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Lion of War
01-09-2008, 07:56 PM
http://youtube.com/v/9-LXAfmnakg

The Tarim mummies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies) suggest that precursors of these easternmost speakers of an Indo-European language may have lived in the region of the Tarim Basin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_Basin) from around 1800 BC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1800_BC) until finally they were assimilated by Uyghur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_people)Turks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples) in the 9th century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_century) AD.
There is evidence both from the mummies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummies) and Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China) writings that many of them had blonde (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blonde) or red hair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair) and blue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue) eyes, characteristics also found in central asia. This suggests the possibility that they were part of an early migration of speakers of Indo-European languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages) that ended in what is now the Tarim Basin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_Basin) in western China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China). According to a controversial theory, early invasions by Turkic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_languages) speakers may have pushed Tocharian speakers out of the Tarim Basin and into ancient Sogdian where they became assimilated in the population. A later group of Tocharians were the Kushans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushans) and maybe some iranian tribes of the Hephthalites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephthalites) whose iranian population also settled in modern Afghanistan, North-Eastern Iran Usbekistan, Tajikistan and Turkestan while the nomadic turkish ones where defeated by Bahram Gur and the Gok-Turks who pushed them over the Hindukush mountains to Sindh (Pakistan) and North-West India.
The Tarim Basin mummies (1800 BC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1800_BC)) and the Tocharian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharian_languages) texts and frescoes from the Tarim Basin (AD 800 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/800)) have been found in the same general geographical area, and are both connected to an Indo-European origin. The faces on these frescos were usually vandalized by Muslim iconoclasts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclasm) since the Middle Ages. The mummies and the frescoes both point to White (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_%28people%29) types with light eyes and hair color. There is no evidence that directly connects them however, as no texts were recovered from the grave sites.

Mallory & Mair (2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharians#CITEREFMalloryMair2000):294–296, 314–318) argue that the Tocharian languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharian_languages) were introduced to the Tarim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim) and Turpan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turpan) basins from the Afanasevo culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afanasevo_culture) to their immediate north. The Afanasevo culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afanasevo_culture) (c. 3500–2500 BC) displays cultural and genetic connections with the Indo-European-associated cultures of the European steppe yet predates the specifically Indo-Iranian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranians)-associated Andronovo culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture) (c. 2000–900 BC) enough to isolate the Tocharian languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharian_languages) from Indo-Iranian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranian_languages) linguistic innovations like satemization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satemization).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharians

ed316
01-09-2008, 08:12 PM
http://youtube.com/v/9-LXAfmnakg

The Tarim mummies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies) suggest that precursors of these easternmost speakers of an Indo-European language may have lived in the region of the Tarim Basin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_Basin) from around 1800 BC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1800_BC) until finally they were assimilated by Uyghur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_people)Turks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_peoples) in the 9th century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_century) AD.
There is evidence both from the mummies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummies) and Chinese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China) writings that many of them had blonde (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blonde) or red hair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair) and blue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue) eyes, characteristics also found in central asia. This suggests the possibility that they were part of an early migration of speakers of Indo-European languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages) that ended in what is now the Tarim Basin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_Basin) in western China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China). According to a controversial theory, early invasions by Turkic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_languages) speakers may have pushed Tocharian speakers out of the Tarim Basin and into ancient Sogdian where they became assimilated in the population. A later group of Tocharians were the Kushans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushans) and maybe some iranian tribes of the Hephthalites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephthalites) whose iranian population also settled in modern Afghanistan, North-Eastern Iran Usbekistan, Tajikistan and Turkestan while the nomadic turkish ones where defeated by Bahram Gur and the Gok-Turks who pushed them over the Hindukush mountains to Sindh (Pakistan) and North-West India.
The Tarim Basin mummies (1800 BC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1800_BC)) and the Tocharian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharian_languages) texts and frescoes from the Tarim Basin (AD 800 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/800)) have been found in the same general geographical area, and are both connected to an Indo-European origin. The faces on these frescos were usually vandalized by Muslim iconoclasts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iconoclasm) since the Middle Ages. The mummies and the frescoes both point to White (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_%28people%29) types with light eyes and hair color. There is no evidence that directly connects them however, as no texts were recovered from the grave sites.

Mallory & Mair (2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharians#CITEREFMalloryMair2000):294–296, 314–318) argue that the Tocharian languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharian_languages) were introduced to the Tarim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim) and Turpan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turpan) basins from the Afanasevo culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afanasevo_culture) to their immediate north. The Afanasevo culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afanasevo_culture) (c. 3500–2500 BC) displays cultural and genetic connections with the Indo-European-associated cultures of the European steppe yet predates the specifically Indo-Iranian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranians)-associated Andronovo culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture) (c. 2000–900 BC) enough to isolate the Tocharian languages (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharian_languages) from Indo-Iranian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranian_languages) linguistic innovations like satemization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satemization).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharians


I saw this on TV. Bearer? Hardly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_civilization


These nomads did not spring the Chinese civilization. Just nothing more than wishful thinking.

Lion of War
01-09-2008, 08:13 PM
I saw this on TV. Bearer? Hardly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_civilization


These nomads did not spring the Chinese civilization. Just nothing more than wishful thinking.

Was it any good.I just sumbled on it.Kind of shocked actually.

ed316
01-09-2008, 08:18 PM
Was it any good.I just sumbled on it.Kind of shocked actually.


Very interesting. They were saying how these nomadic people from the Caucause steppes had contact with the Chinese and started to inter-marry with the Chinese and trade.

Ordie
01-10-2008, 01:55 AM
The mummys found at Lop Nur caused a controversy with the Chinese Government a while back. The ethnic origins of the mummies were called into question as it challenged the Han Chinese historical claims in regards to Xinxiang provence (Eastern Turkishstan).

However, the mummies are considered as 'heros' for the local Uighurs and Kazaks.

Ironically, Lop Nur also happens to be the site for China's nuclear weapons testing and source of radioactive dust being blown over the Tienshan Mtns. into Kyghizstan.

Lion of War
01-10-2008, 10:03 AM
The uighars and Tajiks of China are believed to be related or atleast mixed with the Tocharians.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/44/Tashkorgan_Tajik.jpg

http://www.global12project.com/2004/profiles/images2/0410.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/tajikland/Khojand/A-Tajik-beauty.jpg

socom6
01-10-2008, 02:05 PM
Ughh I think the Chinese developed their civilization on their own.

Ordie
01-10-2008, 02:59 PM
Ughh I think the Chinese developed their civilization on their own.

Civilizations develop when individuals decide to acculturate themselves into that civilization, regardless of ethnicity or language. Over time they will identify themselves as part of that civilization.

For example, the Byzantines (Greek in language, more Slavic towards the end) viewed themselves as Romans.

zg18
01-10-2008, 04:31 PM
Civilizations develop when individuals decide to acculturate themselves into that civilization, regardless of ethnicity or language. Over time they will identify themselves as part of that civilization.

For example, the Byzantines (Greek in language, more Slavic towards the end) viewed themselves as Romans.

They were Romans,Greek language was adopted in 7th century by emperor Heraclius instead of Latin,people in Constantinopol were coming from all sides of Roman empire,eventualy Greek culture and language becomed dominant overtime.