries are speaking a germanic languge....
seems like who make the rules --> win

anyway, I would like to live in any of this countries without a problem

GERMANIA STRONG!!!1!11 p-)

[Basillicus]

From place 1 to place 14 all countries are speaking a germanic languge....
seems like who make the rules --> win

anyway, I would like to live in any of this countries without a problem

Finnish is not a Germanic language. :slap: p-)

[Doublethinker]

I just want to know one thing:

How does South Africa get the absolutely wonderful 7.91 for its electoral process. Not 7.92 or 7.90. And how is Italy something like 20 points behind, not 30 or 10? And what has to happen for South Africa to win a point or loose one? And what do they actually compare it to? Do they compare each of the countries with all other countries? And how can one even hit 10 points - 10 out of what? What is 'perfectly free elections'? What is 'perfectly functioning government'?



All of it even in theory sounds like utter crap. Left alone this irky implementation.

[Doublethinker]

I especially like these multiple numbers after dots in such tables, like 8.89 or 9.96 or. 9.9467. As if some very serious mathematics is behind all of this and it is so complex, that we shouldn't even try to understand the details or even methodology used.

[little icebear]

Finnish is not a Germanic language. :slap: p-)

Hey, nobody is perfect. p-) We like you anyway. :)

[johanness]

Finnish is not a Germanic language. :slap: p-)

Sorry, my mistake. Finish-Hungarian is a asiatic language.

I hope you can forgive me.

[Thor]

I Electoral process and pluralism
II Functioning of government
III Political participation
IV Political culture
V Civil liberties

Well, I've said it before about my country Sweden that it's one of the worst pseudo-democracies around. How anyone could rank us as number one in the world based on those criterias is really impossible to understand.

We have very limited civil liberties. E.g. we didn't even have freedom of speech until 1973 and the form we have can be limited by the government with the stroke of a pen, a prerogative which have been carried out regularly and there isn't even a constitutional court to balance it! Further we an extremely poor political culture, anything that deviates even the slightest from social democratic norm is grounds for official blacklisting, add to that a corrupt voting system etc.

There are really too many things to list them. I could probably write a book about this with a comparative analysis (and maybe I should).

On the opposite side of the scale is US. Not perfect, but with true civil liberties, balancing powers, and grassroot level democracy with primary elections, and elections of anything from district attorney (prosecutor), to sheriff, judge, state legislature, governor, president etc. Probably one of the few countries, if not the only country, that should be refered to as being close to a true democracy.

[Hecatonchiros]

Finish-Hungarian

Ain't no such language in the world.

[Litti]

Finish-Hungarian is a asiatic language.Finno-Ugric is the term.


Well, I've said it before about my country Sweden that it's one of the <insert average moaning from a conservative>.People don't give a damn about "nationalism donuts" with "christianity toppings" in Scandinavia these days. Get used to it Thor. p-)

The U.S. has a democratic system of government but they are not actually a democracy per se. A democracy has proportional representation like in Finland or Sweden. They are a two-party system and use an electoral college.

[Shellshock1918]

From place 1 to place 14 all countries are speaking a germanic languge....
seems like who make the rules --> win

anyway, I would like to live in any of this countries without a problem
New Zealand is a germanic speaking country???

[johanness]

New Zealand is a germanic speaking country???

English? Or what language you are talking?

[Thor]

People don't give a damn about "nationalism donuts" with "christianity toppings" in Scandinavia these days. Get used to it Thor. p-)
I'm first and foremost a libertarian.

And I can reveal to you that I'm a long-time supporting member of the socialdemocratic party. It's just like in the old eastern block, you have to be a member of "the party" to get where you like. I hate their guts, but it's a necessity to caress those in power.


The U.S. has a democratic system of government but they are not actually a democracy per se. A democracy has proportional representation like in Finland or Sweden. They a two-party system and use an electoral college.
The U.S. is a federation. It's like saying that E.U. should have a voting system in which Germany, France and the other states with great populations should get all the votes. A voter in Luxemburg gets a disproportional amount of "power" but I can't really say that I feel disenfranchised. What does make me and everyone else disenfranchised are the true aspects of democracy that are lacking here.

[Buckeye67]

The U.S. has a democratic system of government but they are not actually a democracy per se. A democracy has proportional representation like in Finland or Sweden. They are a two-party system and use an electoral college.

Name a modern nation that is a true "democracy". I don't think there has been one since ancient Athens.

Remember, "democracy" = all issues presented to the people and all of the people vote. Then 50% +1 of the vote wins. There are no protections for minorities or minority opinion in a pure democracy. 50% +1 rules all.

"Democracy" as a form of government ain't "all that and a bag of chips", as they say.

Most western nations are representative democracies, similar to the US - which, by the way, does have "proportional representation", in the House of Representatives. There are also more than two parties in the US (yes, the Democratic and Republican parties are by and large the most popular).

The electoral college, by the way, is also part of a system guaranteeing "proportional representation" in our elections for President. Were it not for the electoral college, no candidate would ever campaign in a low-population state. Presedents would be elected solely by large population centers.

Screw that.

[afreu]

BTW as far as I know and according to the official website the EIU's main office is in London. I don't think they don't even have an office in Sweden.

To get some background on the EIU look here:
http://www.eiu.com/site_info.asp?info_name=aboutUs_peopleResources&entry1=about_eiuNav&page=noads

For those interested here's the whole study, not just the numbers but the explanations of why and how. Actually it would make no sense at all to just look at the numbers alone.

http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/DEMOCRACY_INDEX_2007_v3.pdf

[I can't think of a name]

The U.S. has a democratic system of government but they are not actually a democracy per se. A democracy has proportional representation like in Finland or Sweden. They are a two-party system and use an electoral college.

The two-party system is not mandated in anyway, it just happens to work that way. There is nothing prohibiting other parties from forming and occupying many seats in the Congress.

edit, buckeye beat me too it.

edit 2: The socialist Scandinavian states are regarded as the sage nations in the press and in academia. This seems to prohibit a realistic analysis of their system. Also those places are th pantheon of PC culture, say something wrong and you are shunned. The US has a much more diverse political culture and various places were you can live with different thinking people.

[DaveDash]

How on earth Australia is higher than NZ on that list baffles me.

[Buckeye67]

How on earth Australia is higher than NZ on that list baffles me.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3530/330wo1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

That's why.

[DaveDash]

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3530/330wo1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

That's why.

LOL of course! ;)

Seriously though, don't get me wrong, I like Australia since I live here. But I sure as **** don't live here for its 'democratic freedoms'- when it comes to all the bull**** crap that survey is measuring NZ ahead Australia in many ways. Which, given your milage, may be a good or bad thing.

One example is Australia you are -FORCED- to turn up to voting booths whether they want to vote or not. While this has the effect of making most people vote, people do not vote wisely and are doing it just because. How ****ing democratic is that?
In NZ it is illegal not to enrole, but the enrolement forms are sent to your house and you send them back free of charge. You are not 'forced' to spend your saturday going anywhere and doing something you probably don't really understand anyway.

This is just one example but there are numerous other, so I approach this list with extreme skeptism.

[Buckeye67]

This is just one example but there are numerous other, so I approach this list with extreme skeptism.

Well, all lists like this should be viewed with extreme skepticism. I'm sure a similar list produced by *insert conservative US news agency* would have different results than *insert North Korean news agency*. This was created by a swedish group and wonder of wonders, Sweden tops the list.

It's all hogwash.

I'm glad I was born and raised where I was, and am glad to live here. I know that somewhere out there, there could be better places to live. I know that out there there are worse places to live. I don't need a magazine or newspaper or thinktank or some bogan in a bar to tell me that. :p

[Ordie]

Looking at the list.

The countries have topless/**** public beaches have the best democracies.

[Erki]

If you can be dragged by the state in front of the courts and then sentenced for jail because you said "gay *** is sin" then its not a democracy even by far fetch...

If you are referring to Åke Green you should keep in mind that he was actually acquitted by the Supreme Court. Besides, whats wrong with a law prohibiting persecution of minority groups, verbal or physical alike?

[Fenix]

[QUOTE=SOG;2908623]this is a PDF compiled from the "Economist Intelligence Unit" from Sweden. it is the democracy index for 2006.

Sounds like a whole lot of socialist boondoggle made to glorify sos dems and their pals world wide.

Too ****ing bad that in Finland we manufacture crapload of these biased "studies" too.

I think I am going to go now to the bathroom and make one of these "studies" on a toiletpaper.

[Sloppy Joe2]

112! Iraq is going places, i'm telling you :)

[Hollis]

Looking at the list.

The countries have topless/**** public beaches have the best democracies.


I would hope so. Maybe who ever set up the study loved going to the beaches to work. I would like a job like that myself.

I think the only people who like these studies are those whose nations are at the top of the list and the ones they don't like are at the bottom.

[Morboute]

i agree that we have it rather good compared to others here in Sweden, but i still think that this list is just plain retarded.

[Thor]

Looking at the list.

The countries have topless/**** public beaches have the best democracies.
You need to gain some experience in that field bud, it's down in the Med you will find that. p-) For some reason the topless culture never became big up here.

[orange]

You need to gain some experience in that field bud, it's down in the Med you will find that. p-) For some reason the topless culture never became big up here.
That's 'coz we don't have a summer... Not the so called "summer" a couple of months back anyway! F'ing sucked! :-(

[little icebear]

Doesn´t matter... from personal experience, I know that Swedish girls are not shy and... let´s say... openminded. p-)

[Thor]

You have seen too many 60's "dirty" movies... p-)

Speaking from experience I must actually hand out some credit. Unlike US and European girls ours are actually a bit picky and not so found of ONS. Becoming cuddly friends is the secret of getting anywhere here.

[Urquell]

And I can reveal to you that I'm a long-time supporting member of the socialdemocratic party. It's just like in the old eastern block, you have to be a member of "the party" to get where you like. I hate their guts, but it's a necessity to caress those in power.

So you pretend to be a social democrat flashing that Mao's Little red book of yours, to get into councils and to get benefits? I'd say that the days when you had to be 'sosse' to get anywhere in Sweden are over. Sure, the majority of people in every imaginable type of council or board in Sweden are still social democrats, but then again they are of the 1940s generation and will retire (and hopefully die) soon.

The spirit of 1968 is dying fast now when the individualist 1980s generation is taking more and more leadership positions, and when the totally narcisstic 1990s generation kids will be old enough you will be branded as a total clown and a fossil of the past being a social democrat. Although I think there will be backlash in Sweden with the social democrats getting to power again in the next election, people are getting less red and socialist in Sweden. That's why I myself pretend to be blue, despite considering the party to be traitors. But as with you, sometimes it helps flashing the membership card p-)

A true democracy.


Speaking from experience I must actually hand out some credit. Unlike US and European girls ours are actually a bit picky and not so found of ONS. Becoming cuddly friends is the secret of getting anywhere here.

Sure, if you aim for the classy babes. White trash culture is widespread in Sweden as well, and they sure as hell are not picky. Kos, Aiya Napa, Sunny Beach, Ibiza...

[Thor]

So you pretend to be a social democrat flashing that Mao's Little red book of yours, to get into councils and to get benefits? I'd say that the days when you had to be 'sosse' to get anywhere in Sweden are over.
You don't understand how things work. I don't want to be too specific, but I can tell you that I'm not doing it to acquire a position of power as a social democrat (although many do just that).


Although I think there will be backlash in Sweden with the social democrats getting to power again in the next election, people are getting less red and socialist in Sweden.
The difference between the red and the blue block in the polls is in fact greater than it has ever been before. All while the greens, a leftist fraction, is growing stronger in the younger generation. So there will be no major shift for the next 20 years.



Sure, if you aim for the classy babes. White trash culture is widespread in Sweden as well, and they sure as hell are not picky.
Sure, but I think what you call classy is what I call normal. I've always managed to avoid the bottom of the barrel.


Kos, Aiya Napa, Sunny Beach, Ibiza...
The first choice for higher learning... The best thing to do is to already at home, or at least at the airport, find a group of hot girls who are going there and then get acquinted. I could share some stories but this has already deviated too far from the subject.


Let's focus on need for a constitutional court and similar democratic reforms instead.

[I can't think of a name]

If you are referring to Åke Green you should keep in mind that he was actually acquitted by the Supreme Court. Besides, whats wrong with a law prohibiting persecution of minority groups, verbal or physical alike?

Prohibiting anything verbal is criminalizing though and thus not free speech. Plus anyone can willy nilly decide what is prohibited and what is not.

[Urquell]

You don't understand how things work. I don't want to be too specific, but I can tell you that I'm not doing it to acquire a position of power as a social democrat (although many do just that).

Funny reply, as if assuming that you are the only one knowing how things work. Then tell us what benefits you gain from pretending to be a social democrat.

Personally I can say that pretending to be blue have given me some opportunities that looks good in the CV, like being a lay judge, being a chairman in a board and so forth. Most importantly I get to know people, despite that their party membership might be different, they are still great for career networking.


The first choice for higher learning... The best thing to do is to already at home, or at least at the airport, find a group of hot girls who are going there and then get acquinted.

I for my life can not understand why you would even want to learn to know someone you only want to screw. A vacation (especially in a place like that) is for relaxing, and to have fun, not to get acquinted to some boring uptight upper class girls. But sure: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" - Karl Marx p-)

A bit off-topic yes.

[afreu]

Well, all lists like this should be viewed with extreme skepticism. I'm sure a similar list produced by *insert conservative US news agency* would have different results than *insert North Korean news agency*. This was created by a swedish group and wonder of wonders, Sweden tops the list.

It's all hogwash.

I'm glad I was born and raised where I was, and am glad to live here. I know that somewhere out there, there could be better places to live. I know that out there there are worse places to live. I don't need a magazine or newspaper or thinktank or some bogan in a bar to tell me that. :p

THIS LIST WASNT PRODUCED BY A SWEDISH GROUP

The EIU's main office is in Great Britain, as far as I know the EIU does't have an office in Sweden.

http://www.eiu.com/site_info.asp?info_name=aboutUs_peopleResources&entry1=about_eiuNav&page=noads

Besides that the EIU is an established research company with 51 years of experience. Not some dodgy think tank with a political agenda. The EIU has more than 300 full time analysts and a couple more hundred contributors and has a good reputation.

So since this was, as anyone who can read could easily notice, NOT a Swedish group, Sweden being number one is not proof of some kind of bias.

If you're wondering about how the EIU came to the numbers I suggest to read the full report which I linked in a previous post.

[Buckeye67]

Tell that to the OP, Gertrude:


this is a PDF compiled from the "Economist Intelligence Unit" from Sweden.

[DaveDash]

Well, all lists like this should be viewed with extreme skepticism. I'm sure a similar list produced by *insert conservative US news agency* would have different results than *insert North Korean news agency*. This was created by a swedish group and wonder of wonders, Sweden tops the list.

It's all hogwash.

I'm glad I was born and raised where I was, and am glad to live here. I know that somewhere out there, there could be better places to live. I know that out there there are worse places to live. I don't need a magazine or newspaper or thinktank or some bogan in a bar to tell me that. :p

Hey mate, I'm not saying the more 'democratic' your country is the better place it is to live. I live in Australia, which I consider to be a better place to live than New Zealand, despite having less civil liberties and I guess in my opinion being less 'Democratic'.

Take the U.S. for example. It may not be the most 'democratic' country (according to this survey) but it IS a country with a political system that allows Sh1t To Get Done(TM).
Many European countries and NZ included are stalled by minority parties having far too much power and influence over and beyond their % of the vote, and governments just cant get anything done because of all this alliance bull**** they have to do. There is a reason Australia has launched far ahead of NZ proportionally over the last 10 years on the global scale.
**** mate, if it wasn't for LOTR we wouldnt be on the map, and Australia definately is.
More 'democratic' is definately not better.

[Buckeye67]

I hear what you're saying. I didn't mean my post to seem like it was picking on yours or anything. I was just saying that all these lists of "best XXXX" are little more than academic ***** waving contests and shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone. :)

[afreu]

I hear what you're saying. I didn't mean my post to seem like it was picking on yours or anything. I was just saying that all these lists of "best XXXX" are little more than academic ***** waving contests and shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone. :)

Lists like that as part of the whole program of the EIU to study different countries in depth are a valuable piece of information for a lot of businesses and not just of pure academic nature.

Actually doing it only to keep some academics happy would be a giant waste of money and talent.

[Buckeye67]

That's one opinion. Mine's different. I suppose you're just going to have to deal with it.

[DaveDash]

Lists like that as part of the whole program of the EIU to study different countries in depth are a valuable piece of information for a lot of businesses and not just of pure academic nature.

Actually doing it only to keep some academics happy would be a giant waste of money and talent.

And there is a lot of giant wastes of money 'and' talent in this world.

If I were a business developer, the best XYZ, especially when it comes to highly unquantifyable things such as 'democracy', I'd be very hesitant to trust such things. There may be some interesting insight in there however, but all in all I doubt the list is even close to be correct to begin with.

Businesses are out to make profit. That list has little in the way of helping you make profit. What do you judge your investments on? China for example isn't a very 'democratic' country but that has diddly god damn squat to do with how to make money there.

Again, I tend to agree more with Buckeye on this, and I am even more skeptical that academics spending time composing such unquantifable research are in touch with reality anyway.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

I salute Papua New Guinea for its tremendous success in building a democratic state.

Hehe. To be fair though if it wasn't for the fact that Northern New Guinea used to be German and Australia only had a mandate that was expiring it would still be an Australian territory. The majority of the population wanted to remain tied to Australia. But no de-colonization was all the rage at the time.

Wankers at the UN I tell you.

Anyway, Australia left them with the same system we have combined with tribal elements.

[Wall]

edit 2: The socialist Scandinavian states are regarded as the sage nations in the press and in academia. This seems to prohibit a realistic analysis of their system. Also those places are th pantheon of PC culture, say something wrong and you are shunned. The US has a much more diverse political culture and various places were you can live with different thinking people.
http://www.heritage.org/index/countries.cfm
I wouldnt say that Sweden or Finland are socialist states.
(Finland 16, Sweden 21)

Well of course it depend on a point of view..

[Herrmannek]

If you are referring to Åke Green you should keep in mind that he was actually acquitted by the Supreme Court. Besides, whats wrong with a law prohibiting persecution of minority groups, verbal or physical alike?

verbal persecution? It sounds worse than Chinese water torture :)

[Steve Railsback]

Wow u put Russia and Iraq in same basket LOLLLL



no worries........next edition of this list I guess Russia will be in the Authoritarian regimes basket

[asch]

no worries........next edition of this list I guess Russia will be in the Authoritarian regimes basket
bah!
we demand our own category!
something like Ze Dark Side. or maybe The Most Horrible Eurasian Tyranny.

[Erki]

You have seen too many 60's "dirty" movies... p-)

Speaking from experience I must actually hand out some credit. Unlike US and European girls ours are actually a bit picky and not so found of ONS. Becoming cuddly friends is the secret of getting anywhere here.

Dude, dude, dude. Sweden is home to some of the biggest sluts in the world. In what other country do you usually talk to a girl for just 2 minutes before going home to her place and bonking her brains out? Belgian girls are friggin nuns in comparison. And for some reason the biggest tramps of Stockholm tend to come from Liiiidingö and Danderyyyyd so I don't think that rich people are any less trashy.

And I also have to question the reality of your statement that the right political preference is vital for your success in society. According to my experience employers etc don't care the slightest who you vote for nor should they. A constitutional court and some changes in the way Sweden is governed would be splendid though.

But it's a big country so YMMW.

[Erki]

Prohibiting anything verbal is criminalizing though and thus not free speech. Plus anyone can willy nilly decide what is prohibited and what is not.

So in the US I can basicly stand in the street and shout anything I like?

Anyone? Willy nilly? We're talking legislation here and not whether Britney Spears is fat or not.

[Buckeye67]

So in the US I can basicly stand in the street and shout anything I like?

You can't yell "BOMB!" or "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU ALL" or the like, but pretty much anything else goes.

[Thor]

Dude, dude, dude. Sweden is home to some of the biggest sluts in the world. In what other country do you usually talk to a girl for just 2 minutes before going home to her place and bonking her brains out?
Oh, Esa-Pekka. Like I said, I hardly think you have gotten any quality action here. You know that finnish guys are seen as the most uncool and are the least popular. We're not a country of chastity, but believing that there would be lines of beautiful models waiting for the average ugly joe in his fugly clothes is ridiculous.

I usually direct unhappy foreign clients to the Silja Line ferries. The trips are close to free, and hooking up with some finnish girl there is as close to fail-proof as you can get.

As perhaps displayed in this interview. p-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhhLhQdRmlo


Belgian girls are friggin nuns in comparison.
I'm sure they are to you. I'm probably going to insult half of Europe now but based on me and my colleagues experience I'd recommend finnish-baltic, british, french-belgian, polish, and eastern european in general in terms of easy ons.


And I also have to question the reality of your statement that the right political preference is vital for your success in society. According to my experience employers etc don't care the slightest who you vote for nor should they.
McDonalds aren't that picky, no. "Question the reality"? Is this the Matrix? If you don't understand the control the party has over this society (and what budgets), then I'm not going to spell out how things work here and in what general an specific situations since that would give away my own motives.


...personally I can say that pretending to be blue have given me some opportunities
Who says you can't be members of both parties? p-)

But I'm not going spend my time explaining how my country works to you finns.

[Chieftain Jake]

There is no pure democracy due to media. Media distorts the message and can bias the view of the population.

[DE_Six]

Originally Posted by Erki
So in the US I can basicly stand in the street and shout anything I like?

You can't yell "BOMB!" or "I'M GOING TO KILL YOU ALL" or the like, but pretty much anything else goes.

Can't yell "Fire!" either. I'm surprised anyone would be surprised at that.

Reminds me on an old Cold War joke:

"An american astronaut and a soviet cosmonaut meet in the space station. After exchanging niceties, they start talking politics, and soon enough, they argue over which country has more freedoms. A bit exasperated, the American pulls out the argument: "in America, I can walk up the White House gates and yell "The President of the United States of America is a c*cksucker!" He asks the Soviet if he can claim the same. The Soviet admits he never tried something like that. They go back to Earth, and a year or so later, meet again during a peace talks promotion event. The Soviet is very excited as he walks up to his american colleague and announce proudly: "I did as you did, and the USSR is at least as free as the USA!" The American is a bit perplexed, so the Soviet clarifies: "I went to the Kremlin, pulled out a bullhorn, yelled "The President of the United States of America is a c*cksucker!" and nothing happened!"

[Turkish-Power]

this can't be wright

[Hollis]

Can't yell "Fire!" either. I'm surprised anyone would be surprised at that.

Reminds me on an old Cold War joke:

"An american astronaut and a soviet cosmonaut meet in the space station. After exchanging niceties, they start talking politics, and soon enough, they argue over which country has more freedoms. A bit exasperated, the American pulls out the argument: "in America, I can walk up the White House gates and yell "The President of the United States of America is a c*cksucker!" He asks the Soviet if he can claim the same. The Soviet admits he never tried something like that. They go back to Earth, and a year or so later, meet again during a peace talks promotion event. The Soviet is very excited as he walks up to his american colleague and announce proudly: "I did as you did, and the USSR is at least as free as the USA!" The American is a bit perplexed, so the Soviet clarifies: "I went to the Kremlin, pulled out a bullhorn, yelled "The President of the United States of America is a c*cksucker!" and nothing happened!"


Well this thread has seem to have been completely derailed and gone off in all sorts of direction. Leaving it to end on a good joke, I think is a nice touch.