British Belt Fed Weapons in World War II?

[deadtired]

I've been thinking about this, I've used Google and I still can't find an answer.

Did the British Army field a lightweight belt-fed infantry weapon during WWII? I know they used the Bren Gun as a squad support weapon, and it was very versatile, but did they ever use anything along like the M1919 or the MG-34/MG-42? They had aerial .303 belt fed machine guns, but I can't think of anything that the infantry used. Any help from the experts out there?


Mods, if this belongs in the History and Tactics section, please feel free to move it there. Thanks!

[Mark Sman]

The Vickers if memory, and Wikipedia, serve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_machine_gun

The Lewis was in Home Guard service during WWII according to self same Encyclopedia Erratica.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_Gun

[gafkiwi]

The Lewis gun is drum fed. I don't know about other commonwealth countries but alot of NZ units would supplement their own weapons with captured german ones, it wasn't out of place to see MG34-42s in the hands of Kiwi sections.
During the desert campaign, Some of the bren gun carriers of the NZ Div Cavalry were known to have had 13mm machine guns recovered from german aircraft/airfields mounted on pintal mounts and fired using a dynamo. Once the ammo dried up it would be biffed overboard.

[playtym]

The Vickers if memory, and Wikipedia, serve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_machine_gun


I'd hardly consider the Vickers (a water-cooled machine gun) to be a "lightweight belt-fed infantry weapon" - gun, tripod, ammo, condenser can - that's a fair bit to lug around.

[DeltaWhisky58]

Bren Gun - Magazine fed

Vickers K-gun - Drum fed, used by SAS/LRDG on their jeeps etc.

Lewis Gun - Drum fed, used mainly on AA mounts for airfield defense, but also by LRDG/Home Guard etc.

Other than the US-made .30 and .50 Browning MGs, the only Belt fed weapons used by the British Army in numbers were the Vickers (tripod mounted/water cooled) which was only used as an MMG, and the BESA which was tank/AFV mounted.


Mods, if this belongs in the History and Tactics section, please feel free to move it there. Thanks!

Most generous of you.

[Hydro]

I've read accounts of UK units (more often than not Commandos) pressing captured MG34 into service in the field, but doubtful that captured stocks were held and regularly issued for anything else than special purposes.

The late, great, Spike Milligan once tried to raffle a captured MG15 from a shot down bomber in the UK but was "persuaded" by his OC to use it as an AA gun instead in friendly service.

1919's were used in the US tanks in UK service, and of course the .50 Browning in vehicle roles, but that's hardly a lightweight infantry weapon.

The fact was the Bren was excellent as an offensive section level LMG, with the Vickers providing heavy fire support at company and above level, there was no real need at the time for the MoD to replace both weapons with a GPMG, as the tactics were already developed and working well with the weapons in service.

[REMOV]

Did the British Army field a lightweight belt-fed infantry weapon during WWII?Nope. Only MMG - Vickers and LMG - BREN. The whole idea of the general purpose machine gun (GPMG) came to the UK Army after the WWII in 1950s/1960s with the Belgium 7,62-mm FN MAG 58 machine gun apart of some experimental weapons designed in late 1940s, ahead of their times in Western countries, like the TADEN (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/TADEN.jpg) - machinegun fed by intermediate ammunition (.280), something like the later American SAW, but more general (the .280 cartridge was stronger).

[deadtired]

Thanks guys for all the help, and for the info on the BESA and the TADEN. Interesting stuff.

Hydro, I also remembered that Milligan discussed learing to shoot Bren and Vickers MG's but he specifically mentioned the Vickers as being water cooled.

Thanks again!

[DeltaWhisky58]

The Vickers "K" Gun was air cooled, the Vickers Medium MG was water cooled.

[welshmann]

As DW has said

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_machine_gun

[welshmann]

[/LEFT]

I'd hardly consider the Vickers (a water-cooled machine gun) to be a "lightweight belt-fed infantry weapon" - gun, tripod, ammo, condenser can - that's a fair bit to lug around.

Nothing was lightweight in them days:P

[Eoin666]

38096

The beautiful Vickers K, in what must be one of the most famous photos from WWII

[deadtired]

I take it those were all petrol cans on those jeeps?

They used Chevy trucks as well, IIRC.

[StuRat]

Being in the desert, some of them are probably water

[Royal]

Being in the desert, some of them are probably water

Water cans were generally, but not always, marked with a white cross by both sides in North Africa.