Marines in Somalia

[Merik]

Anyone have some information of what gear the Marines wore in Operation Restore Hope? Specifically like what the LBV's they wore and body vests?

[Rnagerrick]

the bhd book has some details. try bhd93.com

[Dalleer]

http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/mout/somalia2.jpg

http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/mout/somalia1.jpg

http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/mout/somalia5.jpg

http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/mout/somalia6.jpg

Here's some photos I found recently, and it seems that at least most of the guys featured in these photos are marines.

So the equipment seems pretty basic with the LC2's and all...

[bishop1]

SOmewhere i heard that they didnt even use LBE most of the time, because it was too hot, they just put ammo in their body armor pockets and carry a canteen on a belt or in a cargo pocket, but that was for short duration stuff, the guys in the pics just seem to be wearing the standard body armor and ALICE Y harness and pouches.

[crazyman]

the ol' alice system (aka LBE or LCE) was better then most ppl give it credit for...its a helluva lot more comfortable in hot weather, more easy to adjust and loosen up, and so on

[bishop1]

Please dont pelt me, but im an airsofter and i hate ALICE, its ok when you have on replica (or probably real armor forr that matter) armor or something, but just by itself i cant stand it.

[Dalleer]

Please dont pelt me, but im an airsofter and i hate ALICE, its ok when you have on replica (or probably real armor forr that matter) armor or something, but just by itself i cant stand it.

What's wrong with the LC2 harness set ?

I've got one of those things and they are well suited for Airsofting activities...

[droopy]

So in Somalia they wear the 6 color desert not the 3 color as in the movie ?

[scm77]

In the movies I don't think you see the Marines. Just Rangers and Delta. But yes in the movie the Rangers where three colour BDUs, but they have six colour helmet covers :|.

http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/mout/somalia2.jpg
How come they look like their modeling for a catalouge? Especially the guy on the right. :lol:

[bishop1]

i meant that the only expeiriance ive had is airsoft, and most people on here dont like airsofters, but i dont like the ALICE setup because unless you have 2 canteens and at least 2 ammo pouches full the weight can be off balance, like leaning back or off to one side, and i personally like my stuff big on me, but with canteens that doesnt seem to work because you cant get weight in the front to even it out.

[Dalleer]

In the movies I don't think you see the Marines. Just Rangers and Delta. But yes in the movie the Rangers where three colour BDUs, but they have six colour helmet covers :|.

http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/mout/somalia2.jpg
How come they look like their modeling for a catalouge? Especially the guy on the right. :lol:

Hmm, perhaps the 3-colored BDU's were just put into service around 1993 since during desert storm there were nothing else besides 6-color desert in use by the US. Afterall, the 6-colored pattern was the mainstay desert pattern of the US forces during the 80's.

Now I don't know how accurate BHD is on the helmet cover-matter but from these pictures and the movie I might guess that there wasn't enough 3-color helmet covers around yet so 6-colors were still used (afterall, it was just two years since the gulf).

And, it seems that some marine units still used the 6-colored BDU during "restore hope" as can be seen by these photos. So, I'm sure that the army did not have much of anything else in 6-colored besides the helmet covers (Oh, and BHD also featured a scene in which the soldiers carried 6-colored Boonie-hats!!).

Now what interests me in this whole matter are the vests these marines are wearing. I remember someone referring to them as "PASGT vests" here.

It's just funny because in BHD the Rangers wore US Woodland-colored vests, and according to these photos there were desert-colored ones available.

Either these "vests" I'm talking about here are strictly used by the marines. And therefore the army did not get their hands on them or then the army used some sorts of other vests (perhaps the ones in BHD or something).

[crazyman]

i dont know what in particular is giving you problems with the LBE, but i've used it in all sorts of different setups (rifleman, SAW/60 gunner, etc) and after a little trial and error i always found a way to balance things out very well.

[Ratamacue]

Now what interests me in this whole matter are the vests these marines are wearing. I remember someone referring to them as "PASGT vests" here.

It's just funny because in BHD the Rangers wore US Woodland-colored vests, and according to these photos there were desert-colored ones available.

Either these "vests" I'm talking about here are strictly used by the marines. And therefore the army did not get their hands on them or then the army used some sorts of other vests (perhaps the ones in BHD or something).

The Marines were wearing PASGT flak vests (http://www.specwargear.com/images/armor&vest-USMC-1.jpg) which were standard-issue for the US Military at the time. The Rangers wore an entirely different vest called Ranger Body Armor (http://www.special-warfare.net/data_base/303_protective/armor_02/ranger_armor_08.jpg).

[Merik]

Thanks fellas.

[Sir Zach of R.]

Has anyone actually figured out what the main vest was that Delta wore during the Battle of the Black Sea?

[Fintin]

the guy in the pic..the one holding the rifle is wearing 3 colors...

[moughoun]

the guy in the pic..the one holding the rifle is wearing 3 colors...

and everyone else missed it :cantbeli:

[Jackel]

I was there in 1994. We wore your basic 782 gear. Helmet, h- harness, flack vest, mag pouches, butt pack, canteens, first aid kit (if you call it that) and an alice pack. Thats about it. Oh and of course your weapon!

[Dalleer]

the guy in the pic..the one holding the rifle is wearing 3 colors...

and everyone else missed it :cantbeli:

Well you know I did say "And, it seems that some marine units still used the 6-colored BDU during "restore hope" as can be seen by these photos".

I was aware that the marines seemed to have a strange mixture of camouflage patterns in use during the Somalia operation.

I said some, not all.

[MarineGorbs]

Hello guys!

I´ve got another question. I am a member of a Marine Corps Military History Club from the Czech Republic. We´re focused on a period between 1990 and 1994 and we´re trying to solve a problem about equipment:

As a Fire Team Leader I am supposed to carry M16A2 rifle with M203 grenade launcher. In accordance with history and reality we´re using the PASGT protective system and standard ALICE gear of course. Problem is where or how should I carry M203 40 mm shells? My questions is headed especially to VETERANS of the First Gulf War or operations in Somalia (who know what are they talking about).

Were some special kinds of grenade vests issued to Fire Team Leaders (as an old style M79 grenade vest used in Vietnam), or were you carrying any 40mm bandoleer? Or what? The problem is, I haven´t seen any pictures and I haven´t found any manual concerning about it.

Please, don´t show me any pictures of modern MOLLE grenade vests or don´t say, that I shold use LBV instead ALICE. Or don´t tell me, how the Army did it. I need historically correct "Gung Ho" answer. If correct answer is "pick the grenades into your pockets, because we didn´t carry any special equpiment", I will do it.

If you are able to help me or to refer me to some Marine Corps Manual where this question is answered, I would be very grateful.

Thanks.

[Apogee]

i meant that the only expeiriance ive had is airsoft, and most people on here dont like airsofters, but i dont like the ALICE setup because unless you have 2 canteens and at least 2 ammo pouches full the weight can be off balance, like leaning back or off to one side, and i personally like my stuff big on me, but with canteens that doesnt seem to work because you cant get weight in the front to even it out.

Thats your problem. When those of us in the military wear an LBE, its pretty loaded down (minimum: 2 canteens, 2 ammo, 1 compass, 1 first aid, and a butt pack). I always push all the pouches as far forward as possible, so they don't snag or get cuaght under my ruck.

[Apogee]

Marine gorbs - I know you want a Marine answer, but in the Army, the team leader doesn't typically carry the 203. Its usually one of the team members who does.

[Nikitaras]

I was there in '95. We were issued 3 color BDU's and had 6 color flak jacket covers and pack covers. The helmet covers were also 3 color. Gear was your basic deuce gear y-harness' or LBVs.

As for the Team Leader question. TL carrried his 203 rounds in a grenadiers vest that was issued to them. Some of the specialty rounds such as flechette and CS were carried in a bandolier as well.

[boulderbum]

I was there in '95. We were issued 3 color BDU's and had 6 color flak jacket covers and pack covers. The helmet covers were also 3 color. Gear was your basic deuce gear y-harness' or LBVs.

As for the Team Leader question. TL carrried his 203 rounds in a grenadiers vest that was issued to them. Some of the specialty rounds such as flechette and CS were carried in a bandolier as well.

Just for elaboration, I think this is a picture of what you're talking about- http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?dept_id=1609&sku=BJR-5461&imgid=&mscssid=QN62JN2M2T159PWWDAHTRNJASPUQ90M6

[Twombles375]

http://www.okimiri.com/H14.10.28/40MM%20VEST-2.jpg
That there is the 90's Issued 40MM vest for Marine Grenadiers. It was also used by Rangers, and 10th MTN. units in OP: Gothic Serpent.

[Michael RVR]

In the movies I don't think you see the Marines. Just Rangers and Delta. But yes in the movie the Rangers where three colour BDUs, but they have six colour helmet covers :|.

http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/mout/somalia2.jpg
How come they look like their modeling for a catalouge? Especially the guy on the right. :lol:

Behold the power, of my Gardening Glove :lol:

[FozzieBear]

In the movies I don't think you see the Marines. Just Rangers and Delta. But yes in the movie the Rangers where three colour BDUs, but they have six colour helmet covers :|.

http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/mout/somalia2.jpg
How come they look like their modeling for a catalouge? Especially the guy on the right. :lol:

Behold the power, of my Gardening Glove :lol:i dont think they had nomex's SOLAG's or HELLSTORMS then mate ;) lol id think a gardening glove was quite a good rugged glove if you aint got any good ones (not too good for gun handling but thats why hes wearing one ;)

[digrar]

I've got a couple of sets in the bottom of my trunk. I only ever felt the need to wear them when digging in though.

[RFSU]

hell yeah! leather riggers gloves with a bit of spray paint go a long way. and for about 5 bucks they can't be beat. ;)

[James]

Early USMC units that were a part of Restore Hope wore chocolate chip BDUs. Marines who went ashore for United SHield in early 1995 wore tricolors. Some USMC units were still using Chocolate Chips as late as late 1997.

[PrincessRAR]

the ol' alice system (aka LBE or LCE) was better then most ppl give it credit for...its a helluva lot more comfortable in hot weather, more easy to adjust and loosen up, and so on

your not wrong taditional webbing on a harness is great - and not hot

[MarineGorbs]

Nikitaras OK. I found one picture of a Marine Fire Team Leader on www.bhd93.com and he has a grenadier´s vest you mentioned. That could counfirm your answer. Thanks.

Can anyone else confirm it?

And well - does anybody know what is the military specification of the mentioned vest? I mean the code XXXX-XX-XXX-XXXX (eg. 8470-01-092-8500 is a military specification code for PASGT helmet, Large).

I really don´t want to buy any "commercial" sh*t. Words "Original US Military grenade, brand new US GI production" don´t mean anything.

[Nikitaras]

Nikitaras OK. I found one picture of a Marine Fire Team Leader on www.bhd93.com and he has a grenadier´s vest you mentioned. That could counfirm your answer. Thanks.

Can anyone else confirm it?

And well - does anybody know what is the military specification of the mentioned vest? I mean the code XXXX-XX-XXX-XXXX (eg. 8470-01-092-8500 is a military specification code for PASGT helmet, Large).

I really don´t want to buy any "commercial" sh*t. Words "Original US Military grenade, brand new US GI production" don´t mean anything.

The vest pictured above by USMC0300 is the exact same one TL's were issued.

[Nikitaras]

In the movies I don't think you see the Marines. Just Rangers and Delta. But yes in the movie the Rangers where three colour BDUs, but they have six colour helmet covers :|.

http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/mout/somalia2.jpg
How come they look like their modeling for a catalouge? Especially the guy on the right. :lol:

Behold the power, of my Gardening Glove :lol:

Those gloves are for moving concertina wire. We had a big boxful in our company for whenever wire had to be set up. Some were plain with the metal staples in the palms and others had some funky looking blue and purple colors on them. They worked much better than the issued black gloves when handling wire.

[Twombles375]

yeah, they couldve atleast put some alice belt attachments on the lower part of the 40MM vest, much like the LBV.

[maceek1]

Hey, all. Don't mean to drag a post from the grave but I thought I'd shed some light as far as gear we used. I was in Mogadishu and Baidoa w/ Lima 3/9 during Restore Hope. We had the standard ALICE 782 gear. We didn't have LBVs yet. In fact I think they were starting to roll into our supply when I was getting out in late '94.
My set-up was the following:

M56 h-harness (my own, as I hate y-straps)
pistol belt
x2 M16 mag pouches
x7 M16 magazines, 30rnd, w/ 140rnds 5.56mm (we had a round count EVERY morning)
M56 buttpack (my own)
x2 canteens w/ covers
first aid/compass pouch
first aid kit (attached to the carry strap on my buttpack)
M17 gas mask w/ carrier
Ek Commando knife (my own, inverted on my h-harness)

Our weapon "speed" slings were much like the ones seen in BHD, modified w/ 550 cord for length. We were told to fix them in this fashion for personal safety while on check point duty or duties around the indigenous population.
As far as clothing/camo items we had the following:

x2 chocolate chip uniform (no US flag patch)
1 set of pink panthers (3-color)
x2 chocolate chip boonies
desert boots
chocolate chip flak cover
chocolate chip k-pot cover

We were only issued one set of the pink panthers, IIRC, because we had a very limited supply of them. We had to iron-on EG&A and USMC to the pockets of the utility tops, and an EG&A to the front of the helmet cover. Hope this helped a little.

[Jarhead]

Great first post and welcome on board Marine.

[California Joe]

Holy Christ, a thread resurrection that is actually relevant. :) This may be a first here.

Welcome aboard maceek1.

[Bulletproof]

Thanks for the post and welcome maceek1, you pretty much answer everything :D

[JC0352]

Welcome maceek1! Semper Fi

[...WARLORD...]

One guy also had a M249 SAW. Thats one of my Favorite guns, dispite its unaccuracy :lol:

[KEEPER0311]

One guy also had a M249 SAW. Thats one of my Favorite guns, dispite its unaccuracy :lol:

Have you humped with a SAW...then come back and tell us :)

Welcome aboard maceek1. Old breed lives on.

[maceek1]

Thanks for the warm welcome--I'm all fuzzy inside :p

I stumbled upon this post after looking for Somalia pics to show my daughter what it looked like. I never took pics myself because I told myself I'd never want to remember a place like that. Only now I kick myself in the ass because I didn't--you know how it goes. The only things I have are a few Somali shillings (100 spots), an air-drop leaflet and my rules of engagement card.
This pic in particular is the one that caught my eye when I was searching:

http://www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/mout/somalia1.jpg

I think these are guys from my company, one of the line platoons judging by the SAW gunner. The pointman looks very familiar (names escape me these days). My company had a photo spread in an issue of TIME magazine (an element from our platoon missed the photo op while doing search and seizure). The only pic of myself is floating around somewhere in the world.
A freelance photographer took a pic of my booted foot next to a small human skull in Baidoa :p.

[...WARLORD...]

Have you humped with a SAW...then come back and tell us :)
Dont get me wrong, I love the SAW, but then again, i probably havent seen it in good action! :)

[KEEPER0311]

Point man up there has a hump face on...lol.


Warlord: The saw is cool for a while...then you have to carry it...clean it...carry it...and carry it. It gets heavy and old quick. Sure lighting off 200 rounds down range is awesome but so is not having to carry the bitch.

[...WARLORD...]

yeah, it must be, I can only imagine running around with that beast all day, in the sun, with the possiblity of getting shot!
Some how the M16 is sounding better...:lol:

[maceek1]

Ha. A little story about SAWs.
We spent the first couple weeks in country at the airport in Mogadishu. Our company was set up at the take-off point of the runway. I can never forget that as we were awaken at all hours of the night by pleasant dust storms whenever the C-5As or the C-141s took off :)
We had fighting positions along the wall that separated the city from the airport/seaside, and every night a different squad pulled firewatch. One night, during the first week, a squad leader left his hole to check his squad in the other positions. Either he didn't care to or didn't want to, he left his SAW gunner alone--and asleep--in his hole. He returned about 10 minutes later to find the guy still asleep in his hole--but missing his SAW.
It was determined that it was indeed stolen and the squad leader was given office hours and lost rank. I don't think anything happened to the lance corporal--luckily he wasn't killed--and our newly appointed CO was relieved of his command. I remember our first sergeant reaming the whole company's ass because of what happened.

[KEEPER0311]

LMFAO! Wow..."Ummm Cpl my SAW is gone...I looked everywhere and I just can't find it..." Well the Squad leader must have gotten more then office hours...a good ass whooping.

[Crewdog]

Ha. A little story about SAWs.
We spent the first couple weeks in country at the airport in Mogadishu. Our company was set up at the take-off point of the runway. I can never forget that as we were awaken at all hours of the night by pleasant dust storms whenever the C-5As or the C-141s took off :)
We had fighting positions along the wall that separated the city from the airport/seaside, and every night a different squad pulled firewatch. One night, during the first week, a squad leader left his hole to check his squad in the other positions. Either he didn't care to or didn't want to, he left his SAW gunner alone--and asleep--in his hole. He returned about 10 minutes later to find the guy still asleep in his hole--but missing his SAW.
It was determined that it was indeed stolen and the squad leader was given office hours and lost rank. I don't think anything happened to the lance corporal--luckily he wasn't killed--and our newly appointed CO was relieved of his command. I remember our first sergeant reaming the whole company's ass because of what happened.


Your welcome! http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d59/crewdog9023/anim_beer.gif

I did a bit of flying into and out of that crap hole of a country.

[maceek1]

rofl

The best incident was when we came back to tent city in Mog and finally got cleaned up for the flight back home. We had to take a 5-ton to the shower point which took us around the start of the runway. We cleaned up, had on fresh camies and got back on the truck. On our way back to our hootches, a plane was waiting to take off. Instead of waiting for it to take off the driver decided to go around while the plane's engines were kicking up a good cloud of dust.
We must have shouted every name in the book at that truck driver:-P

[StuRat]

We had fighting positions along the wall that separated the city from the airport/seaside, and every night a different squad pulled firewatch. One night, during the first week, a squad leader left his hole to check his squad in the other positions. Either he didn't care to or didn't want to, he left his SAW gunner alone--and asleep--in his hole. He returned about 10 minutes later to find the guy still asleep in his hole--but missing his SAW.
It was determined that it was indeed stolen and the squad leader was given office hours and lost rank. I don't think anything happened to the lance corporal--luckily he wasn't killed--and our newly appointed CO was relieved of his command. I remember our first sergeant reaming the whole company's ass because of what happened.

And to think we were worried about losing the $100 Minimi tool at basic training :)

[JC0352]

Going back to the SAW, my favorite part was putting that thing in the sleeping bag along with an M9... good times

[KEEPER0311]

LMAO! Always loved seeing the poor gunners try to sleep with that hog in bag.:)

[...WARLORD...]

I dont know how you could even sleep! :lol:
I'd probably sleep with one eye open!