Erwin Rommel

[avenger35]

http://users.skynet.be/fa101291/personen/foto/rommel4.jpghttp://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=48194&rendTypeId=4
He was the commander of the German Africa Corps and also became known by the nickname "The Desert Fox". He was a great commander and strategist. He managed Axis forces in Africa in these battles:
Siege of Tobruk
Operation Crusader
The Battle of Gazala
Battle of El Alamein
The Battle of Alam El Halfa

[Switek]

Let me introduce his relative - gen. Juliusz Rómmel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliusz_Rómmel).

http://strony.aster.pl/wrzesien/postacie/rommel.jpg

[Jarhead]

My Great-Grandfather was serving in Rommel´s Afrika Korps

[khalifah]

Correct me if I am wrong...
But wasn't Rommel in command of the shore defence's shreching all over the Normandy coast during D-Day?

[California Joe]

Yeah, but Hitler didn't allow him the manpower to do what he wanted. Which was kill everything before it got to the beach.

[khalifah]

Yeah I thought so...

I can't find the link but Rommels plan involved stationing a number of Armored units (Birgades, Divisions???) in key cities such as Carantan.
This plan was to suppress any break in the German shorline, with a concentrated armored counter assult.

But as Hitler would have it, he made Rommel spread the armored units throughout the Normandy shore. So there was no armored reinforcements.

Its funny how Hitlers unfaithfullness twards his generals got Germany crushd...

[California Joe]

I remember reading that Rommel had serious misgivings about the defenses. Concerned that they were inadequate.

I'm sure there are quite a few members here that know a great deal about him and that particular part of his career....

[StuRat]

Rommel wanted a dynamic defense line, with tanks in the rear to go forward as the need arised, but he wasn't allowed to.

It didn't help that on the day of the landing he was on holiday because he didn't think the weather was right for an invasion.

[roland]

Rommel wanted a dynamic defense line, with tanks in the rear to go forward as the need arised, but he wasn't allowed to.


I'm affraid it's the contrary: Rommel wanted the tank to stay close to the beachs so they could counter attack very fast and not risk air attack while moving to the front.
Von Runsted thought the contrary and wanted the tanks and a lot of reserve to stay in the rear and able to counter attack massively once the disembarquement point would be determined.
Hitler took the middle ground and decided the tanks would stay further than Rommel wanted but closer to the beach than Von Runsted wanted. Like often with middle ground, the worse decision..

Apart of that Rommel was a pretty good general, that almost always obtained what he asked from Hitler because Hitler liked him.
He was a good propaganda caracter as an Aryan looking focking NAZI that had some galantry toward the Brits only because the Brits have some German in the blood but happily killed any black soldier he made prisonner during the battle of France as he would probably have killed any slav prisonner had he been on the Eastern front.

[Freibier]

Any proof for that last sentence, kermit?

[Jarhead]

Any proof for that last sentence, kermit?
x2 any proof there:roll:

[roland]

Any proof for that last sentence, kermit?

http://www.amazon.fr/Rommel-fin-mythe-Dominique-Lormier/dp/2749101085

translation:


Editor's presentation
This biography, based on archives and documents often unpublished, sweeping assumptions about the life of Rommel, modeled by the Nazi propaganda, which has made a "god of war" of the people as Hitler.
Brilliant fighter of the First World War, Rommel adheres to the ideas of the Third Reich, became an instructor of Hitler Youth, ensures the security of Hitler ... A hidden past by many historians. During the campaign in France in 1940, the 7th panzerdivision, that he commanded, is guilty of war crimes against prisoners of Senegal. For the first time, this book restores the decisive role played by the Italian army in the success of Rommel in Libya and Egypt, replace the importance of the battle of Bir-Hakeim in restoring Britons to El Alamein, met highlight strategic errors German command in the conduct of the war in the Mediterranean. Behind the mask composed by propagandists, with the complacency of the model is a man who commits serious mistakes, both in Africa and Normandy. Rommel finally found, but no later than the folly of head of the Third Reich leading Germany to ruin. It conspiring to reach a separate peace with the Anglo and will pay with his life.


btw: what does kermit means ?

[Freibier]

That book doesn't prove your statement and kermit is the frog from the muppets show

[roland]

That book doesn't prove your statement ..

Like all discussion about Rommel, this thread was fast turning into how wise, fair and nice Rommel was.
This book at least prove one thing: not everybody agree.
It is clearly a book against Rommel, there is a lot of opinions but there is also some facts. I think the fact that his division comited atrocities against black soldiers during the battle of France is a fact and I've seen it from several sources.
Now no I can't prove it.

Rommel is a myth. Everybody need some myth, nothing wrong with that as long as it's good myth. And Rommel is a good myth: the good general that is loved by his soldiers and respect his enemy. fine. The only trouble is that first it's a German myth, not a French one, second, Rommel was a Nazi.
I just wanted to point that out on a thread about Rommel before it turn boring.



..and kermit is the frog from the muppets show
sure I should have guessed myself.

[Soldat Inconnu]

The only trouble is that first it's a German myth, not a French one, second, Rommel was a Nazi.

I disagree.
Rommel was a legend in WWI, and he was in fact a remarkable general in WWII Africa corp. I remember watching this old show about AC showing him building a barge alongside with his soldiers. I'm sure there are more examples like that one.

He was never in Nazi party.

[Lt.Havoc]

Well, as far as I know, Rommel didnt followed the order of killing black or other ethnich POWs at all. During the Africa Campain, the only order he gave to his men was, not to shop in jewish stores, but that laws was already in place 1935 from the Nürnberger Rassegesetzen.

The recent documentary I saw about him, said that he was a split man. He followed Hitler cuz´ Rommel wanted to be a soldier, nothing more, nothing else, but on the other hand, he didnt wanted to have anything to do with the insane "War of the Races" Hitler had in mind and the war crimes comming from it.

Even Montgommery had a photo of Rommel hanging in his tent and saw him as equal competion. Rommel also could arrange the halt of fire during battels with the British to get the wouned of the field. To a givin time, ecpseically at night, both sides would ease fire and send unarmed medics out to ge the wounded and death from the battlefield.

One german soldier said "They would carry away our wounded and we would carry away thier wounded, treating them in our hospital. Non of us had any hate towards the British soldiers. They where soldiers, just like us."

Another episode regarding Romeel, is that he gave the order to retreat and pull out, even if Hitlerorderd otherwise and that he gave the killed SAS soldiers who should campture him during the Normandy invasion a formal soldier funeral, even if Hitler orderd the bodies to be burned and captured SAS men to be killed.

Ok, I do not know what else he did, but from all I know, read and heared, he wasnt a race fantic nor a real nazi as some other genrals where. As long as there isnt any hard evidence of comitted war crimes by him, then all things written regarding that, is just to destroy the legend sorrounding him. I think a lot of people would be pissed wehn somone would write a book about war crimes of Patton or Montgommery.

THe fact that Rommel served in the Wehrmacht dosent make him automatically a war criminal. A lot of my relatives served in The Wehrmacht too, one of them was a guard of Hermann Göring, but non of them was a nazi nor a war criminal.

I think some people just cant belive that there would be a man like Rommel, serving in Hitlers army, that inst a bad guy at all, ecpseically since germans during that time where all regarded as Evil-jew-killing nazis.

[roland]

The 17 of May 1940 Rommel have ordered the execution of the colonel Savare of the 254th infantry regiment because he refused to order cease fire to his troops.
As for the execution of the Senegalese prisonners, it happened but the direct order from Rommel is not proven.

Guderian would have been a better example of the hard but fair and excellent German general imho. But he was less "people" and fought mainly on the Eastern front witch make him less popular on anglo media.

Now it's true that Rommel did not liked much mundanities so did not compromized much with the Nazi elite.

[khalifah]

Can anyone tell me what happened to Rommel after the Invasion of France...

My understanding is that he was executed for his failure of protecting the Normandy coast or was it something else?...

[roland]

Can anyone tell me what happened to Rommel after the Invasion of France...

My understanding is that he was executed for his failure of protecting the Normandy coast or was it something else?...

iirc it's mainly that he was aware of the 20th of July plot against Hitler but didn't denounced it witch make him indirectly complice.
Also he wasn't executed but instead recieved order to commit suicide. In exchange his family was not executed.

[Lt.Havoc]

No, Rommel was in holiday during the France invasion. He was called to Berlin right after the invasion for a staff meeting. He leater returend home, I belive while he was ill, or something. Then, the attampt happend to kill Hitler on 20 July 1944. Rommel new about it and after the coup failed, some SS guys appeard at Rommels home and told him they knew he was involved.

They told him if he would not come with them, they also would kill his familiy. Rommel had tried to bring them to Switzerland in sceret, but he couldnt manage it in time.

On the drive to the HQ, they told him to take Ziankaly pill- He took it and died. They faked his death fiel, writing he died "From a heart attack". He got a heros furneral and honor. They couldnt destroy his myth and legend in the end.

[stoddy9311]

Lieutenant Colonel von Hofacker had said in an interrogation testimony, That Rommel had known about the assassination attempt on Hitler.

Hitler felt wounded by the betrayal, as he had always held Rommel in high esteem.

He instructed General Keitel to summon Rommel to Berlin, to challenge this accusation.

Keitel sent a train for Rommel, but he refused to go.

At Midday on the 14th of October, Generals Burgdorf and Maisel arrived at Rommels home in Herrlingen and spoke to Rommel in private for 45 minutes.

They all came out, and Rommel summoned his wife Lucy. He told her that he had been given two choices by Hitler. Suicide or trial by a peoples court.
He told his wife that he would contest the accusations in front of a court, and this is where he was going.

when he left with the two generals and the SS staff car driver, Manfred (Rommels son, home on leave) and Obergerfreiter Loistl (Rommels batman) had noticed several other cars with men in civilians, parked outside the house. They then followed on behind the two generals.




15 minutes later, his wife received a call that Rommel had died of an Heart attack.( this was recounted at Nuremberg trials).


I truly believe that Rommel was murdered by the Gestapo, I believe this was the only order from Hitler, and the ruse of a trial, was just used to get Rommel in the car.

[orange]

...
The only trouble is that first it's a German myth, not a French one, second, Rommel was a Nazi.
I just wanted to point that out on a thread about Rommel before it turn boring.
I'll take the word of almost all military historians over yours any day.

Put up some facts and sources of your claims of him being a Nazi now please.. Your personal thoughts aint worth jack sh|t so it would really help your little cause if you could get something credible to lean on.
:bash:

[black mamba]

rommel was definitely not a nazi. and even the allies held him in high esteem. there are loads of comments from montgomery etc praising his expertise

[stoddy9311]

The 17 of May 1940 Rommel have ordered the execution of the colonel Savare of the 254th infantry regiment because he refused to order cease fire to his troops.


that is incorrect.

colonel Savare troops had already surrendered to Rommel, and Rommel ordered the colonel to get in a Tank (colonel rothenberg's of the 25th panzer regiment).

he refused three times, so Rommel shot him .

[The Blacksmith]

Good stuff,and a great General. I have always thought we(allies)were lucky that Hitler never allowed Rommel the manpower etc. that he wanted in Normandy or Op Overlord may have turned into Op Overboard. p-)

[khalifah]

It is undeniable that ww2 could have ended very differently had Hitler trusted his generals and listend to them.

Much respect to the German Military having to face the Allies on one hand and the Nazi Gestapo in the other.

[stoddy9311]

It is a fascinating period in History, and one I have great interest in.

for some good books and information on Rommel, I would recommend

Knights Cross:a life of Field Marshall Erwin Rommel by David Frazer.

The Rommel papers by B.H. Liddell-Hart.( he used a lot of Rommels own manuscripts)
Inside the third reich by Albert Speer.

and one of my favourite all time books:

Panzer Commander:The memoirs of Colonel Hans von Luck

these sources are unbiased, and are a lot better than wikipedia's version of events

[Soldat Inconnu]

No, Rommel was in holiday during the France invasion. He was called to Berlin right after the invasion for a staff meeting. He leater returend home, I belive while he was ill, or something.

Actually he was returning back home to his wife birthday. And his staff car was attacked by Spitfire (Canadian Airforce). He had really bad head injuries and barely made it.

[avenger35]

Actually he was returning back home to his wife birthday. And his staff car was attacked by Spitfire (Canadian Airforce). He had really bad head injuries and barely made it.

yes its true and later he forced to suicede.

[Freibier]

Actually he was returning back home to his wife birthday. And his staff car was attacked by Spitfire (Canadian Airforce). He had really bad head injuries and barely made it.
That was on July 17th

[roland]

I'll take the word of almost all military historians over yours any day.

Put up some facts and sources of your claims of him being a Nazi now please.. Your personal thoughts aint worth jack sh|t so it would really help your little cause if you could get something credible to lean on.
:bash:

Ok, so Rommel was an important leader in the Hitler Jungen, worked for Hitler's personal protection, was a Hitler's protege, was a Nazi propaganda star but yeah, wasn't a Nazi. Give me a break, you can keep your stick and put it wherever you wish.
Considering that plus the fact that his unit is suspected of atrocities during the campaign of France, one is perfecty allowed to question your dear Marshal's reputation.
What's true though is that Rommel was first and above all a soldier, NOT a politician.
That's why his reputation may pass a little stess test without much damage. Or is it you aren't that confident ?

[jango]

Rommel is the only german that i could respect out of ww2

[Freibier]

Rommel is the only german that i could respect out of ww2
That's a pretty stupid (uninformed?) statement

[orange]

...
Or is it you aren't that confident ?
I'm still waiting for you to back up your claims of him being a Nazi. Seeing that most historians won't help you with that I'm actually pretty curious what links and references you might put up...


Rommel is the only german that i could respect out of ww2
That's a pretty fvcking ignorant statement..

[umutferhat]

Rommel is the only german that i could respect out of ww2

Manstein !Another military genius !And so the others...

[Heinzi]

Rommel is the only german that i could respect out of ww2


I guess quite some Germans on this board have relatives who fought in ww2, just like me. They could find such statements offensive.

[orange]

I guess quite some Germans on this board have relatives who fought in ww2, just like me. They could find such statements offensive.
They should find such statements offensive...

[Dodge]

Here's a couple of facts for you, Rommel's son, Manfred who is still alive today was the Mayor of Stuttgart from 1974 until 1996. And fast Henz's son, Heinz, was Major General and Inspector of Panzer Troops in the West German Bundeswehr and NATO.

Also, Manfred Rommel was good friends with George Patton IV (Patton's son). :hug:

[Heinzi]

They should find such statements offensive...

Indeed ...
The reality looks different though.

True dogde, you should look up the name Gerhard Graf von Schwerin, too. He served in the same Division like Heinz-Günther Guderian, son of Heinz Guderian.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Ok, so Rommel was an important leader in the Hitler Jungen, worked for Hitler's personal protection, was a Hitler's protege, was a Nazi propaganda star but yeah, wasn't a Nazi. Give me a break, you can keep your stick and put it wherever you wish.
Considering that plus the fact that his unit is suspected of atrocities during the campaign of France, one is perfecty allowed to question your dear Marshal's reputation.
What's true though is that Rommel was first and above all a soldier, NOT a politician.
That's why his reputation may pass a little stess test without much damage. Or is it you aren't that confident ?

Virtually all German senior military were members of the Nazi Party. One of the perks for becoming a General.

[Roldwin]

It is a fascinating period in History, and one I have great interest in.

for some good books and information on Rommel, I would recommend

Knights Cross:a life of Field Marshall Erwin Rommel by David Frazer.

The Rommel papers by B.H. Liddell-Hart.( he used a lot of Rommels own manuscripts)
Inside the third reich by Albert Speer.

and one of my favourite all time books:

Panzer Commander:The memoirs of Colonel Hans von Luck

these sources are unbiased, and are a lot better than wikipedia's version of events


I'd also recommend With Rommel in the Desert, from Heinz W. Schmidt, that was his personal Aide de Camp during for some months

[WarDancer]

I once saw a documentary about Rommel. Basically saying he was not a member of the NAZI party and even refused to do the extended arm salute, instead prefering the traditional military salute.