Janes: Marching valiantly into the quagmire

[Anastasius Focht]

Marching valiantly into the quagmire

Intriguing but unconfirmed rumours have reached Foreign Report that may have far-reaching consequences for the Coalition operation in Iraq, as well as Britain's domestic politics.

According to the report, secret discussions may be under way concerning the Polish-commanded south-central multinational military division. There has been continuous speculation that the Poles, one of the biggest contingents in the Coalition force, will withdraw.

While for the moment they are saying they will not follow the Spanish example, they have called for a "progressive reduction" of their 2,400 troops, as casualties rise (three dead, as well as their top war correspondent) and public opposition grows.

Following the Abu Ghraib prison scandal and betting on the likelihood that the security situation will get even worse, other staunch US allies in the new Europe are also rapidly distancing themselves from the Bush administration.

In Hungary, former prime minister and opposition leader Viktor Orban, who had hitherto supported Hungary's role in Iraq, called operations there "morally unsustainable". The Hungarian government has agreed to review its commitment, which currently stands at 300 troops. Bulgaria's troops, six of which have been killed, are increasingly restive: 24 soldiers had to be sent home recently after complaining about their mission and another 15 who were due to return to their country in August have already quit. Ukraine's resolve is also wavering after four of its soldiers were killed in action.

Spain's 1,300 troops, eight of whom have died, will be gone by 1 June, leaving a big hole in the Coalition's forces around the holy city of Najaf, home to radical anti-US cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. The USA has asked Britain to fill the vacuum, it currently commands the southern sector, has 8,700 troops stationed in Iraq and has suffered 59 casualties. It appears that Britain will comply, although its own military planners are less than happy.


http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/fr/fr040519_1_n.shtml

[Argyll]

There's no doubt in my Mind buddy.......................you are/were HELEX.

Same Anti Coalition in Iraq sentiments ,same type of threads.


You've been rumbled................and the Same IP location right down to the latitude and Longitude

Nice try ;)

[Ratamacue]

It's sad how desperate these people are to get back.

[Anastasius Focht]

There's no doubt in my Mind buddy.......................you are/were HELEX.

Same Anti Coalition in Iraq sentiments ,same type of threads.


You've been rumbled................and the Same IP location right down to the latitude and Longitude

Nice try ;)

What are you trying to tell me, please explain? And what "type of threads" do I post and what means rumbled?

And why dont you want to tell anything about Iraq as asked in PM?

[Argyll]

Same Anti Coalition in Iraq sentiments ,same type of threads.


I can't be bothered to look out all your old posts

rumbled...........look it up

Like I've said the similarities,right down to the Lat and long........if you think there's an agenda against you explain it to Hood.

[Anastasius Focht]

Who is Hood and why is something about the coalition from Janes unwelcome Info here? I dont get that!

And what "Anti coalition" sentiments did I express?

[He219]

Argyll's got radar lock, Latitude and Longitude.

Tallyho! Cannonball coming....




BOOYAH
p-)

[n4292936]

Hes got a point, if the article is from Janes then it should be considered adminssable.

[Ratamacue]

Who is Hood and why is something about the coalition from Janes unwelcome Info here? I dont get that!

And what "Anti coalition" sentiments did I express?

Oh you poor, confused child! :slap:

[Abolith]

Why can't he understrand that he is not welcome here??

[Fintin]

::gets out pack of hot dogs::....this is going to be funny

[Seoulstriker]

in b4 da lock. :lol:

Welcome back, HELEX. Up to his usual tricks. :roll:

[Kilgor]

Anastasius Focht is french right ?

[talib_killa34]

I was AWOL for a bit.

Good to hear HELEX got the 86.

You learn something new everyday. woot

[AFG]

Anastasius Focht is french right ?

German?

[moughoun]

Anastasius Focht is french right ?

German?

Annoying

[lekomin]

Marching valiantly into the quagmire

Intriguing but unconfirmed rumours have reached Foreign Report that may have far-reaching consequences for the Coalition operation in Iraq, as well as Britain's domestic politics.

According to the report, secret discussions may be under way concerning the Polish-commanded south-central multinational military division. There has been continuous speculation that the Poles, one of the biggest contingents in the Coalition force, will withdraw.

While for the moment they are saying they will not follow the Spanish example, they have called for a "progressive reduction" of their 2,400 troops, as casualties rise (three dead, as well as their top war correspondent) and public opposition grows.

Following the Abu Ghraib prison scandal and betting on the likelihood that the security situation will get even worse, other staunch US allies in the new Europe are also rapidly distancing themselves from the Bush administration.

In Hungary, former prime minister and opposition leader Viktor Orban, who had hitherto supported Hungary's role in Iraq, called operations there "morally unsustainable". The Hungarian government has agreed to review its commitment, which currently stands at 300 troops. Bulgaria's troops, six of which have been killed, are increasingly restive: 24 soldiers had to be sent home recently after complaining about their mission and another 15 who were due to return to their country in August have already quit. Ukraine's resolve is also wavering after four of its soldiers were killed in action.

Spain's 1,300 troops, eight of whom have died, will be gone by 1 June, leaving a big hole in the Coalition's forces around the holy city of Najaf, home to radical anti-US cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. The USA has asked Britain to fill the vacuum, it currently commands the southern sector, has 8,700 troops stationed in Iraq and has suffered 59 casualties. It appears that Britain will comply, although its own military planners are less than happy.

khmm.. Poland will not run. We are not Southern Europeans and we are not accustomed to escaping
The original plan for the Polish command was, that after 3 rotations the Spaniards will take over command of the whole division and Poland will reduce its involvement to around 1000 soldiers. In effect the Poles and Spaniards would have swap their roles. In the meantime, the 3rd rotation was supposed to be reduced by around 100 to 200 soldiers, as some of the soldiers were not needed (too many logisticians, cooks, drivers, etc). Security situation made those plans useless and the 3rd rotation will equal the number of the previous ones, albeit with more operational troops instead of the rear echelons.

The problem with Poland is, we have only 4 divisional HQ in Poland, and that would mean that after 4 rotations (i.e. 2 years) the DivHQ which commanded the 1st rotation would have to come back to Iraq. In a conscript army it is quite impossible to go on with such operational tempo for a lengthy period of time.
All those plans collapsed at the moment of the Spanish withdrawal.
As things stand right now Poland will lead the division for the 3rd rotation. After that it is possible that after the transfer of power to the Iraqis, NATO will take over.
As for elections in Poland, the current government crisis will lead to early election either around October 2004 or March 2005. The leading opposition party PO (Civic Platform - liberals) is a vocal supporter of the Iraqi mission.
To summarize, Poland will not leave Iraq. I am pretty sure even terrorist attacks in Poland would rather strenghen the resolve then cause a withdrawal. We are different animals then the Spanish :-E
take care
lekomin inc

[moughoun]

[/quote]
khmm.. Poland will not run. We are not Southern Europeans and we are not accustomed to escaping
[/quote]

Ah, well we'll have to see about that one, remember Poland has a great military tradition, but politicion's are the same the World over, if they smell the egg's going bad they'll want out of the kitchen too

[Herrmannek]

We will stay there as long as we should... We are more like springs than butter, stronger you hit stronger we punch back.... Morale of our soldiers there is very good, support for our work there is stable even rising. Most people who will cast vote in close elections support our presence in Iraq and will vote on parties who also support our engagement there so only thing we could worry about are people resources and money...

[moughoun]

We will stay there as long as we should... We are more like springs than butter, stronger you hit stronger we punch back.... Morale of our soldiers there is very good, support for our work there is stable even rising. Most people who will cast vote in close elections support our presence in Iraq and will vote on parties who also support our engagement there so only thing we could worry about are people resources and money...

I'm not doubting Polish courage or resolve, , if the situation start's getting worse then we can see what happen's untill then it's all hypothetical, it all come's down to politic's and all politic's is local so if Polish people start feeling it isn't worth it, politicion's start getting anxious and if politicion's get anxious anything can happen

[Herrmannek]

We will stay there as long as we should... We are more like springs than butter, stronger you hit stronger we punch back.... Morale of our soldiers there is very good, support for our work there is stable even rising. Most people who will cast vote in close elections support our presence in Iraq and will vote on parties who also support our engagement there so only thing we could worry about are people resources and money...

I'm not doubting Polish courage or resolve, , if the situation start's getting worse then we can see what happen's untill then it's all hypothetical, it all come's down to politic's and all politic's is local so if Polish people start feeling it isn't worth it, politicion's start getting anxious and if politicion's get anxious anything can happen

In ideal conditions and working western kind democracy...maybe...not here :) . Polish politicians ussualy represent mandate not will of polish people, so after elections they can do virtualy everything...

[moughoun]

We will stay there as long as we should... We are more like springs than butter, stronger you hit stronger we punch back.... Morale of our soldiers there is very good, support for our work there is stable even rising. Most people who will cast vote in close elections support our presence in Iraq and will vote on parties who also support our engagement there so only thing we could worry about are people resources and money...

I'm not doubting Polish courage or resolve, , if the situation start's getting worse then we can see what happen's untill then it's all hypothetical, it all come's down to politic's and all politic's is local so if Polish people start feeling it isn't worth it, politicion's start getting anxious and if politicion's get anxious anything can happen

In ideal conditions and working western kind democracy...maybe...not here :) . Polish politicians ussualy represent mandate not will of polish people, so after elections they can do virtualy everything...


I think the fully functioning western style democracy plan is changing into a let's leave it at them not killing each other, us or their neighbour's and leave it at that plan

[lekomin]

Ah, well we'll have to see about that one, remember Poland has a great military tradition, but politicion's are the same the World over, if they smell the egg's going bad they'll want out of the kitchen too
I wouldn't like to be a politician that is branded as a coward.. The Polish society is against keeping foreign troops in Iraq forever, but I'm quite sure they would protest the type of withdrawal the Spaniards are just finishing.

In the public reaction, the Polish public opinion is similiar to the USA. If attacked it responds with a call to arms and uniting behind a leader calling for revenge and not surender. I don't know whether it has much to do with our history (probably it does) or just the social menthality of not being ruled by anybody (in this case: terrorists). Many European countries, Spain included, bulge under pressure and give up. They simply cannot understand that accomodating the treat does not eradicate its roots, it simply allows them to grow even deeper.
take care
lekomin inc

[Sergei]

If the Poles will stay, so will the rest of the multi-national division. Otherwsie the division will be disbanded, since the head will be leaving. There is much more to it than just a political decision. Money is also a factor. I don't know about our Polish neighbors but this involvement of Ukraine in Iraq affairs is already costing an arm and a leg.

[moughoun]

Ah, well we'll have to see about that one, remember Poland has a great military tradition, but politicion's are the same the World over, if they smell the egg's going bad they'll want out of the kitchen too
I wouldn't like to be a politician that is branded as a coward.. The Polish society is against keeping foreign troops in Iraq forever, but I'm quite sure they would protest the type of withdrawal the Spaniards are just finishing.

In the public reaction, the Polish public opinion is similiar to the USA. If attacked it responds with a call to arms and uniting behind a leader calling for revenge and not surender. I don't know whether it has much to do with our history (probably it does) or just the social menthality of not being ruled by anybody (in this case: terrorists). Many European countries, Spain included, bulge under pressure and give up. They simply cannot understand that accomodating the treat does not eradicate its roots, it simply allows them to grow even deeper.
take care
lekomin inc

It's not cowardice if the situation is untenable, if you look at Vietnam (note I am not comparing Iraq and Vietnam on anything but political grounds), the U.S stuck out a war for well over 10year's and 58,000+ dead and although they won the military battle's who was it standing in Saigon in 75, imo Iraq was a luxury war one that did not need to be fought at the moment, there are other far more dangerous enemy's out there, Saudi Arabia where a hell of a lot of terrorist money and people seem to come from. Pakistan which despite what we keep getting told is a lot closer to a fundamentalist coup than people think, and of course Al qaida who kicked off the cuurent unplesentness, you see you are lettingyou emotion get in the way, I have not nor never will call Poland a coward butthis adventure in Iraq took everyone's eye off the ball a bit and now we have to play catch up before someone make's 9-11 pale into insignificance

[BlackRain]

Anastasius Focht is french right ?

German?


A google search reveals that "Anastasius Focht" is some GAY imaginary, futuristic character from a "Star Wars" type story.

See link: http://www.kerensky.tierranet.com/btech/comstar/comg&m.html

[moughoun]

Anastasius Focht is french right ?

German?


A google search reveals that "Anastasius Focht" is some GAY imaginary, futuristic character from a "Star Wars" type story.

See link: http://www.kerensky.tierranet.com/btech/comstar/comg&m.html

Oh sweet Jebus, it's one of them

[Rilence]

Who is Hood and why is something about the coalition from Janes unwelcome Info here? I dont get that!

And what "Anti coalition" sentiments did I express?
rofl im loving this! nice try helex