Video of abused captured Chechen rebels

[2RHPZ]

Posted on Novaja Gazeta. I don´t watch this yet, so please don´t blame on me if there is something wrong. This newspaper is well-known, so I guess it will be OK. It´s 35MB. Go to check related topic to General Discussion also.

http://2004.novayagazeta.ru/nomer/2004/25n/amnist.zip

Regards
CAG 147

[American Patriot]

why is this called amnesty.zip?

[Argyll]

Is there something going on I should be aware of here?

This is asking for trouble from the Russian members

[Herrmannek]

Chechens disembarking from lorrys and embarking on train...still nothing graphic(80%)... film is from 21.3.2000

Few dead people draged out of loorys, mabe becasue people were stacked to the roof of that cars...

[Herrmannek]

Nothing Russians should be proud of....

[RomanS]

how about we mention things Chechens should be proud of?

[Herrmannek]

how about we mention things Chechens should be proud of?

I think we discused this matter in general enough amount of times... Now we have video of Russians abusing prisoners. So i advise to focus only on that aspect...

[One?]

You guys didnt see anything. Thats what I saw:

-naked chechens being unloaded from a truck
-naked chechens had to pick up clothes from the floor and carry it to the train
-naked chechens carrying dead bodies from the truck (where they were before).

-a bunch of russian soldeirs standing over a pile of dead bodies for a while.

[American Patriot]

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/russia_chechnya4/detention-center.htm


During January and early February 2000, the remand prison at Chernokozovo, about sixty kilometers northwest of Grozny, was the principal destination for those detained in Chechnya. It quickly became infamous for savage torture of detainees. Forms of torture included prolonged beatings, beatings to the genitals and to the soles of the feet, rape, electric shocks, tear gas, and other methods. (52) Guards also subjected detainees to profound humiliation and degrading treatment. At least one person was beaten to death. Often prison guards and other law enforcement officers would use torture to coerce confessions or testimony; just as often, however, it had no apparent purpose.

Because of the extent and severity of the allegations of abuse at Chernokozovo, Human Rights Watch carried out a detailed investigation into the facility, confirming and collaborating accounts of beatings, torture, and rape there. Human Rights Watch calls for a full investigation by the Russian authorities of what happened at Chernokozovo in January and February 2000, for those responsible for human rights violations committed there to be brought to justice, and for compensation to be granted to victims or their relatives.

Human Rights Watch independently located and conducted interviews with nineteen former detainees from Chernokozovo, including two women. In addition, the Memorial Human Rights Center, a prominent Russian group with a research presence in Ingushetia, shared with Human Rights Watch their material from interviews with other former Chernokozovo detainees. Taken together, these lengthy interviews yield a detailed picture of the abuses detainees sustained. From the time they entered the Chernokozovo facility, when Russian guards would force them to run a gauntlet of guards who would beat them mercilessly, through their stay in cramped and sordid conditions, to the time they were released, detainees had no relief from torment.

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/russia_chechnya4/detention-center.htm

[RomanS]

Im gona download it and see it now. I'll get back to you Hermanek right after I watch it.

Lets see what kind of evidence they have...

[RomanS]

First 2 minutes in the video, Russian soldier asks

"Why the **** you were throwing grenades at the wounded soldiers, they weren't a threat to you anymore....

[Russian Texan]

This video has some funny dialogues :lol: :lol: :lol:

But you got to speak/understand russian to appreciate it.
In the last minute and a half, after they finished boarding detainees on the train, one guys asks another:

- Listen, 63 + 11 is 74, right?

- Well yeah, but we had 72? ...

-Right we had 72, where two more came from? Ah, screw it.

-I don't know, maybe they are multiplying...

- It's alright, important thing that we don't have less, more is ok, better more than less.

- It's good to have some spare ones 'cause they are dying like every hour...


On a serious note: Where in this video did you see any abuse or inhumane treatment? If anything, this video is an example how detainees need to be treated.
Naked Chechens jumping out of the car - BS. There was only one naked detainee - the first one, the rest were dressed, well, at least partially.
There were no beating, no hoods over the heads... One guy got kicked for moving too slow - that is it...
Where the abuse?
My siblings get more abuse from me than those guys....
:cantbeli:

[n4292936]

i think the abuse is implied in that there are dozens of dead inside the transport truck and that the Russian states "they are dying.." however often he said they were. Not exactly Geneva Convention standards is it. :cantbeli: There are, in war, objective standards that should be met in the treatment of prisoners. This video certainly implies that those standards are not being met by Russia in the treatment of these men, scumbag terrorists though they may be - they may also be people who themselves as fighting for their homeland in a just struggle against illegitimate Russian rule.

By the way, armies do not qualify their standard of behaviour with respect to another army's - or groups. Who gives a **** if the chechens dont have anything to be proud of in the way of humane treatment of prisoners - the Russian army is not the Chechen army and shouldnt use the piss poor rational "They do such horrible things to us so dont cry foul when we do it to them" to justify their behaviour. Its ****ty soldiering and a juevenile rational.

[SeanAshi]

well its no naked man pyramid I'll tell ya....

[MEGR]

This is silly.. There are no rules in war.

[Russian Texan]

i think the abuse is implied in that there are dozens of dead inside the transport truck

Dozens?
Would you mind posting a screen still with dozens of dead in the truck, may be we both are watching a different video?

Geneva convention standards...
Sure it might work in Geneva or in clean, airconditioned and politicaly correct newspaper offices.
But somehow I think people are different in the war zone, Chechnya is not Geneva you know...

I am sure that Geneva is a beautiful place, but it is fake.... What is real are the emotions and instincts of a soldier whose friend had yesterday his head cut off by "freedom fighter" and today you expect him to treat the very same person who done it with respect and dignity, would you?
Get real...

In the real, civiliazed world, people are killing each other over the parking space and because of the road rage, now try compare the amount of stress in your everyday life and emotions it invokes to those in combat...

Geneva convention is the utopia, well may be if Luxembourg and Monaco go to war with each other - then yes it might be adhered to.

[n4292936]

i think the abuse is implied in that there are dozens of dead inside the transport truck

Dozens?
Would you mind posting a screen still with dozens of dead in the truck, may be we both are watching a different video?

Geneva convention standards...
Sure it might work in Geneva or in clean, airconditioned and politicaly correct newspaper offices.
But somehow I think people are different in the war zone, Chechnya is not Geneva you know...

I am sure that Geneva is a beautiful place, but it is fake.... What is real are the emotions and instincts of a soldier whose friend had yesterday his head cut off by "freedom fighter" and today you expect him to treat the very same person who done it with respect and dignity, would you?
Get real...

In the real, civiliazed world, people are killing each other over the parking space and because of the road rage, now try compare the amount of stress in your everyday life and emotions it invokes to those in combat...

Geneva convention is the utopia, well may be if Luxembourg and Monaco go to war with each other - then yes it might be adhered to.

Towards the end of the video there were about a dozen bodies piled up, perhaps the plural form of that word shouldnt have been used. :D
Look Im sympathetic with the above argument about a soldier whose mate's just had his head cut off and now wants revenge. But what was happening there was much more institutional than that. It was obviously sanctioned by officers in a controled environment, away from the field of battle, and carried out by soldiers.
I know the Geneva convention sets forth a set of "ideal" rules that should apply to warfare, and yes that Chechnya is not Geneva is obvious to all i think. That is, however, utterly beside the point. If there should be no rules in warfare then what has happend to the Russian soldier who was beheaded is ok, what happened to the Blackwater Security guys was OK, and what happened by the Nazis to their prisoners of war was ok as well. I think any reasonable person would agree with me that all of those example should not be condoned as ok. It therefore follows that there SHOULD be rules of conduct with respect to some aspects of war - especially the treatment of prisoners who after their capture, are in controlled environments absolutely subject to the rule of there captors. This is why there are rules in war - any war.
No Flame war intended - just a tempered viewpoint :P

[2RHPZ]

Uh, I guess I started flame war ... sorry. Anyway, may I have a request to Russians overehere? Could you translate these articles from NG for all non-russian speaking members? Thanx. I will try to translate this first article I have read tommorow.

[Sergei]

No sodomizing pictures? nah, that has to be the trademark of yankee culture. :bash:
I say the chechens are having it really easy after what those animals are doing to their captives, and not particularly to the POWs but to civilians as well.
Those "children of mountains" are truly living in the 13the century.

P.S. The source is Novaya gazeta and that tells a lot. Liberal scum are jumping out of their pants to prove their point and doing a poor job at that.

[Groove]

From the truck into cells filled with water i hope.

Btw - a war between Monaco and Luxemburg would be a crazy thing ! :)

Groove

[mack pl]

From the truck into cells filled with water i hope.

Btw - a war between Monaco and Luxemburg would be a crazy thing ! :)

GrooveNah,Luxembourg is too strong, but Andora vs Monaco it could be funny war ;) Ohh,well Lichteinstein vs Malta too rofl

[RomanS]

Not a single Russian soldier signed Geneva Convention.

And if you want to speak about Geneva convetion, CHechens ignored it in the first 2 hours of fighting back in 94.

Russia will not be like WEST, neither do we want to.

[mack pl]

Not a single Russian soldier signed Geneva Convention.

And if you want to speak about Geneva convetion, CHechens ignored it in the first 2 hours of fighting back in 94.

Russia will not be like WEST, neither do we want to.Chechnay arent independent state so for them GC is only piece of paper.BTW maybe Im missunderstand what you mean,but if Russia will dont care about GC,ohh,well, its only yours problem.Remember WW II, Soviet Russia didnt signed GC and germans soldiers do what they only want with russian POWs.But maybe I dont understand what you mean,If Im not correct,sorry Permskii. :|

[5jumpchump]

OMG !!!! Look at all the tourture ! One guy got yelled at ! Another got a finger pointed at him ! One guy even got kicked in the butt ! Another guy had to pick up bloddy clothes ! Damn where's the GC when you need it ??? Do you guys hear something ? I do . It's the worlds smallest violin ..........:roll: