Casualties among Private Military Contractors?

[Thor]

Does anyone have information regarding how many contractors that are killed or wounded in Iraq?

[Argyll]

Why do you ask?

[Mr. Nielsen]

To gauge the going of the conflict I suppose.

If coalition casualties are low, one might get the the idea that things are going just fine. But what if the numbers are low, because Private Military Contractors are getting killed instead?


Low coalition casualties are of course not a guaratee for success.

[Argyll]

To gauge the going of the conflict I suppose.

If coalition casualties are low, one might get the the idea that things are going just fine. But what if the numbers are low, because Private Military Contractors are getting killed instead?


Low coalition casualties are of course not a guaratee for success.

and how do the deaths of these PMC's effect the state of conflict?

They're not even linked to Military Operations

[moughoun]

To gauge the going of the conflict I suppose.

If coalition casualties are low, one might get the the idea that things are going just fine. But what if the numbers are low, because Private Military Contractors are getting killed instead?


Low coalition casualties are of course not a guaratee for success.

and how do the deaths of these PMC's effect the state of conflict?

They're not even linked to Military Operations

I think you might of partially answerd the question there Arg,since most of the pmc's are staffed by ex service men, like your self, and their casualtie figures aren't releasd, we don't know how many have been killed or wounded which if was on the heavy side might put more pressure on the western government's, particulary if those men were westerner's

[n4292936]

In so far as they represent a security force working on behalf of the coalition or groups (be they NGOs or corporate) affiliated with it then they are related to the ongoing conflict. It is a relevant and interesting question. Does anyone have an answer?

[Mr. Nielsen]

and how do the deaths of these PMC's effect the state of conflict?

They're not even linked to Military Operations

I'm under the impression that PMC's are performing jobs that would otherwise have had to be done by coalition forces.

[Argyll]

To gauge the going of the conflict I suppose.

If coalition casualties are low, one might get the the idea that things are going just fine. But what if the numbers are low, because Private Military Contractors are getting killed instead?


Low coalition casualties are of course not a guaratee for success.

and how do the deaths of these PMC's effect the state of conflict?

They're not even linked to Military Operations

I think you might of partially answerd the question there Arg,since most of the pmc's are staffed by ex service men, like your self, and their casualtie figures aren't releasd, we don't know how many have been killed or wounded which if was on the heavy side might put more pressure on the western government's, particulary if those men were westerner's

It wouldn't put any pressure whatsoever on their Governments,why would it?
The Government is not responsible for them in Iraq in any shape or form.
they were not sent there by Governments.And most PMC are ALL Westerners by definition,unless you take the ex Gurkhas's and Fijians into this equation?

[Argyll]

In so far as they represent a security force working on behalf of the coalition or groups (be they NGOs or corporate) affiliated with it then they are related to the ongoing conflict. It is a relevant and interesting question. Does anyone have an answer?

Is it the same relevance to the amount of Iraqi Police ICDC deaths?

What jobs are they performing that should be done by Coalition Forces Mr Nielson?

Also remember that a lot of contractors are of the Non PMC variety,and they are also not included in Coalition death rates ;)

Off the top of my head I'd say since the end of the Ground war to date perhaps 100?,so many different Nationalities as well,that's why it's hard to estimate,not all deaths are in the media either........

[moughoun]

To gauge the going of the conflict I suppose.

If coalition casualties are low, one might get the the idea that things are going just fine. But what if the numbers are low, because Private Military Contractors are getting killed instead?


Low coalition casualties are of course not a guaratee for success.

and how do the deaths of these PMC's effect the state of conflict?

They're not even linked to Military Operations

I think you might of partially answerd the question there Arg,since most of the pmc's are staffed by ex service men, like your self, and their casualtie figures aren't releasd, we don't know how many have been killed or wounded which if was on the heavy side might put more pressure on the western government's, particulary if those men were westerner's

It wouldn't put any pressure whatsoever on their Governments,why would it?
The Government is not responsible for them in Iraq in any shape or form.
they were not sent there by Governments.And most PMC are ALL Westerners by definition,unless you take the ex Gurkhas's and Fijians into this equation?

Well they would not be there except for the invasion and aren't a lot of the pmc's hired by the respective government's, I'm just saying that although they get a lot of flak thrown if a member of the military is killed there is not as much if a pmc employee is killed especially if he is not a citizen of that Country, just for an example aren't there quite a few attack's on truck convoy's which are driven quite a bit by Pakistanis, Indian driver's ect, does anyone outside Iraq know what their casualtie figures are, I'd say it's quite a few judging by tv news report's, but we never hear of the number's, even that former SBS man yesterday that was not even on the tv news

[Argyll]

To gauge the going of the conflict I suppose.

If coalition casualties are low, one might get the the idea that things are going just fine. But what if the numbers are low, because Private Military Contractors are getting killed instead?


Low coalition casualties are of course not a guaratee for success.

and how do the deaths of these PMC's effect the state of conflict?

They're not even linked to Military Operations

I think you might of partially answerd the question there Arg,since most of the pmc's are staffed by ex service men, like your self, and their casualtie figures aren't releasd, we don't know how many have been killed or wounded which if was on the heavy side might put more pressure on the western government's, particulary if those men were westerner's

It wouldn't put any pressure whatsoever on their Governments,why would it?
The Government is not responsible for them in Iraq in any shape or form.
they were not sent there by Governments.And most PMC are ALL Westerners by definition,unless you take the ex Gurkhas's and Fijians into this equation?

Well they would not be there except for the invasion and aren't a lot of the pmc's hired by the respective government's, I'm just saying that although they get a lot of flak thrown if a member of the military is killed there is not as much if a pmc employee is killed especially if he is not a citizen of that Country, just for an example aren't there quite a few attack's on truck convoy's which are driven quite a bit by Pakistanis, Indian driver's ect, does anyone outside Iraq know what their casualtie figures are, I'd say it's quite a few judging by tv news report's, but we never hear of the number's, even that former SBS man yesterday that was not even on the tv news
AFAIK there are no companies hired directly by UK Government,and No companies directly by the USG,however they're hired by NGO's and Official US Companies....not directly by Uncle Sam himself,what happens is that a Company such as Hallburton place a tenure for a contract to the Government,and included in that tenure is another contract tenure for the providing of the security of these personnel.
There is rightly not much flak thrown at them as they are in effect civilains,working for civilian companies,as for the countries knowing the cas figs.It would be impossible to know,they're not under any obligation to let their respective Governments know their movements,for all they know they could be working at Euro Disney instead of Iraq!

At the end of the day numbers of cas. are irrelevant ,it makes not a blind bit of diference to the work being carried out.It only matters to those families and colleagues of the KIA's,and even some of them are unaware of their loved ones locations.
Also there are PMC's all over the globe,working many different scopes,it's just Iraq has been highlighted more due to the BSC incident at Fallujah.

[moughoun]

I didn't mean to be an asshole to keep pushing on about it arg just something Iwanted to find out more about, I'll shut up now

[Thor]

Why do you ask?

Strictly private interest. Want to know how dangerous the job is.

[Secret Squirrel]

Does anyone have information regarding how many contractors that are killed or wounded in Iraq?

Dont know up to date stats but when 4 were killed in Fallujah, there had been around 75-80 contractors killed.

[Argyll]

Why do you ask?

Strictly private interest. Want to know how dangerous the job is.

It's dangerous.........people shoot at you daily!!

[Trident-za]

To the best of my knowledge, 7 South African contractors have been killed in Iraq. I have no idea how many South Africans are actually there... I would guess not that many since our government has made it illegal to work as a PMC.

It is an interesting question though. And you're right Argyll, we should actually care how many Iraqi Police ICDC deaths have occured. Strangely enough, nobody on this forum appears too interested. I doubt the PMC casaulty stats would seriously pressure western governments, but it does help people get a feel for whats going on. If only 1 coalition soldier per week is dying you might think think everything was under control... if you didn't know that 450 Iraqi policemen and 50 PMCs had died too (obviously, a hypothetical scenario to illustrate a point).