SA Machal in 1948 Israeli War of Independence

[Rudolph]

Okay, I'm not Jewish or anything, but I looked at the US/Israeli thread and during the war the majority of volunteers seem to be have been South Africans. According to this (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu5zOYHlH_i0BFvJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTFiZThvY3RrBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA01BUDAwNl8xMDIEbANXUzE-/SIG=121vvtdi2/EXP=1199223374/**http%3a//www.sas.upenn.edu/~sklausne/Fall02.pdf) article 845 served - another 3,000 were trained - making out just under 25% of the 3,500 international volunteers. It also says that the FBI was not happy with Jews doing service, while the then SA government didn't mind. Did the autorities in other countries simply stop people from helping out?

Here's a nice article (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu857YXlHkD4AOc9XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTFiZnR2Z3A0BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA01BUDAwNl8xMDIEbANXUzE-/SIG=11t7m7i8n/EXP=1199223547/**http%3a//www.mahal2000.com/about/Machal.pdf) on the Machal and what they did.

Also, more recently, one of my friends here said it's quite common for South African Jews to do IDF service when turning 18. Can anyone confirm this? Our ANC government is pretty anti-Israel, so I was wondering if they are having problems still doing this?

I've been feeling very nationalistic lately, therefore all the pro-SA posts; all pre-'94 stuff of course. ;)

[Ironsight06]

Also, more recently, one of my friends here said it's quite common for South African Jews to do IDF service when turning 18. Can anyone confirm this? Our ANC government is pretty anti-Israel, so I was wondering if they are having problems still doing this?
It's not exclusive for SA. I know some Dutch Jews who also did service in the IDF.

[ase290406]

Well it's entirely possible. I've heard of an entire French speaking brigade operating in the Negev in 1948.

[Rudolph]

Well it's entirely possible. I've heard of an entire French speaking brigade operating in the Negev in 1948.

I guess when your culture needs to survive, you serve the cause no matter where you find yourself... My mom's nephew is actually a WW2 Jewish orphan who survived the camps. Had dinner with him last week. I don't even wanna hear the stories, but he spoke a bit about it last week, and I was actually angry at my dad for going on about WW2 (one of his fav subjects). He remembers his mom being wrapped in a towl and taken away, and his home just a piece of rubble, bad stuff.

[baboon6]

I've known some South African Jews who have served in the IDF but they are mostly (but not all) folks who have actually emigrated to Israel on a permanent basis. I wouldn't say it's "fairly common".

My great-uncle, a Dakota pilot in the SA Air Force in WW2, served in the Israeli Air Force in the 1948 war. Some of his missions involved throwing hand grenades at the Egyptians out of a Piper Cub! After the war he returned to SA and became a travel agent , sadly died about 20 years ago.

[tanks_alot]

Also, more recently, one of my friends here said it's quite common for South African Jews to do IDF service when turning 18. Can anyone confirm this? Our ANC government is pretty anti-Israel, so I was wondering if they are having problems still doing this?


All foreign jews - men between the ages of 18 to 23 and women between the ages of 18 to 22, can volunteer into the IDF through the Mahal2000 (http://www.mahal2000.com/) progrem.

[Rudolph]

Think baboon is right about them becoming Israeli citizens. Our Jewish population shrunk from 120,000 to around 40,000, and the government responded to some Arab report about SA mercenaries working for Israel that the only South Africans fighting for Israel are South Africans who emmigrated to Israel. All pretty interesting...

[baboon6]

Well it's entirely possible. I've heard of an entire French speaking brigade operating in the Negev in 1948.

According to the pdf Rudolph linked to it was only a French commando company in the Negev Brigade.

[Kaplanr]

First of all, especially during the War of Independence, formations like brigade and battalion were thrown around pretty loosely and often didn't have a bearing on what their true sizes were. A brigade was more likely a reinforced company or two.

As for the South Africans, the SA Jewish community has always been very tight-knit and very Zionist, as well as fairly liberal. From what I understood, it historically was usually on the English side of Afrikaans-English divide culturally. Taking into account the time and place, Smuts was pro-Zionist and transparent in supporting the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine. THe Soiuth African Jews had both the resources and the military experience to contribute.

The whole Mahal history is fascinating. There were the Jews who had an emotional or ideological reason, and the non-Jews who had some of the same, or who at least supported the cause, and a handful who just wanted a good fight. More swashbucklers than mercenary - though there were those too I'm sure. The Canadians also contributed, most prominently Ben Dunkelman who helped write doctrine for the armored units.

The idea of the French or Russian companies was to supposedly ease communications wthin the units themselves. Until the 50s, the AF relied on English until the first Sabra cadres started forming; same thing in the navy.

About a 1/3 of the immigrants I was with were South African born.

[ase290406]

I'll tell you this, during my IDF service I served in the GADNA program (Youth battalions). And the most "Mur'alim" (Motivated) teens were the ones from abroad. I met some great guys & girls who I "commanded" as it was my role. A regular Israeli teenager thinks at least once about avoiding the draft. For them it was something bigger than life, and those were the overwhelming majority of the "foreign" Jewish teenagers.

P.S- GADNA is about giving the trainees a +- week of an "IDF expirience". Think boyscouts with M-16's (On a firing range not on everyday basis) facing a real draft a year ahead. And for most of the diaspora Jews a hell of a lot of motivation.

[johanness]

Sorry, don't want to be off topic or want to offend somebody....

Were there any ex-Wehrmacht soldiers in the IDF?
As far as I know, about 160.000 soldiers of the Wehrmacht had some jewish origin ( up to field-marshall ).

Also I would be interested when the first military help from Germany arrived.

Would be great to get some answers, 'cause I didn't find something (i-net or books).

Thanks.

[LRPV]

Sorry, don't want to be off topic or want to offend somebody....

Were there any ex-Wehrmacht soldiers in the IDF?
As far as I know, about 160.000 soldiers of the Wehrmacht had some jewish origin ( up to field-marshall ).

Also I would be interested when the first military help from Germany arrived.

Would be great to get some answers, 'cause I didn't find something (i-net or books).

Thanks.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?p=83253&highlight=europa

I have no idea of the reliability of the information, but it is a start for further research.

[tanks_alot]

Were there any ex-Wehrmacht soldiers in the IDF?
As far as I know, about 160.000 soldiers of the Wehrmacht had some jewish origin ( up to field-marshall ).

Many of these soldiers were only Jewish according to the German race laws, although i don't know if any later joined the IDF, i guess they would have been treated like the Capos.


Also I would be interested when the first military help from Germany arrived.


I don't know about military help, but the reparations agreement between Israel and west Germany was signed in 1952 and over the course of a dozen years, Germany had paid Israel 3 billion Marks.
that money was quite essential for Israel's future, as the country was still recovering from the 1948/9 Independence war and was trying to assimilate large numbers of immigrants with not so good financial situation, so the economical situation was rather bad.

Despite that, there was a strong public resistance to accepting the reparations in Israel, with violent mass rallies, but in the end the government took the practical approach over the emotional one.