The Russian government is looking to create a Cyrillic internet

[2RHPZ]

Kremlin eyes internet control ...

The Russian government is looking to create a Cyrillic internet, but is it just another case of Big Brother controlling its citizens?

Gavin Knight

The Guardian, Thursday January 3 2008

Link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jan/03/internet.censorship)

[dimasorokine]

Aside from security, I don't see any advantages of this - but there are some big disadvantages. Bad idea IMO.

-Dima

[asch]

old news. in 2010, afaik, we will have first cyrillic domain names here.

p.s. the respectable Guardian is full of bullshyte, as usual.

[2RHPZ]

In 2010, afaik, we will have first cyrillic domain names here.

Congratulation...

[Basillicus]

Pretty worthess idea. There are so few people who use Cyrillic that the amount of content wouldn't ever be even remotely comparable with this current Internet.

[Switek]

Pretty worthess idea. There are so few people who use Cyrillic that the amount of content wouldn't ever be even remotely comparable with this current Internet.

Nope. It's long term investment. Becouse of the relatively low knowledge rate of Russian language there will not be an exchange of information and ideas between majority of Russians an the rest of the world. It's another big step toward selfisoation of Russians but their government should be happy.

[Mamont]

Oh, man.. Evil russian goverment again.. Switek, you have to stop smoking weed or whatever brings those illusions into your head. Already hundreds of domains are named with russian words using english alphabet, which in many cases looks plain ridiculous. Creating the possibility to use cyrillic is a way to simplify and ease the use of internet for russians, no to mention that cyrillic alphabet would be used along with english one, not replacing it.

[103]

Pretty worthess idea. There are so few people who use Cyrillic that the amount of content wouldn't ever be even remotely comparable with this current Internet.
I totally disagree. I use Cyrillic and I like it, it is so well suited for our language.

[ChinaCat]

Kremlin eyes internet control ...

The Russian government is looking to create a Cyrillic internet, but is it just another case of Big Brother controlling its citizens?

Gavin Knight

The Guardian, Thursday January 3 2008

Link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jan/03/internet.censorship)

totally disagree,

Kremlin eyes internet control don't base on Cyrillic internet,it's valuable for their people.

[Switek]

@ Mamont I did exaggerated. With the begining of new year I had an eneormous desire to be myself. ;)

[Herrmannek]

Domain names in international Unicode are used and abused for quite long time now, localized HTML even more, same goes for everything else... Only thing Russians could do to make network even more Russian would be starting their own independent network. Call it Ruknet, Standardize one Russian byte as a 13bits, make RP(as in Ruknet Protocol) addresses be coded with open text in roman numbers. Simply put article is BS.

[Mamont]

With the begining of new year I had an eneormous desire to be myself. ;)Ha, you got me there :)

[Sergei]

Oh, man.. Evil russian goverment again.. Switek, you have to stop smoking weed or whatever brings those illusions into your head. Already hundreds of domains are named with russian words using english alphabet, which in many cases looks plain ridiculous. Creating the possibility to use cyrillic is a way to simplify and ease the use of internet for russians, no to mention that cyrillic alphabet would be used along with english one, not replacing it.

I would have to disagree with you.

The domains like
www.mozgov.net
or
www.sisek.net
may sound very ridiculuos for the average western guy but not for the guy who knows cyrillics. :)

[Angrykirill]

Domain names in international Unicode are used and abused for quite long time now, localized HTML even more, same goes for everything else... Only thing Russians could do to make network even more Russian would be starting their own independent network. Call it Ruknet, Standardize one Russian byte as a 13bits, make RP(as in Ruknet Protocol) addresses be coded with open text in roman numbers. Simply put article is BS.

Article isn't bull**** - I can't deny that some jack**** will attempt to do this, but what you're saying is correct though.

by the way the only thing i heard recently is a .rf domain (to supply .ru and .su (latter is great))

[2RHPZ]

The key word is not the cyrilic; it´s the server. Pay attention to:


A tale of two servers

The key is whether Russian international domain names would use their own root servers - which decide where to route your internet requests - independent of the existing internet root servers which are mainly based in the US.

Some of you may be familiar with what I mean.

[asch]

so basically you can choose to get English name and being routed in US or get a Cyrillic one and being routed in Russia?


hmmm...

ok for me.

[2RHPZ]

so basically you can choose to get English name and being routed in US or get a Cyrillic one and being routed in Russia?


hmmm...

ok for me.

As I said, it´s not about an alphabet. Sorry, I don´t want to elaborate on this here.

[Basillicus]

I've been trying to figure out what the deal with this.

So, if I understood correctly, currently people using cyrillic write the address in e.g. their web browser with cyrillic aphabet but it is transformed into latin alphabet and then the procedure goes as usual with DNS. Is this correct?

Now with this new method that address written in cyrillic would not be transformed into latin alphabets, but instead the browser would use some new and different domain name protocol like the DNS currently used, but which natively uses cyrillic alphabets? Then the question is how to select which domain name system to use, because if only this cyrillic system is used there's no way to access servers of the current Internet.

[asch]

I've been trying to figure out what the deal with this.

So, if I understood correctly, currently people using cyrillic write the address in e.g. their web browser with cyrillic aphabet but it is transformed into latin alphabet and then the procedure goes as usual with DNS. Is this correct?

nope. addresses in Cyrillic is not implemented. only in English. but we'll have Cyrillic names soon, so we can make some sort of Cyrillic inet.

[peterli]

bizarre russian, always think that all the world are against it. it's needless

[Basillicus]

nope. addresses in Cyrillic is not implemented. only in English.

So do you have to change the keyboard layout every time you write an address or how does it work?

[Flamming_Python]

Once again another thread full of the usual suspects, few of whom know what they are talking about.

FYI, there was recently progress which enabled non-ASCII character sets (i.e. foreign alphabets) to be used in URL's. The idea has been around for a while, but was formally implemented only 2-3 years ago, and only really put into operation in the last few months.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalized_domain_name

Here is an example of an address in the Greek character set:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/IDN-utopia-greek.jpg
(OMG th0se ev1l GREeks! Hellenic World Order! THIS... IS... SPARTAAAAA!!!!)

This decision had nothing to do with the Russian government, although of course this government, along with all the others, is now looking into it and the process of localising country-level domains into the local script (in Russia's case, .рф in addition to the Latin-based .ru)

So now we will soon witness web site adressess in Arabic, Hindi, Mandarin Chinese, Persian, etc... In addition to the Cyrillic URL's in question and the already existing Latin-based URL's.

Not that those idiots at the Guardian know any better...

[Herrmannek]

I use polish domain names for few years now... All major browsers can use that for the said 2 or 3 years.. And hell no one forces you to use any particular protocol to resolve names... You can write your own if you wish...

Now only Way Russians could harm access to the Internet would be routing IP packets addressed to authentic root DNS servers onto Russian fake servers giving wrong answers. But you don't need to use root DNS server to resolve names anyway. So ban to be effective would mean Russians would have to reroute all Russia outgoing IP packages to fake computers. This would effectively mean Russians created their own totally new network, although it would be still based on Internet Protocol. Anyone suggesting Russians will do that is ridiculous. I like to bash Russia's Soviet Sentiments but on this I must defend sanity :)

BTW I don't see nothing wrong in localized domain names. Maybe except it will be hard to use them in convenient fashion, plus there is serious security risk coming with it...

[Riker]

Is there a end to Russian paranoia? Ever?

[asch]

Is there a end to Russian paranoia? Ever?
your contribution to this discussion is priceless. don't let the door to hit you in the back.
only paranoidal thing i found is "omg, evil russkies trying to make internets that can be hard to control, how dare they!" to put it simple, sometimes it better to make your mouth busy with chips not talks.
read Flamming_Python and Hermannek comments and make yer brain work, please, hence saving other members time.

to topic:
Basillicus, yes, only in English layout.and i must say that using of Cyrillic alphabet will make Russian internet much larger and attract much wider segment of population than we have now. how is this good, i think anybody can calculate for themselves.

[Lokos]

Some of you people, in all seriousness, are hopeless.

Lokos

[oldsoak]

If it brings the internet and access to information to more people in Russia then good luck to them. The easier access to information and expression that a society has, the more stimulating and creative it becomes.

[Riker]

your contribution to this discussion is priceless. don't let the door to hit you in the back.
only paranoidal thing i found is "omg, evil russkies trying to make internets that can be hard to control, how dare they!" to put it simple, sometimes it better to make your mouth busy with chips not talks.
read Flamming_Python and Hermannek comments and make yer brain work, please, hence saving other members time.

to topic:
Basillicus, yes, only in English layout.and i must say that using of Cyrillic alphabet will make Russian internet much larger and attract much wider segment of population than we have now. how is this good, i think anybody can calculate for themselves.

Well excuse me, private Ash...

I lurk this forum often, I tend not to get into discussions.

Two reasons.

One - I aint a soldier, I'm just interested in that matter. So I watch and learn.

Two - the only field I could speak on is Croatian Independece War. But - since the axis of our "fellow" neighbours is wide spread even here, I don't have the nerves to even try to answer or comment at any of the same old same old I read here about matter of that war.

But that may be a stranger to you since you don't live here so you don't have to hear those same blabs they rant over and over (and over) again.

Anyways, my comment on this russian internet is well, the best I could do.

Why?

Well, knowing the Russian inferiority complex that's going on for some time now (50 years), I opened this topic.

Because I didn't quite understand the "russian internet" thing.

Why?

Well - does any other country have their own internet? Do slavic countries have domain names letters ČĆŠĐŽ ?

No? Why?! Are we not worthy of it?

Wait! Germany! Oh yes - can I go to www.münchen.com?

Nope. But I CAN go to www.muenchen.com

Do I need to put in more examples?

I think not. So to continue in justifying my awful post, I would say that since internet is indeed just ONE OF the mediums in the world, and knowing that it's FREE, it's hell of a lot easier to control such a thing with some standards.

And there we have it. Standard. Am I guitly for a fact that english is world standard language of communication?

Well ban me if I am. I find english as my other language. I speak it as I speak croatian. And I dind't go to any english school whatsoever.

So, could I ask a question in this extra long post of mine - what are the benefit for this internety russya?

Can they use charsets? Or isn't that enough?

I'm stating my opinion here, and well, ok I might have sounded a bit pale in the first post here but all I'm tryin to say is - unnecessary and utter laugh.

Хаве а нице даy.

[asch]

Anyways, my comment on this russian internet is well, the best I could do.

Why?

Well, knowing the Russian inferiority complex that's going on for some time now (50 years), I opened this topic.
let's discuss this matter more closer. i never suggest that i have some "complex" based on my nationality.
can you care to elaborate?


Because I didn't quite understand the "russian internet" thing.

Why?

Well - does any other country have their own internet? Do slavic countries have domain names letters ????? ?

No? Why?! Are we not worthy of it?

Wait! Germany! Oh yes - can I go to www.münchen.com?

Nope. But I CAN go to www.muenchen.com

Do I need to put in more examples?
what about arabnet? what about example provided by Hermannek and Flamming_Python early in this thread?


So to continue in justifying my awful post, I would say that since internet is indeed just ONE OF the mediums in the world, and knowing that it's FREE, it's hell of a lot easier to control such a thing with some standards.

And there we have it. Standard. Am I guitly for a fact that english is world standard language of communication?

Well ban me if I am. I find english as my other language. I speak it as I speak croatian. And I dind't go to any english school whatsoever.
and how this is relevant to our discussion?

So, could I ask a question in this extra long post of mine - what are the benefit for this internety russya?

Can they use charsets? Or isn't that enough?

I'm stating my opinion here, and well, ok I might have sounded a bit pale in the first post here but all I'm tryin to say is - unnecessary and utter laugh.
it's simple. we had a very dark period in the past, chaos at most levels, so now population is generally less educated and less capable than, for example, in SU times. and Internet is the main and most effective tool to gather and process information. so by creation of Cyrillic net we can hope to attract social groups that previously don't have a reasons nor abilities to operate this wonderful tool.

???? ? ???? ??y.

actually it must be "??? ? ???? ???", so you can see difficulties in transliterations.


edit: sorry, don't have correct working browser for now, so all this transliteration issues aside.