Does canadian army use LSW(Colt Canada)?

[drake247]

I was just wondering if canada uses the LSW made by Colt Canada. I know that Denmark and Netherlands use it but i haven't seen a pic of a canadian soldier with it yet.

LSW:
http://www.coltcanada.com/photogallery/cc-lsw-afghan.jpg

Danish soldier with LSW(C-Mag):
http://www.coltcanada.com/photogallery/cc-lsw-fire.jpg

Dutch soldier with LSW:
http://www.coltcanada.com/photogallery/cc-NLmarine_1.jpg

all pics are from Colt Canada website.

[Pete031]

Nope..... We use the C9 Minimi for a LMG.

[boone]

beat by Pete.

[Pete031]

Boo Yaaaaa



This is an older picture of the C9A1, which is in the process od being replaced by the A2, which has a shorter barrel and teliscopic butt.

[drake247]

But don't Denmark and Netherlands use the C9 too? or something like it?

[Pete031]

I'm not sure. A typical Canadian infantry section has two C9's in it. Making up for 60% of the sections firepower. With the added 203's and M72's, I don't see why we would need a LSW like the Diemaco one. Now, if we had a DM rifle, that would be a different story.

[drake247]

ya i understand that. i was just curious why those 2 countries would use them.

[Pete031]

Maybe, they got a good deal on them from Diemaco, when purchasing their C7/C8's. Who knows. Mag fed LMG's are a stupid idea in my opinion.

[drake247]

i agree. thanks for the quick replies.

[digrar]

In the mid 90's I did an exchange in Brunei and they were using an m16 A2 with bipod and heavy barrel. They were only little fellas, I don't know if that was a factor in them not using something more substantial or not.

[Pete031]

In the mid 90's I did an exchange in Brunei and they were using an m16 A2 with bipod and heavy barrel. They were only little fellas, I don't know if that was a factor in them not using something more substantial or not.

Some will argue, that mag fed weapons are better for Jungle, or generally wet and muddy enviroments. And there is a point to be had with that. But as you know the minimi is belt and mag fed.
Proper care and maintenace, will keep the guns running anyway.

[digrar]

Never saw much/any firing done with a mag feed on a minimi, however I have heard bad things....
I think the cloth mags on the c9/f89/minimi go a long way to making it a better weapon in close country, no loose link getting caught on everything and not getting clogged up with detritus.

[Pete031]

Never saw much/any firing done with a mag feed on a minimi, however I have heard bad things....
I think the cloth mags on the c9/f89/minimi go a long way to making it a better weapon in close country, no loose link getting caught on everything and not getting clogged up with detritus.


Yeah, the cloth mag pouches are great. We actually used the AUSCAM ones for the longest time.
Mag firing is hit or miss. It's not bad live. With blanks you may as well forget about it.
I wish they had some sort of rig for the gpmg in the light role.

[digrar]

I wish they had some sort of rig for the gpmg in the light role.

Are you talking like a 50 rnd cloth pouch?

[Pete031]

Well maybe more then a teaser belt. Enough to win a fire fight or break contact without having to reload. Maybe a 100 round bag or something.

[digrar]

I was going to say 100, then thought about the weight.

[Pete031]

Well, your going to have to carry the ammo some how anyway. Might aswell have it on the gun.

[Birger]

All I can say is: Theyre no freaking support weapons, no matter what they try to tell us, and they must be cheap as hell, as thats the only positive thing I can possibly think of about them..

[-[Crosshair]-]

I'm glad we don't have those LSWs, the C9s are my favourite weapons in the forces.

[Niels]

But don't Denmark and Netherlands use the C9 too? or something like it?
Only the Royal Netherlands Marine Corps uses the LSW, the army uses the Minimi. I don't know why, though.

[Dispatcher]

Only the Royal Netherlands Marine Corps uses the LSW, the army uses the Minimi. I don't know why, though.


I cant for the live of me think of a good reason. I have fired the LSW once on the safe environment of a range. I wasnt impressed.

Minimi takes the cake in this debate imho.

[Birger]

Well you can put it like this: You get the performance of a C7, with pretty much the weight of a minimi. Ok, probably the price of a LSW is something like half that of a C7 because most militaries can see the idiocy in buying it, but, hey its CHEAP and it says SUPPORT. Great, thats just what we need. Especially after pretty much every country we're fighting alongside has trialled the idea of an assault rifle-based support weapon, and failed it. (L86 LSW fx)

[SMGLee]

Candian C9

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/C9.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/huge/C9%20feed%20cover.jpg

I am sure that Diemaco is no longer making the FN Minimi/C9 under licenses for the Canadian Armed Forces since it was sold to Colt and now is under the Colt Canada name plate.

[Pete031]

I don't think any of our C9's are from Diemaco. All of our C9's and C6's are straight from Herstal Belgium. Directly from Fabrique Nationale.
Unless something has changed.

[flanker7]

In the photos posted by SMGLee I see the FN trademark logo, so...

[Roy Batty]

As I understood it. Diemaco did some maintenance/repair work for the CF on the C9s but that they were produced by FN.





I could be wrong though....i'm just the dude with the "please shoot here" antenna ;)

[Pete031]

As I understood it. Diemaco did some maintenance/repair work for the CF on the C9s but that they were produced by FN.





I could be wrong though....i'm just the dude with the "please shoot here" antenna ;)

Yeah, thats the impression I am under.

[SMGLee]

As I understood it. Diemaco did some maintenance/repair work for the CF on the C9s but that they were produced by FN.





I could be wrong though....i'm just the dude with the "please shoot here" antenna ;)

Not sure what was the arrangements, but when Colt bought Diemaco, FN pulled all the necessary TDP and machinery from Diemaco prior to Colt received Diemaco.

I am still not sure who is the owner of that very nice cold hammer forged machinery. I was under the impression that this machine was partly owned by the gov't.

[Roy Batty]

Not sure what was the arrangements, but when Colt bought Diemaco, FN pulled all the necessary TDP and machinery from Diemaco prior to Colt received Diemaco.

I am still not sure who is the owner of that very nice cold hammer forged machinery. I was under the impression that this machine was partly owned by the gov't.

I was under the impression that it was completely owned by the Government of Canada. Looking for conformation right now....



edit. A source I trust says that the barrel machines are owned by the GoC....


Some interesting talk about it here: http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,28664.msg642293.html#msg642293

They are also saying that the C9A2 project is dead due to the sale of Diemaco to Colt. FN will no longer allow work on our C9s!?!?!?

[SMGLee]

I was under the impression that the gov't own the barrel machine with some sort of a lease program to diemaco.

I also know that the FN pull the TDP and all related machine for the C9 and Diemaco/Colt Canada is no longer making, or repairing the platform, I did not know that all C9 related work are to be transfer directly back to FN in Blegium.

interesting link, thanks SIG...

[drake247]

I knew that C9s were made by FN but i didnt know that we wernt allowed to work on them...

[Roy Batty]

Our weapons techs can work on them but for major work they used to go to Diemaco. Now that Colt took over Diemaco they have to go back to FN for any major work.

[drake247]

Colt Canada cant get license to build them?

[Roy Batty]

Colt and FN are major competitors..........so I doubt it.

[drake247]

hmmm didn't know that... thanks for the info sig

[Seven81]

I cant for the live of me think of a good reason. I have fired the LSW once on the safe environment of a range. I wasnt impressed.

Minimi takes the cake in this debate imho.

The Royal Netherlands Marine Corps use two LSW's and one MAG/GPMG/C6 per section. I suppose the GPMG makes up for the lack of fire power (and mag capacity) of the LSW. I know the Marines really regret not having bought the Minimi (C9). The only explanation I can think of is that the Dutch Marine Corps is closely related to its British counterpart. I believe the British also use two LSWs (the SA80 variant) and a GPMG per section in the Royal Marines. I have heard some talk of acquiring high capacity magazines for the LSW's (they now use the regular 30-round mags), not sure if that's true though. No offense to you Canadians, but the Diemaco LSW is a piece of crap in my opinion.

[darmil]

I would agree that the LMG mag fed is a stupid idea when you need firepower for a tic the mag feed is not the way to go.I love the c9 i was a gunner on this roto work up to A stan now im a rifle RWS gunner now.you can hurt alot of bad guys with that 200 round belt.

[SMGLee]

I would agree that the LMG mag fed is a stupid idea when you need firepower for a tic the mag feed is not the way to go.I love the c9 i was a gunner on this roto work up to A stan now im a rifle RWS gunner now.you can hurt alot of bad guys with that 200 round belt.

Colt worked on a LE1020 sytle IAR, piston driven, heavy quick change barrel....

fed off a modified c-mag........

[baboon6]

The Royal Netherlands Marine Corps use two LSW's and one MAG/GPMG/C6 per section. I suppose the GPMG makes up for the lack of fire power (and mag capacity) of the LSW. I know the Marines really regret not having bought the Minimi (C9). The only explanation I can think of is that the Dutch Marine Corps is closely related to its British counterpart. I believe the British also use two LSWs (the SA80 variant) and a GPMG per section in the Royal Marines. I have heard some talk of acquiring high capacity magazines for the LSW's (they now use the regular 30-round mags), not sure if that's true though. No offense to you Canadians, but the Diemaco LSW is a piece of crap in my opinion.

AFAIK the Royal Marines rifle section is the same as the British Army one and has two SA80 LSWs and two Minimis. There is one GPMG in each close combat troop (rifle platoon) HQ. Army units in Afghanistan have sometimes modified this organisation and brought GPMGs down to section level again.

[darmil]

I do like the way the C9A2 looks it's slick.Excellant for moving in and out of gun trucks.

[Roy Batty]

Not sure what is in store for the C9A2 project though. Diemaco closing has messed with it a bit I think.

[Fallap]

Diemaco LSW or NSW (No Support Weapon) is a uselelss piece of ****

[Roy Batty]

Diemaco LSW or NSW (No Support Weapon) is a uselelss piece of ****

While I agree (we have already pretty much determined that mag fed support weapons suck), I would like to hear how much personal experiance you have with it.

EG. How many rounds? Under what conditions? ect.

[Fallap]

Have a friend who returned from his concription last year. He was assigned the LSW during a couple of patrols and maneuvers etc. His comment was that it looked silly and was rather uneeded. I dont know the exact amount of rounds he fired, but probably alot :)