GLADIO - NATO "Stay Behind" teams in Europe

[AirCommando]

"Gladio (Italian, from Latin gladius, meaning sword) is a code name denoting the clandestine NATO -stay-behind- operation in Italy (and Europe) after World War II, intended to counter a Warsaw Pact invasion of Western Europe with a web of agents and paramilitary part-time partisans. Although Gladio specifically refers to the Italian branch of the NATO stay-behind organisations, Operation Gladio is the code name for all -stay-behind- organisations in Europe." (more on Wikipedia)

Gentlemen,
I´m looking for research reasons open source but personal "eyewitness" stories, photos (maybe personal one from the Gladio corner in the Imperial War Museum or 1st PARA Museum), old diaries, individual narratives, personal memories of parents or relatives, old newspapers, memorabilia, collectible, rare interviews, original reports, original magazines-news, regarding -stay behind- training in the 60ies up to late 80ies specially in Germany and generally across Europe with US 10th SFG, OGA, LRRP, SIGNALINT, NATO SF, BND and so on.
Please no notorious "conspiracy" stuff and other Wikipedia-you-have-to-know-facts. Only personal notes or direct links. No book list (I just finished to read them all) or weblinks to the usual "Gladio conspiracy" stuff. Old geezers and cold war veterans very welcome (in English, German, French, Italian language).
In case of success, official interview or discrete compensation possible. If somebody have any questions before posting, feel free to ask. Anyway let´s start a discussion about what we can put together here.
Thank you

[Macaca sylvanus]

This Tunnel tract was discovered in Gibraltar a few years ago and is thought to have been part of a "Stay Behind" operation if the Axis powers ever invaded the Rock.

http://www.gib.gi/museum/HMag%20V1%20I1%20P2.htm

http://www.gogibraltarsite.com/history.html

http://www.gib.gi/museum/stay%20behind.htm


Maybe not exactly what you are looking for but interesting nonetheless

[Amethystfretchen]

Only academic material I know of (amazon link):

http://www.amazon.com/Natos-Secret-Armies-Operation-Contemporary/dp/B000OI0LUW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199764986&sr=8-2


Book Description
The CIA and the British secret service MI6, in collaboration with the military alliance NATO and European military secret services set up a network of clandestine anticommunist armies in Western Europe after World War II. The secret soldiers were trained on remote islands in the Mediterranean and in unorthodox warfare centers in England and in the United States by the Green Berets and SAS Special Forces. The network was armed with explosives, machine guns and high-tech communication equipment hidden in underground bunkers and secret arms caches in forests and mountain meadows. In some countries, the secret army linked up with right-wing terrorists who in a secret war engaged in political manipulation, harassment of left wing parties, massacres, coup d'etats and torture.

Codenamed "Gladio" ('the sword'), the Italian secret army was exposed in 1990 by Italian Prime Minister Giulio Andreotti to the Italian Senate, whereupon the press spoke of the "the best kept, and most damaging, political-military secret since World War II" (Observer, 18. November 1990) and observed that "The story seems straight from the pages of a political thriller." (The Times, November 19, 1990). Ever since, so-called 'stay-behind' armies of NATO have also been discovered in France, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxemburg, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, Austria, Greece and Turkey. They were internationally coordinated by the Pentagon and NATO and had their last known meeting in the NATO-linked Allied Clandestine Committee (ACC) in Brussels in October 1990.

....

D. Ganser's book is frightening. He shows how a secret stay-behind network (Gladio) that should only become effective after a Warschaw Pact invasion of Western Europe, became an all important factor in Western politics, after the wealthy and powerful understood that their real enemies were the strong communist parties in Western democracies and the political parties of the left.
As John Prados says in his excellent introduction: `in country after country, Gladio influenced, violently or not, political processes through fear and terrorism. Police and security services protected perpetrated crimes and antidemocratic `state sponsors' created terrorist networks.'

It was everything except a benign game of play. In Italy alone, the strategy of tension was responsible between 1969 and 1987, for 14591 (not less) acts of violence with political motivation. There and elsewhere, bombs exploded in Bologna, Munich and Istanbul leaving hundreds of dead and crippled.
Other dirty `tricks' were torture, coup d'états, election fraud, assassinations, disinformation, provocation and false flag operations. In one word, a destructive spiral of violence.

This warfare planning group was linked to NATO, the Pentagon and the CIA and operated completely outside democratic control from the nationally elected legislators. It made a joke of national sovereignty.

A must read for all those who try to understand the world we live in.

[AirCommando]

Maybe not exactly what you are looking for but interesting nonetheless
Uh, very interesting! It´s not exactly what I´m looking for but cool stuff anyway. I visited Gibraltar years ago and also the cave and fortress complex but I didn´t hear about that one.

Many thanks

[AirCommando]

Only academic material I know of
Of course I read all about Mr. Ganser research. Anyway it´s only a summary (but very accurate) of ALL conspiracy theories connected to GLADIO. The question is: What is the real GLADIO inner circle (training, orders, communication, chain of command, recruiting and so on) and what is theories, conspiracies, history and other happenings connected to GLADIO only looseley or fits maybe only in a good narrative in a superficial book. The point is that true GLADIO facts and conspiray theories and other facts are mixed all together to a soup and promote only the "grey zone" myth. Also Mr. Ganser collect all informations (even very accurate) but also he can´t explain what is true GLADIO chain of command and what is connected only loosely to this part of the history. If I want, I can connect Elvis to GLADIO.
I´m interested specially in the facts only connected straight to NATO, SHAPE and their GLADIO chain of command and training. At least it is very known that the 10th SFG played a major role back at the Bad Toelz times. What remains of GLADIO if you cut away all this right wing terrorism stuff, the conspiracy theories, the inner political troubles in Italy, Belgium, Turkey and so on? Not much..........that´s the point. I try to concentrate on the paramilitary facts of cold war stay behind system. Maybe a cold war veteran from 10th SFG can say more about that. Even some old LRRP Fernspaeher from the Bundeswehr can explain maybe some doctrine stuff from the 60ies upt to the 80ies.

[FROGFOOT-MKDN]

----deleted----

[Peris]

there is a good link in Italian with pics



http://www.gladio.webdomini.com/htm/index1.htm

[AirCommando]

there is a good link in Italian with pics



http://www.gladio.webdomini.com/htm/index1.htm

Ha, very good reading and very interesting. This guy has done a lot of work to put together all this.
At least an impostor. I mean, a Stay Behind Veteran Association with own website, full names and so on? Blaiming the Italian Government for not getting a pension as retired Gladiator??? Very, very uncommon...... However, a cup of old paratroopers living the myth. That´s cool.
Historical facts: Notorious ultra right wing structures in Trentino Alto Adige (Suedtirol) claimed for themselfes at least many times to be associated with GLADIO for giving a justification of their doing. I don´t belive that NATO / SHAPE supported some Italian extreme right wing dumbass in some remote valleys for putting some bombs. At least this were local troubles and GLADIO was just an excuse for making some bull**** overthere.
Anyway, very interesting.

I forgott, everybody is also invited to join the discussion with his own theories (not conspiracy).

[James]

I recall reading about this in a book called "The Very Best Men". That might be a source to look for references.

I amended the title of this thread for clarification - hopefully that will help.

[Indiana Jones]

Herr S.,
Given your location, as far as GLADIO is concerned, I would urgently recommend you to look up the publications of Prof. Wolfgang Krieger and to go from there. Of course you might as well just call him. Judging from my experience he is a not only literally the authority on Western intelligence agencies but also a very likeable and polyglot bloke who will be able to point you to just about everybody who has researched in this field. It´s been a couple of years but I think he still teaches in Marburg.
Regards

[Peris]

Ha, very good reading and very interesting. This guy has done a lot of work to put together all this.
At least an impostor. I mean, a Stay Behind Veteran Association with own website, full names and so on? Blaiming the Italian Government for not getting a pension as retired Gladiator??? Very, very uncommon...... However, a cup of old paratroopers living the myth. That´s cool.
Historical facts: Notorious ultra right wing structures in Trentino Alto Adige (Suedtirol) claimed for themselfes at least many times to be associated with GLADIO for giving a justification of their doing. I don´t belive that NATO / SHAPE supported some Italian extreme right wing dumbass in some remote valleys for putting some bombs. At least this were local troubles and GLADIO was just an excuse for making some bull**** overthere.
Anyway, very interesting.

I forgott, everybody is also invited to join the discussion with his own theories (not conspiracy).


impostor? :roll:
right wing groups not connected with Gladio ?:roll:


CIA knew, but didn't stop bombings in Italy - report



A former Italian secret service general claims that the CIA gave its tacit approval to a series of bomb attacks in Italy in the 1960s and 1970s.
In a newspaper interview, the general says the Americans wanted to keep the Italian Communist Party from taking power.
The CIA denies the allegations.
Gen. Gianadelio Maletti told La Repubblica the CIA did not have an active and direct role in the bombings, but the U.S. spy agency knew both the targets and the culprits.
There have long been allegations that the CIA and Italian secret services conspired to keep Italy's conservative Christian Democrats in power by fostering instability.
During the period from the 1960s until the 1980s Italy was home to a number of terrorist organizations, which carried out a number of attacks, killing dozens of people. Many of the cases remain unsolved.
Maletti said in his interview that in the 1970s the spy agency he headed discovered explosives were being sent from Germany to an Italian neo-Fascist paramilitary group. He said the discovery was reported to his superiors, but no action was taken.



http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2000/08/05/cia000805.html

[AirCommando]

I recall reading about this in a book called "The Very Best Men". That might be a source to look for references.

I amended the title of this thread for clarification - hopefully that will help.

Thank you very much, I will check it of course.

[AirCommando]

...I would urgently recommend .....Prof. Wolfgang Krieger.....
Thank you, I will do that at the next possibility.

[AirCommando]

impostor? :roll:
right wing groups not connected with Gladio ?:roll: CIA knew, but didn't stop bombings in Italy - report
The CIA is not SHAPE or NATO. They are connected in the sense that some of the right wing leaders leaders used to have contacts to US OGA and other national Agencies (example SIFAR). Also NATO recruited right wing veterans, but this is not really the same people in terms that NATO gived them the mission to bomb. Anyway their actions were never planned, sponsored, controlled from a NATO led or SHAPE led chain of command. The US just tollerated this internal national "secret wars" or supported with small "dirty" contributes for their own interests.
All this happen when the last "boots on the ground" from GLADIO (or only with loosely connection) went out of controll for their own "Italian style national chaos", very common in Southern Europe back at that time (also today if I check Italian newspapers....).
And how mentioned, a lot of people claimed for themselfe (to many at least) to be connected to GLADIO just for justification for their doing. All this was called also "strategy of tension", a dirty war between International and National OGA, ultra right wing troopers, Mafia associated and other national groups of interest. On the botom line, it had nothing to do with the real chain of command and controll from the GLADIO recruiting, training and doctrine system. The Italian scene just went out of controll and made their own political soup at home. Anyway, also Andreotti was a great impostor.

However, the explosives were from German right wing groups, wich was just only stoolen. Nothing of exiting but anyway very interesting, thank you.

[ting]

Stay behind in Norway was AFAIK under national control. We have had a commission dealing with the intelligence services in the post war and cold war period.

http://www.stortinget.no/lund/10-14-b2.htm#I34
Chapter 13.4 is related to stay behind. However it`s in Norwegian:-( I couldn`nt find any translations. To sum it up (it`s been a while since iwe read the report so my memory might be incorrect)
- We had a stay behind network(several) before an interest in the concept was further developed.
- There were different networks which quite quickly were either dissolved or brought under the control of the head of military intelligence(Evang).

- The official stay behind was created in 1948 by the defense minister Jens Chr. Hauge.
- The creation of a Norwegian network within the NATO framework was taken in a meeting between British intelligence, OSS(pre CIA) and Evang(Military intel) in 1950.
- Norway already had some usable networks which were quickly reconfigured.
- In 1959, USA, UK and France attempted to take control of the stay behind network in northern Europe. This created a diplomatic problem since the duty's of both the Norwegian and Danish home guard would have been under foreign control. This was solved by the Norwegian and Danish networks being put under the wartime command of the NATO northern command.
- In the late 1950s there was a shake up in the intelligence apparatus. The situation were lower ranking officers cooperated with foreign intelligence was changed so that all coordination went through the head of intelligence. (You could perhaps call it a purge/ mini purge;))

Background
- The OSS had tried to establish intel networks in Norway after the war. They were keen to stifle communism. They were unable to get any good information, in fact some was factually wrong.
- Norwegian intel discovered these attempts quite quickly and were able to disprove a number of assertions made by the OSS. Hence a deal was made that meant that spying would go through Norwegian services.
- Since Norway boarders Russia, the need for good intel was huge. The result was that the US sponsored the Norwegian service.

In sum the Norwegian stay behind network was under the defacto control of the head of military intelligence. Their role during the cold war was strictly military.

[Dispatcher]

Weve had some trouble here with arms-depot's being found and looted by criminals. Nasty fallout. There was a documentary on this subject on the dutch tv not long ago.

Found it;

http://reporter.kro.nl/uitzendingen/2007/0909_gladio_in_nederland/intro.aspx

In dutch only, so not sure if its of any use to you.

[Peris]

The CIA is not SHAPE or NATO. They are connected in the sense that some of the right wing leaders leaders used to have contacts to US OGA and other national Agencies (example SIFAR). Also NATO recruited right wing veterans, but this is not really the same people in terms that NATO gived them the mission to bomb. Anyway their actions were never planned, sponsored, controlled from a NATO led or SHAPE led chain of command. The US just tollerated this internal national "secret wars" or supported with small "dirty" contributes for their own interests.
All this happen when the last "boots on the ground" from GLADIO (or only with loosely connection) went out of controll for their own "Italian style national chaos", very common in Southern Europe back at that time (also today if I check Italian newspapers....).
And how mentioned, a lot of people claimed for themselfe (to many at least) to be connected to GLADIO just for justification for their doing. All this was called also "strategy of tension", a dirty war between International and National OGA, ultra right wing troopers, Mafia associated and other national groups of interest. On the botom line, it had nothing to do with the real chain of command and controll from the GLADIO recruiting, training and doctrine system. The Italian scene just went out of controll and made their own political soup at home. Anyway, also Andreotti was a great impostor.

However, the explosives were from German right wing groups, wich was just only stoolen. Nothing of exiting but anyway very interesting, thank you.


Even after all these years little info is exposed about Gladio. An example is that western media and historians are wrong
calling the Greek branch of Gladio, Sheepskin.

In the series CIA by John Ranelagh there was a part about Gladio and CIA working habits in Italy and also there was a short clip of men training in a camp whithout clarifying which force is it.

[Dominique]

You may want to do a little reading on the US Army's "Green Light" teams. They were US Army Special Forces "A-Teams" who's mission was to detonate tactical nuclear weapons. The teams would HALO jump into occupied territory with a SADM, or go underground in the event of a Warsaw Pact attack, and wait for orders.

And check out a book called LRRPs in action. It's got some background info on the US Army's VII Corps LRRP unit and the stay behind training they conducted n the 60s.

[oldsoak]

NATO had "stay behind teams" - absolutely - so did the WARPAC.
CIA control ? Nope. All teams organised into cells and were under home nation control. Recruited and trained locally and thoroughly vetted by local IS. Teams were operated and briefed independently and on a need to know basis to avoid compromise. Teams were not to move outside set areas. Teams would have long term "handlers" known to them and trained for the purpose to ensure that cells didnt get "led astray" . Handlers interfaced with bods from the funny bit of the military where you find green blokes mixed with grey blokes. there yer go.

[AirCommando]

.....or go underground in the event of a Warsaw Pact attack, and wait for orders.

And check out a book called LRRPs in action. It's got some background info on the US Army's VII Corps LRRP unit and the stay behind training they conducted n the 60s.
Oho, that could be a good trace. Thank you! I will keep informed if its fits my focus.

[oldsoak]

- what confuses the matter is the tasks of the teams. They would be expected to provide political and military intelligence as well as disrupting the enemy where possible. This would have meant not only targetting enemy soldiers, but also local collaborators, spies etc. In the cold war days, collaborators may well have been from the local communist party or its sympathisers. These would have been of interest to various intelligence agencies from both NATO and WARPAC, so the involvement of agencies like the CIA, MI5/6, SAPO, NIS, DGSE etc would be unavoidable. Carrying out political assassinations ( as we would understand it ) was therefore a real possibility - hence the claims of CIA involvement.

[jokuhuna]

Hi everyone, my first post :)

In this article
http://einestages.spiegel.de/static/topicalbumbackground/1174/atombombe_im_gully.html
( sorry only german )
Michael Grube talks about "lost places" for example extra prepared parts of the Autobahn for landingstrips and predugged holes and tunnels to blow up bridges and hidden explosive storages near by. The people responsible for this stuff are called Wallmeister Units.
http://www.lostplaces.de (http://www.lostplaces.de/) is the homepage of him. But it seems to be overloaded atm.

[Peris]

CIA control ? Nope.


i 'don't know how you see no CIA control when the retired CIA officers claim the project was under the general supervision of the local CIA station.

[oldsoak]

I'm not sure of your use of the word "supervise"
If you mean to help the local nation create and train the groups - possible, but I'm quite sure the host nation would want to ensure the CIA wasnt in charge.
If you mean "control" - I dont agree. In any case, most of NATO had real experience in resistance to the Nazis during the war !
Put it this way - would the Greeks allow a foreign intelligence agency to run an armed group in Greece that wasnt under Greek control ?

[little icebear]

Here you go: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4900756773650110959

the other 2 parts can be found there, too. And yes, Gladio was pretty much a child of the young CIA. No bashing intended, but the CIA has a history of not being very picky when it comes to their allies. Amongst the members of the staybehind-armies one could find former facists and other dangerous elements of the far right.

[Peris]

I'm not sure of your use of the word "supervise"
If you mean to help the local nation create and train the groups - possible, but I'm quite sure the host nation would want to ensure the CIA wasnt in charge.
If you mean "control" - I dont agree. In any case, most of NATO had real experience in resistance to the Nazis during the war !
Put it this way - would the Greeks allow a foreign intelligence agency to run an armed group in Greece that wasnt under Greek control ?


maby this Bbc documentary about Gladio will help to get the overall picture:the guy who posted calls it Nato terrorists:) but it's the BBC doc


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2MOpkriXb4&feature=related

many key figures appear, Colby, Licio Gelli...

there is no doubt that the project was under the local govts.IT would be better to say that becauase this was an American initiative the CIA had a crucial role in strategy planning and deciding actions vs the Left.

[Peris]

little icebar was faster to post it:)

[Peris]

at the 3rd part American sofs raid Belgian barracks and injured seriously a Belgian soldier stealing weapons who were found later in communists hands, check this out.

[AirCommando]

Hi everyone, my first post :)

.... "lost places" ..... are called Wallmeister Units.

Yeah, this is very known (and still interesting) but has not a lot to do with "stay behind". It was common and known doctrine of NATO to delay WARPAC troops. Also "Wallmeister Units" were legaly part of the engineer branch.

@dominique
The trace with the US Army's VII Corps LRRP units is a very interesting one so far. At least it explain very good the doctrine of the cold war with operations behind enemy lines. I will go deeper in this.

[juju]

I heard that "Gladio" was a generic name for all the Stay behind groups in western Europe. In most of the countries, the name was a local translation of Gladio.
I also thought it was mainly a CIA operation in contact with the local services.
I read an article a couple of years ago about the discovering of massive weapons cache in Austria and Belgium. The article said that CIA gave the location of each cache in each country to the local governments.
They found lots and lots of WW2 era rifles, SMGs, pistols, explosives etc....

[AirCommando]

Amongst the members of the staybehind-armies one could find former facists and other dangerous elements of the far right.
That´s one of my points of criticism. Pragmatically there´s no real need to recruit such people for GLADIO. Maybe someone, yes. But only just after the war because they had the field experience and connections to surviving resistance groups behind the Iron Fence. But not as full recruiting doctrine at all. I´m convinced that all this Italian, Greek, Turkish ultra right wing bombers were NOT true GLADIATORI in the sense to be recruited, paid, trained, commanded and controlled by NATO and SHAPE itselfe (maybe by the CIA, yes). They claim only for themselfe to be connected to GLADIO for giving a "National Hero" justification of their brutal and lawless doing. It´s only the usual "I´m Al-Quaida associated because I hate America but unfortunately Osama doesn´t know" story. I´m convinced this people were never on the true internal list from NATO / SHAPE.

[AirCommando]

They found lots and lots of WW2 era rifles, SMGs, pistols, explosives etc....
That´s another point of my criticism. The dump media boomed the weapon chaches as "War" deposit for complete "Armies" and partisans brigades. It suggest hundreds of assault rifles, tons of ammo and so on delivered by NATO or the Agency.
I saw some investigation pictures from the German weapon chaches. Just some old confused WW II stuff or stolen over the years from military storages, law enforcement or purchased on the black market and so on. Most of them could be connected by investigators to right wing criminal activities back at that time. It makes no sense for GLADIO. It looks like a right wing / left wing weapon chache (even if all over Europe) for terrorism but not for a working paramilitary stay behind system. NATO would just let produce 5.000 assault rifles and handguns without serial number by FN and deliver free house. Much easy or not? Or just develop a program like the "Iran-Contra" affaire. There´s no need to steel pistol over single pistol over years to some police officer or a hunting rifle with scoop from a drunken park ranger.

By the way, there a any pictures from the chaches in Austria or Belgium? This could really, really help.

[oldsoak]

I'm still not convinced the CIA played the part it is alleged in creating "stay behind teams". Certainly the UK setup was created before WWII without US assistance against Nazi invasion. The teams in the Nordic countries were created in response to experiences gained in WWII and were very firmly under host nation control. Holland and the low countries had similar setups. Until the formation of the Bundeswehr in 55, the Germans had no such setup and the Austrians were neautral.
The CIA were more interested in left wing factions in areas where there was a possibility of them gaining control - eg Italy. While it is possible they would arm right wing factions to carry out a dirty war, it would not have been organised with the idea of "creating stay behind teams." IMHO there are two seperate elements - "stay behind teams " organised by the local government and coming under the military command structure and "terror" organisations developed by the CIA to either undermine leftist governments or to ensure the left would not enter power.

[AirCommando]

While it is possible they would arm right wing factions to carry out a dirty war, it would not have been organised with the idea of "creating stay behind teams." IMHO there are two seperate elements - "stay behind teams " organised by the local government and coming under the military command structure and "terror" organisations developed by the CIA to either undermine leftist governments or to ensure the left would not enter power.
Yeah, that´s also my feelings about it. For that I try to be focused only on the NATO / SHAPE developed stay behind system connected maybe to military SF and LRRP training and so on.

[wiking]

I've heard of the Stay-Behind network in Norway, but never really read up on the facts.

One interesting fact about Norway is that, however they were organized and how many they were in the official Stay-Behind organization, alot of Norwegians (and this was more or less a unofficial-official policy in the time following the German invasion and occupation of Norway during WW2) had a sort of Stay-Behind mentality, and on their own formed a one-man group, either because they distinctly remembered the Germans or because they'd heard the rumors and liked the Stay-Behind idea. So some were probably what we here on MP.net would call "wannabe rambo's" while others may very well have been resistance members from WW2.

It was, for a considerable time during the cold war, a completely accepted and common practice to have a rifle or more unregistered and "off the books" - 'Just In Case' the Russians came over the border. And it was on atleast one occacion encouraged by the chief of a large police force publicly in the media.

most accepted the fact that a full scale war in Norway would only be a delaying action at best, and alot of people were quite ready and willing to hand over what guns they had registered if and when our new "lords and masters" got a hold off the paperwork. And they'd do it with a smile, because they'd know that they had that old Mauser or Krag that was off the books hidden away along with some ammo.

[AirCommando]

a lot of Norwegians had a sort of Stay-Behind mentality.
It was the only doctrine to survive a Red invasion (anyway the Fins were masters on it). A tactic choosen also by the Helvetic militia and other smaller countries across Europe.
Thank you for your posting.

[theholeinthedonut]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/294202/Daniele-Ganser-NATOs-Secret-Armies-Operation-Gladio-and-Terrorism-in-Western-Europe

I haven't read it all, I only got the link to this site afew hours ago. I can only tell you about a "possible" Gladio exercise I witnessed in Luxembourg. It must have been in late august 1983 or 1984 (I'm not 100% sure about the exact date and year) when I was working late on a field, I was 15 years old that time. Just before sunset 12 military parachutists did a low level jump from a C-130, I met with a few of them before they regrouped, they were wearing US BDU's after regrouping they were picked up by several civilian cars and vans that left the scene in different directions. The whoel took place inbetween the villages of Nommern and Schrondweiler in Luxembourg. As I said there is no proof that it was a Gladio Exercise but there are several details that might suggest so.

[AirCommando]

Yes, could be. Very interesting. Or maybe some "displaced" US troopers. The vans, there were European made or US style?

The Luxembourg Army wears US style pattern uniforms and sports some US manufactured items. Anyway, they don´t have any paratroopers. Even the Recce Coy is "on wheels". The only paras were from the Luxembourg Gendarmerie back at that time but wearing French made uniforms.

[theholeinthedonut]

Yes, could be. Very interesting. Or maybe some "displaced" US troopers. The vans, there were European made or US style?

Europeans with luxemburgish immatriculation, during that period it was also very common to see 10th SFG (Eur) personnel on joint-training and exercise with the Luxembourg Army.
We have many personnel qualified as paratroopers as well in the army as in the former Gendarmerie, but no para-qualified unit. They were for sure no Luxemburgers, they spoke english with an american accent. I joined in 1990 so I'm pretty sure they were no locals. The more they were armed with m-16 which was never in service with our army. I'm sure they were americans most probably from 10th group,

[theholeinthedonut]

.............................

[AirCommando]

....they were armed with m-16 which was never in service with our army. I'm sure they were americans most probably from 10th group,
I know. Luxembourg sports for some time the Steyr AUG. Interesting that the 10th used the small Luxembourg as jump base. Maybe some "lost" troopers from Schaffen. But why Luxembourg? Germany and Belgium in not huge enough, isn´t it?

[theholeinthedonut]

I know. Luxembourg sports for some time the Steyr AUG. Interesting that the 10th used the small Luxembourg as jump base. Maybe some "lost" troopers from Schaffen. But why Luxembourg? Germany and Belgium in not huge enough, isn´t it?

I guess the 10th also had exercises in the other european countries, but I think we had at least one common exercise per year, if memory serves me right a lot of our guys also got their american jumpwings with the 10th Group, I remember many NCO's and enlisted having US jumpwings when I joined in 1990.

During that time we still had the FAL, the AUG was only introduced in the beginninmg of the nineties, I did "Instruction de base" with the FAL.

[AirCommando]

but I think we had at least one common exercise per year.
mmmh, with the small Luxembourg Army? What purpose was it? The 10th didn´t train a lot with other conventional units (but all over Europe with other SOF). What was the tactics, the maneuover plan or the doctrine to train together (Luxembourg Army and 10th SF)???? I mean, how they fit in a Luxembourg Operational Plan? Do you can remember what was the purpose and the focus of this exercises back at that time? Were this big NATO maneuovers or national exercises?

[theholeinthedonut]

mmmh, with the small Luxembourg Army? What purpose was it? The 10th didn´t train a lot with other conventional units (but all over Europe with other SOF). What was the tactics, the maneuover plan or the doctrine to train together (Luxembourg Army and 10th SF)???? I mean, how they fit in a Luxembourg Operational Plan? Do you can remember what was the purpose and the focus of this exercises back at that time? Were this big NATO maneuovers or national exercises?

I was not in at that time and quite young, so I can't tell you any details. My info is based on press articles and stories from friends who joined before me. During the 70es and 80es B-company of the LU army had the role of "home defence". Most of the exercises were in that context, so LU army guarded and defended High value infrastructure assets like dams, power lines, airport, nato pipeline etc. also the Gendarmerie and Army units patrolled the countryside and tried to hunt down the SF, population was asked via press release to help the authorities hunt down these "saboteurs". This is now something I only know from hearsay but apparently there were also "secret" exercises where the special unit "Brigade mobile de la Gendarmerie" was involved. I do not think that it would be very speculative to assume that during those exercises SF were helped and assisted by members of the LU Stay-behind net.

EDIT: Also keep in mind that the strength of 10th Group Europe was bigger during the seventies and eighties.

[AirCommando]

During the 70es and 80es B-company of the LU army had the role of "home defence". .......I do not think that it would be very speculative to assume that during those exercises SF were helped and assisted by members of the LU Stay-behind net.
In the context of "home defence" the 10th SFG fits very well. No questions about that. The Letzeburgisch "stay behind" net ? Maybe the "Bombenlescher Prinz"?..............just kidding!
Are there any articles or something like that in your local language about "stay behind" or the national defense doctrine in the Cold War aviable, maybe on the net or somewhere else? There were some weapons chaches discovered in Luxembourg like in Germany, Belgium and Austria?

[theholeinthedonut]

In the context of "home defence" the 10th SFG fits very well. No questions about that. The Letzeburgisch "stay behind" net ? Maybe the "Bombenlescher Prinz"?..............just kidding!
Are there any articles or something like that in your local language about "stay behind" or the national defense doctrine in the Cold War aviable, maybe on the net or somewhere else? There were some weapons chaches discovered in Luxembourg like in Germany, Belgium and Austria?

There might be more behind it then both of us wish. Apparently the BMG, two of it's former members are officially under inquiry in relation with the "Bommeleer" affair was "secretly" involved in "Oesling 84" one of the exercises with the 10th, this exercise coincided with the attack on the Vielsalm barracks where a "Chasseur Ardennais" was killed, the BBC alleged an US SF implication on its series about Gladio. But now we are getting into tin foil hat theories.

Back to facts a friend of mine who was in from 87-89 confirmed that the exercises with the 10th group were helkd on a yearly basis in april/may (my memory let me up when I said it must have been in late summer when I witnessed the parajump, I think it was in may) He took part twice in 87 and 88, there was also one in 89. There was none during the first Gulf War. I will have to check about cooperation of LU army and 10th SFG during Operation Provide Comfort. In 87 the exercise was named ALSUM (reference to the ALzette-SUre-Moselle region where it took part) . The one in 88 was called Oesling 88. My friend recalls that during the first week they did vehicle mounted patrols and helicopter patrols (With US army helos). During the second week they guarded real and simulated high value infrastructures. He says he guarded the public swimming pool ( simulated infrastructure ) in the town of Clervaux in northern Luxembourg. He remembers that they caught an american soldier who they delivered to the HQ in a village called Marnach nearby, there half a dozen or so americans were kept prisoner, they were kept under strong guard in a working pit of a car workshop. The prisoners had their hands and feet tied with thin wire and were handled and interrogated with unusual violence and aggressivity.
As far as I know there were no more exercises after 89, I will try to ask around for more info.

BTW: where are you from, first time I met someone with knowledge of "letzebuergesch" on mpnnet?

[AirCommando]

Apparently the BMG
Could you explain BMG, please.

the BBC alleged an US SF implication on its series about Gladio
Drop this, I don´t think that it have really something to do with that. Everbody and specially the press is very fast to connect every farth with GLADIO.

and were handled and interrogated with unusual violence and aggressivity
Why the hell? It was a exercise, or not?

BTW: where are you from, first time I met someone with knowledge ?of "letzebuergesch" on mpnnet?
........We want to be how we are.........

[theholeinthedonut]

Could you explain BMG, please.

Drop this, I don´t think that it have really something to do with that. Everbody and specially the press is very fast to connect every farth with GLADIO.

Why the hell? It was a exercise, or not?

........We want to be how we are.........

BMG = Brigad mobile de la gendarmerie

As I said, the BBC series was borderline tin foil hat, but the coincidences are striking nonetheless, it might be stupid to believe everything, not asking questions is idiocy though.

It was an exercise, but probably it was also meant to benefit the american participants, like an escape and evasion training

"Mir woelle bleiwwe waat mer sinn" would be translated as: We want to stay what we are. = Luxembourgers

[Ulytau]

Hmm i read about it especially Turkish Gladio Kont Guerilla ''Counter Guerilla'' from Turkish Writer..Founded aganist Soviet threat in every NATO countries most of people heard their name Clear Hands operation at Italy..Their aim was starting resistance aganist probable Soviet Invade..I have link of Danielle Gansers book in PDF version i will send link if it's not problem for forum..

[AirCommando]

The point is also with this Turkish fighters that all looks like the Italian razzle dazzle. Too many ultra right wing fighters (supportet by some governmental paramilitary structures, local Mafia, national intelligence agencies and some US back up) claim to be the only and from the people choosen GLADIO freedom fighter. Also in this case GLADIO is used as an excuse for their bombing. Of course they wanted to cut the communist and ultra left wing movement but it has nothing to do with a chain of command and control from NATO / SHAPE. The Turkish and the Greek right wing terrorism has the same roots as the Italian tangle: internal national problems that have to be resolved even if its costs their own democracy......that´s sad.

About Ganser: Sure, he wrote the ultimative work about this topic but he never claimed that GALDIO implies all this bombings. He said that it could be a connection. Anyway, conspiracy topics are a better seller for books......

@theholeinthedonut
Sorry, I didn´t remember well the slogang (motto) from Luxembourg. I´m not from there but I saw it when I worked there for some stuff.

[theholeinthedonut]

About Ganser: Sure, he wrote the ultimative work about this topic but he never claimed that GALDIO implies all this bombings. He said that it could be a connection. Anyway, conspiracy topics are a better seller for books......


Her claims that the attack on the Vielsalm Gendarmerie Barracks were committed by a squad of US Marines parachuted into the region from England does not reflect well on her work.
If you do research work on such a controversial topic you should get all your details right, I highly doubt that Marines would have carried out the attacks !! IF !! the attackers were american servicemembers at all.

[AirCommando]

Sure, but this is his business if he want to sell books. It´s sad but also academic researchers use the tools of commercial business if they want to earn some money. Gansers work is the most complete about GLADIO. Anyway he collect everthing: facts but also rumors and conspiracy theories. That is very confusing.

Anway I understand that the the attack on the Vielsalm Gendarmerie Barracks could be the advance party of the „Bommeleeërn“ that rocket the country little bit later. Some explosive seems to be stolen from the same depot that the „Bommeleeërn“ used later for their bombings. Actually two former Gendarmerie officers are charged again for this story. Quote: "Bekanntlich hat die Staatsanwaltschaft gegen zwei Mitglieder der vormalig vom jetzigen Polizeichef geleiteten Spezialeinheit Anklage erhoben." (if I undertand well this quote). Anyway, the „Bommeleeërn“ are NOT a GLADIO section, that is clear. Anyway maybe this guys are right wing inspired (because the Gendarmerie training seems to hold in Belgium and maybe they get in contact with Belgian inspired ultra right wing drifts). Who knows? Sometimes the Luxembourg internal affairs tangle are more complicated than the Italian "Catena di San Antonio"........

However, I try to concentrate on the "clean" stuff from the stay behind training and chain of command and control. The trace with the 10th SFG is always a good one.

[theholeinthedonut]

Sure, but this is his business if he want to sell books. It´s sad but also academic researchers use the tools of commercial business if they want to earn some money. Gansers work is the most complete about GLADIO. Anyway he collect everthing: facts but also rumors and conspiracy theories. That is very confusing.

Anway I understand that the the attack on the Vielsalm Gendarmerie Barracks could be the advance party of the „Bommeleeërn“ that rocket the country little bit later. Some explosive seems to be stolen from the same depot that the „Bommeleeërn“ used later for their bombings. Actually two former Gendarmerie officers are charged again for this story. Quote: "Bekanntlich hat die Staatsanwaltschaft gegen zwei Mitglieder der vormalig vom jetzigen Polizeichef geleiteten Spezialeinheit Anklage erhoben." (if I undertand well this quote). Anyway, the „Bommeleeërn“ are NOT a GLADIO section, that is clear. Anyway maybe this guys are right wing inspired (because the Gendarmerie training seems to hold in Belgium and maybe they get in contact with Belgian inspired ultra right wing drifts). Who knows? Sometimes the Luxembourg internal affairs tangle are more complicated than the Italian "Catena di San Antonio"........

However, I try to concentrate on the "clean" stuff from the stay behind training and chain of command and control. The trace with the 10th SFG is always a good one.

I do not want to speculate and I don't think that the BMG was involved in the Vielsalm attacks, nonetheless they were part of a joint Gladio exercise on the two sides of the border that took part during the same time.

Regarding the explosives it seems that some of the explosives used on attacks attributed to CCC were stolen from the same depot as those used at the bombings in Luxembourg.

Regarding possible contacts of Ben Geiben and Pierre Reuland with belgian right wing groups, that is a long shot, I can't even tell you if they did their training in Belgium or in France.

[AirCommando]

Regarding possible contacts of Ben Geiben and Pierre Reuland with belgian right wing groups, that is a long shot, I can't even tell you if they did their training in Belgium or in France.
If they were in the Gendarmerie Special Forces Unit (before melting with the Police to the present USP), they certainly will have done the parachute jump course in France and the All Combat Arms course at the Belgian Commando training center at Marche-Le-Dammes. That´s for sure (even I´m not informed about all the Luxembourg defense and security doctrine).

What did you mean with "they were part of a joint Gladio exercise on the two sides of the border that took part during the same time". What were the true evidences for a GLADIO exercise?


I highly doubt that Marines would have carried out the attacks !! IF !! the attackers were american servicemembers at all.
I doubt also. I don´t see any sense to kill somebody to steel some 20 or so old FAL assault rifles for covert operations. I mean, there is no real need for US agencies to do that.
For a real terrorist cell short on firearms, no question.

[theholeinthedonut]

You are better informed about the BMG then I am! I can't tell you about the training the members of the firs BMG unit did, but I can confirm you that at least Reuland has french jumpwings. Nowadays USP do their training with the SEK Göppingen & courses with many european special units, as well military as police.

The info about "Ösling 84" I got from Luxembourgish press, I can't give you the degree of reliability with last certainty though.

[AirCommando]

You are better informed about the BMG then I am! .......
Becauze it´s my job to be it........

The info about "Ösling 84" I got from Luxembourgish press.......
........and you can drop it. It´s mostly all speculative. They´re not better than my small hometown yellow press papers with a naked girl on page two. If there´s no real statement from the Government, the military or some other officials it has no value for me. Of course, a little bit of fuzy speculations are always nice.......

I´m also surprised to not see any official branch at NATO / SHAPE level dealing with "what-to-do-in-case-of-red-commie-invasion". Sure, there were plans and people involved with this but I didn´t find out for now a "doctrine or strategic office" or some ORBATS back from that time. I mean, everbody is claiming "Allied Clandestine Committee" and "Clandestine Planning Committee" and there´s no true evidence that it really existed. Sure, it´s called "Clandestine" but even the CIA and the NSA have a home adress. So I never saw any official document or a paper with this ACC or CPC headline. People using this only copy and transcribe from each other without showing sources of origin. I mean, if I want I can invent "GLADIO-SBO-PUBLIC-RELATION-CELL" and quote this as a true fact for any book that I want to write. But it doesn´t fit any serious journalistic standards. Somebody knows more about this freaking issue?

[loganinkosovo]

impostor? :roll:
right wing groups not connected with Gladio ?:roll:


CIA knew, but didn't stop bombings in Italy - report



A former Italian secret service general claims that the CIA gave its tacit approval to a series of bomb attacks in Italy in the 1960s and 1970s.
In a newspaper interview, the general says the Americans wanted to keep the Italian Communist Party from taking power.
The CIA denies the allegations.
Gen. Gianadelio Maletti told La Repubblica the CIA did not have an active and direct role in the bombings, but the U.S. spy agency knew both the targets and the culprits.
There have long been allegations that the CIA and Italian secret services conspired to keep Italy's conservative Christian Democrats in power by fostering instability.
During the period from the 1960s until the 1980s Italy was home to a number of terrorist organizations, which carried out a number of attacks, killing dozens of people. Many of the cases remain unsolved.
Maletti said in his interview that in the 1970s the spy agency he headed discovered explosives were being sent from Germany to an Italian neo-Fascist paramilitary group. He said the discovery was reported to his superiors, but no action was taken.



http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2000/08/05/cia000805.html

The CIA, The Mafia and the Vatican were all that kept Italy from going Commie for many years.

[AirCommando]

The CIA, The Mafia and the Vatican were all that kept Italy from going Commie for many years.
Sure, and it was OK, but it have nothing to do with GLADIO. This guys claim only to be GLADIO-connected to give to their own brutal bombings a justification for the public. To be a "Gladiatore" was honorable, to be a ultra right wing bomber was not. That´s the point with the Italian razzle-dazzle. Mostly impostors.

[little icebear]

I wouldn´t go so far to say it had "nothing" to do with Gladio. There are many publications about this topic.
I haven´t done research and I don´t plan to do so, but to me the "claims" seem to be quite sustainable.

[AirCommando]

I wouldn´t go so far to say it had "nothing" to do with Gladio. ..
"Nothing" in the sense that it was not controlled and commanded from NATO / SHAPE. Sure, some GLADIATORI were part of it but not in the sense of a NATO controlled "ultra right wing bombing" operation. Some of them just went out of control...........

There are many publications about this topic..Sure. There also many publications about 9/11 conspiracy theories, freemmansons, Templar Knights and a lot of other stuff. But what is true and what is fiction? Commercial inspired books are good reading but not the facts for doing a serious research.

[little icebear]

"Nothing" in the sense that it was not controlled and commanded from NATO / SHAPE. Sure, some GLADIATORI were part of it but not in the sense of a NATO controlled "ultra right wing bombing" operation. Some of them just went out of control...........

That is pretty much undisputed, I guess. At the end of the day, we´re not talking about regular Nato-Troops. Those lads were civilians, secret para-military organization founded with Nato-Support but I don´t think that there were many people within shape who knew much about the Gladio-Cells and at the end of the day, many of them pretty much did what they felt like.
I´d rather say that people within Nato or the CIA were aware what those cats were into and approved it, probably even encouraged it.
We know how big the fear of leftist governments during cold war was and there was little hesitation when it came to issues like supporting dangerous far right groops as long as they kept the commies from gaining influence.
Think of South America...



Sure. There also many publications about 9/11 conspiracy theories, freemmansons, Templar Knights and a lot of other stuff. But what is true and what is fiction? Commercial inspired books are good reading but not the facts for doing a serious research.

I only said that the documentations on this topic seem well researched to me... The BBC-Docu i.E. is nothing like "Loose Change". ;)

There was a good swiss Docu on google.video I saw a while ago, but it is in German.

[AirCommando]

....At the end of the day, we´re not talking about regular Nato-Troops. Those lads were civilians, secret para-military organization founded with Nato-Support but I don´t think that there were many people within shape who knew much about the Gladio-Cells and at the end of the day, many of them pretty much did what they felt like.......probably even encouraged it.....
Good argument. I´m with you. But how many of this people went out of control? I think that basically a lot of this true and confirmed GLADIO people were just to old for playing bombers. If they were recruited for the GLADIO Stay Behind System in the late 50íes, being war veterans in their 30íes, they must be at least 50-60 years old in the late 70ies or 80ies when the big bombings hit Italy, Belgium and so on back at that time. The arrested people were much junger and not pretty "smart" at least. How about that?

....We know how big the fear of leftist governments during cold war was and there was little hesitation when it came to issues like supporting dangerous far right groops as long as they kept the commies from gaining influence.....Think of South America....
I´m with you again. But the GLADIO SBO were only a cup of people. Who are all the others? Just supporters and ultra right wing fellows claiming only to be GLADIATORI? There are too many people involved for a small and in the underground working NATO cell. At least SHAPE is a big Agency with a lot of people and nations involved and it´s very, very hard to keep this secret. Until now only some squaller claim to be GLADIO connected. In 50 years of GLADIO there´s no Officer from SHAPE claiming: "Yes, I was responsable!". How that works? At least a hundred or so people from SHAPE must be involved over the decades in this. In the NATO history we have high ranking officers confessing all and everthing (gay, ****, plot treason, backstabbing, illegal arms traffiking and all this ****) but there´s no old veteran general in his late 70ies admitting and reveal this small GLADIO stall? How that works?

[little icebear]

Once again I have to stress that I´m not a self-proclaimed Gladio-Expert, but as far as I got it from the documentaries I´ve seen and the articles I read, the ties of those cells to the NATO HQ largely had been as loose as it could get.
They acted quite independently and devoloped own structures which might have included recruitment as well. When it comes to right wing terrorism in Italy, it seems more likely that we have to speak about individual right wing terrorists affilliated with Gladio Members, instead of seeing Gladio itself as one Terrorist-Organization like a right-wing version of the Red Brigades.

I have to watch this swiss documentary once again... I´m getting curious again.

[AirCommando]

They acted quite independently and devoloped own structures which might have included recruitment as well. When it comes to right wing terrorism in Italy, it seems more likely that we have to speak about individual right wing terrorists affilliated with Gladio Members, instead of seeing Gladio itself as one Terrorist-Organization like a right-wing version of the Red Brigades.
You got it. That´s also my feeling about this issue.

[hank2222]

every military unit that was over there that was in some form of intelliegence work over there had a plan to deal with stay behinds and other groups that where going to fight the warsaw pack as it came over the border..
and oh YES ..there was allways some guys in a suits and tie and at these meetings and dealing with those typles where a major pain in the butt about things at times ..for we where never told who they where but we all knew for they where allways telling us to give them our conacts and anything else that they could steal from us ..for letting us do the work and there getting the credit for it..
for they where allways asking about things that you lined up with people and then trying to go in and pull them out for under you with offers of better money and other things to get them to do the work ..

dureing one meeting with them ..my co told them to get and work the area to get the conacts that they need and stop sitting on there butt and doing nothing but stealing from us the military groups that here working the areas..let say that did not go over well with them and a couple days later the mr w went to see the base commander over the problem and came back into the office laughing and we ask him what so funny and he told us that the base commander had said in the office to the suits ..the suits where not happy when they left the office..

we just learned to say that we have not made any friends over here outside the military ones..we had learn to not say anything about people or things that we have lined up..
for they where bad about comeing in and takeing over and pushing you out the door in that area

[Breerman]

I'll just divulge what I know.

In Sweden there also was a "Stay Behind" organization and it was formed around Swedish Waffen-SS Veterans.

[hank2222]

for those who was stationed in germany dureing the cold war ,,there where plans to take a dump plan ok..
now for a lot of people that where inside the those little groups of people working at staff headquaters in diff places a lot of times you had no idea what this person was working on in this part of the county .. for a lot of people planed for diff areas of the county that they where in
a lot of the older guys that i worked around then had been in germany off and on for years so had made friends over there outside the military and did in fact talk to them about things.what was life over on the other side when they went to see family members on the other side of the fence line...

but the time was you never trusted anyone outside your unit for it was just that way of thinking at the time..

everytime i took a trip over the fence to the other side i was allways debrief about what i saw and where we go and the routes that i took and the road conditions at the time..

the system for us was who what and where when we drove on the other side of the fence

who was following you..what group did the people belong to try to figure that one out

what where they driveing get the make and model of the car along with the lics plate if can

did they come to the car when stop at the diff places and try to look at the car or take pictures of you ..

did you leave the car alone when helping the ladies with the stuff there was a lot of question and answers session when i got back from the fence run at times....

where did they pick up and how was they dress etc etc etc..

cause of my age a lot of the older soldiers never really got the fact that i was beening allowed to roam around the areas at times over there with a lot of there side keeping a eye on me at times..

remember every guy in the military had a mustache at the time ,,me i was baby faced as heck and could not grow one worth a dam..let just say that i had peach fuzz and leave at that..

so i was clean shaved and look like a little teenage kid that found a uniform and put it on ..

my co used that to his advantage at times cause of my age and looks..

[AirCommando]

In Sweden there also was a "Stay Behind" organization and it was formed around Swedish Waffen-SS Veterans.

Correct and not surprising....

[abu]

@theholeinthedonut

what you saw, was indead part of a Stay-Behind manoeuver called Oesling84. The Oesling manoeuvers where the lux-belgo part of a Flintlock manoeuver involving the 10th SFG. During the 80s the 10th SFG assisted the B and LUX in training there STBH agents. The whole thing was covered by an official part which looked like a classic counter-infiltration manoeuver involving the B and LUX army.

[JJHH]

For the Dutchies around here, a very interesting 2005 report on the Dutch "stay behind" organization by the Dutch Ministry of General Affairs and D.O.D.

De Nederlandse stay behind - organisatie in de koude oorlog
http://www.minocw.nl/documenten/brief2k-2005-doc-34268a.pdf

[abu]

The 10th SFG together with some lux. guys during Oesling84

[AirCommando]

Question to the Luxy´s: Is the "Bombenleger-Affäre" part of the Sty-Behind-Terror calimed by D.Ganser?

[abu]

You have to imagine that Ganser wrote his book without making any interviews. The guy hasn't talked to any member of Gladio at all !!! All he did, was collecting information which was public. Regarding Luxembourg, he had 3-4 newspaper articles and one official document from the lux. parliament.
Concerning the Bommeleeer. Your question reminds me of the Lewinsky affaire, when Clinton was asked "did you have a ****** relationship with this women, he replied "depends on how you define a relationship."
;-)
So, it depends on how you define "Stay-Behind". If you consider the Stay Behind being only the very few agents recruted by the SREL to do information, infiltration and exfiltration missions. The clean stuff so speaking! The answer is no !
But if you take into acount the whole bunch of "unofficial" networks and the STBH-instructors which where let's say a little bit overmotivated, the answer is...

[AirCommando]

Any news in this sector?

[valtrex]

The clandestine NATO -stay-behind- operation in Greece was called "Red Fleece" and was under the supervision of the head of the Secret Service. The colonels who seized power in the coup d' etat of 1967 succeded because they followed the "Prometheus Plan" that had been previous drafted as a response for a hypothetical communist take over and was part of the Red Fleece. It was dismantled in 1984 by the then Socialist government.

[theholeinthedonut]

Any news in this sector?

You should have asked when you were on "Verluerekascht".

[AirCommando]

I was there once, but we met each other?

In the new SPEZIAL of K-ISOM is an article about the clandestine silenced G150 rifle from the swiss P26 SBO organisation. Basically is just a trigger with a supressor and a magazine with three shots. Very unusual.

[theholeinthedonut]

I was there once, but we met each other?

In the new SPEZIAL of K-ISOM is an article about the clandestine silenced G150 rifle from the swiss P26 SBO organisation. Basically is just a trigger with a supressor and a magazine with three shots. Very unusual.

I don't think we met.

[AirCommando]

Quote in German: "Im Rahmen der Reihe Geschichte am Mittwoch strahlte ARTE am 16. Februar 2011 die vom SWR produzierte Dokumentation Gladio – Geheimarmeen in Europa (Deutschland 2010, 85 Min.) aus. Die Autoren Frank Gutermuth und Wolfgang Schoen zeichnen die Entstehung von Gladio in Deutschland und Italien nach und beleuchten die Hintergründe des Anschlags von Bologna und des Oktoberfestattentats."

Anybody had the time to watch it? In my eyes it was not professional at all. Too much Oktoberfest-Paranoia and too much Italian communists bulls..t.

[RSone]

Regarding the Dutch stay-behind network: If you sift through the KRO site posted earlier, you'll see that the broadcaster unearthed various documents within the Ministries of Defense and General Affairs that revealed Operations and Intelligence(or O&I, the rather inoccuous name of the Dutch stay behind unit(s)) was still there in some form of the other as late as a period lasting at least from 1998-2002(a period that is referenced in the documents). According to offical sources, Dutch GLADIO should've already been disbanded 10 years prior to 2002. The documents pertain to a 'reactivation' of the units in case of a 'large scale conflict', to which end Defense and General Affairs had apparently made a number of financial and logistical preparations.

[G3SG1]

the clandestine silenced G150 rifle from the swiss P26 SBO organisation. Basically is just a trigger with a supressor and a magazine with three shots. Very unusual.

Do you have a pic?

[AirCommando]

No, but it´s in this magazine:

[Fisker]

Very interesting thread!

@ Aircommando: Do you know of any Danish stay-behind units, other than the regular Home Guard units, that were in part designed to let the front roll past them?

I know of some bunkers here and there in remote forests, with ammo dumps, that were constructed during the cold war, but as far as I've been told they were there for the regular Home Guard units.

[G3SG1]

No, but it´s in this magazine:

thank you vm

[Nasams]

Theres was a raid against a supposedly moonshine factory in norway in the early 90's, when the police entered they discovered around 100 ag3 rifles and a lot of communication equipment. It was later told to the public that this was one of the stay behind HQ's organized by the military.