Historical U.S. diplomat's telex vs FYROMians

[Peris]

U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT
Foreign Relations. Vol. VIII
Washington D.C.
Circular Airgram
(868.014 / 26 Dec. 1944)

The Secretary of State to Certain Diplomatic and Consular Officers
The following is for your information and general guidance, but not for any positive action at this time.

The Department has noted with considerable apprehension increasing propaganda rumors and semi-official statements in favor of an autonomous Macedonia, emanating principally from Bulgaria, but also from Yugoslav Partisan and other sources, with the implication that Greek territory would be included in the projected state. "This Government considers talk of Macedonian "nation', Macedonian "Fatherland", or Macedonian "national consciousness" to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece".

The approved policy of this Government is to oppose any revival of the Macedonian issue as related to Greece. The Greek section of Macedonia is largely inhabited by Greeks, and the Greek people are almost unanimously opposed to the creation of a Macedonian state. Allegations of serious Greek participation in any such agitation can be assumed to be false. This Government would regard as responsible any Government or group of Governments tolerating or encouraging menacing or aggressive acts of "Macedonian forces" against Greece.
The Department would appreciate any information pertinent to this subject which may come to your attention.

STETTINIUS

http://listserv.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9710a&L=makedon&D=0&T=0&P=2074&F=P





Edward Reilly Stettinius, Jr. (October 22 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_22), 1900 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1900) – October 31 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_31), 1949 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1949)) was United States Secretary of State (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_State) under Presidents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States) Franklin D. Roosevelt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt) and Harry S. Truman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_S._Truman), serving from 1944 to 1945.

[Buckeye67]

WOW! Check out this!:

Dred Scott v. Sandford - Decided March 6, 1857:

But a time has now come when this falsehood and folly can be indulged no longer without carrying with it infinite danger--indeed, the certainty of destruction to the Union itself--in fact, the least of evils, in comparison with the practical success of the British or anti-slavery theory. The negro element has expanded into four millions--every one knows that it must remain here forever--it is rapidly increasing, and the time, therefore, is at hand when the false theories so long imposed on oar people must be exploded, and the true status of this race fixed beyond question. It therefore was no accident, still less was it by management of any kind, that this Dred Scott case was brought before the Supreme Court for a final decision, by the highest legal authority in the Republic or on the continent. The facts in the case, as stated elsewhere, were perfectly simple, and the inference from these facts unavoidable. A master had carried his "slave" (Dred Scott) into the federal Territories, and as there was no local or municipal law establishing "slavery" in these Territories, according to the rule laid down by the English chief justice, and so long and disgracefully submitted to by American courts, the "slave" was entitled to freedom! But the Supreme Court, confining itself to the actual, historical and material facts involved, reversed the foreign and monarchical rule. The progenitors of this negro (Dred Scott) were brought here "slaves;" the offspring followed the condition of the parents--there was no local law or municipal regulation altering this condition in the present instance--therefore Dred Scott remained in that condition, a so-called slave.

Could anything be clearer, more logical or truthful, than this decision? Of course, slavery or freedom has nothing to do with the matter. They are terms of comparison, having reference to conditions of our own race, and are utter perversions, misapplications, absurdities, when applied to negroes; but as we have no other terms familiar to the common mind, we must, for the present at least, continue to employ them in this connection. The court simply called on the other side to show any law, if it could, altering the status of this negro, and as that did not exist, or was not forthcoming, of course it decided theft Dred Scott's condition remained the same as his progenitors', and therefore directed him to be returned to his master. But the anti-"slavery zealots insist that the "Missouri Compromise" was such law; that Congress, having enacted a law forbidding the introduction of negro "slaves," that those carried into the Territory became ipso facto free men. This is simply absurd, so far as the status of the negro is concerned, whatever may be the political question involved. If Congress had power to exclude "slave" owners from the Territories, it no more followed that the "slave" should become a "free man" than that his skin should become white; but the court also held that as this was a federation of Singes, Congress had no power to exclude any class of citizens, and therefore that the Missouri compromise was unconstitutional.

At last, then, and in conclusion, we have reached the culminating point of the wildest, the most senseless, the most disgusting, and withal the most dangerous delusion that ever afflicted an intelligent people, or threatened to destroy the peace, order, and safety of human society.

Chief Justice Roger Brooke Taney (****ounced Tawney) (March 17, 1777 – October 12, 1864) was the twelfth United States Attorney General. He also was the fifth Chief Justice of the United States, holding that office from 1836 until his death in 1864.

Edit: Just in case it isn't obvious: What people thought was a "good idea" in times past doesn't mean people still think it's a "good idea" today. Nor does that mean that what we think is a "good idea" today, will be looked upon as a "good idea" by future generations.

[Peris]

Document No 2


The 1992 Top Management Forum Competing in Global Markets
Henry Kissinger
An Analysis of the Global Geopolitical Environment

Management Centre Europe
18-19 June 1992, Paris

2/10/92


This is an abstract of the minutes kept during the annual meeting of Management Centre Europe held in Paris on June. During the questions time at the end of Henry Kissinger's presentation one of the questions was:
"What is your opinion for the problem which Greece have to accept the name Macedonia which the Scopia Government is trying to implement?" Mr Kissiger asked the man who asked the question:
"Are you Greek ?" Reply "Yes"
"Look, I believe that Greece is right to object and I agree with Athens. The reason is that I know History which is not the case with most of the others including most of the Government and Administration in Washington. The strength of the Greek case is that of the History which I must say that Athens have not used so far with success."
Other questions followed.

[Peris]

Edit: Just in case it isn't obvious: What people thought was a "good idea" in times past doesn't mean people still think it's a "good idea" today. Nor does that mean that what we think is a "good idea" today, will be looked upon as a "good idea" by future generations.




OK but you can't deny the existence of a ''Macedonian'' nation in Skopje in 1944 and admitt it exists in 2007. You notice that the US diplomat warns about the main issue, the territorial claims as is today.

Unfortunately for our region i get the feeling that the Greek govt starts to examine some options partially used in 1992-3 and not put to action.

[Buckeye67]

Edit: Just in case it isn't obvious: What people thought was a "good idea" in times past doesn't mean people still think it's a "good idea" today. Nor does that mean that what we think is a "good idea" today, will be looked upon as a "good idea" by future generations.

I think that pretty much says everything there is to say about this, and many other things involving politics, religion, cooking, relationships and television sitcoms.

[Peris]

I think that pretty much says everything there is to say about this, and many other things involving politics, religion, cooking, relationships and television sitcoms.

there is a difference. Changing your views about all the other staff can't cause a war in the Balcans.:)

[Buckeye67]

there is a difference. Changing your views about all the other staff can't cause a war in the Balcans.:)

Says you...

[TheKiwi]

there is a difference. Changing your views about all the other staff can't cause a war in the Balcans.:)

I didn't think you needed an excuse for a war in the Balkans. It all started with "What they said to our Sharon at her wedding" and went downhill from there.

[Ordie]

Mustafa Kemal "Ataurk" was born Salonika (Greek Macedonia) and educated in Bitola (The "other" Macedonia), therefore he must had been Macedonian.

[themacedonian]

In 1944 when there was already friction between the Greek Communists supported by Moscow and the Greek Monarchist USA saw Greece as a front against communism. The result of this was the Truman Doctrine in 1947.

The statement of the US diplomat in 1944 should be seen in that context. While that was in 1944 this was happening in Greece 20 years before:

KKE'S policy on the secession of northern Greece

At its third party congress in 1924, the KKE announced its policy to promote the creation of two new independent secessionist states in the northern Greek regions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_Greece) of Macedonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_%28Greece%29) and Thrace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Thrace). This policy was reiterated several times throughout the pre-war era.[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Greece#_note-1)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Greece#_note-2) In 1934, the KKE expressed its intent to "fight for the national self-determination, and ultimately secession, of the repressed Macedonians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_%28region%29) and Thracians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrace), and to collaborate for this goal with the Bulgarian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarians) organizations of the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Macedonian_Revolutionary_Organization_%28United%29) and the Thracian Revolutionary Organisation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Thracian_Revolutionary_Organisation)".[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Greece#_note-3)
KKE's policy, which would have entailed the detachment of large areas of northern Greece, was dictated by Comintern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comintern) and hurt the popularity of Communism at the time.[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Greece#_note-4) Nikos Zachariadis officially renounced KKE's policy of secession in 1945.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Greece#_note-5)
The promise of self-determination for Macedonia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_%28Greece%29) was however resumed during the 5th congress of the central committee of KKE held during the civil war; [7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Greece#_note-6) this has been attributed to the fact that by 1949, about 40% on the Democratic Army of Greece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Army_of_Greece) (DSE) was composed of Greek Slavophones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minorities_in_Greece#Slavic-speaking).[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Greece#_note-7) The number of Slavic speakers in the DSE increased considerably after the merger of it with the National Liberation Front (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Liberation_Front_%28Macedonia%29) in 1946.



So what kind of people are these Greeks that spoke a non-Greek language that seemed to have played an important role in Greece in the Civil War?

[themacedonian]

Mustafa Kemal "Ataurk" was born Salonika (Greek Macedonia) and educated in Bitola (The "other" Macedonia), therefore he must had been Macedonian.

The land was under Turkish occupation. He was a pure turk.

In that case Mother Teresa (Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu) born August 26 1910 in Skopje then Turkish Empire and now Republic of Macedonia was TURKISH? She was Albanian for all it matters.

[Peris]

So what kind of people are these Greeks that spoke a non-Greek language that seemed to have played an important role in Greece in the Civil War?



the same kind as the Greeks speaking only Albanian during communist rule in Albania,Greeks but these ones were commies. The issue is nationality not language.

The former President of The FYROM, Kiro Gligorov said: “We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century ... we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians" (Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35).


On 22 January 1999, Ambassador of the FYROM to USA, Ljubica Achevska gave a speech on the present situation in the Balkans. In answering questions at the end of her speech Mrs. Acevshka said: "We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great … Greece is Macedonia’s second largest trading partner, and its number one investor. Instead of opting for war, we have chosen the mediation of the United Nations, with talks on the ambassadorial level under Mr. Vance and Mr. Nemitz." In reply to another question about the ethnic origin of the people of FYROM, Ambassador Achevska stated that "we are Slavs and we speak a Slav language”.




btw jow many Greeks live in FYROM today?